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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
U.S. Navy Secretary Ousted, Told to Resign or be Fired; Trump Says, There is No Timeframe on Iran War; Trump Baselessly Calls Virginia Elections Rigged After Democrats Win. Trump Announces Bailout for Spirit Airlines; Some MAGA Republicans Question Trump's Assassination Attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 22, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, riding the wave or lost at sea. Pete Hegseth keeps replacing his military leadership in the middle of the war.
Plus, the president baselessly declares Virginia's elections rigged as some Republicans are furious that he started the map battle in the first place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought Texas was a bad idea. California's a bad idea. It's just a race to the bottom.
PHILLIP: Also, the conspiracy theory monster that Trump bred and fed may be coming back to bite him, from Israel to Butler.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think maybe it was staged.
PHILLIP: And Donald Trump the socialist, the U.S. government is on the verge of another bailout and another nationalizing of a private company.
Live at the table, Keith Boykin, Emily Austin, Shermichael Singleton, Xochitl Hinojosa and Geraldo Rivera.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Tonight, a U.S. military shakeup in the middle of a war. The Pentagon announcing that the Navy secretary, John Phelan, is out immediately. Sources say that Pete Hegseth told him to resign or be fired.
Phelan is a businessman with no prior military experience and he fundraised millions of dollars for the Trump campaign. Trump announced his nomination for the Navy post just weeks after he won the 2024 election. And sources tell CNN that there was tension for months between Phelan and Hegseth who believed that Phelan was moving too slowly on implementing shipbuilding reforms and that his direct communication with Trump bothered Hegseth, who viewed that as an attempt to bypass him.
Phelan is just the latest departure at the Pentagon. Hegseth has pushed out dozens of senior military officials since becoming defense secretary. And remember, the U.S. is in the middle of enforcing a blockade in the war against Iran.
Just even putting aside the reasons for his dismissal, the sheer number of people that Hegseth has dismissed in a year and the fact that it is happening while we are literally in the middle of a war in which the Navy is a key part of it, what does that tell you, Geraldo?
GERALDO RIVERA, PEABODY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST: 15 major warships at sea right now in the theater. You know, I don't know Phelan very well. I don't know him at all. Just he is a rich guy, Palm Beach, you know, Aspen billionaire, everything that Pete Hegseth is not. You know, I know Pete pretty well, secretary of war, secretary of defense, or whatever you style it. And I think that the one thing you don't do is go around the chain of command. You know, Pete's in charge of the sky. He has the ear of the president. So, he goes to Trump and say, tattles on the secretary of war.
I think that it sounds like kid stuff, but it just seems like this guy, you know, it's interesting, he's not a warrior. He's a billionaire. He is, you know, a schmoozer.
PHILLIP: I mean, there's Phelan, but the common denominator in all of this is Pete Hegseth. Because he's fired war fighters, he's fired this guy who's a businessman, he's fired people who have great sterling reputations, he's fired people who have, in his view, ties to the Biden administration. It doesn't really matter what the person is doing or who they are. The one person that underlies this whole thing is Pete Hegseth, the man who, by the way, he squeaked into that job. Let's not forget that he was a very tough sell to a Republican Senate for a number of reasons.
KEITH BOYKIN, Yes. And then as soon as he came into office, he got involved in that controversy about Signal chat, Signal gate, sending out secret war messages on Signal. And I think that, you know, any other administration Pete Hegseth would be skating on thin ice, especially in the middle of the war because all the chaos that's happening.
[22:05:00]
But in this administration, Trump doesn't seem to mind the chaos. I think it's actually not so much a reflection of Pete Hegseth, as much as a reflection of Donald Trump.
EMILY AUSTIN, HOST, THE EMILY AUSTIN SHOW: I actually counter that. I think it's preventing the chaos. I don't look at that as a bad thing, especially in a time of war. I'd rather people get fired than have too many cooks in the kitchen and have interpersonal drama going on. I don't want Pete Hegseth having bad chemistry with anything.
And, obviously, I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but there's no lack of military talent. Just because they may have been great in war doesn't mean that there's good chemistry. Comparing it to sports a little bit, you can have three stars on an NBA team and they don't even make it to the playoffs.
I think it's most importantly during a war especially, to just have people on the same page, and if they're misaligned, Abby, I'd rather them be out than having child business during a war with Iran.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. The whole reason why you put different people at a table that disagree is because you want them to make the best decision for the United States. And I think having the Department of War and chaos within the Department of War and key firings, and then also within your cabinet, and it's not just any cabinet officials, it is key national security officials.
I didn't agree with Pam Bondi, but not having a steady attorney general or, you know, having a firing of a DHS secretary did not agree with both of those confirmations. But when you have the these key people within the Department of Defense and within your cabinet and a shift during a war, that should give everybody some pause.
What I will say is that this does cause chaos. And I have no doubt that when Democrats are in power in November that you will see a lot of oversight when it comes to this war and the Department of Defense and the firings and the running of this administration. There has been no accountability but I have --
(CROSSTALKS)
HINOJOSA: I mean, I actually hate hope.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We're not predicting that.
HINOJOSA: We don't know when this war will end. There has not been any sort of --
RIVERA: The president has shaped (ph) in Pete though, the secretary --
HINOJOSA: I don't think the American people have faith in the president. And I think that is a bigger problem when it --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: So, to Xochitl point, Trump in lifting the -- continuing the ceasefire, I should say, also has said, according to the White House now, there's no timeline for resuming hostilities or definitively ending the war or getting back to the negotiating table. We are in a stalemate right now.
SINGLETON: Yes, we are. But just on the point of Pete Hegseth, I mean, this is a managerial thing, an employee issue. I think when you appoint people to sort of oversee large organizations being the president, that is, you want to make sure that those people are surrounded by individuals that they can work with. I think that's really important.
Now, I certainly understand --
PHILLIP: I'm curious, you're a business guy.
SINGLETON: I am. I have a lot of employees that work with my company.
PHILLIP: So, if you had if you had a subordinate who fired 30- something of their subordinates in a year, would you say then, oh, this is -- this guy is just a great leader, he's doing a great job, or would you say, what's going on in this organization?
SINGLETON: I'd have a couple of questions. I'd want to know, why are you firing them? Are you replacing them with more competent, talented individuals? And if both of those questions are no, then I probably get rid of that person, just to be quite frank, as someone who owns a company.
But that said, though, I want to give some leeway here. I can understand how someone who's running something would want to have change. Now, the question becomes, is it the right time for change? Sure, that's a fair question, we're in the midst of a war. But also I would counter that by saying, do you want the secretary of war having a secondary person in command that he's not in agreement with on anything while trying to move forward with strategy in the midst of a war? I think that's also something that has to be assessed here.
BOYKIN: But even before the war, there was chaos in the Defense Department, the War Department he wants to call it, which is not. He went to the generals and lectured them about how he wanted them to be a fighting machine.
Here he is, a guy who's a former Fox News analyst who's --
RIVERA: That should be treading down --
BOYKIN: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Geraldo. But he is a former Fox News weekend host, and he's lecturing generals about how they need to be tougher.
AUSTIN: He's a veteran. He won two Bronze Stars.
BOYKIN: And I just think that the tone is just offensive to people, to service members who spent their lives, dedicated their careers to serving this country and then have this guy come out of --
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: That's logically an emotional appeal argument. I'm making a very --
BOYKIN: I'm telling you. I'm just telling how people -- SINGLETON: Well, people can feel however they want, I'm making a different assessment here though about managerial style and him having the right and authority to replace people.
Now, we can disagree on if this is the right moment to replace said people or said people being replaced by more capable people, but that's a fair critique. But I don't think you won't critique his ability to remove people.
RIVERA: (INAUDIBLE) behind your back. Excuse me, I didn't mean to interrupt. But what your key people went behind your back?
SINGLETON: I would fire them, yes. I would fire them. I would absolutely fire them.
PHILLIP: I mean, in Trump world, that is not an unusual thing. I mean, Trump has probably had a relationship with John Phelan longer than he's known Pete Hegseth and recently praised Phelan, you know, as a businessman who's --
[22:10:06]
SINGLETON: He's a very accomplished businessman.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Which Trump very much to -- I think it was your point. I mean, Trump's style is that he likes people around him who do have different points of view and he likes to hear from them directly.
So, this is a little bit --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, look, I'm not defending his credentials for the job. I'm just telling you what Trump likes, which is to hear from people directly.
I do think, though, you know, Pete Hegseth's background is relevant here. Because, again, if you remember, in addition to what you pointed out about him being a war fighter, I think that's important, but he also ran a veteran's nonprofit. And part of the issue in his confirmation hearing was that he allegedly ran that nonprofit into the ground. And so when it comes to managerial experience, that's the background here, not just what he's doing at the Pentagon but his long history of management or mismanagement, as it might be.
AUSTIN: Well, yes. These allegations are honestly -- like we don't really know much about it, but I think it's very disrespectful to limit Pete Hegseth as someone who was only a Fox News anchor that was miraculously tapped into his role. I feel like that's just disrespectful.
You talked about the service members who feel disrespectful. He served. Two tours in the Middle East. He put his boots on the ground. So, if there's someone who understand what it's like to serve this country, if anything, it's Pete Hegseth.
BOYKIN: I'll telling you what Donald Trump said. Donald Trump said he was picking his cabinet members because they looked like they were out of central casting. That's not how you pick a cabinet. You pick people because they were qualified. And especially for a guy who came in office complaining about diversity, equity, and inclusion, how that was lowering standards, he has lowered the standard.
AUSTIN: It is. It absolutely is.
BOYKIN: That's a lie. But he is lowering -- no, we're not going to go there tonight. We're not going to go there tonight. But he has --
AUSTIN: But if someone's hired on DEI, you're actually insulting them that they don't have enough --
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: Keith, I would just say though -- Keith, I take your points, and I've heard this a lot from people on the side, and it's fair to (INAUDIBLE) if that's your belief.
That said, though, I think you can make all of your critiques without diminishing his role. And I know that's not your intent. I do. I've known you a long time. I don't think you're purposefully saying that. But I think you can make those points where, hey, I don't think this guy's qualified because he was only, what, a major, I believe, in the military, has rink wasn't high. That's fair, if that is your belief, but I don't think you have to relegate him to just merely being a Fox News host.
BOYKIN: I didn't say he was merely a Fox News host. I said Donald Trump chose people not based on the people who were most qualified, but based on the people he thought were most likely to --
(CROSSTALKS)
BOYKIN: And that's irresponsible. You guys just laugh it off.
HINOJOSA: It's no secret that he almost didn't get confirmed. It is no secret that he has mishandled classified information. It is no secret that there are time and time again that he has misstepped at the Department of Defense. And so just say it clearly, be here at this table and say that he has been this amazing defense secretary, no one is buying it. And to be honest with you, I don't think Donald Trump is buying it. I think the only reason he's been able to save his job is because he's given speeches, like he has given, he continues to go on television and is very good on television.
RIVERA: I don't know how you -- how do you make --
PHILLIP: Last word to Geraldo. Go ahead.
RIVERA: How do you make the assumption that he is, you know, bad for the job? He has brought -- wait a second. I'm not a huge fan of Pete's. I like the guy personally. I know him at Fox. I think he's a patriot. I also think he's deeply experienced in many other ways, aside from the fact that he was a major, but he has brought a certain spirit back to a military aspect, to our military that had been lost its way.
HINOJOSA: How did it lose its way?
(CROSSTALKS)
HINOJOSA: You're talking about a macho --
PHILLIP: They did do pushups.
HINOJOSA: Yes. You're talking about a macho, so like thumping of -- you know, chest thumping sort of military.
(CROSSTALKS)
HINOJOSA: I would prefer to have --
RIVERA: The military members I know, the morale is excellent as compared to the morale during the Biden administration, for example. I'm just making --
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: And that shouldn't be (INAUDIBLE). No, it started to move in that direction, sure.
PHILLIP: Recruitment was up.
SINGLETON: Just sure, go ahead.
PHILLIP: Point of fact, recruitment was up under Biden as well, and it is up under Trump, so, yes.
SINGLETON: So, significantly more though is my point.
PHILLIP: But, look, I mean, I think Geraldo's point is that there's been a change of tone. Part of the change of tone is also a big thing for Pete Hegseth is no more silly rules of engagement. We're going to change the accountability structure for complaints against service members and their -- and misconduct. That's part of the picture too. So, it's not just more pushups.
HINOJOSA: It's also blowing things up and going to war.
[22:15:01]
He named it the Department of War. He's the Secretary of War.
SINGLETON: He doesn't make those decisions.
HINOJOSA: But he advises the president and he clearly has an agenda of wanting to go to war. And I'm sorry, but the Republican base also does not agree with that. You have seen MAGA come out and speak out, that is not what they want. RIVERA: Bring this back to where Abby started talking about the resignation of the secretary of the Navy. And there's no doubt that that resignation by fail and he had no experience in that job. And, you know, the fact that he was a financier and brilliant in finance doesn't make him a good secretary of the Navy. Has he been on a warship before?
You know, I think that, in fairness, when you know the Trump social scene and know how people have access, direct access to the commander- in-chief at times, and it would seem inappropriate or certainly unprecedented when compared to past administrations. But it just seems to me that when you tattle out of school --
HINOJOSA: I just don't understand why they picked him if he was not qualified for the job.
PHILLIP: We have to leave there.
Next for us, after Democrats hit back and won a vote to redraw the map in Virginia, the president now says that it's rigged.
Plus, some conservatives are calling Trump a socialist tonight. Why the government may be directly involved in your next flight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Another legal hurdle tonight after Virginia voters approved a Congressional map that gives Democrats the edge in the upcoming midterm elections. A judge just blocked the state from certifying last night's redistricting results. He cited multiple reasons, including what he calls misleading language on the ballot, and that the legislature did not follow its own rules for passing the referendum.
The Virginia Supreme Court though will ultimately decide the issue in the coming weeks. In the meantime, President Trump and MAGA are melting down. Trump baselessly claimed that the election was rigged and blamed mail-in ballots while Steve Bannon had this warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: You think we're playing by conventional rules. You think Donald Trump's in the White House because he's a conventional politician? Your conventional politician is Glenn Youngkin. And look what he's done. Defeat after defeat. Now it's a crushing -- now he turned over the whole freaking state to him. It'll take us a decade to dig out of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERA: Talk about secretary of war, that guy scares me.
AUSTIN: Yes. I don't have respect for anyone that sat there and defended Jeffrey Epstein, so I'm just going to leave that there. PHILLIP: Sure. Well, here's an alternative viewpoint. Ari Fleischer, who's usually pretty friendly to Trump and very friendly to Republicans, says, I should also point out that the GOP will now lose net seats across the country. If you're going to pick a fight, at least win it. The other side will always fight back. All of this was foreseeable and avoidable. We should not have started this fight.
Shermichael, you're a Virginian.
SINGLETON: Yes. I mean, look, it's kind of unfortunate. I mean, history is on the side of Democrats. We already know that. The party of the president typically loses seats in the House. You look at the president's approval ratings mathematically, that also has implications in terms of what that net loss could be.
So, the question, if you're a strategist on the Republican side, is how do you diminish what those losses potentially are? And the gerrymandering, which is pretty unprecedented, makes it really, really difficult to factor in multiple variables to see, well, will Dems have a 25-seat, 30-seat loss or will it be slightly less? I think it may be slightly less. You still have the Supreme Court and their ruling coming soon on Section 2 of the voting rights. That could have serious implications, particularly in a lot of southern states.
So, I don't really know how this is going to play out.
PHILLIP: But should they have done it is the question.
SINGLETON: No, I don't think so. I think reducing the incentive to compromise is just not good for the country. No one wins here in the long run, neither side.
PHILLIP: Yes. Go ahead.
AUSTIN: No. I just feel like they took one of the most balanced places in the country and they just totally disenfranchised Republicans. So, you know, I personally -- what? Do you disagree?
BOYKIN: You're talking about Virginia?
AUSTIN: Yes, it's a perfect state.
BOYKIN: But what about Texas and --
AUSTIN: I don't agree with that either. Shermichael and I were discussing the agreement --
(CROSSTALKS)
HINOJOSA: Can I ask a question? When Texas was happening, you were not hearing Republicans say that this was a problem for our democracy, that this was --
AUSTIN: I agree with you.
HINOJOSA: And I think that -- and Republicans didn't stand up to Donald Trump either. And Republicans in Texas and across the country had the opportunity to say no to Donald Trump, but for some reason, they do not have a spine to stick up to him and nobody wanted to tell him no.
And now we're in the situation where, I agree with you, we shouldn't be doing this anywhere, but Donald Trump put us in this position, and it frankly is because no one would tell him no. And now Republicans are saying, oh, but our democracy.
SINGLETON: But, Xochitl, I think the issue with Virginia though, after Texas, California passed their referendum and it pretty much equaled everything out. I think the issue here with Virginia is that they're only leaving one Republican Congressional district.
Now, of the five districts that Texas will get, they're not Republicans. The idea is win all five of them. Hell, we'll be lucky if we win two out of the five, more than likely Democrats will win three because they're mostly in Hispanic areas. So, this is backfiring in terms of expectations.
PHILLIP: Two parts of that are important. One, it's not just California and Texas evening themselves out.
SINGLETON: That's true, but many have declined there.
PHILLIP: There are -- yes, many have declined, but other states are actively moving to give Republicans an advantage.
So, now with Virginia, we're actually in a more even place where the advantage is probably neutralized. But here's what --
SINGLETON: Well Dems will have about a nine-seat advantage though, Abby.
PHILLIP: No.
[22:25:00]
According to a lot of the people who look very closely at all these different districts, when you add up all the Republican changes and all the Democratic changes, now we're virtually at net zero in terms of partisan advantage at the district level. But that's not including your other point, which is that some of these districts are not as competitive or as non-competitive as Republicans would like.
And Hakeem Jeffries, the speaker or the -- excuse me, the Democratic leader he issued a warning to Florida, specifically to Ron DeSantis. And here's Jefferies and DeSantis responding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Our message to Florida Republicans is F around and find out.
The Republicans are dummymandering their way into the minority before a single vote cast because they started this war, and we're going to finish it.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Please be my guest. I will pay for you to come down to Florida and campaign. I'll put you up in the Florida governor's mansion. We'll take you fishing. We'll do all this stuff. There's nothing that could be better for Republicans in Florida than to see Jeffries Hakeem Jeffries everywhere around this state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Not going to be everywhere though, because here's -- Jeffries is talking about Mario Diaz-Balart, Maria Elvira Salazar, Carlos Gimenez, Kat Cammack. These are Republicans who are -- some of them in Southern Florida districts that are endangered now. It is going to be a tricky landscape in some parts of Florida.
BOYKIN: It is in a few places. And Jefferies is smart. He knows the districts. He's not going to just go insert himself in places where he doesn't need to be. And, frankly, this whole debate is really stupid between Jefferies and DeSantis, but the true problem here is that we didn't get to this before is that the Democrats in California and in Virginia put the question to the voters. And they didn't do that in Texas. They're not planning on doing that in Florida. They didn't do that in Missouri or Ohio either. Republicans decided we want to change the rules --
SINGLETON: The net result is the same though, Keith.
BOYKIN: But Republicans decided that they didn't believe in the voters. They chose to make a decision to --
SINGLETON: You're making a process argument, a process argument.
BOYKIN: Listen to what I have to say.
SINGLETON: Okay.
BOYKIN: Your party, people in your party, governors, chose to ignore the will of the voters because Donald Trump told them to do so. The Democrats at least trusted the voters enough to go to them in California and in Virginia and say, please tell us do you support this or not?
SINGLETON: Keith, okay, but it is about process. One, it is about process. Let's let not be intellectually lazy here. It is about process. And then, number two, the net result is the same damn thing, Keith.
BOYKIN: You just said a moment --
SINGLETON: It's the same thing. You're making an emotional argument over the same thing, man.
BOYKIN: The only thing (INAUDIBLE) being emotional is because you disagree with everything I say.
SINGLETON: No, it's not that I disagree with what you're saying, and that result is the same.
RIVERA: Did anyone notice how narrow this argument was.
SINGLETON: It's not good if it's coming from your side or my side. It is the same.
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Geraldo, with your point.
RIVERA: Did anyone notice how Spanberger barely eked out this victory in Virginia? When everyone was -- it should have been double digits, to, what was it, 3 percent?
PHILLIP: Should it have been double budgets?
BOYKIN: It was close.
GERALDO: The way they were talking about it, it was going to be a nine to one --
PHILLIP: But I do think that this is the point that people like Ari Fleischer and Erick Erickson are making is that the downside of a strategy like this, it that was started by Republicans and continued by Democrats, is that it doesn't matter how squeaky the win was. A win is a win. And power is power. And that's what's going to dominate in our politics now. And that's going to lead us down potentially --
AUSTIN: I agree, Abby. I think this is a bipartisan issue. I think that's something we can all agree on. What I just dislike is that the Democrats are acting like they're so self-righteous when it comes to gerrymandering, when both sides are doing it, both sides, we need to intervene because, like you just said, this is going to end up very, very ugly if this is a war that both sides are trying to win against one another at the expense of the voters. We are the losers in the end.
HINOJOSA: Yes. And to add to -- we're all talking about how the voters should decide, et cetera. The only reason why we're in this in the first place is because Donald Trump did not think that we were going to win the midterm elections. He did not want the voters to have their say in the midterm elections.
What he wanted was to add seats so that he could -- and Republicans could benefit from the midterm so he wouldn't have accountability. And that is a problem, and that's a conversation that we should be having because presidents moving forward are going to feel like they can do the exact same thing that Donald Trump did and set us off into a war in the midterm before a census. And I think you're going to, he has set a terrible precedent for our country moving forward.
AUSTIN: Wow, hot take.
PHILLIP: It is a hot take.
All right, next for us, the president is on the verge of giving Spirit Airlines a $500 million bailout, and many conservatives are ripping the idea tonight, calling Trump a socialist. We'll discuss.
[22:30:06]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, the Trump administration is expected to announce another corporate bailout, this time $500 million for Spirit Airlines. Spirit would become, that would avoid becoming, the first significant U.S. airline in 25 years to completely halt operations because of financial problems.
[22:35:01]
And the deal is expected to include the federal government taking a stake in the troubled airline. But some conservatives are bashing the move.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERICK ERICKSON, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: I can make jokes about Spirit's image and the people who fly on Spirit and it's the Greyhound and it's the green chat bubble of the sky and things like that, but Spirit did bring those things on itself with its reputation. Feel bad for the pilots and the flight attendants and the workers at Spirit, but I feel real bad for the American taxpayers if the President of the United States decides that it is going to bail out Spirit Airlines.
That will just create more moral hazard and will incentivize other companies taking bold risks they should not take, thinking the government's going to bail them out too. It breeds inefficiencies, it wastes taxpayer dollars, we should allow the free market to work. The President of the United States has got to stop spreading socialism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, he's not saying that just because of this, because there's a long history. Last year, the government took a 10 percent stake in Intel and then took a stake in a bunch of other companies. You see them there from mineral companies to steel.
EMILY AUSTIN, HOST, "THE EMILY AUSTIN SHOW": I'm glad you mentioned that.
PHILLIP: Okay, look, the government bailing out private companies, taking stakes in them, that is the very thing that Republicans claim the socialists want.
AUSTIN: Right, I mean, I guess it's also the framing. Like, I'm glad you specifically mentioned the minerals because it was so important that we did get a stake in minerals when China was quite literally dominating that, whether it was the microchips, whether it's the pharmaceuticals, whether it's the military technology we need with these minerals that we've been getting now.
I just think, first of all, socialism is obviously a stretch. We all audibly laughed when he said that. Second of all, when it comes to Spirit, I wouldn't view this as governmental.
Yes, because I don't feel like Spirit Airlines is a government takeover, rather damage control. They've been suffering for years. Biden banned the acquisition of JetBlue.
And secondly, I mean, call it breaking news, a White House communication source told me they are not investing or buying Spirit Airlines. So we could put the socialism rumors to shame.
PHILLIP: I don't know what this White House source is telling you, but the President said on Tuesday that they are looking at bailing out Spirit. Sure, but that's why we're talking about this, because he said it on television. And again, a bailout, which would involve the United States government backing a private company in exchange for some kind of financial benefit, is something that we've done before, but it's been very controversial.
And Ted Cruz says "This is an absolutely terrible idea. The TARP corporate bailouts were a huge mistake, and the government doesn't know a damn thing about running a failed budget airline that the Biden administration killed," he adds.
Tom Cotton says, "If Spirit's creditors or other potential investors don't think they can run it profitably coming out of its second bankruptcy in two years, I doubt the government can either. Not the best use of taxpayer dollars."
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER DOJ PUBLIC AFFAIRS DIRECTOR, AND FORMER DNC SPOKESWOMAN: Don't get me wrong, I would dismiss this.
GERALDO RIVERA, PEABODY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST: But wasn't it a Democratic judge that stopped Spirit from merging with JetBlue? And isn't JetBlue a much better airline?
PHILLIP: Correct.
RIVERA: And shouldn't they have been allowed, and JetBlue would have taken Spirit and taken that ugly yellow paint job off?
PHILLIP: I mean, you could argue about whether the merger should or should not have happened, but I also think that anti-competitive mergers is also part of a capitalist system. It's not just like, do anything. Competition is a critical part of capitalism, so you also have to have that component as well.
HINOJOSA: Yes, and that's right. And I think that I'm sure that the Trump's Justice Department would have taken the same position as the last Justice Department did on Spirit Airlines.
The interesting part about this is like, listen, the Iran War raised fuel prices for jets. And it did, at the end of the day.
AUSTIN: That's why Spirit's failing, not because they're the worst airline ever.
HINOJOSA: You don't think for an already very troubled airline that that's not going to put them over the top?
PHILLIP: There are two ways of looking at this, but I mean, Xochitl is partly right.
According to Reuters, a sharp rise in jet fuel prices undermine key assumptions behind Spirit's restructuring. J.P. Morgan estimates that if fuel stays near the current elevated levels, Spirit's forecasted in 2026, and their operating margin could deteriorate to about negative 20 percent, they would add $360 million in costs. That's more than their unrestricted cash.
However, Spirit's competitor, United Airlines, basically says the idea of a bailout is bad for business, right? It says well-run airlines are still solidly profitable, even in this environment, as you can see from United.
United is raising prices because they can. So Xochitl's not wrong that the fuel prices are having an impact, but good airlines are raising their prices.
[22:40:07]
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, AND REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Airlines that have made good business decisions in terms of making sure there's capital set aside, capital reserves, making sure that they have competitive prices, and also that they're offering things that the consumer--
I do not agree with the President on this at all.
I'm an old school Adam Smith, Roger Scruton, conservative. This is not the role of government, by any stretch of the imagination. Spirit Airlines is a terrible airline.
Now look, I understand the idea of trying to offer something that's affordable for a lot of people who can't afford to fly. I think it's a noble idea, but it's not a sound business idea. And so they're failing because of the marketplace, and we should allow them to fail.
KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE, AND AUTHOR, "WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE ABOUT RACE?": I actually agree with that, too, because this bailout is different from the previous bailouts we had. The airline industry was bailed out in 2001 because of the whole 9/11 crisis. The auto industry was bailed out in 2008-2009 because of the financial crisis.
This is not an industry-wide bailout. This is one airline that's made some bad decisions, and the government doesn't have any responsibility to step in. But here's the problem.
You said before it's not going to happen because somebody from the White House told you it wasn't. You don't know that, because Donald Trump disputed it.
PHILLIP: I just want to be clear, but you wrote that they're not buying Spirit. Nobody reported that they were buying Spirit. AUSTIN: Or bailing them.
BOYKIN: But Donald Trump just disagreed with his own transportation secretary, Sean Duffy.
Sean Duffy says it's a bad idea. Donald Trump says it's a good idea. But the reason why I think Donald Trump wants to do it is because he doesn't want 14,000 people to lose their jobs because of an airline- related industry issue that might be caused by his war right going into the midterm elections.
Donald Trump is afraid of the political consequences.
HINOJOSA: Trump broke it. Now he needs to fix it.
AUSTIN: Trump broke Spirit Airlines?
HINOJOSA: I'm saying that because it took him over the top with fuel prices and the war. And I do believe if an airline goes down when fuel prices are this high, yes, the administration will get the blame because of the war.
RIVERA: I think we should all fly Spirit Airlines just to take one for the team.
PHILLIP: We're going to leave it there. The President is no stranger to conspiracy theories, but could the monster that he has been feeding for years come back to haunt him? We'll debate that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Is the conspiracy theory monster that President Trump fed coming back to bite him?
Trump has spent years floating all kinds of wild theories, like the Obama birther claims or the stolen 2020 election claims, and now a growing number of the President's once loudest cheerleaders have developed anti-Trump theories of their own. One that's recently gained steam is whether the 2024 assassination attempt on Trump's life in Butler, Pennsylvania was even real.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM DILLON, CONSERVATIVE PODCAST HOST: I don't care if he staged the assassination attempt at Butler. I don't care.
I don't care and I think he should admit it.
I think he should admit it. I should change the subject, stop talking about Iran, just admit you staged it in Butler.
It was the heat of the campaign. People do crazy things in campaigns. (END VIDEO CLIP)
AUSTIN: Wow.
PHILLIP: You know, there was quite a reaction at the table when that clip was played.
RIVERA: I had a nightmare sitting next to that guy at Spirit Airlines.
PHILLIP: Tim Dillon is a little bit.
RIVERA: I'm not familiar with him.
PHILLIP: He's a little bit of a wild card.
AUSTIN: Shermichael, I will tell you about Tim Dillon. Shall I? Do I have the honor?
He's supposed to be a comedian. He's supposed to be funny, except lately he's pulling a Theo Vaughn and he suddenly has declared himself a voice of politics, but I just don't think you tune into Tim Dillon. You don't come to him for information.
I'm not saying he has a low intelligence audience, but he's a low information audience.
HINOJOSA: That's a key question.
BOYKIN: That's Trump's base.
PHILLIP: All these people who you're saying don't come to Tim Dillon for information. Well, they did in the last election, just like they went to people like Joe Rogan and others, but it's not just him.
Okay, Marjorie Taylor Greene says this. "I'm not calling the Butler assassination a hoax, but there are a lot of questions that deserve public answers. Why the cover-up?"
She's asking why the Trump administration won't release information about the shooter.
SINGLETON: I can't believe this is even real. I'm sorry, Keith, go ahead.
BOYKIN: But this to me is like the Epstein Files. And the Epstein Files is a more serious issue, I think, because the Epstein Files, the Trump team fed and fueled the fire about these conspiracy theories that somehow there was this big cabal of people who were hiding information about Jeffrey Epstein.
Meanwhile, he gets in office, promises he can't deliver, and now we're at the position where those people are coming back and those promises he made are haunting him because he can't deliver. We're seeing the same thing with the Butler assassination story, and we're seeing with other issues, because Trump started his campaign, as you mentioned, Abby, with the five-and-a-half-year lie about Barack Obama's birth certificate. He's been fueling campaign conspiracy theories for years.
And the other issue is that he hasn't been transparent. I'm not going to get into the--
SINGLETON: About Butler? Yes. Oh, okay.
[22:50:07]
BOYKIN: I'm not going to get into the conspiracy about Butler, but the fact that he never released his medical records about Butler, and he claimed that he's--
SINGLETON: So we are getting into it. You see, we are getting into it.
AUSTIN: Yes.
HINOJOSA: That sounds pretty conspiratorial.
BOYKIN: No, I'm saying --
SINGLETON: That's just like the redistricting thing.
BOYKIN: I'm not saying it's true. I'm saying...
SINGLETON: You're gerrymandering.
BOYKIN: I'm saying the failure to talk about it honestly and provide transparent information--
SINGLETON: I don't believe that actually occurred though, right? Like this guy is saying it was staged.
BOYKIN: I have no reason to have no reason to disbelieve it, but I'm telling you the fact that he hasn't been transparent about this hasn't helped his case.
RIVERA: But aren't you being-- This is so crazy though, Keith. You are intentionally making things vague so people will say, oh, listen to that guy.
BOYKIN: No. I'm going to be...
SINGLETON: Can you clarify, Keith, please?
BOYKIN: I'm going to go down the rabbit hole.
SINGLETON: Please clarify, man.
BOYKIN: You can make an issue.
All right. Here's the thing. The one thing I think--
Everybody's looking at me weird.
RIVERA: This is Butler, Pennsylvania?
BOYKIN: This is Butler, Pennsylvania.
RIVERA: Oh, no. Careful, man.
BOYKIN: I'm not trying to get into trouble. Just the one thing that I think is very odd is the whole thing about the ear. The fact that he claimed that his ear was nicked off and everybody was wearing the band-aids at the Republican convention, and then it was healed a few weeks later.
There's never been an explanation for that. I'm not saying there's any truth to it. I'm just saying the lack of transparency--
RIVERA: What's the possibility? But, Keith.
BOYKIN: I don't know, but the Trump administration loves to exaggerate things.
PHILLIP: I'm sure there was something that got caught up in the question.
SINGLETON: Keith, it's like you're friends with this comedian guy.
BOYKIN: No, I'm not.
SINGLETON: Because this guy's amplifying nonsense, man. This is crazy.
PHILLIP: Isn't that weird? Okay, let me play.
SINGLETON: This is bizarre.
PHILLIP: But, Shermichael, it might be bizarre.
BOYKIN: I can't believe we're even taking this serious. I can't believe Trump had people wearing band-aids on the ears of the Republican convention.
PHILLIP: Hold on.
What's extraordinary, I think, about this moment is that Trump has primed his base to be very receptive to conspiracy theories. And so some of the people who amped up Trump for years, like Tucker Carlson, when they now start saying things like this, it's not surprising that the base then picks it up, hook, line, and sinker. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: The far more significant story involves the government, the DOJ, and the FBI, which have hidden from the public what they know about Thomas Crooks. Why are they pretending that there's nothing to see here? And more than anything, what are they hiding?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SINGLETON: Like we're living in an upside-down world. PHILLIP: This is a guy who says he wrote speeches for Trump. This is a
guy who campaigned with Trump. Again, the conspiratorial nature of Trump's base was created by Trump.
BOYKIN: Thank you.
PHILLIP: So now he's here, and he's potentially, I guess, a victim of it.
HINOJOSA: But Abby, the Democrats are just as guilty.
SINGLETON: I have a very difficult time taking these types of people serious.
BOYKIN: What about Donald Trump?
SINGLETON: I really do.
BOYKIN: What about Donald Trump?
HINOJOSA: So I work in the Justice Department, and it is not a conspiracy theory. But what I'll also say is if this were on the left, Donald Trump would have filed lawsuits against each one of those people for defamation because of this. But instead, you only see him going after outlets who have a great name.
SINGLETON: But can we all agree this is crazy, though?
HINOJOSA: Yes, then why doesn't he sue them?
SINGLETON: Can we just agree to that?
HINOJOSA: Then why doesn't he sue them?
SINGLETON: This is just nuts.
HINOJOSA: Then why doesn't he sue them?
PHILLIP: We do have to leave it there, my friends. Next for us, the panel is going to give us their nightcaps, sunset edition. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Today, the U.K. passed a bill issuing a lifetime ban on purchasing tobacco or vape products for anyone born after the year 2008. And back here in the U.S., smoking rates have hit an all-time low. So for tonight's news nightcap, what else should be sunsetted?
Shermichael, you're up first.
SINGLETON: If your dog poops or urinates on someone's lawn, $1000 fine. It ruins the grass. And I've seen people in my neighborhood walking around. they don't pick it up.
Have you guys seen that? They just leave it and keep going.
RIVERA: Oh, no. In New York City, you can't do that.
HINOJOSA: Oh, but they do. They do.
RIVERA: If you do, you really are all fine.
PHILLIP: All right. Xochitl.
HINOJOSA: Fax machines. Why do doctor's offices still use them? For referrals, they take them in, they still have a fax machine number on their website.
I don't under, and I don't know if they learned this in medical school. That's the only reason why they communicate like that, but why are they the only people to do it?
PHILLIP: And then they use like digital faxes, so then the fax number turns it into a digital filing. They could have sent it as a digital filing. That's a conspiracy theory I can get behind.
SINGLETON: Okay, so there we go, Abby.
RIVERA: I would outlaw man buns, bell bottoms on men, and bad mustaches.
BOYKIN: Okay.
PHILLIP: Can't argue with that one, either.
BOYKIN: The left lane of the highway is a passing lane. It is not a driving lane. If people are passing you on the right side, you need to get over.
SINGLETON: I agree with that, Keith.
BOYKIN: You are not supposed to be in that lane.
SINGLETON: Unless you're going fast, though, right? Okay, there we go.
AUSTIN: Well, mine is Labubus. I think it should be part of an I.Q. test. Oh, well, see, you're smart, so you don't know what that is.
But it's a very expensive doll that you put on a very expensive bag.
Labubus?
PHILLIP: Oh, they are?
AUSTIN: The real ones are.
SINGLETON" What the heck is a Labubus?
PHILLIP: It's like a little ugly animal that you put, a charm that you put on your bag.
SINGLETON: Okay.
HINOJOSA: Very expensive.
RIVERA: Every generation.
AUSTIN: Exactly. They should be sunsetted. If you spend that much money on something so salient to have to question your intelligence.
PHILLIP: Well the Labubu era is not going anywhere.
[23:00:00]
I heard that they're opening a physical store in Manhattan.
SINGLETON: Does your daughter have some?
PHILLIP: I have a Labubu.
HINOJOSA: No, I don't know.
PHILLIP: I didn't purchase it, but it was given to me.
AUSTIN: That's fair.
PHILLIP: I'm just saying, people are going to stores and purchasing Labubus.
SINGLETON: So this is like a movement.
AUSTIN: It's a fad.
PHILLIP: People collect them, and they have different values.
AUSTIN: It's like NFTs.
PHILLIP: Some of them are more valuable than others.
AUSTIN: It's like NFTs.
SINGLETON: Got a Labubu lesson tonight.
PHILLIP: Don't worry, this too will also go away.
Everyone, thank you very much. Thanks for watching "NewsNight," you can catch me anytime on your favorite social media -- X, Instagram, and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
