Return to Transcripts main page
CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Shooting Suspect Charged With Trying to Assassinate Trump; GOP Blames Democrats for Inciting Violence Against Trump; First Lady Calls on ABC to Fire Coward Kimmel Over Joke; Jimmy Kimmel Called Out for Widow Joke; Republicans Push for the Building of Ballroom; Trump Meets King Charles III. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 27, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, a uniquely American scene --
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: There's a whole bunch of gunshots and someone firing.
PHILLIP: -- devolves into a uniquely American aftermath.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The left wing cult of hatred against the president.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): They've incited violence, in my view.
PHILLIP: The finger pointing intensifies after the White House Correspondents' Dinner shooting.
PHILLIP: Plus --
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!: Mrs. Trump, you have a glow like an expectant widow.
PHILLIP: -- the first lady calls on ABC to fire Jimmy Kimmel and the president escalates her demand.
Also --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We need the ballroom.
JOHNSON: This is why we need the ballroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we got to build that ballroom as soon as possible.
PHILLIP: -- after the scare calls for construction amplify.
And Florida Republicans strike back in the redistricting wars as the Supremes green light the pro-red maps in Texas.
Live at the table, Charles Blow, Ben Ferguson, Adrienne Elrod, Marc Short, Juliette Kayyem and Sarah Ellison.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Tonight, the man accused of attacking the White House Correspondents' Dinner is now behind bars, but the rhetoric about who's to blame is in front of the nation. The suspect is charged with trying to assassinate President Trump. Prosecutors say he carried a handgun, a shotgun, and knives as he rushed the building. He also has a history of threats and hatred against Trump and administration officials.
Republicans in the last 24 hours have been quick to blame Democrats for motivating this attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: They've incited violence, in my view. I mean, you have some of the most prominent figures in the House and the Senate on the Democrat side effectively, you know, calling for war. I mean, they use that -- those kinds of metaphors. And it incites violence.
LEAVITT: The left wing cult of hatred against the President and all of those who support him and work for him has gotten multiple people hurt and killed, and it almost did so again this weekend.
DAN BONGINO, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: There's no shame in threatening the president's life on the left. So, this isn't a both sides thing. So, we can just cut that garbage out right now and just stop the nonsense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt also read quotes of many Democrats that she claims used violent rhetoric, including from House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. He responded to that accusation today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): His White House Press Secretary, who's a disgrace, who's a stone cold liar, had the nerve to stand up there and read talking points being critical of statements all taken out of context that Democrats have made and didn't have a word to say about anything that MAGA extremists have said or done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Marc Short, it is sort of this uniquely American moment that we have a violent act with a gun, with a person who's clearly deranged, then there's the partisan finger pointing. And now we're kind of back where we always are. I mean, is it fair to take this incident, say that it's the Democrats' fault, and if you're a Republican, never question or criticize President Trump for his rhetoric?
MARC SHORT, FORMER WHITE HOUSE LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR, FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: Abby, I think that the political rhetoric has gotten too coarse across the board. I think that that today in America, I think there's just simply too much vitriol that's exchanged. But I do think it's reality that there's been three assassination attempts on this president's life in the last two years. And I think that there has been a heightened amount of rhetoric that's been coming out of the left in recent days. And so I think it is appropriate for us to ask everybody to begin to bring the coarseness down.
ADRIENNE ELROD, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER AND SENIOR SPOKESPERSON, HARRIS 2024 CAMPAIGN: Look, I certainly agree with Marc on this.
[22:05:01]
But we also have to keep in mind that the president of the United States has been using very divisive rhetoric for a long time.
But I am hoping that we can have a reset here. I mean, it is bad on both sides. Everyone needs to chill and realize that there is more that unites us in this country than divide us. I was very happy to see President Trump on Saturday evening when he gave a press conference strike a very conciliatory tone. I'm hoping that that will continue. It feels like some of his surrogates today had been on T.V. very on message in a way that is not helpful. But both sides just need to come together and realize the more divisive rhetoric that comes out of the left and the right, the more people are going to be in danger.
PHILLIP: Charles?
CHARLES BLOW, AUTHOR, BLOW THE STACK ON SUBSTACK: But it's not just rhetoric. It's actually policies. We have a president who likes conspicuous cruelty. We saw it in how ICE was operating on the streets. It is why he wants to bring back Alcatraz. It is why he wants to bring back firing squads. It is why he was delighted with his visit to Alligator Alcatraz. And, in fact, when the reporter asked him before he traveled to Florida what that was the point to make sure that if they tried to get away, that they would be eaten by alligators. He says, we're going to teach them how to run and they better not run in a straight line. They better run like this.
That conspicuous cruelty and wanting to see that, and in his first administration saying that he wanted police officers to rough up people that they arrested before they even got into jail, got a trial, that lust for that is a whole other thing. We can't keep saying like, oh, it's just because people are talking. There are things that are happening that we are seeing and that is a real thing and that is contributing to a negative environment in this country.
PHILLIP: Is it a both -- and, I mean, I think they're making the point, there is a lot of violence right now, but it is also true that President Trump is the most powerful megaphone, not to mention person in this country, and he himself has a very long history of violent rhetoric. BEN FERGUSON, HOST, THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW: Maximum warfare everywhere all the time. That was said before and after the last person that just tried to kill Donald Trump. We're going to have more people try to kill Donald Trump if we don't stop --
PHILLIP: Let's just -- let me just -- well, yes. Well, you're -- okay.
FERGUSON: I'm quoting Hakeem Jeffries and the Democrat card.
PHILLIP: Well, let me actually play Hakeem Jeffries in context. Just listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: Hakeem Jeffries just this April, this month, said, we are in an era of maximum warfare everywhere all the time.
JEFFRIES: Donald Trump and Republicans launched this gerrymandering war. We are in an era of maximum warfare everywhere all the time. And we're going to keep the pressure on Republicans in every single state in the union to ensure at the end of the day that there is a fair national map.
LEAVITT: Governor Josh Shapiro said heads need to roll within the administration.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): People have been disappeared in the community. American civil rights have been violated. None of this is acceptable. Heads do need to roll certainly within the administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, the reason I stopped you is because there is a difference between using an idiom and a figure of speech and calling for violence. Any person who understands the English language knows that. And I think that is true of that quote that you just wrote read of Hakeem Jeffries and the one that you heard from Josh Shapiro.
FERGUSON: There will be more attacks and there'll be more conservatives that would be killed if the Democratic Party doesn't wake up and realize that words had meaning and they light the fuse. It has happened to too many people, including Charlie Kirk, a friend of mine. You can't sit here and have Joe Biden say that Donald Trump, quote, is a clear and present danger to democracy and then have surrogates out there --
BLOW: Is that not true?
ELROD: I mean, he is.
FERGUSON: The American people don't believe that. They elected him again.
BLOW: Do you believe it?
FERGUSON: I don't believe he's a clear and present danger to this country. I think he's a savior of this country.
BLOW: I absolutely do. I absolutely do.
FERGUSON: I believe that you do.
BLOW: And I believe that a lot of Americans do too. And calling something what it is not an incitement to violence.
FERGUSON: It is for the people trying to kill Donald Trump.
BLOW: No.
FERGUSON: In the manifesto said that is why they were trying to kill Donald Trump. Read their words and their manifests. It will tell you.
BLOW: And, listen, it is a very easy thing for me to say that a violent person behaving violently is wrong. It is a very easy thing -- I'm sorry. I'll finish. And it is a very easy thing for me to say that political violence does not belong in our politics and it is a sign of an unhealthy democracy. But I will never take lessons in civility from this president and this White House when they have engaged --
(CROSSTALKS)
[22:10:00]
BLOW: And conservatives did not want to connect Donald Trump's rhetoric to Charlottesville. They did not --
(CROSSTALKS)
BLOW: No, they did not.
(CROSSTALKS)
BLOW: They did not want to connect him to January 6th and his rhetoric and all the things that he said around January 6th to that violence. They did not get upset with him when he pardoned all of the January 6th rioters. They did not -- I'm sorry --
(CROSSTALKS)
BLOW: What I'm trying to understand is that hypocrisy does not feel good to Americans and they rejected it.
PHILLIP: Let me just say, Ben, nobody here has justified the attempts against President Trump's life or anybody's life. Charles didn't. Nobody at this table did that. There is though a question of to what extent is rhetoric responsible for where we are politically.
And, Juliette, I mean, I want to put this up because our audience has probably seen this before. 2025, this is that last year, has shown that left wing violence has, for the first time in about in over 20 years, outpaced right wing violence in this country. So, that's something that is notable. It's important to combat, to address. But what does this chart say to you? JULIETTE KAYYEEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It says that we have a country in which a small percentage of people believe that violence is the natural extension of politics. And we can look at this person or that person, try to find an ideology or an encompassing ideology. The ideology is violence as politics.
So, the way we look at it in terms of the radicalization process is the language essentially of annihilation is really what draws people to violence. In other words, they believe that the table can only sit six people, and therefore if another person gets a seat at the table, they have to be removed because then my seat is taken.
So, you can look at the language and pierce language, but I do want to just say something that's clear that people react to their leadership's language and that leadership, no one compares to Donald Trump. So, instead of saying, you know, it's not his fault, or it is his fault, maybe we can just look to the future, which would be what would you want a good leader to do for the United States in the future.
And I don't think any of us can sit here realistically and say, Donald Trump can take on that mission. He can take on the mission to try to tone things down, to try to get violence out -- to try to get violence out of this situation. Which one?
FERGUSON: But he did not the other night, for real? Like, seriously, if someone had tried to kill me for the fourth time, I don't think I would've been as calm as Donald Trump.
KAYYEM: As I said, if you pierce a certain state --
FERGUSON: I don't think it's funny to laugh at about a guy almost getting shot.
BLOW: I'm not laughing at him. I'm literally laughing at you because --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Let me let Juliette finish her thought, please.
BLOW: If you pierce a certain language or a certain moment of a leader, right, he said this and that was a good moment, or he said this and that was a bad moment, you're sort of missing the totality of circumstances. So, I'm not here to fight about whether it's all Donald Trump's fault or all the left's fault. I just say, if you thought I want to fix this for the country, it would be, you would look to your leadership and in fact you would give the president, a president, not this president, any president, the responsibility of their position to say that a leader would try to tone things down.
And I just honestly think none of us believe that to be true, and that's therefore the challenge in the future, is that the language on the right or the left is unlikely to change until citizens, honestly, becomes intolerant of it. And the fact -- FERGUSON: There's a new polling data that's out that say that there's about 20 percent of young Democrats in this country that think political violence is acceptable. Could that be because we have normalized demonizing the sitting president of the United States America and calling him Adolf Hitler, or saying he's a threat to democracy, or saying that he's an evil man?
BLOW: J.D. Vance called him Adolf Madoff Hitler.
FERGUSON: Again, I go back -- did he take it back?
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: This is why they will never stop trying to kill Donald Trump because there is no bullet that can be shot at him that somehow is not justified by the left saying, well, somehow it's Donald Trump's fault.
PHILLIP: Well, look --
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: They're going to try to kill him forever if you all keep this up.
PHILLIP: Hold on. I'll just say this until I'm blue in the face. No one at this table nobody has justified --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: And so I think that --
FERGUSON: With all due respect --
PHILLIP: No, with all due respect, making those kinds of generalizations only coarsens the dialogue that we're trying to have.
[22:15:03]
And, look, if your argument is that --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on.
FERGUSON: (INAUDIBLE) Trump after he got shot at.
PHILLIP: Hold on. If your argument is that the totality of the circumstances are simply what is being said about Donald Trump, that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy, whatever.
Let me just play this. This is Karoline Leavitt. She's accusing Democrats of what you're accusing them of. And then listen to the rest of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LEAVITT: Senator Elizabeth Warren, President Trump is making the country look like a, quote, fascist state, Senator Adam Schiff saying, President Trump using a dictator playbook. Senator Ed Markey calling President Trump a dictator saying that this administration's actions are authoritarianism on steroids.
TRUMP: We are living in a fascist state.
It all comes out of the White House, crooked Joe Biden, the worst president in the history of our country.
He's a radical left Marxist communist fascist.
She's a Marxist. She's a fascist.
Comrade Kamala Harris.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, look, the point is that it's not that Donald Trump is responsible for violence against those people. The point is that it's not enough to explain the moment that we are in. It's just did he call her a fascist, did she call him a fascist, because that is happening on both sides of the debate. There is more that is contributing to where we are as a country, and it is bad. It is unquestionably bad. And if we fail to actually address the root causes, we are going nowhere.
FERGUSON: I would say this. So, if we want to bring the country together, since Donald Trump was actually shot, has he toned down his rhetoric or has he raised the rhetoric?
PHILLIP: It has been --
FERGUSON: It has definitely toned down from 2016 to 2020.
PHILLIP: It has been 48 hours.
FERGUSON: No. The first time when he was shot in the ear, has his rhetoric gone up or down?
PHILLIP: All right.
FERGUSON: I agree with you. In '16, '17, '18, '19, and '20, he was way more in your face. You look at a guy that was shot at again the other night, he went much calmer, much calmer, and yet you still say this is somehow Donald Trump's fault.
PHILLIP: We have more to on this topic because there's more on this topic. But to answer your question, has Donald Trump's behavior changed, this is to Juliette's point --
FERGUSON: What (INAUDIBLE) the other night differently?
PHILLIP: This is to Juliette's point. It's not any one particular moment. It is a totality circumstances. KAYYEM: But can I also think let's maybe if we could just sort of switch the conversation just look going forward, and I just -- does anyone at this table believe that Trump can lead, because he is the leader of the United States, towards a less violent rhetoric that has permeated the way many isolated people, mostly men in this country, view politics? Look at the guy on Saturday night. He's apolitical until 18 months ago. He then gets drawn into the left. I'm not defending the left and nothing I said would suggest anything that political violence is horrible. Assassination attempts, of course, I've condemned over and it's scary that they're becoming normalized, I agree with you. But if you just look going forward, a country's tone is set by its leader.
And forget the past, who's -- what Jeffries said or what Trump said going forward, if you think Trump can do that, can lead that change, why doesn't he do that? Because he hasn't --
(CROSSTALKS)
SHORT: I think it's not inconsistent --
PHILLIP: We have pause. We can continue this conversation when we get to the other side of the break.
The president and the first lady are calling on ABC to fire Jimmy Kimmel after he told a joke before the dinner. Another special guest is going to be with us at the table.
Plus, would Donald Trump's ballroom have prevented this incident? Republicans are saying yes, and they are now demanding that the project get the green light immediately. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, Melania Trump is calling for Jimmy Kimmel to be fired over the White House Correspondent' Dinner-themed skit on his show last week. Kimmel's monologue, which was made days before an alleged gunman attempted to assassinate President Trump included him appearing at a mock version of the annual event with jokes directed at the president and his family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMEL: In the unfortunate event that our president has a medical emergency tonight, do we have a doctor in the house? I mean, oh, sorry. I mean, do we have a Jesus in the house? I always confuse them too. I get why you think you're Jesus. This guy, every time he walks into a room, people say, Christ, he's back.
Of course, our first lady, Melania, is here. Look at Melania, so beautiful. Mrs. Trump, you have a glow, like an expectant widow.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: In a social media post, the first lady called Kimmel a coward, saying, enough is enough. Donald Trump went further saying the Kimmel's jokes were beyond the pale and a despicable call to violence. Representatives for ABC and Kimmel did not immediately respond to CNN's request for comment, and Sarah Ellison is now with us at the table.
Sarah, we're back again here with Jimmy Kimmel and the president and the first family. Do you think that this time is different?
SARAH ELLISON, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Well, I think certainly Donald Trump hopes it's different because this is his opportunity to actually try to win this fight. I mean, there's nothing that enrages him more than being beaten, and that's exactly what happened last fall, which you're referring to, which is that after attempting after the FCC sort of jawboned ABC into trying to get Kimmel off the air.
[22:25:04]
They did so for a week and then he was -- after a mass -- you know, a massive backlash, he was brought back on. And that was the first really -- I don't know if it was the first, but it was one of the most important moments when Donald Trump was trying to go after not only the media, but law firms and higher education, when there was a real backlash and he was unsuccessful.
And I think that that -- I don't think -- I mean, I talk to people around him that he is very eager to undo that defeat and he wants another shot at Kimmel. And, you know, he was obviously upset about what he said, but that was such -- I mean, I don't think that it was an actual fear of that he was calling for violence.
PHILLIP: So, yes. I mean, look --
FERGUSON: Wow. It's amazing we sit this table and everything is Donald Trump's fault. And when you call and put up a picture of the first lady and you laugh about her being a widow and her husband being killed, who's already been shot, that somehow that is Donald Trump's fault and he's mean to Jimmy Kimmel. And once Jimmy Kimmel gone -- I don't know who you've talked to, the White House. I'm around the White House. I promise you a lot more than you are. The president has not talked about this at all, at all. Like it's on the list of things he gives you, you know, what about it's down here. But when you go on T.V. --
PHILLIP: The thing that he sent a Truth Social post about this morning?
FERGUSON: After it was said, you can respond. And, by the way, if this was a joke, Jimmy Kimmel could have immediately been a comedian and said, hey, in light of what happened tonight, that was a joke I apologize for and I'm sorry. Because a rogue comedian would say -- but he didn't, and you wanted -- no, you would do it immediately at Twitter. I can tweet right now on your show.
PHILLIP: But hold on. I think the -- FERGUSON: he knows he's not going to get fired, but he wanted her to be --
ELLISON: Do you think he was referring to Donald Trump being murdered or do you think that he was referring to a 56-year-old woman who was married to an 80-something year old man?
FERGUSON: I think when you've been shot at three times and now, or this being the third and four different times he would try to kill you, yes, I'm going to go out there and say, Jimmy's a smart guy and I think him saying a widow and I think they audience laughed, and they weren't laughing at his joke.
PHILLIP: I don't know -- I'm not at all trying to be clairvoyant about what jokes he meant --
FERGUSON: It's a weak stretch.
PHILLIP: -- but I will say that we played the lead up to the jokes so that you could hear the rest of the context. Look, I'm not saying you need to like the joke, but the rest of the joke was the president -- what if -- if something were to happen to the president tonight, is there a doctor in the house or Jesus?
SHORT: We've been here before several times though, Jimmy Kimmel. I mean, he hates Trump. I think the first lady --
ELLISON: A comedian. He's comedian.
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: I'm not arguing --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
SHORT: ABC should fire him. ABC should fire him. The first lady is right.
FERGUSON: If I made that joke, I would get fired.
SHORT: That's not an FCC interaction. That is what ABC should be doing.
FERGUSON: If I made that joke on my show joking, I would be fired as I should be, especially if someone tried to kill that person. I didn't apologize immediately.
PHILLIP: Charles?
BLOW: Donald Trump posts mock violence on his Truth Social before that Twitter.
FERGUSON: So, therefore shooting Trump, got it.
BLOW: So, can you stop talking for just half a second? That would be great.
All the time, and we take it as a joke. He posted a video of him beating up CNN in 2017. You re-tweeted that and said, isn't this funny? So, it's a joke then when he is doing the violence, but not --
FERGUSON: Did you -- we're going to go back to that. Let's go back to it. Was he doing it in response to something that CNN had said and it turned into a back and forth?
BLOW: It literally doesn't matter.
FERGUSON: That's different than talking about someone who's been shot.
BLOW: It literally doesn't matter.
FERGUSON: If I made a joke about someone you being a widow tonight and then someone took a shot at you, would you think that was a joke? No.
BLOW: It's about protecting speech, not populous speech.
FERGUSON: I'm not saying that you don't have the right to say something stupid.
BLOW: The First Amendment is about --
(CROSSTALKS)
FERGUSON: It doesn't mean that a corporation has to employ you.
BLOW: Exactly. And they choose to employ him or not, and they can choose to keep him. But Melania and Donald Trump have the right to object to what he has said. All of that is free speech. That is how it works. The idea that he wants to put pressure on the network to get rid of him because he doesn't like the speech, that steps out --
FERGUSON: He doesn't like people making jokes about his wife (INAUDIBLE) after people were trying to kill him.
ELLISON: He's been enormously successful going after the media in a variety of different ways.
FERGUSON: Who's gotten fired because of him? Give me a list.
ELLISON: Are you familiar --
FERGUSON: No one. Who big has he talked about that's been fired?
ELLISON: Stephen Colbert.
FERGUSON: Stephen Colbert hasn't been fired. We saw on the show, and you all said it was because of the economics of T.V. That was the entire discussion.
PHILLIP: You said that.
FERGUSON: I said he was -- no, I did not say that. I said that no one was watching you (INAUDIBLE).
ELLISON: Do you think that Donald Trump conversation at this table there enormous amount of pressure on media organizations?
[22:30:01]
Was he being feted by David Ellison at a private dinner just a few days before that?
FERGUSON: Barack Obama, when he was president, met with all those guys too. And they're --
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: Which deal? I was going to say --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: And also, was there a massive corporate deal?
PHILLIP: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: Do you think that that was appropriate? Do you think that was appropriate for him to be meeting with the CEO of a company that has an active merger that's going to go before his administration where he's the CEO and chief?
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: All administrations meet with the leaders of companies when there's especially --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sorry but it's not true. That's not true.
FERGUSON: How many CEOs were at the residence on --
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. We were talking before the break about Trump's tone on Saturday night and I think he actually attempted to strike a measured tone in those moments after the shooting. But it's a -- he came out of a First Amendment dinner where he was excited to roast the press, which is totally what he, you know, you should have been doing. And then Monday morning, here we are. And it's a question of whether the First Amendment extends to Jimmy Kimmel or does it not?
SHORT: I don't think (inaudible) it should. I think we're saying that ABC should remove him. That's not a government-enforced action. That is ABC --
(CROSSTALK)
SHORT: ABC has the choice to do it, but I'm suggesting they should. And I think advertisers should take note of it, too.
ELROD: Well, and he also said he's going to address this tonight. I understand what you're saying, that he could have tweeted something quickly, but he said he's going to address it tonight on his show. But look, I think that we are -- it is not right or fair to say that the left Jimmy Kimmel, Democrats are the only ones who are attacking Donald Trump.
That is simply -- he also has a device of rhetoric, which is why it would be lovely to see the tone that we saw from Donald Trump after the White House Correspondence Center. If he could set the tone for the country as the leader of this country, set the tone. I understand things have happened in the past, but there is the future that we have to look forward to. And he has the power as the President the United States to actually do a reset, set the tone in the right direction.
FERGUSON: Is there a responsibility that lies on anyone else but Donald Trump, that after Donald Trump and the multiple assassination attempts, is there is -- because everything's been about Trump responsibility all night, is there any responsibility for Jimmy Kimmel to read the room and realize that hey, this guy's been shot at a couple of times, maybe I shouldn't make a joke about the first lady being a widow?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on. I think that's a -- this is a fair question for a Jimmy Kimmel, not about what can he do, but about taste, okay? So, to answer his question, I mean, is there a conversation to have that's like this joke, you have a right to say it, but it's in poor taste?
BLOW: Yes. Also, but here's the thing. You can't -- Donald Trump can't give that lesson. This is the same person who said -- who pushed the conspiracy, first of all, made fun of Paul Pelosi for being attacked, who was almost killed, made fun of him for being attacked, and then pushed the conspiracy theory that the glass was broken from the outside -- from the inside out and not from the outside in. And the basis of that conspiracy theory was that that was Paul Pelosi's gay lover.
This is the same person who when Melissa Hortman was actually assassinated in Minnesota, pushed the conspiracy theory by reposting a video on his Truth social that Governor Tim Walz was involved and the question mark was whether or he had had her assassinated.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: I understand, you know, I -- is there any accountability for anybody else besides Donald Trump?
BLOW: He cannot -- he cannot --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Charles, Ben, hold on, Ben. Hold on a second, Ben. I asked Charles to respond to your question. Let me ask you to respond to his. When President Trump does the things that he describes, he shared a video of supporters saying the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat. He's posted a video showing President Biden, hogtied, et cetera, et cetera. You could go on and on. Is there accountability, responsibility for him to not do those things?
FERGUSON: I go back to what I said at the beginning of show. If I had just been shot at again, had someone trying to kill me again, I think the President's rhetoric from the White House and saying, we're going to do this dinner. It is important to have this dinner. We're going to do this quickly. We're going to come together. I saw people coming together. That was an incredible moment of unity, but he gets no credit for it. I understand that. But I go back to the point.
PHILLIP: My question was -- my question was, was it wrong --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, my question was, my question was, was it wrong --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: My question was is there a responsibility for President Trump to not behave the way that he has behaved in the past? And can you just say it was wrong, he shouldn't have done it?
FERGUSON: I go back to the service possibly for networks, the police themselves.
[22:35:00]
PHILLIP: I'm talking to Ben about the reciprocal of what I just asked Charles, but I just asked Charles the same question on the reciprocal side. I'm not asking you about what has changed. I'm asking you, was it wrong?
FERGUSON: He's clearly changed. I think he's making changes.
PHILLIP: I'm asking you, was it wrong?
FERGUSON: I think he's making changes.
PHILLIP: Was it wrong, Ben?
FERGUSON: I don't think every tweet he would have put out would have put out. I've said on that show before.
PHILLIP: The President celebrated the death of Robert Mueller --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: It still is amazing to me tonight that we are sitting here and it's all Trump's fault that he keeps getting shot at because of rhetoric --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Listen, this actually is no longer about Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: It sure is. Every conversation you've been, somehow this is Trump's fault and therefore he deserves --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Ben, this is actually not about Trump anymore. It's about you.
BLOW: Exactly.
PHILLIP: It's about whether or not you are willing to say that wrong is wrong. It's wrong when Jimmy Kimmel does it. It's wrong when Donald Trump does it. That's what this is about.
FERGUSON: I go back to what I said a moment ago. I think, clearly, Donald Trump has changed his rhetoric and is moving in a direction that you guys should say that's encouraging.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right. All right, guys. Let me -- we have to go but I'll let Marc --
(CROSSTALK)
SHORT: No, is a moral relativism here. There is, Abby. Let me, let me ask you. It's been getting a lot of attention on social media that James Carville was saying, I don't want him to just die. I want to see him tortured and die. I want to see him suffer.
UNKNOWN: How long till he's back on CNN?
PHILLIP: I have no idea. James, James Carville has not been on the show. So, I mean, look, I did not hear those comments. Those are not things that he should have said. I don't have any problem saying that at all.
ELROD: We can agree that it's a Democratic or Republican thing.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: So, back to Jimmy Kimmel then.
PHILLIP: Guys, hold on. No, Marc, seriously. I have no problem saying that something like that is beyond the pale and shouldn't be in the public dialogue. That's not my issue. I don't have a problem saying that. I don't have a problem saying that Jimmy Kimmel's joke was a bad joke. The question is, can we all say that? Can we say that about Jimmy Kimmel and about the President of the United States?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay, that's I'm asking. UNKNOWN: He's not a (inaudible). He's the President.
SHORT: Isn't there also responsibility of ABC?
PHILLIP: Absolutely ABC's responsibility. They're private corporation.
SHORT: Yes.
PHILLIP: They get to decide. Not the President. Not the First Lady, okay? Not the FCC Chairman.
SHORT: I agree with you.
PHILLIP: Next for us, the President and the Republicans now demanding to finish the White House ballroom in the wake of the shooting. We're going to discuss what it might fix and what it might not. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:42:04]
PHILLIP: Was Saturday's assassination attempt on the President enough to get the White House ballroom across the finish line? Republicans are renewing their calls to jumpstart this paused construction project, claiming that Saturday justifies the need for it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We need the ballroom. That's why Secret Service, that's why the military are demanding it.
I'm building the safe ballroom. And one of the reasons I'm building it is exactly what happened last night.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R) HOSE SPEAKER: This is why we need the ballroom. It really is. The President's right about that. We need a facility that is secure enough to host events like this without having major national security concerns.
MARIA BARTIROMO, "MORNINGS WITH MARIA" FOX NEW ANCHOR: What needs to be done now?
UNKNOWN: But I think we've got to build that ballroom as soon as possible.
SEN. RICK SCOTT, (R-FL): Democrats are going to have to start showing up. I mean, this is ridiculous. Not funding Homeland Security, trying to stop a ballroom. It's all just Trump derangement syndrome.
TODD BLANCHE, ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL: The fact that the ballroom is spectacular, it's going to be beautiful. It's going to make this country look great every time it's used. It's also a meaningful safety issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Juliet is back with us. I've got a of a softball question for you. Will this ballroom solve our national security problems?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER ASSISTANT DHS SECRETARY: That is, that is, in my field, that's a softball. No. Do you want more? Look, between a hotel that was unsecure and a ballroom at the White House with its own legal, monetary, political issues, there's a lot of room for better safety, right? The world doesn't exist between an assassination attempt, and Trump only have --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Are we only going to let presidents appear at the White House?
KAYYEM: Right. But also, it's like not his event.
(CROSSTALK)
KAYYEM: The way to think about this, and I wrote about this in "The Atlantic" today, is look, every event has an essence, right? And I that sounds hokey, but we go to an Olympics or we, you know, wan to you know, we're hosting the World Cup, or you celebrate the First Amendment and the media at the White House Correspondence Association. That essence, is somewhat related to this the level of safety for an event. So, you want people to move around. You want people to be able to host.
So yes, you can say the ballroom as if it didn't have its own complications, you know, will be secure, but that's for one person, because the rest of us live our lives and want to be together. And so, the way I look at what happened on Saturday night is if you if you define the Secret Service's role as securing where the President is and protecting him, A plus. I know people don't want to say that, but A plus, right?
Then you say, well, why was the other stuff porous or why was this guy allowed in? That's where I want more security. But I don't want to hide a President, close down a party, don't let the media celebrate, or only under the auspices of the White House. It's just from, let me just put it very quickly. It's not a security argument.
[22:45:00]
If he wants his ballroom, that's not a security
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Not only that, but I mean this is a private event. It's hosted by a private organization. Lindsey Graham was asked about it today, about how these two things even connect. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: That was a private event at a private location from a private organization. It's not held by the White House. And it had twice as many guests as this proposed ballroom would hold. So, why do find it appropriate to link these two events so closely?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Well, I find it appropriate if you're going to have the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, the Speaker of the House, and half the cabinet in a room, the room matters. And the idea that you can't do this in the ballroom, we'll be up to the Correspondence Association. It is insane to do this again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Twenty-six hundred people attended the dinner last night, 1300 would fit in Trump's ballroom. Not only that, but is the President, again, is the President and the Vice President, are they never going to attend private events outside of the White House campus unless there is a ballroom?
SHORT: I think we need to separate two things. There's never going be a White House Correspondents' Dinner at the White House. That's a little bit of a red herring there.
PHILLIP: Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. That's true.
SHORT: There is a real national security component of what's underneath there. It's more than a bunker that, you know, sometimes a president is taken to. And if our national security experts believe that that facility needs to be expanded, it is quite remarkable, Abby. And if that's something that needs to be expanded, then Congress should be listening to it. That is separate from the bar room. That's what's underneath. And it's all part of the same expansion.
BLOW: But in court documents, they made the argument that they needed the structure above it to sit on top of what was below it. Like they could not have the part on the ground be exposed and not have a ball. That's kind of crazy. Like that's not -- I don't buy that argument that they'd have to have a ballroom on top of it. You could go further down, whatever the case may be.
SHORT: By fully, you mean you need to have a structure.
BLOW: They said they had to have a ballroom on top of it in order to sit on top of the --
SHORT: But it's not as if there's not a national security opponent. They're saying that facility needs to be expanded.
PHILLIP: All right, we're going to hit pause and after the break, we'll talk about who is paying for it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:51:53]
PHILLIP: We're going to introduce legislation that would authorize $400 million to be spent to secure - to build the presidential ballroom. We've paid for it by offsetting it with custom fees, but the estimate is $332 million. We're going do $400 million because I think it's probably going to take more. Private donations can be used, but I think they should be used for buying China and stuff like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: He meant not China the country, China the plates, for those wondering. But I thought we were, we being the American people, we're not paying for this ballroom. What happened?
FERGUSON: Yes, I think originally it was not. Now, I think it's a national security issue for the President. I don't think Donald Trump's going to get to use this ballroom. I don't think it's going to be done before he leaves office based on what we were told today and yesterday.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: --not a bait and switch.
FERGUSON: No, it's not a bait and switch. I think the President understands that we have 25 percent of the Democratic Party believes that political violence is appropriate.
ELROD: Okay.
FERGUSON: That's the poll. Like, you can argue with your own party about that i wish it was lower. But there are going to be multiple presidents, Republican and Democrat that are going to need to have a secure place for more events. You're not going to have outdoor events anymore. And in 2026, with 25 percent of the Democratic Party saying political violence is appropriate, I think you build the ballroom.
PHILLIP: So, what about Trump's UFC fight? What about his Formula One? What about going to Turning Point conferences? Trump's not going outside anymore?
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: If you're talking about dollars and cents, I think this is also --
PHILLIP: No, I'm talking about where is the President going where you think he might be safe? Is he going to ever leave the White House compounds?
FERGUSON: He's clearly taking fewer chances based on what we've seen.
PHILLIP: The President was in a UFC stadium.
FERGUSON: Right, not outdoor. Indoor.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- weeks ago.
FERGUSON: And if you go back to what the President said about --
PHILLIP: The White House Correspondence Center was indoors too, by the way.
FERGUSON: Yes, I understand what you're saying. You go back to, I'm going to answer the question you asked. Will a President only be at the White House? No. No one said that at the White House. I don't even know why that's being brought up. Is there a chance to have more secure events? By the way, it costs a lot less money. You talk to law enforcement when the President leaves to go to an outside event. It costs a lot of money. This is not some crazy budget item based on the cash that you would save by having at the White House.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Why are the American people paying for a $400-million ballroom that their representatives didn't authorize in the first place?
BLOW: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: And also --
FERGUSON: Wait, hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: The fact that it's obscene that he did this anyway without anybody knowing it --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: According to the judge, it actually, by law, according to the district judge who ruled on this, by law, it is supposed to go to a vote, yes.
FERGUSON: Congress approves it, though, you're saying that it will be struck down by court. I don't think that's going to happen.
PHILLIP: No, that's the opposite of what I'm saying -- the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying the court ruling was that Congress needs to approve it, which Congress had not and has not.
FERGUSON: And now they're looking at doing it.
PHILLIP: Right. So, after the fact, after Trump has torn down the original building, decided how much it was going to cost without going through a normal process, now he's telling the American people, actually not private donations, but according to Lindsey Graham, taxpayer dollars.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
[22:55:00]
SHORT: Abby, outside of John Fetterman, is there any Democrat in the Senate that's going vote for this? PHILLIP: No
SHORT: So, you're not going to get to 16.
PHILLIP: Exactly.
SHORT: So, it's like we're churning here. It's like there's this, it's the Senate --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I mean, look at all these posts from MAGA World. It was almost like a chorus, like a coordinated chorus. Within minutes of this horrible event on Saturday night, the most important thing is a ballroom?
UNKNOWN: No, you're exactly right.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: No, we don't want them to get killed.
ELROD: And look, I will give, I will give MAGA props for having a well-coordinated surrogate effort to champion the ballroom. But the bottom line is this, Abby. Trump's approval ratings are well under 40 percent right now. If you're the average voter out there thinking about who am going to vote for in the midterms, obviously Trump not being on the ballot, but which party am going to vote for? Am I going to vote for the party who wants to use $400 million of my taxpayer dollars to build an extravagant ballroom?
Am I going to vote for someone who's fighting for affordability, fighting to lower prices? And that's why Democrats are doing so well because the optics of this, forget the legalities, it's the optics that look disastrous for Trump.
PHILLIP: All right everyone, thank you very much for being here. Coming up, a look at the royal visit to the White House that just happened today. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:00:05]
PHILLIP: As the world watched a high-stakes meeting between Donald Trump and King Charles III, the attention briefly turned to something sweeter, beekeeping at the White House. First Lady Melania Trump, she announced the expansion of the White House beehives with a new installation expected to boost honey production.
Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
