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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
GOP Munity Over Trump's $1.8B Fund; Ballroom Also In Danger; Iran Rebuilding Military, Undercutting trump's "Decimation" Claims; U.S. Intel Shows Iran Rebuilding Military Faster Than Expected; Democrats Release the Unedited 2024 Election Autopsy Report; Controversial "The Late Show" on CBS Signed Off Tonight for the Last Time Amid Trump Interference. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 21, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:39]
JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Jessica Dean in tonight for Abby Phillip.
And tonight, is President Trump losing his tight grip on Republican lawmakers?
His crusade against GOP candidates who defied him has certainly been effective. But as for the ones currently working in the Senate chamber, it appears support is slipping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is some backlash from the Senate Republicans to some of the other priorities of the ballroom and that anti- weaponization fund.
You clearly still have a strong vote on the Republican Party. Your candidates did very well this week during the primaries.
But are you losing control of the Senate, sir? Are you losing control of the Senate, Senate Republicans?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I really don't know. I really don't know. I can tell you, I only do what's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Trump's agenda taking a big hit this week. Many Republican senators speaking out against funding for his billion dollar ballroom. The Senate parliamentarian ultimately sinking that and his $1.8 billion fund to compensate victims of alleged weaponized prosecution was so unpopular. It derailed Republicans' plans to pass a major immigration enforcement package.
Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche was on the Hill today to defend that fund to lawmakers, but that didn't go over well. A source telling CNN hardly anyone defended the fund in that closed- door meeting and Blanche faced stiff resistance.
Senator Ron Johnson telling CNN's Manu Raju a colleague called the fund a quote, galactic blunder. Johnson agreed with that assessment and he wasn't the only one.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I do not support the weaponization fund as it has been described.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): I just don't know how this puppy dog will work. I'm not sure where the money's coming from. I'm not sure who's going to decide. I don't know anything about anything.
SEN. JOE HOEVEN (R-ND): We need more information on it. I mean, we discussed it yesterday, but that's why it's coming back, because we need more information.
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): These people don't deserve restitution. They -- many of them deserve to be in prison, but this is -- I mean, this is just stupid on stilts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think you have colleagues that share the same concerns that you're expressing?
TILLIS: Yes, they do. And they need to speak up. I mean, this is beyond the pale. This is not good for my colleagues. There's no one positive thing that could be spun out of this between now and November.
This is bad policy. It's bad timing and it's bad politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: We're joined now by tonight's guests at the table.
Interesting too hearing from Senate Majority Leader John Thune who drew the line from what's happening politically with President Trump going after some of these sitting senators and endorsing others in their primaries. Somebody like Bill Cassidy, John Cornyn, and what we're seeing play out in the Senate.
Ben, let's start with you. Do you think he's losing some -- some of the very tight grip he's had for a very long time?
BEN FERGUSON, HOST, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": I think he's lost people he didn't endorse, which is, you know, welcome to politics. And I think he's trying to make sure he's got a better team moving into the next two years of his term.
I think that's the reason why he decided to, for example, endorse Kim Paxton in Texas, where I'm from, and to say, look, guys that aren't really fighting hard right now, who are establishment, I'm not going to back you. Cassidy in Louisiana is the same example of that. He wants an upgrade there.
And I think proof that he's making the right choice is the fact that these guys, as soon as they knew they were out, they're like, I don't like you. It's personal and by golly, I'm giving you nothing until the day I leave here.
It's -- it's, you know, spoiled milk. It is where it is, but they'll be gone in January. So I think the president's making the right decision.
[22:05:04]
DEAN: But until then, they still have power in the Senate.
FERGUSON: Yes. I mean, they do. They have a lot of power. But I also think the president's playing the long game. He understands that he wasn't going to get as much of his agenda done if you have people behind the scenes that are fighting against you in your own party.
He dealt with that for four years when he was in office the first time. And I think that's why he's now way more outspoken on this saying, I'm finding teammates who understand what we're doing with America first agenda, that too I'm going to endorse, that too I'm going to fight for.
And by the way, the Republican Party said yes to all of those candidates from the president this last week. They said we trust you. We like your agenda. And we're going to send those people to Washington and incumbents who had an insane amount of money come in.
Cornyn's a great example of this. The amount of money they wasted in D.C. with the elites there to try to save him, it's been a disaster. He won't be going back to Washington D.C. and I think he even knows it.
CHARLES BLOW, LANGSTON HUGHES FELLOW, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Look, it's the -- it's a Shakespearean story, like, from the -- the famous life of Hamlet. He's being hoisted on his own petard. He was so eager to punish them for even the most minor deviations from -- from loyalty to him that he has made them all angry.
Yes, I agree. I would like for them not to just show courage and conviction when they're on their way out the door. I want them to show courage and conviction when they're in the room when they're on the way into the door.
But it seems like, you know, spines are like flickering lights.
FERGUSON: It's courage to be mad at the president (INAUDIBLE). That's not courage.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: Finds are like flickering lights in the Republican Party, sometimes you see. And just as soon as you see it, it goes away.
I remember these same Republicans standing up after J6 and saying, oh, this is a horrible day. This is a horrible thing. And some of this blame lays at the feet of the president.
And then for the next four years, they call amnesia, right? Because they don't believe -- there -- there's no conviction, the spine melted and everybody fell in line.
FERGUSON: Dude, that would be you guys saying Joe Biden was a good candidate. If you want to talk about falling in line to its spine, you guys told us that Joe Biden was like sane and mentally competent when he clearly wasn't and lied to the American people and then covered up being competent.
So like don't lecture me about like more (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Joe Biden was a disaster. And you guys covered it up and looked in the cameras. All of the Democrats said, he is -- he runs laps around me. He's on his A game. He's so good at this. And then you want to sit here and say that like man, I wish he's Republicans (INAUDIBLE).
AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: And Trump's fallen --
BLOW: I don't know what this is about, so I'm going to (INAUDIBLE). I've been screaming. I'm just going to talk to you and say this. The spines disappeared.
FERGUSON: Of Democrats with Joe Biden.
BLOW: The spines disappeared and he doesn't want to acknowledge that.
FERGUSON: You guys (INAUDIBLE) of Biden's sane.
BLOW: They were -- they are cowards. They are cowards. The people -- even the people who speak up for him are cowards because they don't even have the (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
CAROLINE DOWNEY, COLUMNIST, NATIONAL REVIEW: I would actually argue the opposite with the topic at hand, which is this $2 billion fund is that I think Trump should remember that there's still fiscal conservatives among some of the lawmakers in -- in Congress. And so --
FERGUSON: What was the debt?
DOWNEY: They look at a $1.8 billion price tag, they do cringe. But I think what's missing from that discourse about this fund is the fact that there's an existing mechanism for it. It's called the Judgment Fund. The founding fathers even used it during the early days of the republic.
Basically, if someone is victorious in a lawsuit against the federal government, there has to be a fund to pay them out a settlement.
And so what this anti-weaponization fund that the left is fear mongering about right now is really is a derivation of that existing mechanism.
Now, what -- there was --
BLOW: No, it's the bastardization of it.
DOWNEY: There's what's missing from this?
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: It is a bastardization of it.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: And where was the -- where are the fiscal conservatives when they were blowing the deficit with this Big Beautiful Bill that was going to add trillions of dollars to the deficit? Where are they then?
I just want to figure out how this works out for you.
DOWNEY: Well, the opportunity cost there was, well, the 2017 tax cuts actually generated real wage increases for many Americans' household income growth and so that was what was going to be earned at the end of passing that -- that bill.
BLOW: It also -- it also --it also cost the treasury $1.5 trillion in lost revenue.
DOWNEY: And it also generated a lot of gains for the average American.
BLOW: What was the price tag on it?
CROSS: Who were the average Americans who got it?
BLOW: Listen, we -- you know the price tag when it's off.
CROSS: Thousands of American now can't afford to live. SO the big pays here --
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Hang on, hang on, hang on. One at a time.
FERGUSON: Like are you saying you're against no tax on tips and no tax on overtime?
CROSS: I'm saying Americans can't afford their bills.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: I'm saying that's how we did that. We did --
Blow: That is not why you did that. (CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: We did that to make sure (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
CROSS: You're also cutting funds at rural hospitals.
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: OK. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
Terry, I want to get to you. And I want to --
TERRY MORAN, VETERAN JOURNALIST: Well, I got a little fact check.
DEAN: Yes.
MORAN: The Judgment Fund was de minimis. Until the 1950s there had to be a vote of Congress for every dime that was spent out of the treasury. They then enlarged that -- that Judgment Fund.
Obama used it in an -- in an -- in an even bigger way. And this is a complete bastardization of it. It is not an -- an early American notion that the president can spend money without congressional approval.
(CROSSTALK)
[22:10:05]
DOWNEY: I'm saying it's Dems do that. I agree. I agree there is to be congressional approval, but it does stem from something that really exists.
FERGUSON: Let's -- let's be clear about one thing about the fund. Number one, it's not going to pass right now the way it is.
MORAN: Good.
FERGUSON: There's a lot of -- there's a lot of --
DEAN: Well, the Senate Republicans came out today and said --
FERGUSON: There's a lot of Senate Republicans, some that I've talked to that have said, it is going to be changed if it's going to happen.
DEAN: Yes.
FERGUSON: That's the reason why it didn't happen over the weekend. So I do think this is part of how the sausage is made.
Let's also be clear, if you are violent, you don't get money from this. If you're -- if I am (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK) FERGUSON: -- and the Trump administration doesn't -- and the Trump family doesn't get anything from this.
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Yes. Hang on. I got to fact check that. Hang on, hang on.
BLOW: That's not true. That's not true.
Ben, I got to fact check that. Because we don't know yet.
FERGUSON: No. The DOJ put out a list and they said that they don't get (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Yes. No, the Trump family doesn't get anything.
FERGUSON: -- (INAUDIBLE) reward from this and they cannot make claims to it.
DEAN: No, no. Not the Trump family part. I'm talking about, if you were violent against police, and what we have right now is that Todd Blanche told Paula Reid last night, it's going to go to this committee and that they're going to pick -- the president's going to pick and -- and Congress will have approval of one of five. And the president can fire any of them at any time. And those are the people who will --
FERGUSON: Blanche was talking to members of Congress today --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: -- and has made it very clear to them, if you are someone who is convicted and you are violent --
BLOW: Well --
FERGUSON: OK. If you're a violent.
BLOW: You remember before the election when they said that -- that the pardons would not go to violent people as well and then (INAUDIBLE) --
CROSS: All the violent people got out.
BLOW: -- all of the -- all of them got pardoned?
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: I go back to Congress.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: No, no. Congress. I go back.
BLOW: You have amnesia. FERGUSON: It's not amnesia. I just said and, and I'll say it again, the Senate, those that are Republicans have made it clear the way that it stands, it will have three things clearly in it. Number one, if you're violent, you don't get money. Number two, the -- the Trump family's already made this clear in the settlement, they will not get money and won't get a settlement. And they can't make claim.
(CROSSTALK)
DOWNEY: We don't know what (INAUDIBLE). It's not just about -- it's not just about --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: It's not a slush fund. If you want to get -- if you're wrongfully - if you're wrongfully attacked --
MORAN: Wait, wait.
FERGUSON: Hold on. This is (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Hang. Terry, go ahead.
MORAN: Thirty-five hundred, 700 charge. These are the worst of the worst. These are people who went to the Capitol with the --
FERGUSON: But I know pause.
MORAN: Wait (INAUDIBLE).
FERGUSON: They're not all that. They were not all that.
MORAN: I'm got -- 700.
FERGUSON: 76-year-old women.
DEAN: Hang on.
MORAN: And the reason they were the worst of the worst is because they went there with a worst motive a citizen of a democracy can have. They went to silence the vote of the people as confirmed and affirmed by the 50 sovereign states of this country and by 60 courts of law, and they wanted to stop that. And they were the worst --
FERGUSON: If you're a seventy -- let me ask you.
MORAN: Of those -- all right.
DEAN: OK. Ben, go ahead.
FERGUSON: If you're 75, 76, 77, 78-year-old woman --
BLOW: By who?
DOWNEY: Stay at home.
BLOW: By who?
FERGUSON: Whow, whoa, what happened to being a free country?
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: you can't walk (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Wow.
BLOW: You are (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: I'm telling you (INAUDIBLE).
DEAN: Hang on. Hang on.
FERGUSON: Stay home.
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Everyone.
BLOW: I'm telling you doing (INAUDIBLE).
FERGUSON: You have no word in America and American Capitol.
DOWNEY: (INAUDIBLE) you can't change the vote of those have already casted.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: If the door was open -- if the door was open --
BLOW: (INAUDIBLE) open yours. (INAUDIBLE).
FERGUSON: I'm asking -- I'm asking a very serious question.
BLOW: No, you're not asking a serious question.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Were there -- were there doors open on January (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: I'm going to call -- OK. I got to call it. You can't walk -- you cannot just walk into the Capitol. I covered it. You have to go through a metal detector.
That being said, we have much more to discuss and it's going to be lively, so that's good. We -- we -- we have a lot more. Up next, more breaking news tonight. U.S. intelligence showing Iran is rebuilding its military faster than expected, which undercuts a lot of the president's claims. We're going to dig into that.
Plus, what did Democrats blame their 2024 loss on? The controversial autopsy of their faults is leaked and the party is livid. We'll discuss that as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:17]
DEAN: Tonight, we're learning just how quickly Iran has been able to rebuild its military capabilities during this six-week ceasefire. Sources telling CNN, it's much faster than initially estimated.
They say Iran restarted productions for key weapon systems and have worked to replace missile sites. A U.S. official telling CNN, quote, the Iranians have exceeded all timelines the intelligence community had for reconstitution.
Adding that Iran could fully reconstitute its drone attack capability in as soon as six months. The new report calls into question claims about the extent to which U.S. Israeli strikes have degraded Iran's military in the long-term, but today, President Trump insisted everything is under control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have total control of the Strait of Hormuz, as you know, with our blockade. The blockade's been 100 percent effective. Nobody's been able to get through it. It's like a steel wall. It's our Navy.
We have the greatest military anywhere in the world. We wiped out the their Navy. We knocked -- wiped out the air -- I think they're down to about, I would say we knocked out 85 percent of their missile capacity. It's very hard for them now to build missiles, to build drones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: And -- and again, we're coming back to the table. Those drones and -- and being able to reestablish those capabilities, obviously, really a very scary situation for that whole region and the neighbors that those drones could go after should active military engagement start up again.
But, Terry, the president is now in -- in this war that -- that he -- even some Republicans have said, he didn't make the case properly to Americans. There are people on Capitol Hill, obviously, a lot of Democrats, some Republicans as well, who believe he now needs congressional approval because he's crossed over the 60 days.
[22:20:07]
The Trump administration says they don't because it's a ceasefire and it doesn't count, but where -- where is the administration on this? And -- and -- and where do they go from here?
MORAN: Well, Trump's in the war, but he and the administration are heading for the high grass. He wants out. He wants out for all kinds of reasons because they're -- the only choice to actually win this war, right now strategically, Iran has more authority over that region.
And already, and the tell on that is that South Korea and other countries that depend on oil from -- from the Persian Gulf, they are already doing side agreements with Iran, acknowledging that Iran is the master of those waters.
He has strengthened Iran. He has strengthened Ayatollahs. He's no -- the reason Netanyahu is furious is because he knows Trump is going to walk away. And Israel will be in more danger at the end of the Abraham Accords and -- and Israel is going to be in more danger than ever before, because Trump doesn't have the stomach for it. It was a blunder to begin with and -- and it's -- a -- it's -- the only choice is go in there.
They're not going to get the (INAUDIBLE).
DOWNEY: How can you say that though? How can you say that Israel is fearing of a basically rebounding Iran --
MORAN: Yes.
DOWNEY: -- when it's a show --
CROSS: Because they're watching it happen right now.
MORAN: It's not a show.
DOWNEY: It's a show of its former self.
CROSS: It's not. What (INAUDIBLE) that?
DOWNEY: Don't take it from Trump. Don't take it from Trump. Take it from the commander of CENTCOM, Admiral Cooper, who testified to doubt the report that we are talking about right now because it's provided by a lot of these sources (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
MORAN: I'm not talking about stuff that got blown up. I'm not talking about --
CROSS: Facts on the ground show us that Trump is lying (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
DOWNEY: The Navy. The Navy.
DEAN: All right. Hang on, hang on.
(CROSSTALK) MORAN: The Navy was 50 years old (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Hold on. Hold on. I want to --
DOWNEY: The Air Force is gone.
DEAN: I would say clip -- I would say clip Caroline mentioned Brad Cooper. This is what he said on Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADM. BRAD COOPER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Operation Epic Fury significantly degraded Iran's ballistic missiles and drones while destroying 90 percent of their defense industrial base, ensuring that Iran cannot reconstitute for years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: OK. So that is what you're referring to and that's what we're hearing from Admiral Brad Cooper who is the commander of U.S. Central Command.
But this reporting that CNN has from intelligence officials and U.S. officials saying that the Iranians have exceeded all timelines and are, in fact, rebuilding.
FERGUSON: Of course, they're going to rebuild. That's what -- I mean, why would they not try? But I do think it's interesting you act like this is a massive failure blunder, because you said like they're in control.
The top level guys are all dead, so they're not in control.
MORAN: you're talking about the regime.
FERGUSON: Hold on.
MORAN: Ask the Iranians if they have regime change, they have.
FERGUSON: The second level, they're all dead, so they're not in charge (INAUDIBLE).
The third level has -- has been killed. So --
MORAN: Yes, that's a line.
FERGUSON: No, no, it's not.
CROSS: With all of those -- with all of those (INAUDIBLE).
FERGUSON: So, now, we're the fourth and the fifth level. And now you're saying this has been a disaster.
MORAN: No, no. Who controls the Strait of Hormuz? FERGUSON: Again, I think the U.S. is clearly running the --
MORAN: Ask the Japanese (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: So you think that Iran is in charge of everything over there and we're somehow
MORAN: Who's doing deals with Iran? Who's doing deals?
FERGUSON: Are they doing deals? Are they having conversations? There's a big difference.
MORAN: They're -- they're desperate because they cut off their oil for months.
FERGUSON: This is -- this is the part that makes me laugh about -- about -- there's so much oil over there right now that is held back. They're desperate to sell in that part of the world because of what's happened in the Strait, number one.
So they're not in control because they were. That would be free flowing.
MORAN: Why (INAUDIBLE) side with Iran?
FERGUSON: Because they're desperate to get rid of capacity. They're trying to do anything to get some cash coming in.
And if you're -- if everything is in control the way you are, you don't have to do side deals. You would just have it open and flow like it was before the war.
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: OK.
FERGUSON: Disappoint about the president. The president made it clear. Iran is not going to get a nuclear weapon. That's number one.
MORAN: How is he going to do that?
BLOW: (INAUDIBLE) for sure.
FERGUSON: Number two.
MORAN: How is he going to ensure that, protections?
FERGUSON: He said he's made it -- as long as he's president of the United States of America, I have no doubt (INAUDIBLE).
MORAN: Where's the AGU? Where's the (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
DOWNEY: That's just the raw materials, but the capacity has been decimated. And that takes a long time to rebuild.
FERGUSON: Do you really believe that Iran is sitting back right now? Five levels deep of dead guys and going, man, we're really in charge right now. Like we are kicking America's evil effort.
CROSS: Yes, I absolutely think that they are. That's the way they're doing all the way.
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Why -- why do you think that? Why do you think that?
CROSS: Because every bit of capability or insult that we've had has proven itself to be faulty. And that's either because there is a miscommunication or somebody's straight line.
At the end of the day, we're spending a billion dollars plus a day in a war that we aren't --
FERGUSON: Give me an example of where a faulty -- everything's been faulty. Give me an example of that.
MORAN: We say they've knocked out their missile capacity, they have 70 percent still.
CROSS: They said that they totally annihilated it. That came from the president of the United States. He went on a PR telling us he annihilated something, he absolutely did not.
FERGUSON: So you think that Iran is --
CROSS: They didn't wake up one morning and all of a sudden rebuild their entire nuclear capacity.
FERGUSON: You believe that Iran --
CROSS: He lied about eradicating it.
FERGUSON: So you -- you believe that Iran right now is exactly as powerful as they were.
MORAN: No, no.
CROSS: I never said that. What I said was that they are not (INAUDIBLE).
MORAN: And strategically, they're more powerful. Because now they know they can charge a toll for every ounce of oil that comes out of the place where God made all the dinosaurs die and all the oil.
FERGUSON: OK. Hold on. Hold on. Whoa.
MORAN: So they're going to make money to rebuild their nuclear program.
CROSS: And Trump right now -- and Trump right now (INAUDIBLE) to walk away from his.
(CROSSTALK)
[22:25:05]
DOWNEY: You're making a good case of regime change.
FERGUSON: And someone that has no military -- and someone that has no Air Force -- and someone that has no -- no boats in the water that are at large and incapacitated their Navy.
MORAN: They never had (INAUDIBLE).
FERGUSON: OK. So -- so you're saying a regime that has a joke of a navy is now more powerful than the U.S.
MORAN: And 70 percent of its (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: I want to let -- hang on. We haven't heard from Charles. We haven't heard from Charles. Go ahead, Charles.
MORAN: Ask Qatar how the missile (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: Yes. So, listen, first of all, I'm going to be (INAUDIBLE) in this ear by the time Ben is finished with all these (INAUDIBLE).
FERGUSON: Go get you a good doctor. You're fine.
BLOW: It is ridiculous. But the -- the problem here is that what the -- the battle -- another battle on the planet that's showing us right now, which is between Ukraine and Russia, is showing you is that might doesn't always do it.
We have reporting now that Ukraine, not only have they held out for this long period of time, they are now making advances. And -- and the -- the big power can get tired. They don't have enough -- they can't recruit enough. They -- you know, they don't have the -- the same skin in the game as a person who is -- a country that's trying to survive.
And what you have with Iran is a country that's trying to survive.
DEAN: And the experts I talk to, they talk a lot about asymmetrical warfare. And -- and that's something I've had to learn about as not a military expert, but just that that is a -- it's a different playing field than -- than what the U.S. has been used to in -- in the past.
BLOW: Especially if you have a president who's -- you've done -- you've bombed 10 countries before, you now have an eye on Cuba. You're not -- you're a (INAUDIBLE) and you're not even there.
(CROSSTALK)
DOWNEY: He's right --
BLOW: You're not even there.
DOWNEY: He's right that this is -- this is a regime that is flailing. They are desperate for survival so much so that they are executing its own citizens, protesters in the streets --
BLOW: Absolutely.
DOWNEY: -- in the thousands.
BLOW: Absolutely.
DOWNEY: Because they're crashing out --
FERGUSON: But they're totally in control. But they're totally in control there.
DOWNEY: But they're totally in control.
FERGUSON: They are.
DOWNEY: Listen --
BLOW: They're not. They're not the same.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: They're teetering.
BLOW: You are -- you are right up to a point.
(CROSSTALK)
DOWNEY: You're right that they have (INAUDIBLE).
BLOW: You are right up to a point and then --
DOWNEY: You're right that they have --
BLOW: You're right up to a point. I was agreeing with you up to a point when you were saying that they are horrible people. That doesn't make the leap between -- and they're also in total control. That's not -- that's not a -- that's not what they need to be.
DOWNEY: The only thing they understand is force.
BLOW: They don't need to be in total control.
DOWNEY: The only thing they understand is force.
BLOW: All they have to do -- all they have to do is to survive.
For them, winning is survival. That's all.
FERGUSON: So the America does nothing? DOWNEY: The ayatollah is dead. The ayatollah's son probably is dead. So now we have the Revolutionary Guards in place.
BLOW: Do you understand how voice work? Do you understand how powerful voice work? You kill someone, a worse person. Very likely. Go into the (INAUDIBLE).
DOWNEY: No, you're right. You're -- you're making a good case for regime change. That's what you're (INAUDIBLE).
CROSS: He's making a better one that Donald Trump did.
BLOW: I'm not going to (INAUDIBLE) no case.
FERGUSON: Hold on. Let me ask a question.
BLOW: Still hasn't made a case.
DOWNEY: However --
BLOW: Or anything.
DOWNEY: -- it's still it's true that the regime is very neutered in its current form, and that Israel is breathing a sigh --
BLOW: How do you know that (INAUDIBLE)? I'm darn curious as to how you know.
DOWNEY: Because we know that the Navy has been basically (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
DOWNEY: The Air Force is hero.
BLOW: You've got the regime. I'm not talking about the military. I'm talking about the regime.
DOWNEY: Oh, the military apparatus. I mean, it's minimal now. Most of the leadership is on (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: You said the regime is (INAUDIBLE). I'm -- I'm very curious as to how you can verify that the regime --
DOWNEY: Because they keep killing its leaders.
FERGUSON: They keep killing the first, second, third, and fourth ones in charge.
(CROSSTALK)
CROSS: The regime has multiple tentacles.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: A lot of these still like (INAUDIBLE) Strait of Hormuz. Get the regime.
DEAN: OK. We got to a call --
DOWNEY: That's -- that's the only piece leverage they have. Yes.
BLOW: So, who is it then? Then you said they've killed everybody. So, who is in control?
DOWNEY: Not everybody, but they certainly are -- they're going after one by one.
BLOW: Did you know who's in control?
DOWNEY: The Revolutionary Guards is in control.
MORAN: If you ask the people -- yes, the IRGC (INAUDIBLE).
DOWNEY: Which is always then, by the way, in appendage of the regime, but nonetheless.
BLOW: So -- so they are in control. You just said that they were out of control.
DOWNEY: OK. I do believe but --
DEAN: All right. We are not going to (INAUDIBLE) Iran tonight at this stable, but we have talked about it a lot. Thank you.
Unedited and unfinished. The Democratic autopsy is finally public. And what's not in it is getting more criticism than what -- and then what's in it. We're going to talk more about that, next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, these are the quotes, incomplete, fumbled, gobbledygook, bullshit, a fiasco. After announcing he would not release Democrats' hotly anticipated autopsy report on the 2024 election, after being confronted by CNN, DNC Chairman Ken Martin did just that.
This morning, Martin released an unedited version of the report written by Democratic strategist Paul Rivera, and now some Democrats are calling for his resignation. In a statement, Martin stressed the report does not meet his standards, and a disclaimer reads it does not reflect the views of the DNC.
The autopsy accuses the Biden administration of not doing more to boost Harris and analyzes why she underperformed in the states where she lost. But a lot of the outrage surrounding this report has to do with what it omits, absent from the takeaways or mentions of Joe Biden's age and decision to run again, the lack of a nominating process for Kamala Harris, and how the administration's handling of the war in Gaza impacted Democrats in states like Michigan. Rivera declined CNN's request for comment on the report, and following its publication today, according to a source, he is no longer with the DNC.
We're going to go back to our table now. So as we've read about all of this today, and the reporting was coming out, there's the report itself and what it says and what it doesn't say, et cetera.
And then there's kind of the chaos around the report being released and not released, and was it going to be released? And there are other smaller buckets all around it.
[22:35:01]
Ameshia, I'll start with you. What do you think about where Democrats stand today with this autopsy now in full public view?
AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Well, the autopsy couldn't have been rolled out any sloppier than it was.
I said this on this network before. I thought that Ken Martin should have released it months ago when they had it. The back and forth about when it was going to be released, the delay, and then finally owning up to it and releasing it, it leaves a lot to be desired.
The things that we learned from that release today were the things most of us already knew. The questions that people had were regarding some of the bigger issues around the influence of the war in Gaza. Did that actually have anything to do with some of the other losses? We knew that there were some financial foils.
We also knew that Kamala Harris should have invested more and should have campaigned more in some of the more rural districts instead of focusing so heavily on the urban ones as well.
Nothing from this report was extremely surprising, I would argue, except the weird mention of the fact that there was a belief that Biden should have essentially mentored her, strengthened her more to run, which was just odd because up until he decided that he wasn't running, he was the nominee. He was the person who was going up for re-elect. So where would that time frame have even happened?
Also, that's not necessarily the role of the current President of any structure. I don't think that Trump is right now preparing his successor either. So that's just not how this system works.
The DNC has 99 problems. I don't think that this is the biggest one of them.
BEN FERGUSON, PODCAST HOST, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": I would agree with that.
CAROLINE DOWNEY, COLUMNIST, "NATIONAL REVIEW": I also think on the Biden point, I think what it meant was what we all knew to be true, which is that Biden clearly kept Kamala Harris at arm's length, clearly didn't want her in a lot of big level decisions.
CROSS: He tweeted her like everybody has ever tweeted their Vice President.
DOWNEY: I would say that Trump has nurtured that relationship quite well.
CROSS: The most powerful Vice President the nation has ever seen was Dick Cheney because the Vice President's goal is not to be the person in charge, it's not to create their own policy plan.
DOWNEY: There's such contentious competition potentially between Rubio and J.D. Vance because he's kind of supported both of them and the jury's still out on which one is going to be.
CROSS: I think we're forgetting Harris. We're forgetting what the role of the people is.
DEAN: I do want to keep it on the Democrats for a second. I do want to go back to the report for a second because, again, part of the running reporting on the autopsy -- of the autopsy, and this is interesting, among those not included in interviews to put together all of this information.
The list goes on and on. I'll just read you the top, but Biden, Harris, Walz, Mike Donilon, Anita Dunn, Steve Ricchetti, Bruce Reed, it goes on and on from there in terms of staffers who were very close to all of this.
To put together something like this.
FERGUSON: Let's just be clear, it was a dumpster fire. This thing, it was almost like you threw up on a page and then you added more pages while you had COVID and then you got the flu and then you were dehydrated and you just kept typing.
And then you just said, oh wait, that's too offensive. I can't say that Joe Biden's cognitive decline was part of the reason why he lost the election and Kamala Harris kind of sucked as a candidate, so we'll just admit all of that, and then we'll say Joe Biden didn't mentor enough.
The dude didn't know what he was doing as the President. Why are you thinking he's going to mentor Kamala Harris?
I think the big takeaway from this is if you're a Democratic donor, you need to ask a lot more questions of the Democratic Party before you ever write a check.
CROSS: I think they already are if you're paying attention to the DNC fundraising.
I agree, but I'm talking about pure politics here. I'm talking about Democratic voters.
TERRY MORAN, VETERAN JOURNALIST: This is not an autopsy. That's a buzzword. It's a failure report and they failed at releasing the failure report and they failed for reasons.
They admitted the biggest failures.
They failed for reasons that go to the heart of the problem they have this year. Donald Trump is in the dumps in the polls and Democrats are barely above him. Why? Because they can't even tell the truth to themselves about why they lost.
They can't be straight and people sense that and they won't trust them.
DEAN: I want to play a clip from Senator Brian Schatz about kind of how he viewed all of this. I just want to see what you all think. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BRIAN SCHATZ (D-HI): It's not exactly explosive. I think the explosive part was the implication that they were hiding something. It's not an amazing report. It doesn't give me many insights into the path forward, but that was sort of my, if there were excellent things in it, then we should hear about it.
And if it's not a very good report that we paid for, well, at least we should publish the results. And I think this thing goes away in a half a day now that it's not a secret anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: You're nodding, Charles.
CHARLES BLOW, LANGSTON HUGHES FELLOW, HARVARD UNIVERSITY, AND SUBSTACK AUTHOR, "BLOW THE STACK": Listen, history already wrote the autopsy.
We're a year and a half out. Reporters have poured over this, dug over this. People have released books.
There's nothing new to learn. In the first three months or so, there is something to learn. Do you want to know what the party thinks, what they think they got wrong?
That adds to the reporters, whatever. At this point, it's a nothing. There's no there.
There's no news in it. I can't find any news in this thing whatsoever.
[22:40:04]
Kamala Harris already wrote a book saying she didn't feel supported. The report now says that they should have supported her more. I don't see the news in this at all.
It's great to have it, and it's weird that you're trying to hide it, because at this point, what are you hiding?
CROSS: I think it could have been a lot more straightforward, though. I honestly just don't care. They don't care about this autopsy. They have moved on. How many
election cycles have we had since 2024 at this point? The thing that is on voters' minds, Democrat, Republican, everywhere in between, is affordability.
They are not sitting around trying to figure out how Kamala Harris lost in 2024.
DEAN: I do wonder. We talk about it because we're here, and we're on cable news, and we all follow politics, and it is interesting for all of those reasons, but if you're an American voter, do you really--
FERGUSON: It's not about the American voter as much as if you don't learn why you lost as a party, and you don't have takeaways of what you could have done better, and you don't know what the issues are that the American people don't trust you on, then the disaster, and why I read it and laughed, is the fact that I don't think the Democratic party as a whole has learned anything.
Go back to your point a moment ago. If you're a Democratic party, you should probably be doing a little better than you are right now.
CROSS: How many wins have Democrats had since 2024? Well, in off-year elections, how many wins have they had?
FERGUSON: I'm saying overall. I'm talking about overall.
If you think that you guys are killing it right now, great. I hope you keep with this mindset going in the midterms, but make it a lot easier for guys like me.
I'm fine with that. You guys learned nothing, and you're saying you're more than--
DOWNEY: You're right, though, that there hasn't been a proper mea culpa still from the Democratic party, so if they cruise into midterm success, it will be accidental--
BLOW: A mea culpa for what?
FERGUSON: For a massive loss?
DOWNEY: It will be the coach wrong in his--
CROSS: Mea culpa.
DEAN: We've got to wind it down, Terry. Last word.
MORAN: A lot of Democratic voters are wondering, what is the Democrats' position on Gaza? What is the Democrats' position on trans issues? You've got to be straight. Whatever it is, be straight.
CROSS: Democratic voters are wondering what the position is and how they're going to be able to afford rent tomorrow, what's going to happen with the jobs crisis, what is going to happen with child care. Those are their top concerns, and anything that moves beyond that, I think that you are just throwing caution at the wind. At this point, affordability is the driving lane, and that is the conversation that Americans are having.
That is the only conversation they're having.
DEAN: All right, the midterms will tell the tale, as somebody said here on this table.
Stephen Colbert says goodnight in his last episode and the franchise finale of "The Late Show." What really drove that cancellation? We'll debate that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DEAN: Tonight, Stephen Colbert bids farewell to "The Late Show," closing out his run of more than a decade in what will be the franchise's finale after more than 30 years on the air. Is the show's demise a business decision or a political one?
Ticket holders who lined up ahead of tonight's taping shared their thoughts on the cancellation. Here's what they said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSHUA MCGEHEE, VISITING FROM COLORADO: It's heartbreaking to see how one man can silence a whole nation. When Colbert can be silenced for being critical, it puts everyone at tension to be themselves and to speak their minds.
GRANT PLOTKIN, NEW YORKER: I think he's changed the format for late night in a lot of positive ways and really elevated the conversation. The industry is shifting, and so I think that has to be accounted for, but I do think it feels unceremonious in nature.
ALAN TIPERT, VISITING FROM GEORGIA: I came all the way up from the deep south to come witness the death of free speech. Everybody knows you don't cancel the number one show in late night because it's not making money.
You do it because you don't like what he's saying. It just doesn't make sense. It's 11 million followers are going to sit on fire.
REPORTER: So CBS cited financial reasons for the cancellation, but it sounds like you don't buy that.
TIPERT: It just doesn't pass the smell test.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: And so that is kind of at the heart of this question. Is it a political decision? Is it a business decision? CBS had said it was financial. Those shows, obviously, we live in a very different world than 30
years ago, and those shows are very expensive to produce and have schedules that are very different than what T.V. is about now.
At the same time, obviously, the FCC chairman has been quite outspoken against Stephen Colbert and a number of T.V. networks. Trump settled with Paramount in this lawsuit with around 60 minutes. So there are a lot of components to this.
FERGUSON: They lost money. Part of me laughs at the idea that this got canceled because of Trump. No, it got canceled because the dynamics of late night T.V. have changed.
The audience is significantly smarter. They weren't making money on it.
The second thing is this. You alienated half the country every night, and you lost half the audience you needed.
Leno and Letterman were not angry, mean, liberal guys yelling at Republicans. We stopped watching because it sucked.
[22:50:02]
BLOW: Part of the authoritarian ethos is that God shall not be mocked. And they often go after comedians. They often go after people who mock them, and that is what Trump has done, and he has encouraged the entire apparatus of the government to go after people who mock him.
Now, are there financial concerns? You can stop for a second.
Financial concerns, times have changed. All that may be true, but you cannot divorce the fact that the President himself has been on a rampage against these comedians because he wants them off the air and has said as much.
DOWNEY: The most illustrative and indicting example that this was a financial and creative decision rather than a political one is that Stephen Colbert had a bunch of his late night buddies on to argue the affirmative case for late night television.
Not a single one of them used the word comedy in their response. Seth Meyers even said the purpose of late night T.V. is actually to impress and inform foreign leaders.
Like what? They've lost the plot that badly. They haven't been funny in such a long time.
BLOW: You started by saying it was a financial--
DOWNEY: "Daily Show"--
BLOW: How did that prove your point about finance?
DOWNEY: Because they weren't funny, and also, and they weren't funny, and that's why they lost a million viewers of Stephen Colbert's show in under 10 years.
BLOW: So because you didn't laugh, they're not funny.
FERGUSON: No, you can laugh at wherever he shows up next, but it is not going to be on CBS.
DOWNEY: A 40 percent drop in advertisement revenue, you think that's insignificant?
BLOW: No, I'm just trying to say, you're saying that they're not funny.
CROSS: They're not. That's subjective.
BLOW: What does that even mean?
DOWNEY: I'm sorry, Johnny Carson never weighed into politics on that show 30 years ago.
FERGUSON: He was also the god of late night.
DOWNEY: Yes, he was.
BLOW: I want to stop you. She just said that Carson never weighed into politics. That is absolutely not right.
DEAN: I want to bring in one more element to this, which is the FCC chair, Brendan Carr, and we have a slew of headlines that just kind of give you a snapshot of what the last year and a half has brought, but this administration is aggressively going after television networks and media organizations.
Is that the appropriate thing?
MORAN: No. It can be both. Okay, there's no question that Trump-- God shall not be mocked and he's got a henchman who's willing to use the power of the government in ways that have not been done before.
As far as 50 percent of the country watching any program, it doesn't happen anymore.
Wait.
The last point I want to make is it can be both. Of course it's financial, but Colbert gave something that these older networks cannot buy, and that's virality. Was it in MAGA's socials? No, but it was everywhere else.
And watch CBS try to do that again. He caught the wave of tomorrow's media.
DOWNEY: But why do you think his successor is explicitly apolitical? The successor to Stephen Colbert's show is explicitly not a political show. Why do you think that is?
CROSS: He's not explicitly not a political show. DOWNEY: The majority of guests on Stephen Colbert's show were
Democrats, not Republicans.
FERGUSON: When?
DOWNEY: Come on.
CROSS: It was for a lack of an invite.
FERGUSON: That's a lie. That is an absolute lie.
I work with Ted Cruz all the time. He used to do all the shows.
DEAN: We got to leave it there.
We got to leave it there. I will say, he did often say that he had invited Republicans on, and they had not agreed to come on at--
FERGUSON: On the Talarico.
DEAN: I'm talking about Talarico, I remember that.
All right, up next, the panel gives us their nightcap, the hooky edition when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DEAN: Today, President Trump said he'll likely be skipping his son Don Jr.'s wedding this weekend because it's not good timing. So for tonight's news nightcap, what's your best excuse to get out of a family event?
We're going to go around the table. Caroline, you get to go first.
DOWNEY: I missed a family birthday party because I had to study for a test. It was a big family party.
DEAN: But this was real. It wasn't made up.
DOWNEY: Actually, this happened multiple times. I always would say, I have to study for a test. I can't make it.
FERGUSON: Did you really study?
DOWNEY: Yes.
FERGUSON: Okay, all right, let's check it.
DEAN: She's just an A student. Ameshia?
CROSS: I never made anything up. I am a fully autonomous adult who's been paying my own bills since I was 18. So unless you are somebody whose name is on a lease I have or also on
another bill, then I don't owe you an excuse. If I say I'm not coming, I'm not coming. That's pretty good.
DEAN: All right, Terry?
MORAN: Well, if it's your son, you should go to his wedding. But I've got nine brothers and sisters, so going to all of their kids' weddings, then that is a built-in excuse.
DEAN: Yes, you'd rather not go broke is what you said. Charles?
BLOW: I also wouldn't go to Don Jr.'s wedding, even if I was his dad. He's a repugnant person. But mine is ambiguity.
I just say I can't make it. They can figure out if they feel like I'm busy or whatever. I'm just, I can't make it and I can't make it.
DEAN: I won't be there. Ben?
FERGUSON: It's the art of the deal. You got to like have a really good excuse. We had spring break. My sister, by the way, just got married, which is a big deal.
But it was like they got engaged and we're like, when's the date? And they're like, we're going to do it like at the lake in like, I think it was like eight or nine days.
[23:00:06]
I was like, we're on spring break. We'll figure this out.
I did go, but the rest of the family didn't. Like it was the quick hurry up.
BLOW: You can't even ask the softball question.
FERGUSON: No, that's like, but the family, short notice. But I was like, you take the whole family fast. It's pretty hard to do.
DEAN: All right. Well, so all right. For anyone out there looking for excuses, there are some options.
Thank you to all of you. We appreciate it.
And thank you for watching "NewsNight." You can stream the show anytime with an all access subscription in the CNN app or at cnn.com/watch. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
