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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Supreme Court Expands Trump's Power, Paves Way for Deportations; Trump's Conservative Critics are Getting Louder, Bolder. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Defends Progressivism Amidst the Sweep of Socialist Democrat Wins. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 25, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, he accused them of eating cats and dogs. Now, Donald Trump can start deporting hundreds of thousands of migrants after the Supremes expand his power.
Plus --
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, THE TUCKER CARLSON SHOW: Trump is very much, what'd you say? Shut up.
PHILLIP: -- are the president's conservative critics getting louder and bolder?
Also, AOC defends her brand of progressivism as Democrats worry about the rise of socialists.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I feel like it's deja vu all over again.
PHILLIP: And he's famous for dark thrillers, but Stephen King says the real goosebump is that it'll take 40 years for America to recover from MAGA.
Live at the table, Keith Boykin, Caroline Sunshine, Amanda Litman, Joe Borelli, Raul Reyes, and Patrick McEnroe.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP: Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Tonight, the White House is celebrating a pair of major Supreme Court victories that expand the president's power on immigration, and it clears the way for him to continue his crackdown. The first decision allows the Trump administration to end temporary protected status for foreign nationals from countries like Haiti or Syria. Millions may soon be eligible for deportation, and hundreds of thousands could lose their work authorization they receive under the program, which was meant to help people fleeing war or disaster in their home country.
Now, separately, the justices ruled that the White House can revive a controversial policy that allows officials to block asylum seekers entering the U.S. southern border. The decision drew a scathing dissent from Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who warned more people will die as a result.
The policy began under President Obama, was ended by President Biden, and now, with its return under Trump 2.0, here's how the White House's deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, sums it up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: I think the most important point is that this administration, on the asylum point, is we've implemented international agreements all over the world to take in our asylum seekers. So, America's doors are closed fully to asylum seekers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That statement, I think, encapsulates exactly how Stephen Miller sees the world, what he's wanted to do for a long time. But at the same time, asylum still is in the law, right, like it is still a legal process. And the court basically has given the Trump administration carte blanche to effectively shut it down, as Stephen Miller said.
RAUL REYES, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY AND ANALYST: Right. You know, when we look at these pair of cases, they're being presented, you know, in the media as well as a victory for the Trump administration. For me, it's not so much a victory for Trump or for this administration, it's a victory for executive power, and that's something that should make a lot of people nervous because the administration has basically been given permission from the highest court to dismantle critical parts of our immigration system.
But Congress set up our asylum process. Congress, bipartisan Congress, designed TPS. In my view, the Supreme Court is basically absolving, abdicating itself of its responsibilities under the Constitution to provide checks and balances to the other branches of government. They're acting as though there are only two branches of government.
And so when we talk about the administration, this administration wanting to end these programs, it's very problematic in terms of the consequences. But just from a legal framework, it is quite problematic because the administration admits that it did not follow the processes to end TPS. And with the asylum case, it's in a -- it's very questionable that the Supreme Court even took this case because those proceedings are not metering the turn-backs. That is not happening right now. So, it's, in a sense, a theoretical argument.
But this speaks to the incredible deference that this court has given to the Trump administration on immigration.
PHILLIP: Yes, on immigration and on a lot of other things. [22:05:00]
For the Haitians, however, this means that, you know, hundreds of thousands of them, if you take the entire pool of Haitians and Syrians together, it could be a million people are affected by this, could be stripped of their protective status, stripped of their work permits, and told to go home.
And, interestingly, here's what Mike DeWine, the governor of Ohio said. He says, the policy to remove these individuals from this country is a mistake. This also means that while these Haitians were working and contributing to our country, our community, and economy yesterday, today, it is now illegal to employ them.
So, he is sounding the alarm, and this is, by the way, the place. He calls out Springfield, Ohio. This is the place where J.D. Vance lied about Haitians eating cats and dogs, and he says they are a part of -- 10,000 of them, they're a part of this community now. They're taking on jobs. They're building the economy, and he just says it's the wrong policy.
CAROLINE SUNSHINE, DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP'S 2024 CAMPAIGN: Yes, it is, and so the court's decision is actually really good for Haiti as a country, as a sovereign nation because the first word in TPS is temporary. It's always supposed to be temporary, and specifically in regards to the Haitians who have come here.
The first batch came, I think, in 2010, after the earthquake in Haiti. It's been 16 years since the earthquake, so that's not temporary. And at what point, by American standards, are we going to decide that Haiti is livable again? When's that day coming? Is that coming in six months? Is that coming in a year? Probably not any time soon.
And one thing that doesn't get talked about is some of these TPS recipients, not all, but some, have been doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers who left Haiti. How is Haiti, as a nation, supposed to rebuild itself when we've brain drained a lot of their talent and planted them in Springfield, Ohio, where it's not fair to the residents of Springfield, Ohio, either? And as a nation, we are legally obligated to our own citizens before we're obligated to anybody else.
Springfield, Ohio, notice how the migrants are never -- they're never brought to Nantucket. They're never brought to Beverly Hills. They're never brought to Martha's Vineyard. They're never going to go compete with hedge fund bros who inherited the job from their dad. They're always going to be brought to Middle America, places like Springfield, Ohio, where they're going to have to compete with Americans for wages, depreciate those wages.
I'm sure, does anybody at this table, have you heard the name Aiden Clark, an 11-year-old boy? No? You guys don't know his name?
KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE: Here we go again.
SUNSHINE: 11-year-old boy killed by a Haitian immigrant under TPS with no American driver's license, who rammed his car into a bus, killed 11-year-old Aiden and injured 20 schoolchildren. Who is this good for? Not the Haitians. Not the American people.
BOYKIN: I love how they cherry-pick isolated cases and forget the fact that people who are immigrants actually commit fewer crimes than people who are residents in this country.
But getting back to the point of this discussion about Haiti, first of all, I'm so glad that you're concerned about Haiti right now and the alleged brain drain, but the U.S. State Department says -- would you let me speak? Because I let you speak. The U.S. State Department says that it's actually not safe for Americans to travel to Haiti right now. So, you want to dump these people into our country, where even our own State Department and the Trump administration says it's not safe.
But the larger problem is that this is a country that is now governed by a racist foreign policy and a racist immigration policy. At the same time, Stephen Miller is out here claiming that we don't we don't allow anybody, for him, into this country for asylum anymore. The doors are closed.
We're allowing white South Africans to come to this country. Those are the only people who can come to this country right now, white South Africans. But 350,000 Haitian Americans, who are Black, can't stay here even though they have been here, many of them for many years, they can't stay here. They're tax-paying people. They are law-abiding people. They are people who actually do jobs and create jobs. They're actually people who are doing jobs that some Americans don't want to do, like cleaning toilets in a hotel, Caroline.
Caroline, I love the way you -- Caroline, you're not the only person at the table. Just let other people speak. Just let me let you speak.
PHILLIP: Just a second. I will say he, he did let you finish your entire thought, so just let him finish his, please.
BOYKIN: So, I think the larger problem here is that we have an administration that is changing not only foreign policy, immigration policy, but changing the Republican Party. What Raul said a moment ago is really important. This is a bipartisan bill. This is a bipartisan legislation, the Immigration Act of 1990, signed by President George H.W. Bush, at the time when Republicans and Democrats used to agree that it was okay, that America actually believed in the principles of the Statue of Liberty, that we actually wanted to have people come here and seek asylum, or at least come here and to be able to live here if they knew that their conditions were not good in their own countries.
PHILLIP: The issue -- well, first of all I just want to note that, to your point, the State Department has a Level 4 warning for Haiti, Syria, and Somalia. It says, do not travel for U.S. citizens, and if you do travel, prepare a will. So, I think that tells you kind of everything you need to know about how they feel the situation is.
But on the issue of racism, that came up in the court decision, and Samuel Alito in his -- the majority opinion said, none of the cited statements by either the president or the secretary were overly, overtly racist, and in substance all expressed policy views that could rest on race-neutral justifications.
[22:10:12]
Elena Kagan, she hit back and said, the evidence they have offered includes statements by the president so repellent and racially infected, that the majority declines to put them in print. These statements fairly shout in their racial undertones and overtones alike, that race entered into the president's resolve to remove Haitians from this country.
BOYKIN: Can I just mention some of those comments?
PHILLIP: So, when he called Haitians or Haiti a shit hole country, that -- I mean, I think that's what a lot of people -- what's one of the many statements that make a lot of people believe that there is racial animus at play here.
JOE BORELLI, FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: Well, I mean, you're making it about race. Keith's making it about race. That was precisely the argument that the Supreme Court said was not the proper one. Yes, the legislation for TPS was a bipartisan bill from 40 years ago, but it gave the secretary of Homeland Security extreme policy oversight in determining who gets TPS or who loses it.
In this case, we've litigated this. We had an election, right? President Trump, you pointed out, he said some pretty mean things. We litigated this debate during the election, and the American people chose to have a more restrictive anti-immigration policy. That's just the fact.
The American public put Donald Trump in place. He is now implementing policies that you may not agree with, but the American people elected. And it's not just Haiti. So, we keep focusing on this racial thing. It's about all 13 countries that -- who temporary protective status have recently come up for renewal, that he has pushed to withdraw or deny.
BOYKIN: The reason why we focus on Haiti is because Haiti is the issue that involves race most directly. That's -- it's equal protection issue under the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. He said -- he called -- he actually said these countries, he said, Haiti's a shit hole country. He said, they're poisoning the blood of this country. He said, they're bringing AIDS to this country. He accused Haitian immigrants of eating people's pets and dogs in this country.
BORELLI: You're citing emotions.
BOYKIN: That's what Donald -- Donald Trump said that.
BORELLI: I'm siding with the Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court decided that your argument was moot.
BOYKIN: And the Supreme Court was wrong. There were three dissenting members who said otherwise.
BORELLI: TPS statute gave the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to do this. You may not like the results of the election but I happen to have voted for Donald Trump.
BOYKIN: You voted for a racist foreign policy under Donald Trump?
(CROSSTALKS)
BOYKIN: Trump is allowing white South Africans to come to this country. That's not up for renewal. They're the only people who are allowed to come to this country right now.
BORELLI: Name a majority white country that has TPS, that has TPS, that's up for renewal that the Trump administration did not try to not renew.
REYES: You have very passionate arguments around TPS, right, both of you at this table, all of us. But the thing I think is most important when we're talking about TPS is that this case was not about a definition of what is temporary, when is temporary too long. And it wasn't a case, it was not a case about whether or not Haitians are here doing jobs that Americans don't want. And Haitians actually -- among our immigrant population, Haitians have some of the highest educational attainment because many people who have come from Haiti left because they are professional people with advanced degrees.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Joe, please let him finish.
REYES: The point of TPS is in the letter of the law and the spirit of the law is that it grants humanitarian relief to people from these countries where they would be in danger if the U.S. government returned them. This is not a question of what -- the Supreme Court did not even examine the issue, did not --
BORELLI: Does the statute give a end date for the renewal?
REYES: No, by design.
(CROSSTALKS)
BORELLI: So, the renewal date for Ukraine, that's up in the fall this year --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: I mean, Raul's point is that --
BORELLI: It's a policy question.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Raul's point is that TPS is designed that it can be extended for as many times as it wants -- as the administration wants it to be.
BORELLI: And they did not. And the discretion is given to the --
PHILLIP: Now, but here's the thing. I think Raul's other point was that they acknowledged that they didn't follow the process that's in the law for actually going through this renewal process. So, the court basically said, it doesn't really matter. We're going to defer to the executive branch and let them proceed however, even if it is in defiance of the law.
REYES: You're correct in the sense that the statute does give Homeland Security secretary this discretion to -- around TPS when they follow the processes, which they admit in the filing that they did not. That's what makes this a really startling decision. And I know I'm talking too much. And so -- but I want to say that's an important part of this discussion.
PHILLIP: Let me just play one, one more thing. This is Stephen Miller today talking about what he's thinks the founding farmers would have -- founded, founding fathers would have wanted. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: You know, when the founding fathers built this country, they were keenly aware of the fact that their history as Englishmen in the colonies, their history and experience with enlightenment principles and values, formed the foundation of our system of government.
[22:15:11]
It's simply not the case. It has never been the case. To go back to the Haiti example, that you can just take 3 million people from a failed island, put them into America, and overnight that they're able to become fully successful, fully assimilated American citizens. That defies everything we know about how culture works, how assimilation works, how nations work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, Amanda, I find it extremely rich for someone like Stephen Miller to say that, especially since his own ancestors who were Jewish, who fled persecution, came to this country and were thought at the time to not be capable of assimilation, were thought at the time to not be compatible with American society. And they came here, and they assimilated, and now he's in the White House.
AMANDA LITMAN, CO-FOUNDER, RUN FOR SOMETHING: It is the embodiment of the American dream. I mean, it's literally engraved on the Statue of Liberty, give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses. Like this is a place where you can come if you are not safe where you live. It's a place where you can come and incorporate and assimilate and be a true American.
SUNSHINE: Okay. Can they come stay at your house? Can they come to your community?
LITMAN: They are in our community. I live in New York City, one of the most diverse cities in the world. SUNSHINE: So, can they come stay at your house and --
LITMAN: I would welcome them in my home. I would welcome them in my neighborhood.
SUNSHINE: As many as we need?
LITMAN: If they are coming here through the way --
SUNSHINE: Could your house handle ten, even if it doesn't have room for ten?
LITMAN: We should solve the housing crisis in New York City, and then I would love to do that.
SUNSHINE: But you could just take them now.
REYES: Nations with TPS are not doing that.
PHILLIP: Okay. Let me let Amanda finish her point, please.
LITMAN: I would just say, I think it's like such a devastating way to go into celebrating 250 years of America, by kicking out the people who make America great, who make this country what it is, the immigrants who come and say, you know what? I'm going to come as a doctor, an engineer. I'm going to bring my talents to Springfield, Ohio, and make that a home.
SUNSHINE: Was the Haitian migrant who killed 11-year-old Aiden Clark making America better with that action?
REYES: That is not --
(CROSSTALKS)
SUNSHINE: He killed a child. Is that making America better?
(CROSSTALKS)
BOYKIN: Because of one case, one case, we're going to kick out 350,000 people because of one case? What about all the white people who commit crimes in this country? You're going to kick them out of this country?
SUNSHINE: One American life matters.
BOYKIN: You're going to kick them out of this country too?
SUNSHINE: But you haven't answered the question.
BOYKIN: But you know what? Your comment is just as racist as Donald Trump's comment. The idea that you focus on one Haitian, one Haitian person and use that as a justification for a racist foreign policy is disgusting. It's abhorrent. And then if --
SUNSHINE: It's disgusting that an 11-year-old was killed by a Haitian migrant who rammed his car into a bus. That is disgusting.
BOYKIN: (INAUDIBLE) justification of smearing an entire population that Trump called shithole, a shithole country, that shows exactly what MAGA is made of. It's made of racism.
PHILLIP: All right. We got to just leave it there. We do have to leave it there.
We want to invite you at home to join the debate. You can go to cnn.com/abby and weigh in on this conversation and all the others in the show. We'll get to some of your comments at the end of the show.
But next for us, Donald Trump's conservative critics are getting louder and bolder, including a shouting match, and Tucker Carlson is calling Trump the B word.
Plus, AOC is defending progressivism against Democratic critics as socialists continue to pile up the wins across the country. Another special guest is going to be with us at the table.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, some of the president's former allies are his critics. They are getting louder and louder, and it's not holding anything back. Tucker Carlson campaigned for Trump just two years ago, and now he's divorcing himself from the Republican Party entirely. He's calling Trump weak, and chief among his complaints is that Trump's war with Iran is wrong.
Carlson took his jabs one step further today. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: He tried to posture his way out of it, we're going to eliminate you. And after like the 400th Truth Social, they reached the same conclusion that everyone on the globe reached, which is this guy's not strong, he's weak. Strong people don't brag about how strong they are. They just punch you in the face.
There are two types of guys, and you got to be careful of the second. They're the first who are like, what'd you say? What'd you say? Say it again. You know, push you in the chest. You don't have to worry about those guys. And then there are the guys who don't say anything, just knock you cold.
And Trump is very much, what'd you say? Shut up, (BLEEP). I don't take you seriously. No, I'm not being mean, but like, come on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Patrick McEnroe joins us in our fifth seat.
PATRICK MCENROE, ESPN COMMENTATOR: Wow. How'd I get so lucky to get in this spot?
PHILLIP: Yes. Okay. So, first of all, Tucker Carlson giving lessons on toughness is one way to look at this, but is he right?
MCENROE: I'm not sure he's right, but, you know, it it's good to be loud, and it's good to be -- make a huge statement wherever you're coming from. Believe it or not, I was actually in D.C. this week meeting with some senators and some congressmen about another issue, college athletics. But what struck me was actually the people behind the scenes in D.C., and I'm talking about staffers, I'm talking about interns, people working for the senators, they actually want to get stuff done.
And I actually walked out of there thinking to myself, you know, there's a lot of young, positive people here that actually want to solve some problems. And, you know, we all come on -- we come on these shows, and we talk about, you know, the people that are loud and that have an extreme view -- in my view, an extreme view of what's really going on, when behind the scenes, I think there's actually a bunch of people that are really trying to make things better and get things done in a more positive direction.
[22:25:00]
So, is Tucker Carlson right? I'll leave it to the experts here to tell me if he's right or wrong.
PHILLIP: Trump, I mean, I think, is facing this backlash from people like Carlson, but, look, part of it is if Tucker really doesn't like this part of Trump, why did he support him in the first place? Because Trump has always been this person to yell and scream about how tough he is and then actually to pull his punches, as he did with Iran. So, is that really the problem for Tucker and for some of the other conservatives who are trying to walk out of the MAGA movement right now?
SUNSHINE: So, the president respects strength. He doesn't respect people who are weak or project weakness. So, I think what Tucker's doing is just using the president's same playbook. I mean, the president is a trash talker. He gets out and uses that same tone that Tucker uses, says the same things. Tucker's just using that same playbook because he knows that's actually what Trump respects. He respects people that are brawlers like that.
I think what's going on largely in terms of what's going on Capitol Hill and what Tucker's saying is they're watching the king bleed for the first time, and they smell blood in the water, and they're taking advantage of it. And so you watch the president's actions on Capitol Hill, and I think in response to Tucker's comments where he kind of did a show of force and said, I'm the boss, I'm going to tell you what we're doing.
And I get it because I'd be frustrated too if I was him. I mean, first of all, he did waste an enormous amount of political capital on this war. Whoever told him to do it, totally misguided. I think the president should have listened to people who have been loyal to him rather than dismissing them and banishing them because what we've learned is the neo-cons will always use you. They will never have your back. I thought we learned that in the first term of the Trump administration. I guess we didn't.
But I understand some of the president's frustration on Capitol Hill because it's like we never have the votes for the SAVE Act. We never have the votes to confirm Bill Pulte, but we always have the votes for $9 billion more for Ukraine or $300 billion more for the war, and it's like, come on, get real.
PHILLIP: I mean, I don't know. I mean, here's the thing. Republicans want to win elections.
SUNSHINE: That's how government works.
PHILLIP: Yes and they -- look, they want to win elections. And if you think if they thought that all of those -- if Bill Pulte and the SAVE Act were going to help them win elections, don't you think they would be running to cast their vote? I mean, they're not because it's not going to help them.
I mean, this is a very -- like people are doing what's in their self- interest.
LITMAN: Not only that, they passed what is honestly a sort of incredible feat, which is a bipartisan bill to advance -- to lower the cost of housing, and he says, I'm not going to sign that. I'm going to wait till you pass the SAVE Act. I'm going to actively suppress the vote using the SAVE Act. I don't want to touch that housing bill. And he's actively also said, I don't want housing to get any cheaper.
That's not how you lead when you care about winning the next election, which I do think begs the question, does Trump want to -- well, does Trump want to win the midterms?
SUNSHINE: I think he would prefer to win.
PHILLIP: Oh, he's not acting like it.
SUNSHINE: But, frankly, I don't think he's scared of losing because I think what he's learned is he's had everything thrown at him. He's been through the investigations. He's been through the subpoenas. He's been through the witch hunts, and he's actually learned that his political brand does a lot better when he's a political martyr on the ropes.
PHILLIP: I actually think that's right.
SUNSHINE: And I think he's learned that like it doesn't matter, you guys are useless anyways. I'm going to keep the Senate, lose the House and I'll have more time for the ballroom and the reflecting pool.
PHILLIP: Trump prefers to be a foil than getting things done. Again, that's not really why the Tuckers and the Marjorie Taylor Greenes are upset, but it is the truth, and it's one of the reasons that he's lost support from some people on Capitol Hill. But then, again, you know, all the talk about Bill Bill Cassidy confronting Trump in this meeting yesterday, and then he talks to CBS and he explains why he, by the end of the day, had already backed down from his criticism of the president. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): And I listed those objectives that I did not see being achieved, and how the kind of endpoint of the war kept stretching out longer and longer.
I need to know to serve my people and my state and my country. As it turns out, I got a briefing afterwards. In one sense, I actually accomplished the mission of what I needed to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you had also said the American people need that information.
CASSIDY: So --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The American people aren't getting those public hearings and briefings that you got.
CASSIDY: So, last night when I asked about that in my briefing, they said right now the negotiations are delicate, and they could collapse if they're not nursed along in the appropriate way. I can accept that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: If it's that easy, I mean, what's the point of yelling at the president in a meeting if you're going to just back down that easily?
BORELLI: Well, I think we have a term for that. It's called beer muscles, you know? This is a guy who had a little bit of an audience. He had his pals in the Senate. And he decided to take out, in his mind, what would be some revenge. Remember, this is someone who just came in third place in a race where his own constituents rejected his version of the Republican Party, right? Republican Louisiana voters said no to this guy, not just for the leading candidate, but for the person who came in second place was even better, more preferred to him.
But you pointed out some other people, too.
[22:30:00]
You pointed out Marjorie Taylor Greene. You pointed out Tucker Carlson. These are people that have always, you know, to their critics, had this fringe place in the Republican Party.
And for the most part, the Republicans are more willing to cast aside fringe voices, people that go a little bit too extreme. In the Democratic Party, they do the opposite. They elect them to the highest offices.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Is that true?
BORELLI: (inaudible) -- is in New York.
AMANDA LITMAN, CO-FOUNDER, RUN FOR SOMETHING: Isn't Donald Trump President?
PHILLIP: Also, Joe--
BORELLI: -- has some of the more moderate views of the Republican Party.
PHILLIP: I don't think it's really true that, I think, that Republicans would have been totally fine with both Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene and all of their fringe beliefs if they had not challenged Trump. That's the only reason. It's not because they're too crazy for them.
BORELLI: Tucker Carlson literally went 180 degrees on all his views. He lost his show on Fox, lost his audience, and then did something or somehow got some new show. And now he has completely opposite views of where he once was.
PHILLIP: You guys were totally fine with him a year ago.
KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE: And it's not just Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene. It's also John Cornyn, who's now an enemy or partial enemy. It's also Tom Tillis.
BORELLI: The voters?
BOYKIN: But I'm saying Trump is making enemies at the same time when he needs to be making friends. And that's why Republicans in the Senate are actually pissed off and why he's not getting his legislative agenda through.
BORELLI: He ran the MAGA movement against these insiders, like Cornyn, like Cassidy, and right now the voters took the side of Donald Trump.
BOYKIN: Donald Trump is toxic and Republicans are starting to realize it.
BORELLI: Why are all the Republican voters voting for Trump candidates if he's toxic? It's not true. He won almost every election he endorsed a candidate except one in Iowa, one in South Carolina. Very few compared to the hundreds that won.
PHILLIP: All right, let's leave it there. Next for us, deja vu all over again. That's what AOC thinks about the hand-wringing from Democrats about the new wave of socialists who are winning primaries across the country. We'll discuss, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIP: Tonight, the Democratic Party establishment is reeling, trying and failing to contend with the size of its tent and the limits of its power over socialism. After all of Zohran Mamdani's endorsements won their primary challenges, it put the party leadership on notice. But as moderate Democrats worry the progressive left will drag down other Democrats, the face of the movement is defending it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I feel like it's deja vu all over again. There was so much fear around that when I was elected and none of it bore out to be true.
Voters vote for what is happening in their community and what's on their ballot. And I think that any candidate of any party that's running their own race has the responsibility to run their race, say what they believe and be as attuned to their community and their voters as possible.
While there may be personalities, I think what they want to see is policy. Are we fighting to guarantee health care for every American? Are we trying to raise wages? Are we tackling these huge corporations?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: She would know. She unseated an incumbent, a longtime Democrat, and she ran as a Democratic socialist as well. So she knows. And do you think that she's right that this is basically deja vu? It's her race but times three.
BORELLI: It's not that she's right. She's right that this is similar to her race. But I can't remember her ever saying horrible, disparaging things about the American flag, being part or founding an organization that wants to undermine the republic. This is what some of the candidates that won recently are doing. So they are much more further towards the radical left than AOC ever was.
So at some point she's going to have to contend with what a lot of establishment Democrats have to come to face after 10, 20 years. They eventually become the establishment and they get eaten by this new cadre.
Look, what happened with the Democratic Party was this. For 10 years, for eight years, whatever you want to say, the party had no message other than orange man bad. And Zohran Mamdani, his allies, his compatriots, they filled that void with a very cogent series of ideas, it's called socialism.
And they filled that void and this is the only alternative message to Trump out there in the ether. And people did pick up what they're putting down. Mamdani's a vote getter, no question about that.
But this is essentially good for Republican Party because you have a lot of Democrats, even Tisha James, the Attorney General here in New York, pushing back on the socialists. They're afraid of the socialists because they see the electoral possibility of what the Republicans can do.
PHILLIP: But isn't he right in the respect that Democrats have been coasting on Trump bad for years and years. And now there is an alternative message. They don't like it. Some of the establishment doesn't like it, but it is a real message.
LITMAN: I agree full stop. If the establishment Democratic Party wants to beat out the socialists or the far left, put forward a message. Tell us what you want to do. Tell us how you're going to make housing cheaper, child care more affordable, solve the affordability crisis. Where's the vision?
If the establishment and the old guard wanted to win, they should have been organizing. They should have been communicating, they should have been doing stuff.
[22:40:00]
I think the frustration that voters have right now that I think is so visceral and so deep is the sense that our leadership is not well suited for the moment. They have neither the stomach nor the skills to fight in the way that we need and they have failed to deliver on the promise that like, oh, no, just elect us and we'll get it done, or no, we know who can win.
They have lost all sense of credibility with the Democratic base. They no longer reflect the party as it stands with voters.
PATRICK MCENROE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: What I don't understand is why the Democrats are going down this socialism route because that's not going to work in the rest of the country. It might work in New York City for a while.
LITMAN: It doesn't need to work in the rest of the country.
MCENROE: Well, if you want to win the presidency, I believe it's going to have to work. So progressivism, when I hear progressivism, I think something a lot different than when I hear socialism.
So when I hear Democrats saying, I'm a Democratic socialist, I'm thinking, why are you saying that? The Republicans do a hell of a job of identifying, we're going to call them socialists. Socialists hate America.
BOYKIN: Can I ask you something?
MCENROE: Please.
BOYKIN: No disrespect, you don't have to answer the question, but how old are you?
MCENROE: I'll be 60 in a couple weeks.
BOYKIN: You look great. You look wonderful.
MCENROE: Thank you. BOYKIN: But I think the truth is that for a lot of younger people,
they don't care about those labels, they don't know the difference.
I mean, they know the difference, but it doesn't really matter to them as much. And part of the reason why, look at what's happening here in New York City. Just today, Zohran Mamdani just had a rent freeze that the rent control board established, which he promised he was going to deliver.
He got universal child care through in the past six months he's been in office. He's got crime down. Let me finish. He's got crime down. He's got the --
LITMAN: Knicks winning the championships.
BOYKIN: He's got the Knicks winning historic championships. And he balanced the budget on top of that. If that's socialism, then sign me up. Because those are things that people want. He's delivering results for the people of the city.
PHILLIP: So, can I just --
BORELLI: The city halted a protest by progressive Democrats against Mamdani's treatment of the NYPD.
PHILLIP: Hold on, sure. But just to be clear, I mean, what's fascinating is that look at this polling about, let's start with Mamdani, 48 percent of New Yorkers approve of him, just 30 percent disapprove, 23 percent are unsure. So, he has a net positive approval rating in this city right now.
Look at the national picture. Bernie Sanders is the most popular newsmaker, plus 11 percent favorability. Followed only by AOC, who has a negative 4 approval rating. And then all these other --
Look at Donald Trump. He's at literally the bottom. I don't know what Marco Rubio did to the public, but he is at the bottom of the list. But look, my point is that I don't know about the labels. I think that
maybe people are too obsessed with that idea.
Because it seems like voters are not taking that seriously. They're also not taking the real controversies. Like, honestly, some of these candidates have said some things, they've deleted tweets, they've said some things that they don't even want to defend.
But voters are just ignoring all of those things. And I feel like that is, if nothing else, that is actually a Donald Trump legacy. Donald Trump set the table for that kind of thing in our politics.
CAROLINE SUNSHINE, DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP'S 2024 CAMPAIGN: Well, I think Donald Trump inherited. I always said Donald Trump's election. A happy country does not elect Donald Trump, an angry country elects Donald Trump.
And Aristotle said that you have to have a thriving middle class in a democracy because it moderates the politics. And when that middle class shrinks and when it disappears, you're going to get political extremes.
And this country has produced Donald Trump to the presidency. And now it's produced Mamdani in New York City and AOC. We have a country where one in three Americans under 35 live with their parents, the average age of the first-time homebuyer is 40 years old, the main middle class pathway to upward mobility and a better life, college, has all but collapsed.
Most people do not believe that going to college is the way to have a better life anymore. That has been our main economic highway for decades, all of that has collapsed. A civilized global superpower would look at all of those statistics and treat it like the national emergency that it is.
Because what's going to happen is the United States is going to get revolution one way or another. We don't want to see it go down the path that Russia, France, Iran went down, where the young disenfranchised just revolted. You're not going to beat left-wing populism with anything other than right-wing populism. America already said that's what they want.
But the Trump administration has to double and triple down on its right-wing populist policies to blunt the rise. Otherwise, people are going to look for left-wing solutions.
PHILLIP: All right, we're going to pause here, take a quick break, and we'll be back on the other side to finish the conversation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Understand, these people do not like Democrats. Not only are they not Democrats, they wish Democrats poorly. Maybe there's a way that you can say to, I guess, Mamdani the leader of it, is, you know, you try to insist that the people that run under your banner run as a Democratic Socialist and don't use the Democratic Party as your guideline, and let's negotiate the terms of a schism here.
Maybe we can part under some kind of advantageous terms for both of us. But I'm done. I'm not in that (expletive) political party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: He's leaving. At least he says so.
[22:50:01]
I mean, Keith, do you think that's helpful, what he's saying there? BOYKIN: You know, I've known James Carville since 1992. We worked on
the Clinton campaign together. He doesn't know me, but I knew him because he was the campaign manager. But that's the kind of stuff he says. I'm not surprised he says it, but it's not representative of where this party is. We've been talking years and years about how this is a big tent.
Now we have a big tent. We've got a party that's got John Fetterman and Joe Biden and AOC and Zohran Mamdani all together. Who knows how long he's going to be there, but he's there right now. He feels like he aligns himself with the Democratic Party. That's a pretty big tent.
I think they should be leaning into that big tent messaging, because just like Donald Trump and all of his racist, incendiary, xenophobic comments doesn't stop Republicans from being elected in the suburbs, having one or two or even three Democratic Socialists in New York City is not going to stop Democrats from being elected in other states across the country. We've got to stop all this sky-is-falling nonsense and get back to focus.
The focus is Donald Trump versus the American people. Donald Trump is busy worrying about a ballroom and the Kennedy Center and the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool and refusing to sign a housing bill instead of talking about the things that people are actually interested in. He's an 80-year-old billionaire and his closest buddy is a trillionaire.
Meanwhile, at least Zohran Mamdani, who's a 34-year-old young guy who's a mayor, yes, he's a Muslim, yes, he's a Democratic Socialist, but he's actually getting things done. He's balancing budgets. He's taking care of issues that the people in this city care about.
That's a contrast that I think the Democrats can set up against Republicans any day.
BORELLI: When you get bailed out by the state, it's not a balanced budget.
BOYKIN: The budget is balanced, crime is down, and universal child care has been signed into law.
BORELLI: More to the point, though, James Carville's right, and not only is he right, the head of the Democratic Socialists, one of the founders of the Democratic Socialists here in New York City, echoed exactly what he said. He came on T.V. the other day and said, we are just using the Democratic Party as an electoral tool. We're not Democrats, we're Democratic Socialists.
We're using this because this is a pathway to get what we want, which is power and control, and to implement DSA policies. So, Carville's right.
SUNSHINE: That's what Matt did.
BOYKIN: That's what the team did.
BORELLI: All I'm saying is Carville's right. It's fine.
BOYKIN: They're not Democrats. If they're running as Democrats, they're a victim of Democrats.
BORELLI: If you're a campaign manager in any one of the other 430 seats that aren't in the commie corridor in New York, you're going to put the picture of Claire Valdez and Chevalier and all these others on the ballot.
LITMAN: You're going to say, you know what, I don't agree with them, but I'm excited to work with them to make health care more affordable.
BOYKIN: Donald Trump is a convicted criminal who started an insurrection, and Republicans still vote for him. So you're telling me that we're worried about three Democratic Congress people in New York City?
PHILLIP: Patrick was the one who suggested that, you know, the socialism thing, not down with it, and maybe middle America is not either.
MCENROE: I'm down with all that he said about what they're doing.
PHILLIP: That's what I was going to ask you. Caroline made the point that it's populism on the left and populism on the right. And, yes, I mean, do you think, is that convincing to you?
MCENROE: What's convincing to me is what he said about what Mamdani's doing in New York, the issues that he's been tackling, the policies he's been putting in place. I'm a person that thinks you should try to help people, right?
And you have to get that message out. But what I'm saying is, in my view, as a person who's not in the political world like you all are, to win the presidency, you can't go to the rest of the country and say, we're socialists.
That's all I'm saying.
PHILLIP: But can you--
MCENROE: Maybe the policies are.
PHILLIP: But, I mean, I think Keith's point is, like, if you're--
MCENROE: Isn't that what Cardinal's saying? Isn't that what James Carville just said?
PHILLIP: He ran as a twice-impeached President, former President, who incited an insurrection, who, in the first campaign, it was found that he said he was going to grab women by their private parts.
And America, middle America, totally elected that. I mean, they totally elected this.
MCENROE: That's what I'm saying. Middle America's not going to elect the social--
PHILLIP: All of that is fine, but socialism is a bridge too far.
MCENROE: We'll see. I'm not so sure, even though I'm still young.
SUNSHINE: I think anybody who's ever had a teenage daughter knows what I'm talking about. You'll have, like, the bad boy who promises her the world and says, you know, I'll give you all these things. And you, as a parent, go, that guy is trouble. He's a liar. That's what socialism looks like to young people.
BOYKIN: That's what Donald Trump is.
SUNSHINE: They don't have ownership in their society. And if you don't have ownership in your society, if ownership feels too hard, you're going to be tempted by the sweet-talking bad boy and say, come here, baby, I'll make the right choice.
We all know where that story ends, because socialism is predominantly pushed by failed academics who can't do anything. You're talking about Donald Trump.
BOYKIN: You're talking about Donald Trump.
PHILLIP: Let's go ahead and leave that one there. Next for us, a new addition to the table, you at home. We're going to read some of your feedback when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: It's your turn to join the table. We've been asking you to weigh in the entire hour, so let's start with this viewer comment. As a young person, I can tell you, we don't find socialism as a bad word. We're tired of big money in politics. Another viewer says, why do we label candidates? Just put forth your policies.
And a question for someone at this table, why is Patrick McEnroe here? I would hate to see his tennis expertise tainted by politics.
[23:00:02]
MCENROE: Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for bringing that up. I've been wondering that all night for this last hour. Why the hell am I here? I've had a great time. I love being here.
PHILLIP: This viewer is trying to protect you from all the bad stuff in our politics.
MCENROE: Listen, I appreciate the effort, but I'm here and I can take the blow.
PHILLIP: He's a voter just like you. Be sure to join the debate tomorrow night at CNN.com. We'll be live from the Food Network's test kitchen. Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live"
starts right now.
