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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Blanche, Clayton Grilled in Heated Confirmation Hearings; Trump Overturns Suspension of ICE Traffic Stops After Pause. White House Officials Probe Leaks in the Air Force One Gift by Qatar on Security Concerns; Hegseth Rolls Out New Testosterone Deficiency Screening Program for Troops. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 15, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the president's men on Capitol Hill toeing the president's line.
SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): Who won the 2020 election?
JAY CLATON, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE NOMINEE: I'm not going to get into that with you.
PHILLIP: And blurring others.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Are you and President Trump friends?
TODD BLANCHE, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I'm his lawyer, was his lawyer.
PHILLIP: Their answers leaving some key senators undecided.
Plus, a furious Trump says the suspension of ICE traffic stops is over after the DHS secretary is blasted for the move.
MIKE DAVIS, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, ARTICLE III PROJECT: If he's not up to doing the job, get the hell out of the job.
PHILLIP: And in Maine, Susan Collins faces new questions about her immigration record.
Also, to catch a leaker, Susie Wiles and Kash Patel lead the search, and some White House officials are ordered to turn over their phones.
And Pete Hegseth announces a new policy.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I'm authorizing a new screening program for testosterone deficiency.
PHILLIP: He says it's to optimize performance for military servicemen. Live at the table, Lydia Moynihan, Charles Blow, Sabrina Singh, Shermichael Singleton, and Ana Navarro.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Tonight, a split-screen job interview for two of the most important positions in the government. Todd Blanche and Jay Clayton were grilled on Capitol Hill today trying to convince senators that they could be the next attorney general and the next director of National Intelligence respectively.
They were trying to do a delicate dance, giving answers that would satisfy President Trump and answers that won't sink their nominations, given that Republicans have a thin majority in the Senate right now.
Now, Blanche immediately came under fire for his involvement in a number of controversial moves by the DOJ, including the handling of the Epstein files, his past comments on Trump's January 6th pardons, Trump's lawsuit against the IRS, and that so-called slush fund that came from that settlement.
Now, Blanche couldn't escape the concerns about his past role as the president's former personal attorney, something that he actually brought attention to in very ill-timed slip up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: Are you and President Trump friends?
BLANCHE: I'm his lawyer, was his lawyer, and now I'm the deputy attorney general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Blanche was also challenged about that $1.8 billion anti- weaponization fund. At least one Republican on the Judiciary Committee isn't convinced that the fund is really and truly dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Did Todd Blanche satisfy your concerns about the weaponization fund?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): Well, basically he confirmed that it's not dead.
And he agreed that it could be enforced as a matter of contract.
RAJU: Does that concern you?
CORNYN: Yes. RAJU: I mean, does that mean that you're -- how does that affect your decision about whether to vote for him or not?
CORNYN: Well, I have to put that in the mix.
RAJU: So, you're truly undecided right now?
CORNYN: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP: Retired U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin joins us in our fifth seat.
But before we open it up here to the table, we want to invite you at home to join the debate. Go to cnn.com/abby and weigh in there. We'll get to some of your comments as we go through the show.
Judge Scheindlin, let's start with Todd Blanche, because I think his candidness or perhaps lack thereof in some cases is part of the issue here. And did you get the sense from what you've seen at this hearing that he made a good show of what you think the Justice Department should be about if you in fact believe that it should be independent of the president's wishes?
SHIRA SCHEINDLIN, RETIRED U.S. DISTRICT COURT JUDGE: Well, I do believe it should be independent of the president, and that the attorney general should serve the United States, be loyal to the Constitution, and therefore to the people. But it hasn't seemed that way in the time he's been the deputy attorney general and now the acting attorney general. He seems to continue to feel as if he's the president's lawyer.
In so many ways, I have found his performance disappointing, to say the least, and I can give you some of the reasons for that. People he's gone after without much justification seem to be the president's perceived enemies, as if the president is saying, please prosecute the following people, and that's not --
[22:05:07]
PHILLIP: Which he has said.
SCHEINDLIN: He said that's --
PHILLIP: He has in fact said that, yes.
SCHEINDLIN: Well, he said it directly to Pam Bondi. He said, I want you to do this. But even since Blanche has been there, he seems to have continued that by continuing to go after James Comey for the seashells on the beach, which really doesn't sound like a criminal case to me, to going after certain other people, Tish James John Brennan, a whole list of folks that seem to be the president's chosen enemies. So, that's one thing I would fault him for.
Secondly this fake settlement, this weaponization fund and the immunity from prosecution on the tax audits, that was very troubling because the lawyers were not honest with the court, and that's a big problem. To tell the court there's no settlement when there is a settlement, that's not right. And that's been going on.
PHILLIP: And he was caught in this today, Shermichael, because he acknowledged that -- he kept saying, it's dead, but he acknowledged that there's actually nothing in writing that says that it's dead, and there's nothing in writing that says that the president, who's the plaintiff, can't try to revive it by basically saying, we have a deal and it's written down here, and you said you were going to create this fund.
So, I mean, how is he to be believed? And it sounds like John Cornyn, who's going to be a pivotal vote, doesn't believe him.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, that, that's a point of consternation I think for the individuals that are tasked with ultimately getting him confirmed. I've been through this process before during the first Trump administration, having a nominee ultimately go before a committee, going through the murder board process, sitting with Dems, sitting with Republicans, and sometimes you do have to make concessions to get your person across the finish line. And I think listening to Manu's question to Senator Cornyn, they may have to go back and put this in writing in order to get his vote.
Now, there's a couple ways this could work out. He could ultimately vote to get him out of committee, but then say, I'm not going to vote for him on the floor. And so I think if you're the Sherpa, you have to be very, very careful with not losing votes here. So, I'm not sure how this is going to work out, but I think you may have to put this thing in writing and say, look, this is over. This is a done deal.
PHILLIP: Let me play -- this is Jay Clayton. He's the guy that Trump has chosen to become the director of National Intelligence, and, obviously, Trump has been very clear he wants that office to now be concerned with his 2020 election conspiracies and so on and so forth. This is Clayton answering questions about just a basic question of fact. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSSOFF: Who won the 2020 election?
CLAYTON: I don't -- I'm not -- this is like -- I'm just not -- I'm here to talk about my qualifications.
OSSOFF: So, he won the election?
CLAYTON: He followed our process, had the most electoral votes, was declared the winner.
OSSOFF: You refuse to answer a simple matter of fact about the 2020 election. Is that right?
CLAYTON: No, that's not right.
OSSOFF: Then answer the question. Who won the 2020 election?
CLAYTON: I have answered the question.
OSSOFF: Answer it. What is your answer?
CLAYTON: I've given you my answer.
OSSOFF: What is your answer?
You refuse to answer a basic question about who won a presidential election but you ask to lead America's intelligence community?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Lydia, that's kind of embarrassing and maybe a little concerning if -- I mean, intelligence is what he wants to have the job of doing. If he can't just state a fact, how can he do that other job?
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK PSOT: I mean, he'd been asked, I think, three times at that point, and he did mince words. I would've liked him just to say yes and put an end to the discussion.
But there's a lot of theatrics at these kind of hearings. Jon Ossoff got his sound bite, and Republicans kind of do the same thing. They love to ask, you know, what is a woman? And Ketanji Brown Jackson couldn't answer. A lot of people still can't answer that question. So, to me, it's theatrics.
I do have to say it's funny. I feel like we've sat at this table so many times and bashed Pam Bondi and Bill Pulte, and I kind of thought maybe people would be glad to have Jay Clayton and Todd Blanche, people who are imminently qualified for these jobs. And I think at the end of the day, it's a question of do you want Jay Clayton, or do you want Bill Pulte?
I think Jay Clayton --
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: I actually think that the two --
CHARLES BLOW, SUBSTACK AUTHOR, BLOW THE STACK: Do you acknowledge that Joe Biden won the election?
SINGH: The two people that were on the Hill today --
BLOW: No. Did you -- so you can do it just now but he couldn't do it?
SINGH: The two people that were on the Hill today are legitimately unqualified.
MOYNIHAN: I know you're trying to get a social media clip, Charles, but --
BLOW: Do you know --
MOYNIHAN: I think Sabrina was trying to talk. I know you're trying to get your social media clip or the gotcha. I answered your question already, but I'm also not here to answer to you. So --
BLOW: I'm happy that you told me that because I really appreciate. I'm sorry. I really appreciate you lecturing me about what I'm here to do, because I'm here because Abby's show invited me here, and I have been in journalism for a very long time. In fact, I came to The New York Times when you -- the year that you were born.
So, I would choose -- I suggest that you choose a lane that is your own and stay in it, and don't lecture me, because I won't be lectured by a child. Thank you.
PHILLIP: All right, look. Go ahead.
[22:10:00]
SINGH: So, I think to what Lydia was saying about these people being qualified, I would disagree that these are qualified individuals. I think what you saw on the Hill were two people that are quite grossly not qualified for the offices that they're seeking and will do the bidding -- to the point that you're making, they're supposed to serve the American people.
The attorney general is meant to be a check on the administration, on the president, and they're meant to be objective and serving the public. And what you saw today, even when Todd Blanche slipped up and said, I'm the president's lawyer, you're actually not. You're actually the lawyer, the attorney general for the public.
And so I think what was displayed on Capitol Hill today, yes, you're right, there were theatrics, but they weren't wrong. I mean, facts are facts. I mean, who won the election 2020? It's just like -- it's like, is the sky blue? I mean, that is a very easy question that could've been answered, and yet there was a struggle.
So, I do think you have unqualified people up there. I do think the Senate ultimately probably rallies around these two individuals and passes them out.
PHILLIP: And I would say that on the Clayton issue, there are people who -- our friend Elie Honig in the last hour made a very compelling case that he is not qualified.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: He has no background in intelligence at all.
SINGLETON: No. Look, I agree that the attorney general should not curry favor for an individual but adhere to the Constitution. I think most of us at the table would probably agree with that. But as it pertains to Todd, I think it's hard to say he's not qualified. I mean, the guy was at Southern District of New York, moved up through the ranks. Elie Honig actually worked with him. The current attorney general for New York, Alvin Bragg, worked with him as well.
So, it's okay to disagree. I'm going to give you the room for that. You have the right to do that. (CROSSTALKS)
BLOW: But the point of the question is the real question here, because Cornyn has offered the real -- the same objection to all of them.
SINGLETON: Sure.
BLOW: Merrick, to Bondi, and now to Blanche, which is he's saying, I need to make sure that you can tell me that the DOJ will be independent of the president.
(CROSSTALKS)
BLOW: And he is not there. He is not there yet.
SINGLETON: And that's why I said though, Charles --
(CROSSTALKS)
SCHEINDLIN: This is a man who said that he, his administration and he are at war with the judiciary. That's a terrible thing to have said. Nobody should be at war with the judiciary. There are three coequal branches of government, as we know. He also has called judges rogue. He has also criticized their opinions in a way that's not appropriate. So -- and he and his people have been disrespectful and lied to the court such that there's no longer a presumption of regularity, which means that judges no longer believe DOJ lawyers.
16,000 people have left the DOJ since this man got here because they worked on cases that the president thinks were wrongly brought against him. So, they were just summarily fired.
PHILLIP: Let me just play another interaction. He was asked about his comments about the January 6th pardons by a senator, and I'm going to play what he said in the hearing today and what he actually said in that appearance that was being questioned about. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI): And you've bragged that bringing justice for violent rioters meant that every one of them was either pardoned or had their sentence commuted.
BLANCHE: Almost everything the senator just said, and he's protected, he's allowed to lie, but almost everything he just said was absolutely false.
I wasn't celebrating it. I was merely stating a fact.
If you look at what happened to the men and women convicted because of January 6th, by 5:00 P.M. on January 20th, every one of them was either pardoned or had their sentence commuted, okay? So, when folks say you've done nothing, I say you have a very short memory.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: I don't know. I mean, it does very much sound there that he's defending the decision to pardon these rioters.
BLOW: That's what it sounds like to me. I mean, and he tried to thread the needle today by saying that, you know, that it was right to prosecute them, but also not condemning Trump's decision to pardon them.
So, how do you have it both ways? Either they did something that was horrible and they needed to be prosecuted and therefore punished for it, and also say, well, the president has the absolute right to do whatever he wants to do, and I'm not going to comment on that.
SCHEINDLIN: Well, but he did say -- to get some votes, he did say, and we'll look into the way the pardon power is exercised. So, he kind of threw a bone, I thought.
BLOW: That's unbelievable.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Not saying that and nothing are the same thing because there is nothing he can do about the way the pardon powers --
(CROSSTALKS)
SCHEINDLIN: He's throwing a bone to try to get those last votes, yes.
PHILLIP: Yes. All right, Judge Shira Scheindlin, thank you very much for being here. We appreciate you.
Next for us, after MAGA backlash, the president says the temporary suspension of most ICE traffic stops is now over.
Plus, the hunt for the leaker is on. Some White House officials told to hand over their phones as Trump officials search for who leaked details of Air Force One's security issues to reporters.
[22:15:04]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Just 24 hours after the Department of Homeland Security paused ICE vehicle stops, President Trump said, not so fast, and he reversed course. The Trump administration has initiated a pause in the wake of two deadly ICE shootings, but in a post on social media, Trump said, we cannot give up one of ICE's most important and effective crime-fighting tools, the traffic stop.
So, why the policy whiplash?
[22:20:00]
Well, apparently, Trump became furious after hearing MAGA allies criticize the suspensions. For example, prominent conservative lawyer Mike Davis, who had this message for Trump's new DHS chief. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: You work for President Trump. You don't work for Senate Democrats. You don't work for Susan Collins. The American people want illegal aliens the hell out of our country, and not just the worst of the worst, all of them.
This guy needs to stop being a wimp. He needs to stop being weak. He needs to stop being stupid. If he's not up to doing the job, get the hell out of the job and we'll put someone there who can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Ana Navarro is here with us now.
It seems like if you listen to the Mike Davises of the world, and I'm sure there are many of them --
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't.
PHILLIP: Not you, but Trump, if Trump listens to them --
NAVARRO: Shockingly, I don't.
PHILLIP: -- ... which it sounds like he does, he would miss what actually happened over the last year, which is that this hyper- aggressive immigration enforcement, the killing of people in the streets, created an enormous backlash that turned an issue that they actually had positive approval on into something that was a negative for the president.
So, are they just falling into this trap of sort of just feeding the MAGA beast incessantly until, you know, maybe they just kind of -- the political consequences are not what they think it's going to be?
NAVARRO: Well, I think it's two things. I think it is feeding the MAGA beast, as you say, but I also think that it's going along with Trump's policy of not ceding an inch when it comes to immigration policy, even if that immigration policy is not effective.
It is effective in killing people, in killing innocent people. In both the cases that happened within the last week it's -- you know, he's calling it -- Trump calls it one of the most effective tools they have. I would say that it's incredibly ineffective, not only because ICE is ending up executing people, but they're executing the wrong people.
They have targets that they think are in the cars who end up not being the people in the car. The person in Maine, Joan Sebastian Guerrero, had a work permit, which means that he's got to have been in this country under some legal color of law. You don't have a Social Security number and a work permit unless you have legal status to be -- it could be temporary, but legal status to be in this country.
So, if you are killing people that are the wrong targets, some of whom are here with some legal status, yes, it's not effective. And I just -- I also think it's not good when Donald Trump is coming in and telling people who are supposedly more of experts on this particular field how they have to do their jobs.
PHILLIP: So, apparently, Trump was, according to our reporting, caught off-guard. He was not told by Markwayne Mullin, the DHS secretary, or Tom Homan, the border czar, about the pause in traffic stops. Now, Markwayne Mullin is backtracking saying, President Trump and I are on the same page.
But, again, Shermichael, I mean, if we look at what happened here, you look at what has been happening with these traffic stops, which are extremely dangerous on both sides, isn't the right policy to pause and evaluate the practice?
SINGLETON: Well, look the immigration policy has been effective in one vein, but then there's a lot of concern as it pertains to people being shot and killed, particularly people who shouldn't have been stopped at all, at least according to this particular instance.
Now, I watched Homan on, I think, Fox News either yesterday or maybe it was earlier this morning, and he made a pretty reasonable argument, which was the reason you pause this temporarily is to reassess the training.
The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center down in South Georgia, I don't believe, at least from some of the folks I've talked to, that ICE agents are typically trained for local stops, like police officers. And so if you're going to pause this and reassess, you should do that and figure out how you increase that level of training so that they can carry on with their duties to keep them safe, but also the individuals that they're encountering in the streets.
And so just tactically, I'm not opposed to that, and I think to consider that, it makes a lot of sense, so that the progress of this can avoid these types of incidents going forward.
And then, again, look, we're in an election coming up. I understand what Mike Davis is concerned with as a radio host, but as a strategist, I have to be concerned with numbers.
PHILLIP: And not even just the benchmarks.
SINGLETON: And we want to add to our coalition and not subtract. And so when I'm looking at independents, I have to look at some of the factors that suggest to me that maybe some of this turns them off, and what does that mean for some of our vulnerable Republicans, particularly in the House. So, that's the way I'm looking at this.
PHILLIP: Like Susan Collins. I mean, this is happening in a place where they have a competitive Senate race, okay? It's not like a hypothetical thing. Susan Collins is in a fight for her life right now.
[22:25:00]
That's why she tried to take credit for the pause yesterday, and now they leave her hanging.
This seems like the worst politics. I mean, let me play -- this is Nirav Shah, who is running to replace Susan Collins as a Democratic Senate candidate in Maine. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIRAV SHAH (D), MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: Senator Collins likes to tell Mainers that she is a leader with the unique standing to pick up the phone, provide oversight, and fix things. But her record tells a completely different story. The truth is, Senator Collins is never going to hold ICE accountable because she is the one bankrolling it.
There is a straight line between Senator -- from Senator Collins to the tragedy that we saw yesterday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Trump threw her under the bus today.
MOYNIHAN: A couple things. So, one, I think the knee-jerk reaction we're seeing from him and some of the other candidates to basically call ICE a rogue agency, I don't think that that's going to gain traction either because we saw this similar sort of vein in 2020 where the backlash to a few disturbing incidents was to say, let's defund the police, that didn't go over.
And so I think in the same way the side that the left is taking -- is also going to have backlash. And people do want ICE. They don't want to see ICE abolished. And so I think the left is going further and further in a way that actually will alienate voters.
One other point, though, I think Trump feels very keenly and folks in his administration is he was elected to do this. He was elected because people wanted deportations. And I think it's important when we talk about this issue to provide the context because they see every day that passes if we aren't deporting potentially unvetted illegal criminals that there's an opportunity cost to that.
NAVARRO: They're not criminals.
MOYNIHAN: There's an opportunity cost to that. Every single day --
NAVARRO: These people were vetted. He had a legal --
MOYNIHAN: Last week, there was somebody --
NAVARRO: He had a legal permit to be in the country and he was not a criminal. And over 70 percent of the people that are getting deported and detained do not have criminal records. So, be careful with your words and be accurate on national T.V.
MOYNIHAN: My point is that --
NAVARRO: You're lying.
MOYNIHAN: I'm not lying.
NAVARRO: You're lying.
MOYNIHAN: My point is --
PHILLIP: Hang on. What's --
NAVARRO: If a man had a permanent -- had a legal status here, he was not unvetted.
PHILLIP: So, we don't --
NAVARRO: No, you don't understand how immigration works?
PHILLIP: Hang on a second. Let me just clear this up. In the two cases that we're talking about here, you have one individual who had no criminal record, who'd been in the country for 35 years, had never had an interaction with law enforcement, and he was not the target. In Maine, you had somebody -- we actually don't know what his immigration status was, but we do know that he had a work permit and he had a Social Security number that was issued to him.
MOYNIHAN: I understand, and that is a tragedy. But my --
PHILLIP: And Ana is correct that most of the arrests that are being made are people who do not have criminal records.
MOYNIHAN: I understand that.
PHILLIP: So, the worst -- this worst of the worst thing --
MOYNIHAN: My point though is that there is an opportunity cost.
PHILLIP: -- is not fully accurate.
MOYNIHAN: Last week there was a trooper in Pennsylvania who was killed by somebody who had a commercial driver's license who didn't speak English. Every day there's something that happens to Americans.
And so the administration is looking at that bigger picture. They're looking at the context --
PHILLIP: This is the thing I don't understand is what is this collective punishment thing that keeps coming up every time we talk about immigration? Why is it that someone else's crimes are the responsibility of other people who did not commit those crimes.
MOYNIHAN: There are unvetted people here.
SINGH: But to Ana's point, they weren't unvetted. That's the point. Like these are people that are here --
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGH: I think Ana said, you don't actually understand the process that someone has to go through when they come and immigrate or apply for a work --
MOYNIHAN: A lot of people didn't go through that process.
SINGH: So, here's the thing, we're talking about the two individuals that were killed.
NAVARRO: They do have a work permit, that man had been vetted.
MOYNIHAN: Those (INAUDIBLE) full-stop.
NAVARRO: If he had a work permit, that means that he had a political asylum claim pending, or he had some sort of claim pending, a residency. Something was pending if he had a legal -- a work permit. You don't get work permits to people who are here illegally.
SINGLETON: What's not -- what is not --
SINGH: And they were not on a target for the raid.
SINGLETON: What is not going to change here is the fact that ICE is not going to go away. They're going to continue to do the job. And so back to my original point, focusing on the training is incredibly important here.
And I understand some people have been inappropriately targeted. I do not negate those facts, but they're not disappearing. So, what in the hell is the resolution here? They need better training. It's just that simple.
PHILLIP: Let me let Charles have a word here, because, yes, there is a training issue, but there's also a widely reported quota that has been put into place, that has increased the pressure on these ICE and Border Patrol officers. They have flooded the streets with people, some of whom are new to these agencies, who are doing tactics that they really shouldn't be doing that are actually against DHS policy. But it doesn't matter, because the most important thing are the numbers, to Stephen Miller, at least.
BLOW: Right. But both you and Lydia brought up this idea of getting, doing away with ICE.
[22:30:00]
No one is suggesting that. In fact --
SINGLETON: Well, I'm just making a political point.
BLOW: Look, I got what you -- I want to finish though. I'll let you finish.
PHILLIP: Well, some people are suggesting to abolish ICE.
BLOW: But the stop was not put in place by someone who wants to get rid of ICE. He's running ICE. He just said, let's pause for a second.
SINGLETON: Which is what I just said. BLOW: But if you would let me finish, I would let you know what I'm
saying. So do we want to do this? No, we don't want to do this.
SINGLETON: Let's not do this craziness.
PHILLIP: Hold on--
SINGLETON: Let's calm down.
PHILLIP: Just let him finish his thought.
BLOW: What I'm saying is, the President simply can't take a win. The numbers of people who have been detained have been going up.
SINGLETON: Going down significantly.
BLOW: No.
PHILLIP: Shermichael, please, let him finish his thought. Thank you.
BLOW: So, a temporary pause would not have harmed or done away. Do you want to talk?
SINGLETON: Go ahead.
BLOW: This thing. I'm going to make you. I'm not going to -- I'm going to make sure you understand that. I'm not going to get --
PHILLIP: When people do that to you, you get really upset about it. Just please let me finish. That's fair. Understand.
BLOW: Get some duct tape because he can't seem to stop talking.
PHILLIP: Just go ahead, Charles.
BLOW: What I'm trying to say is this.
A temporary pause wouldn't harm them at all. But Trump is so invested in the optics of looking tough rather than actually doing the job that he wants to do, which is to get rid of more people, which is not something that I want, that I'm in favor of because they are so tilted towards people who are not dangerous. They're not criminals other than having been in the country illegally.
Like this whole worst of the worst thing is a complete farce. And in fact, the radio host we just played said that they don't care about the worst of the worst anymore. Every single person, and what the President didn't do was acknowledge those deaths at all.
So basically, these people are collateral damage in his war.
SINGLETON: Would you see the point of pausing temporarily for further training.
BLOW: That's what I said. PHILLIP: Okay, let me read this viewer comment that we just got in
from cnn.com/abby. This person says people elected Trump for more deportations, but not by any means necessary, especially violent means.
I actually think this comment really hits the nail on the head because when you, there's a lot of polling that says a lot of different things. When you really drill down on what the broad strokes of it are, that Americans didn't like what was happening in the Biden administration.
They didn't like the perceived open borders, laissez-faire immigration policy. They wanted more enforcement, but they really recoiled at the mass deportations, the spectacle on the streets of American cities.
And particularly when things got to Minneapolis, the backlash was huge. And I don't remember who said it, but Trump actually did back down.
Don't forget that. He backed down after Minneapolis because he saw the same polls that we were looking at.
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, AND FORMER PENTAGON DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think this is I mean, that comment hits home because this was the reason why, you know, one of the reasons, many reasons why Donald Trump came in. And it was a focal point of his campaign that we are going to focus on immigration.
But the means on how you do that and how you execute the mission really matter. And I think to what Lydia and both and Shermichael also were saying about this idea of training.
I know there are people on the left that suggest that ICE does not have a role or should get rid of ICE, I don't believe that. I do think ICE has a role to play. But you have to have properly trained and equipped agents. And stopping someone in a car and shooting them through the passenger window while they have a child in the back is not part of the training.
And I can tell you that, it is not part of any, probably, any law enforcement training. So I think the President, to reverse this argument pause is going to backfire on him. And you do have a very critical Senate race in Maine. And now Susan Collins, yet again, is on her back foot on this.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, AND IHEART RADIO HOST, "BLEEP WITH ANA NAVARRO": And let's also remember that some of the people who've been killed by ICE in these confrontations, these vehicular confrontations and shot by ICE, some of whom have not died, are U.S. citizens.
SINGH: Yes.
PHILLIP: All right.
Now, turn over your phones to investigators. That is the order that some White House officials are now facing as the search for the source of the Air Force One leak is now on. We'll be right back.
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PHILLIP: Tonight, show us your phone. A request coming from the White House chief of staff, Susie Wiles, and the FBI director, Kash Patel, who personally orchestrated a leak investigation last week at the White House.
CNN reports that the investigation was aimed at determining who in the government leaked information about the security deficiencies of Trump's new Air Force One, a $400 billion jet that was a gift from Qatar.
Now, officials were asked to turn over their phones to investigators, and some reportedly refused. CNN's exclusive reporting on the leak investigation comes just days after DOJ sent subpoenas to four of the "New York Times" journalists who reported on the security concerns. Now, Trump privately has been fuming over disclosures about the new plane, according to our sources.
First of all, I just want to point out the person who brought this whole thing to everyone's attention was Donald Trump. He was the first person that 8:42 a.m. on July 8th to send out a Truth Social post that says, for old time's sake, I will be taking the old Air Force One from Turkey to Mildenhall.
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And he says the new Air Force One is going to go ahead. So he touched off this whole thing.
BLOW: Right. Listen, I am really big on press freedoms.
I do not like this crackdown where they have people going to reporters' houses in particular. I'm really nervous about this idea of Kash Patel sitting in the White House collecting phones for the administration because they're embarrassed. But this is not the first administration to do this.
And it really worries me from a press freedom perspective as to what presidents will do in order to crack down on leakers. It's a real problem. It is a press problem that is bigger than any one administration.
Trump is doing a bad thing now, but he's not the first. And we need to deal with the fact that the President cannot pressure reporters to give up sources. Full stop.
PHILLIP: Yes, the Times has asked, by the way, just now tonight to quash these subpoenas of its journalists. But, yes, you're right, Charles. I mean, he's not the first President. He's probably not even the President who's used the subpoena power the most. But I think the part of this that is so just interesting and very
Trumpian is that he's embarrassed about the plane. He rushed a $400 million retrofit of a plane and it wasn't ready for prime time and now he's embarrassed. That's what this is about.
SINGH: He's not only embarrassed. I mean, the plane was never going to be secure enough and to allow the time that it would need to retrofit it completely. I mean, the comm system that goes into Air Force One, the evasion systems that it has on board that's just not going to be possible to install.
And so the President, while he was really proud about touting this plane, he totally was embarrassed. And that's why he's cracking down and trying to figure out the leaks of where this all came from. But the reality is that there's so many people that are involved in what it takes to have Air Force One take off from the advance staff on the ground to people in the White House to the military.
It can come from anywhere. And it's something probably as small as the plane's just not secure. And then it becomes, you know, a story that is widely reported.
And so I share Charles's concern about crackdown of press freedoms. We certainly dealt with leaks in the Biden White House and the Biden administration that were concerning and sometimes dealt with issues of national security. But you can't clamp down on freedom of the press either.
SINGLETON: You know, I think Charles is right about most Presidents just not wanting to deal with leaks to the press. And I remember the Obama administration was incredibly aggressive and I understand why.
And for me, I don't know where I land on this, because in one vein, I don't want national security issues being printed or written about. But on your show, when we first talked about this plane, that was my biggest reason to be against it, because I was worried about the President's safety on a plane from the Qataris.
I don't know what the hell is going on with Boeing. It's taken them way too long to finish these planes.
PHILLIP: Isn't this actually to Boeing's -- in Boeing's defense, they have --
SINGLETON: I guess, somewhat maybe.
PHILLIP: They can't cut corners.
SINGLTON: They can't. But Abby, they're behind, though. They're behind the deadline.
PHILLIP: -- is that it is not an easy thing to do. It takes time.
SINGLETON: It does.
PHILLIP: Yes. They're going to be delays. But Trump wants a quick fix. And yes, I mean, I think that actually, there is a strong argument to be made that it is in the public interest to know.
SINGLETON: Well, but I just wonder, I mean, Charles, you're a journalist. What's the line for what you don't?
PHILLIP: Presidents on this plane, right? If there are going to be presidents on this plane and they want to make it seem like the plane is safe, but the plane is not safe.
NAVARRO: But there's two things. One, it strikes me that this White House is taking far more consequences to find out who leaked information about this plane, which I feel like, to your point, Donald Trump blabbed all about than they did for with Signalgate, for example, which to me seems like a far more serious concern of national security.
And also, it's Trump who told us he wasn't going to be on the new Air Force One. It's Trump who told us the Israelis had told him that the Iranians were targeting him, it's Trump who can't shut up about being the number one target of the Iranians. So maybe somebody should go look at his phone and his mouth.
PHILLIP: All right. Let's leave that one there.
Next for us, the Secretary of Defense has a new message for the military. Troops who are 30 years and older will now be tested for low testosterone. We'll discuss that next.
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PHILLIP: Tonight, as the war in Iran continues, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is announcing a new unrelated initiative.
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PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I'm authorizing a new screening program for testosterone deficiency for our service members, ensuring you have the right testosterone levels to operate at your absolute best. Because it's well-established science that as we age, testosterone levels often naturally drop.
Under the supervision of our world-class medical professionals, warfighters age 30 and older are going to be tested annually as part of their periodic health assessment. Those under 30 can voluntarily choose to get the test as well.
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If treatment is recommended, it's entirely your choice to receive testosterone replacement therapy.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: The Pentagon didn't respond to questions about what research or academic studies underpinned this move, though concerns about testosterone deficits in military units who are under intense stress and demanding conditions are not entirely new.
The Pentagon also didn't say if, for example, female troops would be screened and treated for hormonal changes as necessary. They enter menopause, for example. Experts have debated for years how to diagnose problems related to low testosterone levels and whether they should be treated by actually replacing the hormone.
And this is something that I'm sure the Pentagon is grappling with, but it is not an onion clip that the defense secretary is out there making this a top policy priority for the Pentagon.
SINGLETON: It's a big deal for guys. I mean, once you turn 30, your testosterone levels begin to decrease. I called a number of folks I know, active, retired vets, and they all said like, yes, dude, we're taking TRT peptides because our testosterone levels do indeed decrease.
Now, I'm not at that point yet. Thank God, Charles. I think about it, man, how I feel.
BLOW: No, I'm not, no.
SINGLETON: But when we get older as men, that is something we have to deal with. Generally speaking. I'm not saying you, Charles. Let me be clear.
PHILLIP: But you know, there is a lot of -- I mean, on the health side, I think there is a lot of disputed science about what to do about it.
SINGLETON: Yes, there's a --
PHILLIP: And whether or not mass surveillance of everyone for testosterone problems is even a solution. And, of course, on the political side, the Democrats are pointing out this is gender affirming care and it completely debunks all of Republicans attacks on trans people.
Tammy Duckworth says sounds like gender affirming care to me. And then the Michigan congressman says this is the same administration that tells you not to take vaccines and rails against gender affirming care.
Look, even if you put aside the gender affirming care, I actually think the vaccines thing is important. They got rid of the flu vaccine and a bunch of --
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK POST": Everyone got sick with the flu --
PHILLIP: And these warfighters, some of them actually died as a result of this. So, I mean, there are really important things that affect everyone in the military, not just men, not just men of a certain age, everyone.
MOYNIHAN: Well, let's be clear. This is a completely optional thing. They're not forcing testosterone down your throat. I think it's good. I want lethal war. They're made to have high testosterone.
But these are totally optional, right? It's not -- we're not forcing everyone to get the COVID vaccine, we're not forcing everyone to take testosterone, that would be crazy. But there is science to suggest a lot of men have low testosterone and taking it could be good for their health.
I think information is power. I don't think it's something to get outraged over.
BLOW: The bigger point to me is that you're still, this is fixating on a 1950s G.I. Joe form of military. And what in particular, one of the biggest wars right now is teaching us is that modern warfare is completely different. The war between Russia, Ukraine.
We need different kinds of fighters. It has nothing to do with Australia.
PHILLIP: This is super important.
Today or this week as well, Pete Hegseth blocked the promotion of seven senior Navy officers, five of whom were women or people of color to star admiral ranks to the two-star admiral ranks, that means that there would be no female active duty naval officers likely to be promoted to admiral at all this year. So G.I. Joe, military, and women being blocked almost completely from the highest ranks.
NAVARRO: And also, listen, I live in Miami, which I think is probably the international capital of testosterone replacement therapy. And let me just say, I think it's a little irresponsible, and I would say get ready for the lawsuits because testosterone replacement means that men become infertile.
BLOW: That's true.
NAVARRO: Testosterone replacement means --
MOYNIHAN: But it's just testing.
NAVARRO: Testosterone replacement, well, it's more than testing because you're basically, you know, it's promoting testosterone replacement for anybody who gets tested and then has a low testosterone. What's the point of testing you if it's not there? It's also, there are a lot of --
BLOW: I want a bunch of friends about it. I want to be informed about it.
PHILLIP: We've got to leave it there. This is a hot topic for the next panel.
Next for us, the panelists react to your feedback from cnn.com/abby. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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PHILLIP: And now for your feedback from cnn.com/abby.
The first one on the 2020 election question, pretty simple. If you're trying to get a Trump administration position, you're not going to say that Trump lost the election in a public hearing.
That seems evident.
BLOW: Yes, we agree.
PHILLIP: Okay, and then the next one. So Trump is more upset about the fake about the -- sorry about the news being leaked and the actual fact that there are security concerns about the plane.
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SINGH: I think that's also fair to agree with. Yes.
MOYNIHAN: Publicizing it doesn't help. I mean, I can understand why he's a little on edge about his securities. A lot of assassination attempts.
SINGLETON: I have a mixed bag on this one.
NAVARRO: The biggest security risk in the White House is Donald Trump. I want to let you know every time anybody is (inaudible) and ask him a question.
PHILLIP: I got to let you know it's Wednesday. So that means there's a new episode of "Confessions and Obsessions," it is streaming right now. You've got some familiar faces this week, including Cari Champion and S.E. Cupp, they're revealing some wild secrets.
"Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
