Return to Transcripts main page
CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Hits Red States After Last Jobs Report Before Midterms; Trump Releases More Taxpayer-Funded Campaign Ads; GOP Pauses Spending In North Carolina Senate Race As Candidate Lags; Mullin Points Talarico, Says Scripture Use For Justifying Behavior Is Dangerous; Christie Predicts Vance Won't Be GOP's 2028 Candidate. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 02, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, the president hits the trail as the last jobs report before the midterm paints a dismal picture. But the spin is in.
BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You missed the number by about 66 percent.
KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: We're very happy with the numbers this week.
HEMMER: Okay. So, you're --
PHILLIP: Plus, nervous Republicans yank money from one Senate race as Democrats expand the battleground map.
Also --
MARKWAYNE MULLIN, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: When someone wants to start justifying their behavior based on scripture, that's dangerous.
PHILLIP: Markwayne Mullin meet Pete Hegseth.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Today, at my direction, I'm establishing the Office of Religious Affairs. As Psalm 33:12 extols us, blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.
PHILLIP: And Chris Christie handicaps the 2028 field from himself --
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ): I'm going to look at it.
PHILLIP: -- to J.D. Vance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is going to reek with the stink of Donald Trump.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Ashley Allison, Joe Borelli, Sabrina Singh, Melik Abdul, and Geraldo Rivera.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
With about a month to go until Election Day, the White House appears to be in panic mode as it tries to convince Republicans that President Trump is on the ballot. The administration has now created at least 13 campaign-style ads featuring the president, and American taxpayers are the ones picking up the tab. $20 million has been allocated for that effort, and that money is coming from Customs and Border Protection.
Tonight, Trump spent his evening in Alabama as he continues his red state campaign blitz. But the dismal new jobs report is further complicating his closing pitch, and it's adding the pressure, to the pressure that the GOP is facing. Employers added 29,000 jobs last month. That is well below expectations. And the unemployment rate rose to 4.2 percent.
This is the last time that we will have a jobs report before the midterms, and here's the administration selling it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSETT: And so the sup-- thing about the jobs numbers is that they sort of bounce up and down, but if you look at the data from this week, it's proving that Trumponomics is really working, and this is one reason why markets are celebrating so much. And so we're very, very happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, before we open it up to the table here, we invite you at home to join the debate. Go to cnn.com/abby and weigh in there. We'll get to some of your comments throughout the show.
President Trump commissioning ads to honestly in many cases praise him -- is the latest symptom of the broader problem, which is that he seems to believe that everything in this midterms is about him and can be solved with public relations. What do you make, Geraldo, of the fact that he is the driving force behind 13 ads, $20 million, and the subject is how great Donald Trump is?
GERALDO RIVERA, PEABODY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST: He's always had a gigantic, a gargantuan ego, so he's trying to s- he's trying to be the American voter. He's trying to be his mind, his thinking, he loves Trump, Trump is great, Trump is smooth, Trump is hero, Trump is innovative, Trump is this, that, and the other thing. And he's forcing people to get that impression from him, and he's having the people pay for it.
It's very ironic. I think that there's some real trouble in this jobs report, and I think that he has to address it. It may actually, I think, harbor well for Michigan and El-Sayed. Why do I say that? Because if black Michiganders turn out, that will be a turn in the Senate. There will be a switch of, from El-Sayed that will beat the Democrat taking over for the Republican who is retiring.
So, I think that this is a big deal, and I think that people have to pay attention to how the president is spending our money. He's spending our money to enhance his own ego, to soothe himself in a troubled world. And whether it works, I don't know.
PHILLIP: So, you point out the black voters in Michigan and probably elsewhere in the country, this jobs report does have bad news for black voters. Actually, frankly, the second Trump term has been a lot of bad news for black voters.
[22:05:00]
The unemployment rate overall has gone from 6 percent in August to 7 percent. It also is up almost a full point since Trump came into office. And for women, it has gone from 5.9 percent, black women, 5.9 percent, to 7.3 percent in September.
Again, I was watching the financial news this morning as the jobs numbers were coming out, and I think Kevin Hassett's right. The markets are celebrating because they're not going to get a rate hike, they think, you know, business is doing well, but no mention of the average consumer the person, the fact that wage growth is still being overwhelmed by inflation.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: A couple of things. First, when America -- there's a saying that when America catches a cold, black people get pneumonia, and this jobs report is exactly showing that.
And I think the point to you about black voters turning out, when you look at a state like Michigan, when you look at a state like Texas, when you look at a state like Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, places where you -- Wisconsin with the governor's race, places where the black vote in almost every election, if it goes a different way, can be the determinant of the outcome, and this election will be no different.
And so what -- Republicans will not get a majority of black vote even though there was this like theory for a long time that they were going to start pulling off black men and whatnot. That is not going to happen this cycle because the promises that this administration made to black voters never came true.
But what is also important is that black voters have a frustration right now as well. It doesn't mean they're not going to show up, but black voters tried to warn the electorate that this was going to happen to them, which is why 92 percent of black women voted for Kamala Harris and 72 percent of black men voted -- or 78 percent of black men voted for Kamala Harris.
So, the question is not only do these numbers hurt Donald Trump, but the question is, will Democrats invest in these last 30-some plus days to make sure that black voters feel heard, feel committed to, have an agenda that will get them out of this pneumonia symptom from this administration? PHILLIP: The A.P. poll from this past week says Americans believe that Trump's policies are what's causing high prices. It's by 65 percent to 33 percent margin. So, Trump trying to claim that it's everything but him is going to fly?
JOE BORELLI, MANAGING DIRECTOR, CHARTWELL STRATEGY: Well, let's just put the Black unemployment number in context. We're talking about a 7 percent number. Do you know what it was under President Barack Obama? It was averaging 11.7 percent. So, if you're upset --
PHILLIP: You're talking about during the Great Recession?
BORELLI: Black unemployment under President Obama was 11.7 percent, and you know who got it down to 5?
PHILLIP: Are you talking about during the Great Recession, though?
BORELLI: And do you know who got it down to 5.3 percent? It was Donald Trump. Donald Trump brought more black jobs to people in his first term than any president prior, so that's a good thing.
PHILLIP: I don't --
BORELLI: The jobs -- I'm sorry, are my figures wrong?
PHILLIP: Hold on.
BORELLI: The black unemployment number under President Trump --
ALLISON: 600,000 Black women have lost their --
BORELLI: -- was 5.3 percent.
ALLISON: 600,000 Black women --
BORELLI: The black unemployment number under Barack Obama averaged 11.7.
ALLISON: -- have lost their jobs.
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: You can't just keep going back and comparing, I would say this to you.
BORELLI: I am going back to put it in historical context.
SINGH: But I would say -- but just to -- but context is important, and that A.P. poll, I think, really is a good example of --
BORELLI: And if we're talking --
SINGH: Well, can I just say, like, Americans --
BORELLI: Well, I was speaking. You interrupted me. I didn't interrupt you.
SINGH: Americans, and, like, well, to Ashley's point about black men, black women, they're not feeling like this economy is working for them, and that is because of this decision -- of the decisions that this administration has made. Donald Trump chose to get into a tariff fight with our neighbors.
Donald Trump chose to start a war with Iran. Donald Trump chose to cut people off of their healthcare, and that's why you're seeing the polls, the numbers respond, because it's the choices of Donald Trump and this administration that are hurting people. And that's why, hopefully, I think you're right, that you will see Democrats investing and turning out the people who actually went and voted for Donald Trump and feel like he's not looking out for them.
PHILLIP: Trump is not presiding over a recession. So, why is the unemployment rate for any group of voters going up? It's going up for black voters.
BORELLI: Well, actually I have an answer to that, if everyone would stop interrupting me last time.
PHILLIP: It's going up for other minority groups.
BORELLI: 485,000 people entered the job market. 485,000 people in the U.S. entered the job market. The jobs were created. No one's getting laid off.
I'm not saying this is a rosy picture.
RIVERA: Black women who work for the federal government are getting laid off.
BORELLI: It's not a rosy picture.
PHILLIP: So, wait, what's happening to -- okay, so --
BORELLI: Manufacturing jobs are up more than expected. Construction jobs are up more than expected. The areas that President Trump has targeted --
PHILLIP: Okay. So, are you going to explain why black women and black men are losing their jobs, Joe?
BORELLI: The areas that President Trump has targeted have gained jobs.
PHILLIP: Because that's what we're asking you to explain.
BORELLI: All races have gained jobs, in manufacturing and in construction, where the president's targeted.
PHILLIP: Joe, why are you telling me things that are contradicted by the plain facts? Black women have a 7.3 percent unemployment rate, which is up from 5.9 percent in August. What explains that?
BORELLI: But it's a problem. Again, I started talking, everyone interrupted me.
PHILLIP: Well, yes, because we're asking you to make sense. BORELLI: And you all jumped down my throat and I'm trying to read a laundry list of things.
[22:10:00]
ALLISON: So, what explains that? What explains it then?
PHILLIP: You're telling me that the economy is so great.
BORELLI: I gave you the Barack Obama numbers, and you didn't care about them. You said, it doesn't matter.
PHILLIP: And I didn't say I didn't care. I asked you a simple question, or maybe to acknowledge a simple fact, which is that Barack Obama was president during an economic recession in which the unemployment rate was high for a lot of Americans.
BORELLI: Yes.
PHILLIP: President Trump came in and he inherited an almost full employment, okay? So, he's also telling Americans, this is the golden age. Why is it only the golden age for some people, but not for others?
MELIK ABDUL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I have an answer to this question. If you actually look at the numbers to see where those job losses are for black men and black women, we're seeing that a lot of layoffs at the federal, local, and state level.
Now, we need to be asking a question, I would say, as black people, why are we largely concentrated in those type of public sector jobs? Yes, the numbers are not looking great, and that is something that the administration is going to have to grapple with as we head into the midterm cycle. But it isn't that, you know, black people, because we were concentrated in a specific industry, those seems to be the reason why our numbers are actually going up as far as the unemployment number.
ALLISON: There's additional context to that. One is the reason why there is concentration for black people in the federal government, particularly in the state and local government, is because that was a pathway for many folks into the middle class.
ABDUL: Yes, it was.
ALLISON: Right? And so --
ABDUL: For the boomers.
ALLISON: -- surprise, surprise that the, you know, last in, first out type of thing, right?
ABDUL: Yes.
ALLISON: So, black people get hired last, they get fired first, and so we get impacted. But also in corporate America with the slashing of DEI properties, that happened across corporations. In California, you hear people that are in industries, budgets getting shrunk. Black people are not just concentrated in the federal government. It's wage workers. It's small businesses closing that can't employ their employees anymore.
ABDUL: Yes, but when you look at the numbers -- but I just want to make a point about the DEI point, though. When you talk about the whole DEI point, it isn't that black people were -- it was black people being laid off because of all of the DEI policies. The people who actually occupied those positions were white women and I think Asian. It wasn't that black people were just so caught up in this DEI point.
PHILLIP: Well, here's what I'll -- here's the one thing I'll say, and then we'll move on. But the case from the administration is that this is an environment in which Trump is reshaping the economy. He's moving jobs from state and local governments or government in general to the private sector. That is clearly not happening for black voters for whatever reason, and that is the problem. Not so much in and of itself that they're losing jobs in government, but they're not picking up jobs in the private sector to compensate for it.
ABDUL: And the administration's going to have to answer to that.
PHILLIP: I want to just quickly play this. This is Pete Hegseth. He's actually the defense secretary. And he is encouraging troops to vote, and he's doing so by saying that they're now getting a day off. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: This is a new and apolitical War Department with all the right priorities. Under the leadership of President Trump, we're upholding things that are central to the defense of our republic and our American way of life. So, take that day to fill out your absentee ballot, help your family members do the same, or go to the polling place yourself and exercise your right to vote. It's about time we prioritize that in this department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL: That's a good idea.
PHILLIP: I'm curious about what you think. It's probably fine, but it's interesting to me that Pete Hegseth has -- this is not the first, it's the second time that he's really made a hard push to service members to vote in this particular midterms. Do you think that they think that this is a way for them to bank some votes?
RIVERA: I hope not. I can't read Pete's mind. But it seemed to me that -- I, for instance, have always been in favor of making Election Day a federal holiday. I think it should be so everybody votes. Turnout should be close to 100 percent, rather than whatever, 65 or 70, whatever it is now.
I think that we should celebrate the act of voting, and I think that would auger well for minorities, for people low --
PHILLIP: Look, Democrats are in favor of that. Republicans are the ones who typically are not, actually.
SINGH: I don't think it's -- I agree with you. Like, I mean, what's ironic about this is he's saying the military's apolitical, and it should be. But under Pete Hegseth and this administration, it's actually become the most politicized military we've ever seen.
I support his message to go out and vote. I think that is a good thing to exercise your right to vote. But it is interesting that he's doing it, you know, right now. And, you know, I think we all know where he stands, of course, on this issue, on supporting Republicans. I mean, he has literally taken time out of his, I mean, workout schedule to go campaign for candidates. And that is -- we've never seen a secretary of defense do that before.
And you know what? But it's not mean because I would rather a secretary of defense focus on their job than just doing workouts with the troops all the time.
[22:15:02]
PHILLIP: So, Joe, I mean, a federal holiday for all Americans to be able to go out and cast a ballot?
BORELLI: I think that's a great idea. I mean, look, I'm not sure what other midterm election Secretary Hegseth was secretary of the armed services, right, just this one. So, it makes sense that he would be doing it at this moment in time. It's not ironic or undermining any sort of other aspect that he's doing this.
ALLISON: You know --
BORELLI: And I've been reliably told by every four-star general who appears on T.V. that President Trump is embarrassing the military, and Secretary Hegseth is terrible, so I can't imagine any Democrats opposing this considering the view that I've been told the military has.
ALLISON: Well, that's actually an interesting point.
BORELLI: Which, of course, is not true, and that's why Democrats are complaining.
ALLISON: People have said that recruitment numbers have gone up, but when you have someone, your boss, who says that you're a weirdo, a beardo, a fatty, a whatever, and you put -- you get them in a situation, the military folks are following the commander-in-chief, which they are supposed to do, and your one act of agency is to be able to vote.
And so if you actually think this war that is putting your life on the line to protect it is not being handled well, encouraging them to go vote might actually backfire, because they might not want you and your party of leadership to continue to put them in harm's way. ABDUL: Well, we shouldn't assume that -- you know, that all of them are Republicans. Yes, go out and vote.
PHILLIP: I don't think we should assume anything at all, actually, especially not in this election.
Next for us, Republicans seem to be waving the white flag in one state already, and a senator reveals the explicit texts that he sent to Trump.
Plus, Markwayne Mullin criticizes James Talarico for using scripture, as Pete Hegseth also uses scripture to push religion at the Pentagon.
And Trump also releases a God Made Trump ad. We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, a possible white flag as the top Republican Senate super PAC jumps ship from the North Carolina Senate race. It's a bad sign for Republican candidate Michael Whatley, who remains significantly behind Democrat and former Governor Roy Cooper in the polls. The PAC has already spent $30 million in North Carolina, but sources tell CNN that they are now diverting resources to the Senate race in Kansas of all places. That's where incumbent Senator Roger Marshall is facing a tough challenge from Pastor Adam Hamilton.
Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer embraced this news, claiming that the shift in focus to Kansas shows which direction the Senate majority is headed. Trump was candid when he was asked about the North Carolina situation today. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I am worried about him. I hope he wins. He's a great man. He was a great leader for the whole Republican Party when I won, and he'd be a great senator. And as you know, the man, Cooper, he's got a lot of bad crime numbers. He's got horrible crime numbers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, it's not just Kansas. Both Vance and Trump spent the week in red states this week. Vance was in Florida where they have to tighten up ship down there. Mississippi Democrats are looking at their state and saying maybe they have a chance in a Senate seat there. Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma. I mean, even the -- I mean, the Oklahoma thing may just be an insurance policy, but it does tell you something about where the leakage is happening.
ABDUL: Well, I remember it was a few years ago when, and as a Mississippi native, Mike Espy was running against Cindy Hyde-Smith. And there was this notion then that Mike Espy was going to be, because he was the former agriculture -- secretary of agriculture under Clinton. It's assumption that, oh, now we have a chance. I feel like Democrats have said this before. But on the North Carolina point, though, I don't know many Republicans who thought because it was a candidate issue, that we really had a chance of keeping that seat in North Carolina. But it isn't something that -- this is something that we've seen before as far as diverting money.
I remember 2022, Mitch McConnell, his Senate Leadership PAC ended up diverting money to actually help J.D. Vance get over the finish line, and because they diverted money from the Blake Masters race in Arizona.
So, this isn't something, this is something that we see all the time. You actually have to push your resources in certain places. And because of the popularity of the Republican Party at this point, it depends -- it's going to be on a state-by-state basis. Donald Trump is not going to go to probably Maine, but he is going to go to the states --
SINGH: Well, Susan Collins also said, don't come here.
ABDUL: Yes. But he is going to go to states where you can --
RIVERA: Ohio is definitely gone.
SINGH: Yes. Well, you're --
RIVERA: Sherrod Brown's definitely --
PHILLIP: I'm sorry, one sec. Ohio, you think, is gone?
RIVERA: Personally, I do.
PHILLIP: Governor and Senate?
RIVERA: Just my vibe. Full disclosure, I backed Sherrod Brown in 2000 24. But he beat the national trend, the presidential vote, but he couldn't overcome the hump. But now he's looking -- Sherrod Brown is looking like he's coming back. He's coming back strong.
ALLISON: And he's a known name, yes.
RIVERA: And the whole thing with the data centers. That's such a big issue, such a toxic issue in Ohio.
SINGH: I don't think you're wrong that like every cycle we see this sort of scramble of money get sort of diverted when more seats become in play. I think what's different here, though, is the amount of money that's being spent and how much is getting moved. On top of that, though, I've never seen a president, a head of party, go to a deep red ruby state, like Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas.
And I think Texas is a big problem because you have a very flawed candidate with Ken Paxton, and Republicans have been forced to spend so much money there, money that could've been better spent in a race like North Carolina to put that more in play.
[22:25:10]
But now, I think Senate leadership and the administration is basically writing that off because they have no choice but to prop up candidates who are running against Democrats that we weren't talking about months ago, but now we are.
PHILLIP: And, I mean, would North Carolina have been more competitive if Trump had not picked a fight?
RIVERA: Roy Cooper is very popular.
ALLISON: Cooper is very popular.
RIVERA: Yes.
ABDUL: Yes, that would've been an uphill climb for --
ALLISON: I think it's a little bit about candidates. I'm looking at it as the present, but also the future. Not just future in terms of candidate, but like Democrats have not won North Carolina in a presidential since -- a presidential race since 2008.
SINGH: Yes.
ALLISON: We've lost it.
SINGH: Yes.
ALLISON: So, for the fact that, like, this seat is now switching to that Roy Cooper could win, very popular, and that Republicans are pulling out, Democrats will actually look at North Carolina differently in 2028 also when they're calculating their map and who is a possible candidate. So, there's like immediate and further repercussions or consequence to this.
The other thing is, though, okay, if Republicans are pulling funds out of North Carolina. Democrats will leave funds in there to make sure it doesn't like slide away. But where are Democrats going to put that money at, right? So, Chuck Schumer has a decision. Is he going to dump it all in Texas? Is he going to give a little to Angie Nixon because she said that they're not really supporting her right now? Is he going to go to Abdul? Those are also political questions that Democrats need to be paying attention to because it's signaling which way the party is going.
And, again, there are collateral effects because if you don't support some candidates that black voters are interested in, Latino voters are interested in, they will say, are you turning your backs on us?
BORELLI: Parties have to have money to be able to divert money. And we've seen consistently through this cycle that the Republican Party and Republican PACs have outraised and outspent Democrats.
ALLISON: You all have more money than God.
SINGH: Yes. BORELLI: But, you know, North Carolina, as you pointed out correctly, was always going to be a bit of a problem, but we do have opportunities. We saw Sununu polling well in New Hampshire. That was surprising. Back in late September, he was polling pretty well. We have opportunities in Minnesota. We have opportunities in Michigan that we thought we'd never see.
But when you put money into places like Kansas, where our candidate might be running neck and neck, or even Texas, where Fox News poll had him down by two with likely voters, where you have a gubernatorial candidate that is popular and likely to win in Kansas and Texas, that's where the money, that's where the party organization, that's where the Republican effort could actually go in to make a difference. So, I think it is the right choice.
SINGH: Actually, the governor's race is much closer in Texas than you think. I mean --
BORELLI: I'll bet you right now Abbott's going to win significantly.
SINGH: It is within, I mean, a margin of error, and I think that Greg Abbott is having to spend a lot more than he thought not only for himself but for Ken Paxton, because you admitted it, Republicans are dumping money into Kansas and Texas. These were ruby-red states that were never --
BORELLI: They're also dumping money into Minnesota, Minnesota and Michigan.
PHILLIP: We should talk about Florida, which --
ALLISON: Right, yes.
BORELLI: The advantage in Florida, because we could pick up the -- the advantage in Florida is we could pick up seats in Boca Raton, Tampa, and Orlando with that.
PHILLIP: Yes, but you could lose in Miami-Dade. You could lose --
BORELLI: This is significant pickup from Florida. There's a net gain in --
PHILLIP: These incumbents in Miami-Dade --
BORELLI: There's going to be a net gain in Florida, no question.
PHILLIP: I mean, the --
BORELLI: I'm not saying we can't win a seat.
PHILLIP: -- gubernatorial and the Senate races should not even be a conversation.
ALLISON: Should not be a discussion, and they are.
PHILLIP: And it's a conversation. ALLISON: And they are. But I will tell you also something --
BORELLI: Do you think the Senate race in Florida is a conversation?
ALLISON: It is a conversation. If you look at -- it is a conversation actually because that's why J.D. Vance had to go down there and try and pop his mouth.
BORELLI: I'll bet nickels for all of you guys.
ALLISON: But here's the thing.
BORELLI: Texas, Florida.
ALLISON: It might not -- but, Joe, this is the point. It's like I'm not fighting who's going to win. I'm talking directly as someone who has run campaigns and like am looking at the map and the strategy right now, is that these races shouldn't be in play is the point.
And the --
BORELLI: What about Michigan? Should Michigan be in play?
ALLISON: Perhaps. I mean, the Democratic primary was tight, and so when you have a tight Democratic primary, you have to do the work and -- right, you have to do that work to close the gap.
The only other thing I'll just say about Mississippi, why I actually find it interesting --
BORELLI: What about Minnesota?
ALLISON: Could you just let me finish on Mississippi real quick. The only thing about Mississippi that I think is actually interesting is that folks have decided to reinvest in the South and the progressive movement and the Democratic movement, right? It took time to turn Georgia blue during the 2020 election. It doesn't happen overnight. So, I actually think the infrastructure in Mississippi for a Scott Colom is a lot stronger than it was for Espy's.
PHILLIP: There have also been some signs that black voter enthusiasm is up.
ALLISON: After Calais, after the voting rights victory, yes.
PHILLIP: Yes, after the voting rights.
RIVERA: You know, Latino voters also. They are so angry over immigration. That's who we're going to have to watch.
PHILLIP: That's the other thing, yes.
RIVERA: I think that that could be the Trump card --
ALLISON: That's the coalition.
RIVERA: Florida, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, that's the Hispanic ban.
[22:29:47]
PHILLIP: All right, next for us, the DHS secretary attacks James Talarico, calling it dangerous for anyone to use scripture to justify their behavior. And it comes on the same day that the Trump administration put out this God made Trump ad, and the same week that Pete Hegseth pushed religion at the Pentagon. We'll discuss.
[22:30:10]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, a clip from DHS Secretary Markwayne Mullin about Texas Senate candidate James Talarico has critics asking Mullin to point the mirror at his own party. Listen.
[22:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARKWAYNE MULLIN, UNITED STATES HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Back to this guy in Texas.
I don't understand how he can say that God is what, binary? And I don't understand when they start talking about all these different genders. I've only dated one and it's called a female.
When someone wants to start justifying their behavior based on scripture, that's dangerous. That's very dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: This all comes as the White House creates an ad suggesting God made Trump to save the country. And earlier this week, Pete Hegseth announced the creation of the Office of Religious Affairs at the Pentagon and didn't shy away from quoting scripture in his speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES DEFENSE SECRETARY: Psalm 33:12 extols us, "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord." Our department is, you might say, putting on the full armor of God. Because while we wage physical war, we all know the real battle is spiritual.
God is good. Evil is not. And America's military must understand the difference.
With the sentiment of the sixth chapter of the book of Isaiah, Lord, here I am. Send me.
Send me to fight the redcoats, send me to fight the communists, send me to fight the Islamists. Send me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Kind of a bad week for Mullin to be railing against using religion to justify your policy or whatever it is in government.
JOE BORELLI, FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL, AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, CHARTWELL STRATEGY GROUP: Yes, I think I'm a little fumbled by Mullin because it's clear that the Republican Party is very open about talking about faith, and in most cases Christian faith, as a role to play in how Republicans govern and what they choose to do. I think maybe it wasn't a fumble by Markwayne Mullin if you were trying to reinsert the conversation about the things that Talarico has said about religion, which have been an issue in this campaign.
Republicans have brought them up consistently about God's gender, about how he hates Christianity. So anytime the Republicans --
PHILLIP: About what?
BORELLI: He said he hates Christianity. He said he's a Christian who hates Christianity.
So if we're talking about things that Talarico has said about religion in general, I think it's a good day for the Republican Party if we're not talking about some of the other things they say that in the Middle East.
GERALDO RIVERA, PEABODY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST, AND NEWSNATION CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
BORELLI: I mean, is religion a bad thing then, do you think?
RIVERA: I don't think religion is a bad thing. I think religion is a bad thing when people stuff their religion down your throat.
I happen to be Jewish and Catholic. I see a lot on both sides. And to me, when religion becomes the main structure of your life, you have to be careful that's very personal.
That's not, like, you do that for you. Don't do that for me. Let me be whoever --
BORELLI: But that's your interpretation of religion. I think a lot of people use religion, whatever faith they might have, as a foundational guide of how they act.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: I don't want to just say it and talk about it.
RIVERA: The death of the church in that.
PHILLIP: I can't. I don't know.
RIVERA: I think it was a guess. Is he going to get all his followers to vote? And will it be an act of God when they vote? It's too much, you know what I'm saying?
BORELLI: But I've seen so many politicians around the country speak on pulpits at churches all around the country, and I think it's not fundamentally a bad thing. And if you want to know who does it more often, you see more Democrats on pulpits than you see Republicans.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, PUBLISHER, "THE ROOT", FOUNDER, WATERING HOLE MEDIA, AND FORMER NATIONAL COALITIONS DIRECTOR, BIDEN-HARRIS 2020: I think there's different ways that our parties use religion, to be clear. But I think the contradictory part is that Markwayne Mullin is saying that when people use their faith to justify their actions, I feel like that's what most people who are believers actually do.
BORELLI: I say, that part's the whole part. Yes, I agree with you.
ALLISON: But that means that most people and the way they behave is wrong. Most people live their life guided by the principles of their spirituality, their faith, their religious ideology, right? And so I don't think politicians are any different.
What I take hypocritical is that it's okay when Republicans do it and use it in the evangelical church and use religion as a reason to say that abortion is wrong or all of these things. But then the moment somebody that is not a Christian wants to bring their faith into it, it is anti-American.
So my thing is, if you're going to let people to use their faith, whether they're Jewish, whether they're Hindu, whether they're Christian, whether they're atheist or ethnostic, it should just be a freedom of religion, something in the Constitution, I believe.
But instead, it's like, it's got to be Christian. It's got to look this way. It's got to be practiced this way.
Or I'm Markwayne Mullin you and tell you that you're not Christian.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: Most of the people who govern our country happen to be Christian.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: It doesn't have to be that way.
[22:40:05]
PHILLIP: In addition to the usual that you hear about James Talarico and what he said about God and gender, this week he also posted this video on his Twitter page about other policies. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES TALARICO (D), TEXAS SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: When Jesus healed the sick, he didn't ask for a deductible.
So when I fight for universal health care, I'm doing it on biblical grounds. When Jesus fed the hungry, he didn't price gouge to turn a profit. So when I say that no child in the state of Texas should go to bed hungry, I'm doing it on biblical grounds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I'll tell you that this is why he came on the map. And people forget that that's actually the reason that he started getting attention in the Democratic circles is because he was fluent in this sort of language, using religion and public policy hand in hand.
MELIK ABDUL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes. So he said enough about religion.
That's why Republicans are out there attacking some of the things that he said. But I think that Republicans, I will say this though, I don't think that, you know, attacking him for his faith or the Talarico and all of that, I don't think that actually matters at all.
I think what needs to happen in a place like Texas is that Paxton actually needs to double down and remind voters why they chose him as attorney general.
He's talking about things now. He's launching investigations into the warning uses from the data centers. That's something that's important to people in Texas.
But he can also talk about his record, the billion-dollar settlements that he got from Meta and Google. If you are a suburban mom in Collin County, that actually matters to you.
He also did work when it comes to protecting seniors from fraud and scams.
RIVERA: I hear you.
ABDUL: But let me finish. If you are a voter in, let's say, Hill Country, that actually matters to you, too.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: He's having some trouble.
ABDUL: And I think that focusing on Talarico and all of that, that's much less important.
RIVERA: He comes across so decent in that investigation. So strong and simple.
ABDUL: All Democrats to Democrats.
RIVERA: This was not over-flourished. This was very sincere.
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, AND FORMER PENTAGON DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I think Republicans and independents would identify with what he's saying.
RIVERA: I'd identify with the message. I wouldn't identify with.
SINGH: Yes, but that's what we're talking about.
BORELLI: He's taking an issue that brought Democrats underwater two years ago, and the policy of the Democratic Party was essentially, let everyone in because we believe in open borders. He's framing that same argument in a way that's actually relatable to a lot of people of faith.
So I think it is a strategy that has some penetration.
ALLISON: That wasn't what that was about. That wasn't what he was saying.
BORELLI: He was talking about immigrants and immigration.
PHILLIP: No, he was not. He was --
BORELLI: No. I thought that was about the immigration, yes.
PHILLIP: There is another --
He has had other comments about migrants and all of that, but this particular one was about more about health care. But look, I mean, you've got James Talarico talking about Democratic values in this way. Then you've got Pete Hegseth talking about going to war to fight the Islamists with God on your side.
It's a different vibe.
SINGH: It's a different vibe. And I think the way Pete Hegseth uses religion is to weaponize it as a cause for war, a cause for what Donald Trump and this administration are doing.
And I think the way Talarico weaves in religion is things that he believes are in his values, like that he believes, you know, like health care and making sure that everyone can have food on the table. It's a different type of way of talking about religion. But I think what's very dangerous about how Pete Hegseth uses it is it is weaponizing.
And I think the way like even this new ad that Trump is raising, God made Trump. I mean, what is that? Like, that's crazy.
ABDUL: Well, apparently black voters in Texas don't like Talarico.
SINGH: But that's crazy to say.
ABDUL: Well, apparently that's the case. Well, apparently if you listen to the people that are out there, that's what they're saying, that they don't like Talarico.
PHILLIP: We'll find out. I think that that's one of the, I mean, he's been, well --
ABDUL: Jason Crockett's been running on it.
ALLISON: No. That's like, that's like a, she's not on the ballot. PHILLIP: Next for us, Chris Christie gives us his take on the 2028 field, including why he says J.D. Vance is ultimately doomed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Who will succeed President Trump in 2028? A former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, has some thoughts on that and the potential candidates, which includes himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: You don't run the third time for the experience or the exercise. And so if I decide to run a third time, it's because I've seen what I think is a path that could lead to victory.
FRANK SESNO, MODERATOR, "THE SESNO SERIES": But you're seriously considering this?
CHRISTIE: Well, you will for sure. I mean, you know, you don't look serious.
SESNO: When will you make a decision?
CHRISTIE: I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But when it comes to Vice President J.D. Vance, Christie says he's not sold.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: I think he is going to reek with the stink of Donald Trump. And I think that the Republican Party will probably look at that and say, I don't want a Democrat to get elected.
[22:50:08]
And if I nominate him, the overwhelming likelihood is he will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: You know what's interesting? J.D. Vance's own sort of benefactor, Peter Thiel, kind of said something very similar in their last couple of weeks. Basically, that whoever runs that is associated with Trump is going to have to deal with an overhang from all of this negativity.
SINGH: I mean, we can look back at 2024, vice presidents always have a difficult time separating themselves from the President. And I think that is what Chris Christie, Peter Thiel are alluding to. How much can you really break with the President of your own party when you are in the number two seat and you are implementing the policies and the decisions that come out of the Oval Office?
You might not agree with them all the time, but you're not going to go out there publicly every single time that you're asked, well, did you agree with this on Iran? Did you agree with this on health care? He's going to have a very tough line to walk.
I think, I don't know, I mean, I think he runs, and you would probably know better than I do. I think J.D. Vance runs, but I don't think that means that.
PHILLIP: You are certain, he's certain.
SINGH: Yes, I mean, I think, I'm sorry, I think he does run.
PHILLIP: He really has to.
SINGH: I just think it's going to be very difficult.
PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, he's trying, well, let me just read this, because he did an interview this week with NBC, and he says, "it's really obvious to me that at this very moment, Ted Cruz is running for President. At this moment, I'm not. I'm trying to help elect Republicans. That's what I'm going to keep on doing."
I don't know.
He's running for President. He's still actively trying to consolidate Republicans around him in this moment, because he knows he has to do it now.
RIVERA: I think Marco Rubio could take a lot of steam out of Vance's engine. Marco Rubio is the first candidate.
PHILLIP: Or does he stand back and wait for the dust to settle?
RIVERA: Yes, I'll say this.
ABDUL: Now, no one cares what Chris Christie says, just at all. If he decides to run again, he's going to lose again like Cory Booker.
But on the J.D. Vance point, I think that there needs to be a real conversation about J.D. Vance, because it's not that because he's tied to Donald Trump. Democrats are going to tie anybody who was not anti- Trump to Trump. So if they decide to run, they're going to tie all of them to it.
But I wrote an article in the "Washington Examiner" about this very thing, talking about the race between J.D. Vance, if they decide to run versus Rubio. And my point is, is that when it comes to the coalition, so Donald Trump had a coalition, a large coalition.
What Republicans have to look at is someone who cannot just maintain that coalition, but build upon the coalition. RIVERA: That's right, Marco Rubio --
ABDUL: And J.D. Vance is not, let me finish though. But J.D. Vance is not the person to do that.
I've heard from independents, and Marco Rubio can bring in some of those. Republicans who, you know, kind of do not like Trump for the 2016.
Watch out for Marco Rubio.
RIVERA: This is a big deal. We have a Secretary of State who can speak Spanish the first time this ever happened.
He is the one that could be a transformational candidate. He can bring the Latinos back, because he would moderate that ugly tone that Trump has.
PHILLIP: Let me just play this real quick. This is J.D. Vance talking about Angie Nixon in Florida. This is about the tone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I have the easiest job in the world. I get to talk about how crazy the Democrats are.
When Angie Nixon calls herself a socialist, I think the right response is to say, then get the hell out of here. You don't belong in America, if those are your views.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It feels like it's Trump-like.
ALLISON: Yes, but it is Trump-like. At one point on J.D. Vance, I have heard Republicans, who I think are pretty good strategists in that party, talk about J.D. Vance actually not running. And this is why.
Because whoever is going to run, most likely in 2028, is going to lose. Because the backlash of Trump will be so strong, the Democrats most likely will default to win. And so why would J.D. Vance get mired in that? Give him those four years.
PHILLIP: Do you have a 15-second rebuttal to that?
BORELLI: The only voters that matter in the Republican primary are Republicans. And we know that there's one person who is still fundamentally popular with the base, and that's Trump.
So I know we discount, we call it the stench of Trump, but for that primary battle, his support and his legacy and his vision forward is what's going to matter.
ALLISON: Can you win a primary with 30 percent?
BORELLI: I think we have two good candidates. I think it's a good place to be.
PHILLIP: Thanks, everyone. We'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: The comedians of "Have I Got News For You" are back to help you laugh your way through the headlines this week. Here's a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROY WOOD JR., HOST, "HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU": Hegseth was very eloquent in explaining his methodology.
HEGSETH: We are no longer the woke department or the weak department. Simple translation of that, no fatties, no trannies, no beardos, no weirdos, no wimps, no radicals.
ALLISON: What is a beardo?
AMBER RUFFIN, TEAM CAPTAIN, "HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU": I've been thinking about the same thing.
ALLISON: What is it?
RUFFIN: A confusion I've come to.
ALLISON: Please.
RUFFIN: I think that sometimes white people are thinking about white hippies, right, with the long beard, and they're like, yes, but I don't know. But, you know, like Ben and Jerry.
Those would be like beardos. Is that true?
[23:00:08]
MICHAEL IAN BLACK, TEAM CAPTAIN, "HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU": It's General Ben and General Jerry. Thank you very much.
DAVE FOLEY, COMEDIAN: For that old queen, Abraham Lincoln.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: You can catch the all-new episode tomorrow at 9 p.m. on CNN and streaming the next day with an all-access subscription.
Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." Tomorrow, be sure to catch "Table for Five" at 10 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
