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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Stumps in Texas for GOP Nominee He Keeps Insulting; Michigan GOP Nominee Breaks With Trump on Tariffs, Canada. NYT Reports Trump Advisers Hired to Help Pro-Russian Government; Trump Warning of Another Impeachment if Democrats Win the Midterms. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 07, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, Donald Trump stumps in one of America's most important races, but he's becoming a lone star.
KEN PAXTON (R), TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: It's the war, gas prices. I don't know what's behind some of these things.
PHILLIP: Plus, one swing state Republican sounds like he's running against Trump.
MIKE ROGERS (R), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: Canada is not our enemy. We need to end this tariff war now.
PHILLIP: Also --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, they're allowed to do that. They have a lot of clients, and it's okay.
PHILLIP: -- president defends two of his outside advisers working for a pro-Russian government.
And --
TRUMP: I've had my shot, and still do, at Biden, at Hillary Clinton, and Barack Hussein Obama.
PHILLIP: -- the president acts like he hasn't tried going after his predecessors, but comes up with a new reason why it's not working.
TRUMP: You have to treat the office of the presidency with respect.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Tara Setmayer, Jesse Arm, Chuck Rocha, Peter Meijer, and Ana Navarro.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. President Trump is choosing Texas. Tonight, he traveled back to the Lone Star State for the third time in less than a month, and he desperately tries to shore up support for Ken Paxton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He is perhaps the greatest attorney general in the United States.
You're going to have a blowout because there's nobody like him, right?
And a vote for Ken Paxton is a vote to save Texas and defend everything that made Texas great and makes America great.
So, you need to go and vote for Ken Paxton for U.S. Senate.
Ken Paxton has won victory after victory for the people of Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Paxton has not only been struggling to escape his checkered political past, he also faces an uphill battle against his opponent, James Talarico, in a state that hasn't elected a Democrat statewide in more than 30 years.
But as Trump hits the trail to give Paxton an assist, we are hearing the Republican Senate nominee is yet -- in yet another piece of leaked audio. This time, he's appearing to blame President Trump for some of his campaign troubles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAXTON: The war, it's gas prices, it's diesel.
I have no control over gas prices. So many of the factors in this federal race are uncontrollable. I don't make the decisions, and I don't -- you know, I don't know what -- I don't know what's behind some of the decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Before we open it up to the table here, we invite you at home to join our debate. Go to cnn.com/abby, weigh in there. We'll get to some of your comments as we go throughout the show.
It seems that somebody on Ken Paxton's team does not like him very much because all of these leaked tapes --
CHUCK ROCHA, PODCAST CO-HOST, THE LATINO VOTE: Don't look at me, I didn't leak nothing --
PHILLIP: All -- not you, but all these leaked tapes really suggest that that there are people out there who think that he is maybe not fit for the race, and that some of those people might be in his own campaign. ROCHA: There's two things you can't hide when we get to the end of the campaign. Lots of smart people, not everybody sitting around this table, but a lot of smart people pontificate, that's my big word, about elections right now, and what they think is going to happen. I call bullshit and show you if you want to know what's happening, look at where somebody's spending money, and where they're spending their time, because that don't lie.
You don't get those things back in a campaign. And there's a reason why the president is there. There's a reason why Donald Trump is doing what he's doing for Ken Paxton, because he's in trouble. He may still could win. I'm not, again, paid to get out here and pontificate about who's going to win and lose. I've got a pretty good idea.
The problem is to your point about the 31 years of control, everywhere there's incumbents right now, and we're working in races all across the country, is folks are sick and tired of incumbents. They're even sick and tired of some Democrats, but in Texas, it's been all Republicans for a long time. And the difference between now and 2018, everybody's asking me about Beto O'Rourke, is Beto never led in the polls, and Talarico has led in the last 12. Plus, he's like at 67 on. Plus, you're running against Ken Paxton. Plus, gas is $6 a gallon, or diesel that is.
[22:05:00]
It's all the things are just lining up perfectly for the Democrats, and that's why the president is there.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And this is such an unforced error, right, out of nothing but Donald Trump's spite. Because if John Cornyn were running right now, Donald Trump would not have to be in Texas, and Talarico would not be leading in 12 polls.
But there's two things happening. One, the Republican candidate, Ken Paxton, is god-awful to the point where his own party impeached him. I mean, they put out what looked like a hostage video from his ex-wife where she endorsed him without even naming his name. Apparently, she can't even bring herself to pronounce his name. So, that's happening. Ken Paxton is awful. Talarico is a good candidate.
And on the other end, you've got the Hispanic issue that gave -- where they made great headway with Latinos all over the country, but particularly in places like the Rio Grande Valley, to the point where they carved out new Congressional districts when they cheated with the map, thinking that those Hispanics would vote for them. And now those Hispanics have buyer's remorse because they're seeing their abuelas and their tias and their uncles all get deported and racially profiled and dragged through the streets.
FMR. REP. PETER MEIJER (R-MI): What, cheating on the map?
NAVARRO: Yes, the -- well, it was the first -- yes, it was. To me --
MEIJER: Mid-decadal redistricting in terms of -- NAVARRO: well, we -- I mean, it's -- for as long as I can remember, redistricting has happened once every decade after the census, and this was done halfway through the game. Why? Because they wanted to give themselves an uneven advantage in the playing field. So, yes, I call that cheating.
MEIJER: Or because we had a census in 2020.
NAVARRO: And then it opened up an entire domino effect of it happening.
PHILLIP: Let's get back to Ken Paxton here for a second because, I mean, I do think that Ana and Chuck, what you're talking about is the panic mode that is very apparent here. And you also hear it in Ken Paxton talking about how he feels like he's the candidate who doesn't have control over what's going on in his own campaign. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAXTON: So many of the factors in this federal race are uncontrollable. I don't make the decisions, and I don't -- you know, I don't know what -- I don't know what's behind some of the decisions.
I've never been in a race where I felt less control over the -- like the campaign and like what issues are going to matter because it's all coming, you know, from D.C., and I don't control the message or what we're doing or -- and I can't -- I have no, I don't have the ability to change anything, so I have to live with whatever I've got.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: The there is a bit of a Cry Me a River element to this.
MEIJER: Well, yes, it's a federal race. It's a national issue.
PHILLIP: Yes, not even just that, but like he is a flawed candidate. That -- let's just put that on the table.
But what he's also referring to is the fact that in Texas, of all places, Donald Trump has a disapproval rating of 57 percent. Texas is supposed to be as red as they come. How do you get to 57 percent of people disapproving of you?
JESSE ARM, VICE PRESIDENT AND POLLSTER, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: I think this goes a level deeper, Abby, if you'll, you know, permit me just to explain a technical element of campaign politics to the viewers at home. You cannot spend as money as easily when you have to spend the money through outside groups, right? If a campaign is raising hard dollars from the campaign itself, Chuck knows about this, you get lower rates for advertising.
So, just last week in Dallas the Talarico campaign was spending a fraction of what the Paxton campaign spent and seeing comparable rates of engagement with their advertisements. The Paxton campaign, through outside groups, had to spend five times as much to only see 30 percent higher in uptick -- PHILLIP: But the multiple is more than five times. I mean, Republican groups have spent, what, $300 million in this race already?
ARM: No, that's precisely --
PHILLIP: Yes. And so that's not even in the ballpark of what Talarico's --
TARA SETMAYER, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, THE SENECA PROJECT: Right, $80 million just the last three weeks.
But I'm chuckling over here because, you know, Republicans always would say, if you're explaining, you're losing, and all of these process arguments, it's because they're losing badly.
You just asked, why is Donald Trump's disapproval at 57 percent, and it's because he has betrayed his voters. He's betrayed people in red districts. He's betrayed his people who voted and were so loyal to him, and they -- it was -- Ken Paxton was his handpicked candidate. Ana's absolutely right. If it was John Cornyn, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
But Donald Trump liked Ken Paxton because he was in his own image and likeness, a cheater, corrupt, and all those things. Oh, he liked him. He's a good guy. So, yes, okay. So, now you have someone up against someone like James Talarico --
(CROSSTALKS)
ARM: I think Ana's making a --
PHILLIP: But isn't true -- hold on, isn't true, Jesse, that Donald Trump did pick Paxton when he could have simply stayed out of it and he did it out of spite?
ARM: No, I think Ana's analysis is actually pretty sound here. The broader element here of, like, he picked him because he's a cheater, because he's equally corrupt. I think that's quite silly. But there is an actual political analysis point that's quite sound here, which is the one that says, look, Trump is coming to Texas to help Paxton because the GOP apparatus believes that's what Paxton needs right now.
[22:10:02]
SETMAYER: Is it --
ARM: Donald Trump should not be spending his time in Texas at this point in an election cycle.
I think at some level, Trump's analysis went something like this. The afternoon he had the Thomas -- Kyle Massey was on Disney Channel. I meant Thomas Massie from Kentucky. The Thomas Massie race was happening in Kentucky. Donald Trump came out and endorsed Ken Paxton for the next week's primary in Texas.
I think to some extent, the Trump campaign probably -- the Trump world factored in this is something of an insurance policy. We'll be on the same side as the base in Texas in case tonight doesn't go.
PHILLIP: Okay.
ARM: You want to take the cheap shot, that's fine. But we're trying to --
(CROSSTALKS)
SETMAYER: No. First of all, don't be dismissive --
PHILLIP: So, the point, what you're saying is that they decided that even though they think they're going to lose --
ARM: I think Donald Trump --
PHILLIP: -- they should still spend time, energy and money?
ARM: No. I think Donald Trump basically made a calculus which said something like, I'm okay with John Cornyn or Ken Paxton as the nominee.
SETMAYER: He was not -- he specifically said he wasn't okay.
PHILLIP: That's not what he did. He endorsed one of the two men.
ARM: Right, and then he got on the same side of Ken Paxton, so it was something of an insurance policy.
SETMAYER: This is why watching history -- can we just be accurate here? That's not what happened. Donald Trump specifically backed Ken Paxton because John Cornyn wasn't loyal enough to him in the beginning.
ARM: No, that's not right.
SETMAYER: So, there was no like strategy.
ARM: He definitely endorsed both of them basically before he went and interviewed with --
SETMAYER: And, okay, and, again, there's nothing -- and, again, I'd like to speak now. There's nothing silly about the fact that Ken Paxton is a corrupt politician who was impeached by Republicans in Texas, and his own wife was divorcing him for infidelity, and the fact that he's got -- he's made millions of dollars as an attorney general and, you know, an elected official --
ARM: Yes, and his own wife is going to vote for him because her policy preferences are in line with him.
SETMAYER: Well, she can seek her own therapist for wondering why she's holding his own interests.
PHILLIP: Okay. Well, since you brought up the impeachment, we actually have some sound from Ken Paxton's attorney who defended him in those impeachment proceedings. He's actually backing the other guy. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN COGDELL, KENN PAXTON'S FORMER ATTORNEY: And I'm not here to say that Paxton is a horrible human being, I just think that Talarico's much better suited to lead Texans into the areas that we want to go.
I think he's got a real shot. I don't think them spending $120 million is because they don't have anything else to do with that money. I don't think Trump coming here to hold a, a midterm in Texas was because they couldn't find another venue. The Republicans are worried, and they should be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: A correct assessment? At least from --
MEIJER: I mean, I do think Republicans are worried. But to what Ana was saying earlier, I mean, part of this is the redistricting too, right? You want to drive turnout in the state obviously for the top of the ticket in that state, which is going to be the senatorial race, but also because there's a number of swing House seats that are going to be in Texas that are going to help drive who is going to control, ultimately, the 120th Congress.
PHILLIP: Does Trump really help with that when some of those swing districts --
MEIJER: Trump absolutely helps with the turnout.
PHILLIP: -- when -- again, I'll let -- I mean, I think both of you, I want your opinions on this. Because the question is when both -- when the president is so unpopular in the state of Texas, when his deportations are so unpopular, when Hispanic voters are very much dissatisfied with what's been going on, is he really that much of a help in the places where Republicans need it the most in Texas?
MEIJER: Well, you're not going to be convincing -- you know, this is a turnout election. This is not a, you know, persuasion election. I mean, to the extent it's persuasion, it's the other guy's worse --
PHILLIP: Well, I mean, it is -- but it is and it isn't, right? Because, yes, it's a turnout election, but when you are swinging from 2024 to today maybe up to 50 points in some parts of the country with an entire bloc of voters, that's a persuasion issue.
ROCHA: There's two things that's happening at the same time. There's a group of voters that are swingable, but it's a midterm election. You're exactly right. This is not a presidential election, and there's one thing we've talked about on this program, me and Jesse have talked about this, is Donald Trump brings new people to a presidential year.
This is not a bad strategy. Whether it works or not, you're exactly right, it could backfire, but it's the only game they have to play, and they have to double down on it because he needs to get folks that love Donald Trump no matter what he does, who right now are mad about the war, or they're mad about what's going on in their neighborhoods, and they want to stay home.
I'm working in these races. I'll promise you I'm not lying to you, but he has to get them out. And is this the play to get them out? That's a calculation they need to make here.
PHILLIP: Can I -- let me ask you a quick question. Do you see evidence that maybe we're not accounting for some Trump voters who are just a little bit dissatisfied, but they're going to show up anyway, and they're just not talking to the pollsters?
ROCHA: We see in polling and focus groups in Texas that there are certain candidates where they're going to skip. If they come and show up, they're talking about skipping around on the ballot. They're probably not going to vote for Ken Paxton, but some of them are going to vote for the governor. They don't have anything against Greg Abbott.
I still think Gina Hinojosa is in that race, but there's a lot of moving around, if they can get them to show up, which is a big deal in Texas. You can't just vote by mail in Texas. You have to show up early or show up on Election Day to vote in Texas.
SETMAYER: If Donald Trump was so popular, the governor wouldn't have found a hair appointment or something else to do two times that the president of the United States came to his state.
PHILLIP: All right. Next for us, in another critical race, Mike Rogers is now distancing himself from Trump on tariffs, but doing so without mentioning the president's name.
Plus, Trump defends two of his advisers after reports that they helped a pro-Russia government, and then he floats firing them.
[22:15:04]
We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, as Donald Trump implores voters to pretend that he is on the ballot, Republicans say that he has endorsed are running away from him now. They're essentially running against him. Here is Mike Rogers, Michigan's GOP Senate nominee, in a campaign ad that blasts Trump's trade war with Canada. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGERS: Here in Michigan, we know that Canada is not our enemy. We need to end this tariff war now.
[22:20:00]
As Michigan senator, I'll bring both parties together to lower your prices. That's job number one.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Now, all of this is rich coming from Mike Rogers, given that just months ago on social media, Rogers thanked the president for his proposal to tariff Canada for air pollution related to its major wildfires. Thank you, POTUS, he wrote. Canada must be held accountable for endangering Americans, and I will work with your administration to ensure that they are.
Rogers has also repeatedly spoken out in favor of Trump's signature tariff policy, writing last October, fairness for Michigan workers is restored courtesy of President Trump's tariffs. And last November, President Trump's tariffs policies put the American people back in the driver's seat. Trump suggested this week that he'd return to Michigan to campaign there before the midterms.
Peter, are voters stupid now? Like it wasn't that long ago that he said these things.
MEIJER: Okay. First of all, as somebody who lived in Michigan and had to keep our kids indoors for seven days or three days when the wildfire smoke came during some of the most potentially beautiful parts of a short Michigan summer, I was very pissed at Canada about that.
PHILLIP: I know. We got the smoke, too, so I understand. However, back to the tariffs --
MEIJER: I will set that one aside. There's a difference between the 10 to 15 percent tariffs that, you know, the Liberation Day kind of onwards, that component, which I do think has been helpful for re- shoring or encouraging more re-domestication of our supply chains, versus the very random and very last-minute trade war with Canada that came about, I think, like, four or five weeks ago, again, just kind of out of the blue because of some negotiations behind the scenes that fell apart.
You know, Mike Rogers is looking at polling. He's looking at what is, you know, resonating or frustrating Michigan voters, and he's operating based on that. And that's where, when it comes to hating on Canada, wildfire smoke aside, Michiganders just aren't there. We work incredibly closely with Canada. They're our largest trading partner. This is an important relationship.
And so what may feel distant, you know, down in Texas is very immediate in Michigan, and that's where I think Mike Rogers is echoing the sentiments of a lot of folks in the state saying, you know, what are we doing here?
ARM: Peter's exactly right, and as the second Michigander at the table, I'll take the liberty to jump in here and point out that, look, for a lot of people, a lot of the black voters in Michigan, a lot of the Jewish voters in Michigan, loyal constituencies of the Democratic Party who have been hesitant to get behind Abdul El-Sayed because he is an extreme radical candidate, have been hesitant because Abdul El- Sayed is a very different kind of Democrat.
He's on Fox News in the last few days refusing to note that the Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization in Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon, and saying that even though the U.S. recognized them as such, he's not willing to go that far. In the same time period, Mike Rogers is down in Detroit in a black church talking about continuing John Conyers' legacy to fight against food deserts.
So, yes, Mike Rogers is coming and taking some distance between himself and the president on the question of this latest go-around of tariffs with Canada. It doesn't mean he was against the original round of tariffs that were focused on bringing back manufacturing to the state. That's important to Michigan voters.
But above all else, because Abdul El-Sayed is a very different kind of Democrat, Mike Rogers is signaling to Michiganders that he is a different kind of Republican.
PHILLIP: Well, I just want to be clear that this is not the first time that we've heard this type of thing from Mike Rogers. He has also just pointed out, generally speaking, that prices have gone up under this president. That's not just a Canada thing. Prices are going up across the board because of tariffs, because of the war in Iran. Both of those things are causing problems. And that's not a Canada-specific thing. That's an America thing.
SETMAYER: And Mike Rogers even put an ad out with his wife in a supermarket shopping to make that point.
But here's the problem with this. You know, I knew Mike Rogers when he was here at CNN. We were colleagues. I remember Mike Rogers when he was in Congress, when I was a staffer. He used to be --
ARM: When you were a Republican.
SETMAYER: That's right, when I was a sane Republican, unlike this, you know, disgrace of the Republican Party that it is now. They're a bunch of hypocrites.
ARM: But you liked Mike Rogers then --
SETMAYER: And they're cowards.
ARM: -- and you don't now?
SETMAYER: Because Mike Rogers, either he was lying then or he's lying now.
These types of the Republicans are what's wrong with the party.
ARM: Wait. He's lying?
SETMAYER: Let me finish my point. You just talked for like two minutes. I'm going to finish my point now.
PHILLIP: Hold on, Jesse. Let her finish.
SETMAYER: This is the type this is what's wrong with these types of Republicans, because they're hypocrites. They say what they need to say depending on which way the polls go, and they don't believe in anything. And that's how we got, and that's how we -- there aren't any. That's how we got Donald Trump.
PHILLIP: Okay. Can we let her finish?
SETMAYER: So, Mike Rogers now has a credibility problem. This is why people are so frustrated with both parties, because they look and they say, well, you know, you can't believe what -- they say one thing this time, now they say something else because the polls are tightening.
[22:25:04]
So, what do you actually believe?
And I think that's a credibility problem for Mike Rogers now because he never believed most of that stuff when he was kissing up to Donald Trump. He was doing that to be complicit and craven because it was politically expedient, so he thought. But now that Donald Trump is cratering, oh, all of a sudden now the reasonable Mike Rogers is coming back and taking a position to try to make up for it in the last couple weeks of this election. And I don't think that we --
(CROSSTALKS)
ARM: Until relatively recently, you were a Republican political consultant.
SETMAYER: Not relatively recently. No, that's not true.
ARM: Okay. When Donald Trump came onto the scene?
SETMAYER: Six years ago, I quit the Republican Party. And I was a never Trumper from 2015 when, you know, you were nowhere on the scene.
ARM: Yes, I was a kid. But now you say there are no good Republicans. This Republican sitting across the table from you voted to impeach Donald Trump. But he's not elected, and he lost his job --
PHILLIP: Peter does not want to bring progress to this conversation.
SETMAYER: And he's not elected.
ARM: So, there are no good Republicans?
SETMAYER: We're talking about elected Republicans.
ARM: Maybe you're the one that changed.
SETMAYER: You think so?
ARM: You just swapped your jersey for a financial incentive, Tara.
SETMAYER: You think so? You think that I'm the one that's the problem? You're the one that's defending a party that kissed up to Donald Trump after January 6th.
ARM: I'll tell you which Republicans are good and which Republicans are bad.
SETMAYER: I stand proudly in my position, leaving the party --
ARM: I'll tell you which Democrats are good and which Democrats are bad.
SETMAYER: I stand proudly --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Jesse, hold on a second. Hold on. Yes. Jesse and -- hold on one second. Jesse and Tara, just a second. First of all, it's not personal, right? We're not going after Tara because she has a right to change her party affiliation if she wants to.
SETMAYER: On principle.
PHILLIP: But I also think like on the actual subject of what we're talking about here, it used to be back when Tara was a Republican that tariffs were not a Republican position. It used to be, back when Donald Trump was running for president in 2016, and then again in 2020, that he argued against a war, like the war in Iran.
So, part of the issue for Trump is that he's having a hard time selling these policy shifts to his own base.
NAVARRO: Well, truth be told, on the tariffs issue, Donald Trump has always been pro-tariffs, and he's been talking about this as long as he's had a national platform. I just don't think that people who voted for him thought that it would be these blanket tariffs. I think they thought that it would be with a scalpel, not the way that it's been done. And, certainly, I don't think they thought there would be this antagonistic relationship with our closest neighbor, Canada.
And that's why you're seeing people like Susan Collins in Maine, neighbor of Canada, Mike Rogers in Michigan, neighbor of Canada, distancing themselves away from the tariffs and from Donald Trump. That's why you're seeing in District 27 in Florida, Maria Elvira Salazar, the congresswoman who voted to fund the big, beautiful bill that gave $75 billion to ICE, distancing herself from Donald Trump on immigration issues, because there are things that are albatrosses around the necks of these candidates depending on what their priorities is.
PHILLIP: Can I ask you this question from a viewer, Ana, just in line with what you're saying? It says, is there a chance Republicans abandon Trump en masse if the midterms are a big enough blue wave?
NAVARRO: I don't know. Let me tell you, I've kept thinking that they would abandon him after they heard the Access Hollywood tapes. They didn't. I thought they would abandon him after he was impeached. They didn't. I thought they would abandon him after January 6th. They didn't. So, I have a hard time thinking that this might be the time.
But I do think that that they might abandon his candidates and the people that do not hold him accountable. ROCHA: Voters in Michigan are different than they are in lots of places, much like Pennsylvania and places where there's been this big industrial heartland for a long time. A lot of these autoworkers voted for Donald Trump and the theory that he was going to bring manufacturing back this romance. Take it from the former steelworker political director who used to fight for tariffs on steel and autos.
People remember that there. That's why this cuts both ways in these places, because folks there, mainly these retirees who vote like it's their job, these autoworkers, and part plants, and steel manufacturing, they want to hear this. That's why Mike Rogers is doing what he's doing, because it's good politics right now for him to do that, and they're behind the eight ball, and it's an off-year election and all the things, but that's why he's doing what he's doing.
PHILLIP: And I just want to note, I mean, the targeted tariffs on steel and other specific industries, that has become a much more bipartisan thing.
ROCHA: Sure, yes.
PHILLIP: But going all the way back to Liberation Day, contra what both of you were saying, Trump's tariffs were indiscriminate and exorbitant on the entire world. It wasn't targeted. And that's -- people are shopping on Amazon, okay, in a global marketplace. They're not just paying Michigan prices. They're paying global prices that are being set all over the world, and every American felt what it felt like to have that uncertainty injected into the economy, which is why we are sitting here talking about Texas and Michigan.
Next for us, two of the president's top political advisers in the hot seat tonight after a report highlights consulting work that they did for a pro-Russian government.
[22:30:08]
We'll debate that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, President Trump distances himself from two of his top advisers after a "New York Times" article revealed that they traveled to the Balkans last week for paid work on behalf of pro- Russian government.
[22:35:05]
These two are James Blair, one of Trump's former deputy chiefs of staff, and Chris LaCavita, Trump's 2024 co-campaign manager. According to the Times, they were paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by a small Russia-aligned territory in Bosnia and Herzegovina to counsel its government on voting issues. They said that the work was for the government and not the nationalist party that controls it, but they are essentially one in the same.
Trump responded in a post online calling them outside consultants and if there is a conflict he would terminate them immediately. He elaborated today at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They don't have a conflict because they are independent people, they don't work for me, I don't know who their clients are. If I thought they had a conflict with here, I would terminate. But all they are is consultants.
REPORTER: Do you think that your advisers, James Blair and Chris LaCivita, should have been in the Balkans less than 30 days before the midterms?
TRUMP: Well, they're allowed to do that. They have a lot of clients and it's okay. I'm a client over there.
They have a consulting firm, I guess separately, as all people in Washington do. That's pretty common.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: They don't work for him, but they work for him. And it's actually interesting because it seems like the people, some of the people, and I'll play it in a minute, some of the people most upset about this are Republicans who are fighting for their lives right now in some of these races.
TARA SETMAYER, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, THE SENECA PROJECT, AND SUBSTACK AUTHOR, "UNCOMPROMISED WITH TARA SETMAYER": Yes, they don't like the fact that the ugly underbelly of being a hired political gun is becoming front and center right now and the exorbitant amount of money that these consultants make.
Listen, Chris LaCivita is the godfather of dark arts. I remember when he was working on campaigns back in Virginia with George Allen and those guys back when I was a college student in the 90s. Chris LaCivita has built a reputation of being a tough, he knows what he's doing, and he is going to go where they're going to pay him.
Now, this is indicative also of the fact that he's supposed to be running MAGA Inc. These two run MAGA Inc., which has, what, $400 million cash on hand. They've spent some of it a little bit now.
But Trump is mad because he's like, why are you guys doing this instead of focusing on me? He doesn't care that it looks unseemly. He doesn't care that they're working for a party that's this government official and all the pro-Russia.
He doesn't care that they lifted the sanctions on this guy, the sanctions that date back to the Dayton Accords because he violated them. That's when Yugoslavia broke up and they had the whole thing in the 90s and all that. This guy was under sanctions for all these administrations, but the Trump administration lifted the sanctions, his guys are over there working for them, and they're pro-Russia.
Chris LaCivita is also the same guy who was responsible for the Swift voting, remember that, with John Kerry? That was Chris LaCivita. He was the architect of that. So they have no problem calling out the patriotism of Democrats, but they can go over and work for pro-Russia governments, and there's no problem with that.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, AND HOST OF IHEART'S "BLEEP WITH ANA NAVARRO": Listen, there is no way that Donald Trump is firing these two.
SETMAYER: No.
NAVARRO: There's just not.
PHILLIP: But not at this stage.
NAVARRO: No, certainly not at this stage. If he started firing and getting rid of all the people that had profiteered off this presidency, he'd have to start with his own two sons, and son-in-law. So that's just not going to happen.
I do think that if we're going to be transparent and fair, this happens with Democrats and this happens with Republicans. Usually not while the President is still in office and I do think that, I keep saying this because we keep seeing folks who are in elected office or adjacent to folks in elected office going to jail for profiteering off of the principal's connections in office.
These laws need to be tight, and there need to be ethical questions on whether it is correct for somebody that is this close to the President of the United States to be exploiting that proximity by going and making money. But I think it's a question that I want made for everybody.
PHILLIP: You took the words right out of Steve Bannon's mouth.
NAVARRO: Oh God, oh my.
PHILLIP: California Governor Gavin Newsom just said, quote, "the Democrats need to focus on ending Trump's presidency in 28 days while these two grifters are out of the country - and we wonder why the MAGA base may have an enthusiasm gap. We need a forensic audit of where the money went so that the President has the information to hold people accountable."
I'm not sure the President's going to hold anybody accountable here, but it is a bad look when one of the campaign arguments against this administration, one of the arguments for a check on this President, is that there is rampant and widespread corruption happening, and he's enabling it, doing nothing about it at the very least.
PETER MEIJER (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, MICHIGAN, AND FOUNDING PARTNER AND HEAD OF STRATEGY, THE NEW INDUSTRIAL CORPORATION: In the case of Chris LaCivita and James Blair, neither are government employees.
[22:40:02] They are campaign officials, and they had an outside consulting gig, and that's where they went to. I'm still waiting for somebody to pronounce the name of the republic that they went to, because there is one vowel in it, and I know that it's part of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina that isn't Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Republika Srpska?
PHILLIP: I think it's Srpska.
MEIJER: Srpska. Okay, thank you. So you can debate the merits of that.
I was also trying to figure out, apparently they were neutral on sanctions, and so that's why they're considered pro-Russia.
Why is it called a pro-Russian party that is in charge of the government that they were consulting?
PHILLIP: I don't know that's an accurate read on it. I'm not an expert on this, but let me play with what Thom Tillis, who's in Congress, said about this situation. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I'm the Republican lead for the Senate NATO observer group. I've spent time in BIH and over in Kosovo and Serbia. The Republic of Srpska is a destabilizing force in the area, very much Putin-aligned, and the last thing anybody who's interested in protecting the President should be consulting on the side.
These guys are not hurting for money. They don't need to be doing that, they shouldn't be doing it, and if the reports are true, they should get out of that relationship very quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK ROCHA, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, SOLIDARITY STRATEGIES, AND PODCAST CO-HOST, "THE LATINO VOTE": I'm very uncomfortable with the way all of you, all of you are piling on the political consultants right now, so first of all, I need to back up a little bit.
PHILLIP: Don't take the first bullet, Chuck.
ROCHA: Multiple counterfeiters. The second thing is, nobody here will be surprised that I can't find this place on a map.
Third, you know who's really mad? Folks that are running in regular congressional districts right now that are having to talk about this, because right now they're the ones who want to refocus back on cost and corruption or cost and gas or whatever.
All the things I'm running ads on right now, Republicans in Congress. Not crazy MAGA, not left-wing crazies, but regular conservatives that I used to debate with all the time are just pissed they're running in congressional seats and having to answer to this to a reporter right now. SETMAYER: Because it's about cost, chaos, and corruption, and this is,
it reeks of corruption. The deeper part of this here is that they called this guy that they were working for the Trump of this region.
So they're, and Rob Grigoryevich, remember him? His consulting firm, Rob Grigoryevich, was pardoned by Trump for corruption when we tried to sell a Senate seat. He was pardoned.
Now he has firmly $1.3 million consulting for these same folks over there. The grift stinks to high heavens, and that's why Trump --
NAVARRO: And I honestly -- I don't think anybody running for Congress is going to, I really don't, is going to get asked about these two consultants consulting for a country that nobody can pronounce. But I do think that Republicans in Congress, people like Thom Tillis and other Republicans who are still conservative when it comes to foreign policy, have to be pretty pissed off at the idea that two of Trump's closest consultants are consulting and helping people who, in theory, we are ideological enemies of.
PHILLIP: Yes, well look, I think it's that, and it's also just literally some of these campaign operatives are asking, where's the help that we need?
One of them told Politico, "we're out here fighting for our lives and these dudes are in some random ass country made up of too many consonants and no one has ever heard of, taking hundreds of thousands of dollars while telling us to chill out because they've got it. It's legitimately shocking."
Another says, "if this doesn't show how checked out Republicans are, I'm not sure what does, doesn't look like what you do when you're about to win a ton of races in the U.S."
JESSE ARM, VICE PRESIDENT AND POLLSTER, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: Yes, I think the report card for La Civita and Blair, we're only about a few weeks away from it on election day here in the United States, their biggest and most important client is Donald Trump. And look, I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce the name of this country, but if SRPSKA or whatever it's called has to get dropped as a client, we've got two clever political consultants right here at the table who might be available to take on some of this.
NAVARRO: I don't work for our enemies of the United States.
ARM: Too busy with this Project Lincoln or whatever.
PHILLIP: All right, next for us. The President says that he could do very bad things to Biden and Obama when he was asked about the chances of another impeachment if Democrats win the midterms. We'll discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: President Trump has repeatedly warned his supporters that if Democrats retake control of Congress, they're going to impeach him. When he was asked about his comments, he went on the tangent about his predecessors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I could have done very bad things to Hillary Clinton, I could have done very bad things to Joe Biden, I could have done very bad things to Barack Hussein Obama. I thought it was inappropriate to do so because you have to treat the office of the presidency with respect.
I view the presidency as a very sacred position, very important, very sacred. A position where it has to be treated properly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Hearing that, I think the first question that I have is, if he had so much on Biden and Obama and Hillary Clinton, where is it?
ARM: Well, look, I think he's reacting to the fact that he was the subject of a massive lawfare campaign.
[22:50:04]
Right, I think there was something like, and even extending beyond the lawfare campaign, 50-something attempts across 35 states to try and keep him off of the Presidential ballot so that he would never even be able to face the voters.
PHILLIP: What I'm asking about is, he says he could have done bad things to Biden, Obama, Hillary. What are the things that he would have done them for?
ARM: I don't know, hammer them with a lawfare campaign, direct his attorney generals to go find some kind of lawsuit. Famous quotes of, show me the man, I'll show you the crime.
PHILLIP: But he has asked them to do that.
No, he's not. He's not. He's saying he could have and he wouldn't.
He wouldn't because it's beneath the office of the presidency.
Go ahead, laugh it off. He's not doing it. He's saying I could have done this and I'm not going to.
PHILLIP: He actually did hire a person, Joe DiGenova, to look into this quote-unquote "lawfare" against him. That person resigned without doing anything. So again, I ask, where is the stuff that he is so mad about? Where's the proof of the wrongdoing and the lawfare?
I mean, we're sitting here, we're like 15, 16 months in, and I just haven't seen a single thing, and I'm just wondering, where is it? NAVARRO: Well, there is no, there isn't.
Donald Trump has consistently shown that he is willing and desirous of weaponizing his Department of Justice against his opponents and his enemies. You can ask James Comey. One of the reasons that Pam Bondi got let go so unceremoniously was because of the whole James Bondi, James Comey affair, and remember that it was Todd Blanche who reopened that bogus investigation on James Comey.
So if he could do it, if he could find a way of indicting them, if he could find a way of getting them to pay some sort of consequence, he would. Now let's remember Hillary Clinton testified for what, 11 hours in front of Congress? If there had been something there, she would have been referred.
Let's remember Hunter Biden testified seven hours. I just hope that if Democrats retake Congress, they'll remember that, and they'll bring Trump Jr. to testify about all these billions of dollars in contracts that he's getting from us.
PHILLIP: Jack Smith was just on Capitol Hill a week ago. Nothing.
NAVARRO: Right.
PHILLIP: We're just empty-handed here.
ROCHA: You know, we talk about Trump giving lots of access to folks, and he does, and he gives reporters a lot of time to ask him lots of questions, and every day he answers them, and you can tell when things kind of bother him.
This really bothers him, and I think he knows he can see what's coming with accountability. I do not think the Democrats, and I could be wrong, but I don't think the Democrats are going to try to impeach him, but he knows that that bothers him, and he knows, because what Jay said, it chaps his ass that he has went through this twice already, and to think about doing it again, you can tell by, and I've managed politicians all the time.
ARM: A member of Congress just brought articles of impeachment to the House floor against him this week.
NAVARRO: Yes, I know, I know, but listen, and a Republican member of Congress brought articles of impeachment against Pete Hegseth, and frankly, neither party leadership wants those articles of impeachment presented.
PHILLIP: But I do think that there's probably a better chance that the scrutiny is going to fall on Trump's family and cabinet than on Trump himself at this point.
MEIJER: And I think that's where Democrats retake the House. The focus is going to be on their oversight hearings. It's going to be on potentially charging folks with contempt who are not participating with that. Now, obviously, those traditionally go to a DOJ referral, and the
Trump administration isn't going to act on that, but in 2027 is the 100th anniversary of the last time that the sergeant-at-arms of the U.S. Capitol exercised their inherent contempt, which has been upheld by the Supreme Court, and went and arrested somebody in Ohio in the Teapot Dome scandal.
So we may just see some interesting reprisals of articles of branch.
PHILLIP: Standby for that, we'll see what happens. Next for us. We're going to react to your feedback from cnn.com/abby.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: We'll be right back. And now some viewer feedback from cnn.com/abby.
Our first viewer says, if the tariffs had worked as promised, no one would have to run away from them. The point is, they didn't work.
SETMAYER: Right, because they're a tax. Tariffs are a tax on the consumer, and people are recognizing that when their cost of living is more important.
MEIJER: The manufacturing construction's up.
PHILLIP: Yes, isn't it self-evident that if people felt like they were getting benefit from it, they wouldn't have to campaign against it?
MEIJER: I mean, I understand the kind who want things to happen immediately. The reality with both policy changes and investment horizons is that those are done in multiple years, if not over the course of a decade.
NAVARRO: I'm still waiting for my tariff refund check. No, that's the $5,000.
The tariff refund check he promised before. There's about two or three different checks that he's promised and not denied.
ARM: Not all tariffs are made equal. I like Joe Biden's China tariffs. He kept those around from Donald Trump, so they're the same thing.
[23:00:02]
PHILLIP: And this one's for you, Chuck.
Can we introduce decorum back into our conversations and avoid profanity? It's become acceptable, and it is truly not necessary. Let's all do better.
ROCHA: There may or may not be a "New York Times" article written about how many times I've cussed, but I will just say that we try not to get folks to cuss on the campaign trail. When you're running for office, there should be some decorum, because I always think when I'm trying to teach a candidate how to do this, it's like they're talking to their grandmama. Whatever you would say to your grandmama, you should be able to do that.
PHILLIP: It's actually the rule for the show.
(CROSSTALK)
Thank you very much for joining us. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
