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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Says, Blame Rove, Cornyn if Paxton Loses Senate Race; El- Sayed Says, Need to Help Trump Voters, They're Paying $5 Gas Too; Reuters Reports, Order to Limit Tech for Ukraine Came from Inside White House. Ukraine Exhausts Patriot Missiles As Tensions Spike with Trump; Zelenskyy Admits He Feels Betrayed by Trump Amid Controversial U.S.- Russia Diesel Deal. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 15, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, all eyes on Michigan as the president attacks --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He's a Muslim Brotherhood guy.
PHILLIP: -- a candidate gets a visitor --
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): The Trump administration is doing specifically is attacking women's ability to get an education.
PHILLIP: -- and gives his take on Trump voters.
ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: We've got to help those folks. They're paying for $5 guys, too.
PHILLIP: Plus, the donor list for Donald Trump's ballroom is revealed, and despite promises, he's not on it.
TRUMP: And I'm paying for it.
Also, is the U.S. on the verge of abandoning Ukraine? The urgent new developments may be a turning point in the war.
And --
KAMALA HARRIS, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: We need to expand the Supreme Court.
PHILLIP: -- Kamala Harris gives a controversial take about the fate of the Supremes.
Live at the table, Charles Blow, May Mailman, Ashley Allison, Horace Cooper, and Geraldo Rivera.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Tonight, if the Republican outlook for the midterms wasn't grim enough, President Trump is preemptively assigning the blame for a potential loss in at least one Senate race. In a post, he calls out Senator John Cornyn and his little buddy, Super RINO Karl Rove. He says that their opposition to the Republican Senate candidate, Ken Paxton, is hurting Texas and the U.S. overall. And if Paxton ultimately loses, it would be because of, quote, weak and ineffective political hacks like Cornyn and Rove.
And in the other critical race, about 1,100 miles north of Texas, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez joined Michigan Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed on the campaign trail as the vice president and the president attack the Democrat. The race there is razor-thin, and in a state that Trump won by just 80,000 votes in 2024, Trump's approval rating is now at an all-time low.
Flipping people who voted for Trump is key to El-Sayed's victory. He has an interesting message, though, to his supporters about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EL-SAYED: And his neat trick is to become the subject of every conversation and to force people to take sides. Now, here's the thing about it. Once you take sides, he's forcing you to double down on crazier and crazier stuff. And soon enough, you're out here signing on to a bunch of things that like three years ago, you're like, that's insane. And you know it's insane, but here's the problem. You don't want to have to face down that one friend who's going to tell you, I told you so.
And so what happens is that you keep doubling down on the craziest stuff, and you find yourself so far gone up that tree that there's no way you can climb down. We've got to help those folks, because guess what? They're paying for $5 gas, too.
We've got to be the folks who can rebuild that bound of humanity, re- invite them back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, before we open it up to the table here, we invite you at home to join the debate. Go to cnn.com/abby. You can weigh in there. We'll get to some of your comments as we go throughout the show tonight.
Ashley, it seems like a lot of the argument that is being made on the right against El-Sayed are basically he's not American enough. El- Sayed is trying to do the pivot from the primary to the midterms and trying to strike more of a conciliatory tone toward Republican-leaning voters. What does that tell you about where this race is?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, the race is close. Interestingly enough, I sat down with him on Monday for my outlet, The Root, and I talked to him about that exact thing, about where -- how are you going to build the coalition that Kamala Harris could not build in 2024? And the thing he said to me was that, the thing I've said in the primary is the thing I'm saying today, and I am being consistent. And I think I will be able to win voters is because I'm not changing because of my donors. I'm not changing because it's a general election. I am who I am.
I do think that the Republican Party has tried to paint him and use racist attacks, quite honestly, anti-Islamophobic -- like Islamophobic postures towards him.
Now, you don't have to agree with his position. That's democracy to debate.
[22:05:00]
But there is this tone, this anti-Islamic tone towards his candidacy, and he literally said out his mouth, it breaks my heart because I love this country so much, because I know if I wasn't born in this country, the opportunities that I wouldn't have that I have now that I don't, wouldn't have in other countries.
And so he is going out and telling that message, but also telling people he is fighting with them, not against them. He is for them, and he will deliver that for him if he's elected.
PHILLIP: Let me play what -- to your point about the-- how he's dealing with the attacks on his -- essentially his loyalty to America. Here's what he said after J.D. Vance essentially questioned his commitment to this country. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EL-SAYED: He wanted to raise questions about my commitment to America. And let me tell you, nobody understands how deep and profound the gift of this country is like a kid who was born here but for the accident of history that allowed that to happen.
They've been saying all kinds of things, trying to point to my name and my faith, telling me, oh, you can't win an election. His name's Abdul. He's a Muslim. Yes, I'm a Muslim. But I also understand that my allegiance is to a Constitution, is a document they don't understand very well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, May, I mean, why is it that Republicans are focusing so much on how American he is?
MAY MAILMAN, LEGAL DIRECTOR, INDEPENDENT WOMEN: Well, I disagree that is the focus. I think affordability is the focus. They're talking about how Michigan has the highest gas prices. I would say that his endorsement of all sorts of giveaway policies, the Council of Economic Advisers said that these DSA policies, including Medicare for all, which he has endorsed, is going to raise the national debt by $45 trillion, and that's going to cost people in GDP, which is going to cost people in their hourly wages.
So, yes, affordability is definitely the number one target. But also I think it's an authenticity issue. So, when he goes on T.V. and says, I have no connection to the Muslim Brotherhood, and my family doesn't, and then when his sister says that they do, and he's confronted with that, instead of explaining it, he says, how dare you ask me about that? That authenticity problem, I think, is an issue for Michigan voters.
CHARLES BLOW, THE LANGSTON HUGHES FELLOW, HARVARD UNNIVERSITY: There's two problems there. So, both of us have talked to El-Sayed in the last two weeks. I went out to Michigan and interviewed him, went to a couple of his rallies. If you watch television in Michigan, as I did, watched all the commercials, listened to all the commercials, it really is -- it's Islamophobic. Nobody's bringing up the affordability issue.
HORACE COOPER, CHAIRMAN, PROJECT 21: But because it is then.
BLOW: But I'm just going to finish this. What you just said about the -- their focus on affordability, that's not what they're focused on.
ALLISON: They're not.
BLOW: And when you watch Rogers' interviews, the last couple of days, which I've watched, they're not -- he's not talking about affordability. He's talking about issues about his identity.
And one of the really interesting things about the El-Sayed campaign, I wrote about this for The Guardian, I was pressing him that he should be more engaged in identity politics. There is not a single mention on his entire website of -- in his priority section, of black people, African Americans, these words, Latin, Hispanic. He doesn't deal with his own -- when they played that clip and he said Muslim, he didn't say it all day. I went to two rallies. He didn't say the words. He would say, people are concerned, worried about who I pray to, rather than what I pray for. He was kind of doing illusory references to it. He's avoiding this, and it is Republicans that are hammering the idea about his identity as a problem for him and for Michiganders.
The second thing that you said was that there's this issue around whether or not a parent, an Australian parent, by the way, because he, she was divorced from his father when he was three years old, and she moved away, she got remarried, moved back to the Middle East. But a parent's involvement with any kind of connection to a terrorist group is a problem. Is that what you're saying?
MAILMAN: I do think if your parent is a terrorist, that is a problem.
BLOW: Well, that's not what he's saying, but -- so are you also now about to disown Donald Trump and condemn him?
MAILMAN: Is his parent a terrorist?
BLOW: Yes, well -- oh, you laughed. So, in June 1st --
COOPER: That's a fair question.
BLOW: Okay, let me answer it then.. Since you're laughing, it's funny to you. On June 1st, 1927 in Queens, there was a giant Klan rally. 1,000 Klansmen got into a scuffle with 100 police officers. And when the dust settled, seven -- only seven people were arrested. One of those people was Fred Trump. That's interesting that that is the same name as the president's father, right?
COOPER: Okay.
BLOW: No, you're not going to stop me now because you were laughing before.
[22:10:00]
COOPER: It's like complaining about the weather though.
BLOW: No, I'm sorry.
COOPER: I can laugh some more.
BLOW: Well, then, keep laughing because I'm going to keep going. And then when his bail was posted, they gave -- it was a report in a newspaper where his address was. Interestingly, it was the same address as the president's father.
So, either there were two 21-year-olds at a Klan rally in Queens on June 1st, 1927, or they are the same person. And there were two people involved -- two groups involved, Klan members and their supporters and police officers, and Fred Trump was not a police officer. So, the basic math is two minus one equals this one left.
GERALDO RIVERA, PEABODY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST: But what does that have to do with El-Sayed?
COOPER: You don't work for The New York Times anymore. I know that. You may not be here --
BLOW: Why are you -- Where are you going?
COOPER: Let's just be clear. When I see this in print, I can verify and validate what's going on.
PHILLIP: Horace, that story has been reported many times.
RIVERA: Many, many times, many, millions of times.
PHILLIP: But it's not breaking news. But I also want to just make one point about the familial issue. As Charles just pointed out, Abdul El- Sayed was not raised by his biological mother. His parents divorced when he was three. He doesn't have that kind of relationship with her. So, the idea that he would be --
COOPER: That's not what May said, though.
PHILLIP: But the idea that he would that he would be tarred and feathered for a Muslim Brotherhood connection --
COOPER: That's not what May said. What May said was --
PHILLIP: -- that, frankly, A, is not verified, and, B, does not actually say anything about how he was raised. He was raised in Michigan is the issue that he is --
COOPER: That he has been asked this question and his answers are incoherent.
PHILLIP: Well, no. That's a problem.
(CROSSTALKS)
BLOW: It's a problem. The connection was the problem.
COOPER: Based on your --
PHILLIP: Horace --
BLOW: To answer the question, right, based on the answer to the question. Is that a problem for you now?
PHILLIP: And he said to his knowledge, he is not aware of any connections with the Muslim Brotherhood. And you know what? You can take that up with him, but the insinuation is that he is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
BLOW: Exactly.
ALLISON: Because he is Muslim.
PHILLIP: Because here's -- okay, here's Donald Trump --
ALLISON: And that is Islamophobia.
PHILLIP: And here's here's Donald Trump and just pay attention not just to what Trump is saying, but how to Abdul El-Sayed is responding to it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: His name is Abdul, but I think -- I call him Mohammed Abdul El-Sayed, and he's a Muslim Brotherhood guy, 100 percent.
EL-SAYED: He's saying -- calling me Mohammed, which is my middle name. (INAUDIBLE). And the funny thing is Abdul just means servant. Mohammed means the praised one. So, he didn't realize he took me from servant to praised one. Cool.
But however he decides to say it, I want to make sure he has to say it with the word senator in front of it in November.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: And this is why I disagree with Charles Blow and his idea that we ought to embrace identity politics. We don't need to focus on anyone's background. He's -- good for him that he doesn't put black or Latino --
BLOW: Are you a schizophrenic?
COOPER: --or any of these things. What we ought to focus on --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: It sounds, Charles, like he's critiquing -- are you critiquing Donald Trump here?
BLOW: Well, yes.
COOPER: I am critiquing --
PHILLIP: Is that what you're saying?
COOPER: -- Mr. Blow and --
BLOW: Put your hands down. Put your hands down. Put your hands down. Put your hands down.
PHILLIP: Because the person who's using identity politics in this scenario.
BLOW: You're all in my face. Don't do that.
HORACE: I'm not in your face.
BLOW: Don't do that.
HORACE: I'm not in your face.
RIVERA: Easy, guys, easy.
PHILLIP: Horace, the person who's using identity politics in this scenario is the president.
COOPER: He stood right here on this show and said we need to have more.
PHILLIP: Hold on. Let me ask --
ALLISON: No, he said he asked --
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Hold on. Horace, are you saying that Donald Trump is wrong to be using his identity --
COOPER: I said two people can be wrong, Abby. Two people can be wrong.
PHILLIP: Okay. I just want to hear you say the words. Are you going to say it? COOPER: And I want to say I don't agree that the president should engage in identity politics. And the problem as I see it is this is a progressive policy of using identity politics. When the president does it, all of a sudden he gets called out. When the left does it all the time, there is silence.
ALLISON: I don't have a problem with identity politics, quite honestly. It makes me great.
RIVERA: But isn't the issue that here this is now the front page that his half-sister was this or that and he, and the Mohammed and all the rest of it? I'm a pragmatic idealist. That's the reality that people are thinking in the back of their minds that this is a radical Muslim person, and it's scaring the hell out of Jewish people and others in Michigan. Why not embrace the mainstream of the Democratic Party and surround yourself with all of these American -- indisputably white people that just, you know, why --
ALLISON: Because you don't need to be.
BLOW: Oh, my God.
(CROSSTALKS)
ALLISON: That is identity politics.
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Honestly, I want to understand what you're saying, Geraldo. Finish what you're saying.
RIVERA: AOC is my favorite politician in America. I'm very proud of her. I'm proud of everything that she's accomplished.
PHILLIP: Okay.
RIVERA: I would -- and do you think that the people in Northern Michigan are going to look at AOC and say, well, now I'm more likely to take the chance with El-Sayed than I would before?
PHILLIP: So, you're suggesting that he should campaign more with white people than with AOC?
RIVERA: If you want to be as blunt as that, it's white people, black people, American people --
PHILLIP: I'm just starting --
ALLISON: AOC is American.
(CROSSTALKS)
RIVERA: I'm a Puerto Rican American.
ALLISON: I think --
(CROSSTALKS)
BLOW: I don't care if you're Puerto Rican American. It's so offensive. It is so offensive. It is so offensive.
PHILLIP: Okay. All right, one at a time.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: One at a time. Go ahead, Charles, and then --
BLOW: I went to a rally of his in Michigan. You can't tell race of anybody.
COOPER: But I understand.
PHILLIP: Horace, please. Go ahead, Charles.
BLOW: Now, so I counted the -- trying to see how many people what percentage I thought were white and how many I thought were other races. You can't always tell.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on, guys.
RIVERA: I wasn't interrupting.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Let's just do this one at a time.
BLOW: And I went back to his campaign. So, I said, I know that I can tell roughly how many were black. I'm going to say one in ten. The vast majority of the people in that rally, in a city where 60 percent of the population is black, the vast majority of people in that rally were white. That man did not engage in any identity politics and he was surrounded by white people. And that still is not enough for you.
RIVERA: Why didn't he?
BLOW: That's still not enough for you. That is still not enough for you.
RIVERA: Why didn't he surround himself with black leaders?
BLOW: It is so offensive. It is so offensive.
PHILLIP: Let me let Ashley have --
RIVERA: Black leaders, and you want to close the gap --
BLOW: This is what happens when you come on T.V. and talk and you haven't been there.
PHILLIP: Hold on, Geraldo.
BLOW: He did have Black leaders.
PHILLIP: Hold on, Geraldo.
BLOW: He did have black leaders introduce him.
PHILLIP: Ashley, go ahead.
ALLISON: Here's the thing. I don't have a problem with identity politics, because I actually think it's diversity that makes this country great. I think it would be great for us to have our first Muslim senator. I think there are people who are terrified of that, not because of their policies, but because they have biases towards Muslim people. And the only way we can get ahead and get away from that is to have frank and honest conversations.
When I did sit down with El-Sayed, it was about the black vote, because right now in the primary, a lot of the black vote went to Haley Stevens. And I asked him, and he talked about the historical tension between black and brown communities in Dearborn and Detroit, and he understood the experience of black people. And the experience of black people are different than the experience of a Puerto Rican in this country and are different than.
Now, he is making a strategy. He is making a strategy to go talk to AOC. And let me tell you why he's making that strategy to go up to the Upper Peninsula and talk to AOC. It's because right now, AOC is quite popular. That is probably why you're proud of her and of all of her accomplishments. But she also can go into southern communities and talk about data centers, which is really important right now to Michigan, about the clean water that they're stripping out of communities, about there not being union jobs. She can talk about how expensive the price of gas is.
RIVERA: Be brutal. Be brutal about it. He needs the black -- he needs black people to vote for him.
ALLISON: He needs black people. He needs white --
RIVERA: And he squares on Obama. I want President Obama.
ALLISON: He'll be there next week. Kamala Harris was there before. He'll be there next week, and a whole bunch of other folks will be there again. The problem is you need more than just one type of person. You have to build a coalition. You need white people. You need black people. You need people who used to vote for Donald Trump and might come over. And guess what? I think he can get that.
RIVERA: Do you know what else is the best argument against Mike Rogers? Florida. That's the best argument.
ALLISON: And he makes that argument too.
RIVERA: Florida is a ten and a ten handicap and he lives in Florida.
ALLISON: What's the best argument against Abdul El-Sayed?
PHILLIP: All right, we're going to leave it there, guys.
RIVERA: The best argument against him?
ALLISON: Yes. And what's in those ads up against Mike Rogers?
RIVERA: I haven't --
ALLISON: Darkened shades of his face, the fact that he is not one of us. That is not the economy. That is not cost of living. That is Islamophobia.
PHILLIP: All right, we're going to leave it there.
Next for us, the Post gets the secret list of ballroom donors from tech giants to someone whose family member got a pardon from Trump. But there's one name that's raising eyebrows, and it's not on the list.
Plus, breaking news tonight, we are learning that the order to restrict Starshield intelligence from Ukraine came from inside the White House. Is the president on the verge of abandoning Ukraine? We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: For days, we have been wondering whether the president is on the verge of abandoning Ukraine. Well, breaking tonight, another explosive sign. Reuters is reporting that an order to restrict a SpaceX satellite system used by Ukraine came from inside the White House when Pentagon officials received a message asking to slow it down.
Now, keep in mind, Elon Musk's Starshield service is used for battlefield communications and drone operations. It's a technology that saves lives against oncoming attacks. It's not clear who ordered the restriction or who was responsible for implementing that order, and the White House claims it wasn't Trump.
But for some context, in recent days, Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Trump betrayed Ukraine with his deal with Russian oil. Ukraine has restarted its attacks on refineries since Russia has as well, despite Trump asking them both not to. And Ukraine has now run out of Patriot missiles, which is a red alarm in its fight against Russia.
[22:25:00]
This is a very serious situation, and this Reuters report seems to confirm what Ukrainian officials had said, which is that the Starshield technology, which allows them to operate these drones at high speeds and allows them to be accurate, was basically being throttled. They could only go so fast, and that limited their ability to respond.
And in response to that, Zelenskyy says that Russia has launched 124 drones overnight alone he said this on Wednesday, and another 145 during the day. In terms of scale, this is one of the largest attacks. It's clear that the Russians are trying to take advantage of the problems with Starlink in Ukraine, and our interceptor drones depend on this connection, among other things.
So, it's creating a very clear opening in the battlefield for Russia right now.
RIVERA: And it's awful, and it's breaking my heart, and I hate to think of the United States of America standing by, and not only just standing by, but maliciously intervening by ordering these systems to operate at a slower speed.
There's a picture that CNN's been showing today of a mother clutching a little baby's hand under the rubble. And when you see these people that -- the mother was obviously trying to comfort the child when the Russian missile or bomb exploded.
And so, I mean, a picture tells a thousand words. It was so humiliating to think that my government is willfully withholding what this heroic nation, defending itself against this monstrous neighbor. I mean, it's just the, it's just the worst. It's so disheartening. And you just -- it's pathetic.
PHILLIP: Yes. It is -- I mean, this is a really active battlefield, and it's hard to understand. But, I mean, May, do you have an understanding of what the White House's and Trump's rationale is for throwing Ukraine under the bus in this particular moment?
MAILMAN: Well, A, I think we're dealing all with anonymous leaks, and so I'm sure we have only part of the story. But if you look at historically the presidencies in which Ukraine has been the most unprotected, that has been during Biden and Obama. And President Trump is trying to end this war.
Now, it's very difficult right now because he's telling Ukraine not to attack Russian energy sources, but Biden did the exact same thing, and I think that some of this --
PHILLIP: How is he trying to end the war?
COOPER: He has been trying to end the war.
PHILLIP: Hold on, I'm talking to May.
MAILMAN: They were just negotiating this week.
PHILLIP: But how -- what is the strategy? Because it seems like the president -- it seems the president has been putting the squeeze on Ukraine, letting Putin have a pass, and I don't see how that advances an effort to end the war.
MAILMAN: He is continuing to increase European support for Ukraine. So, one, when Biden was in office, he would give enough missiles to sort of defend yourself, but not replenish and not take payment for them, especially from Europe, and so there was no way to build the defense industrial base.
A strong America comes from a lot of a multipronged strategy that you might not all just see of like a -- and he's been working with --
PHILLIP: You're talking about Biden. I'm asking about Trump. What is Trump doing to end the war?
COOPER: For one thing, a mediator doesn't take one particular side and only pursue it. He has to work with both sides.
PHILLIP: So, then where's the evidence that he's pressuring Russia as much as he's pressuring Ukraine?
COOPER: We have sanctions up the wazoo. The former senator from South Carolina who died, he signed that.
PHILLIP: Horace, I know you were around last week when he announced that he was going to free up hundreds of millions of barrels of gas from Russia onto the global market so that Russia can have a multi- billion dollar windfall in the middle of the war.
Again, he's undermining -- I agree with you. Lindsey Graham would have, would be rolling over in his grave right now.
COOPER: That is a mischaracterization.
PHILLIP: Those are not my words. Those are what other Republicans have been saying.
COOPER: What you just said is a mischaracterization.
PHILLIP: He would be rolling over in his grave according to other Republicans, because this is exactly what he was trying to prevent from happening.
COOPER: Okay, Abby.
PHILLIP: So, why is the president doing it, Horace?
COOPER: The blank check days for Ukraine are over. That was the Biden administration. President Trump campaigned on saying, we're going to have loans. We're going to have royalty agreements. We're going to have --
PHILLIP: So, why are we writing a blank check to Russia?
BLOW: So, you're saying that they have --
COOPER: We're not writing -- I said that's a mischaracterization.
[22:30:00]
PHILLIP: Okay. So, then characterize it for me.
COOPER: Okay. We have in America a shortage with regard to diesel fuel, and we are saying to both of the parties that we are trying to mediate.
PHILLIP: What about -- (CROSSTALK)
COOPER: We'd like an interim assistance.
PHILLIP: What about the release of Russian diesel onto the global market which is in defiance of U.S. sanctions? What about that?
COOPER: That's a waiver as I just said --
(CROSSTALK)
ASHLEY ALLISON, FORMER NATIONAL COALITIONS DIRECTOR, BIDEN-HARRIS 2020: Why do we have a shortage of diesel?
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: -- as a way to bring --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Horace, that is also called a blank check.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: -- that's not called a blank check. That's a mischaracterization, Abby. That is a mischaracterization.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Putin is getting a (audible) fall of money that they will not otherwise have --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- because the President is undermining U.S.'s actual existing policy in order to make that happen.
COOPER: Russia --
PHILLIP: Horace -- but --
COOPER: That is not true. You can say it. You can interrupt me while I try to speak.
PHILLIP: So tell me, so tell me. What's the impact going to be on the cost of diesel?
COOPER: It will have some (inaudible) effect.
PHILLIP: What is the impact?
COOPER: Probably a two, three, or four cent drop. But that's not my point. My point is Russia has lost over a trillion dollars. It's GDP is impacted right now.
(CROSSTALK) PHILLIP: All right, people. So, Russia gets - Russia gets billions of dollars --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- for us to get a three-cent discount on diesel for a couple of days?
(CROSSTALK)
CHARLES BLOW, THE LANGSTON HGHES FELLOW, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: First of all, Horace, you said it's a blank check. May, you said that the Biden administration wasn't doing enough. So, I don't know where, I don't -- we just listened to you do this whole --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I got interrupted the whole time.
BLOW: And you're still talking, and I'm still interrupting you, because it's too much, it's just too much. So, here's the problem though. I don't necessarily think that Donald Trump is trying to settle the war, get us out of the war. I think Donald Trump is trying to get headlines for midterm.
He is trying -- he looks at diesel, he realizes it is expensive, he realizes that people look at that and say this is costing me something. He wants to get something out of the diesel market in advance of the midterms. And he is willing to give it, throw a bone to Russia to get it. And that's a real problem. But the fact is --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Wait, wait, wait. I disagree with you --
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: I don't need to --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I need you to be quiet.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Horace, Horace, stop. Horace, just stop for a second. Okay? Please. Listen, the diesel prices are high, not because of Ukraine attacking Russia, but because of the Iran war.
ALLISON: Exactly.
PHILLIP: And if Trump really wanted to rectify
ALLISON: Exactly.
PHILLIP: -- this diesel issue, he would actually solve the -- (CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- that has been caused by the Iran war.
ALLISON: And I think the thing that is so contradictory in this moment is that many folks sit at this table and talk about eliminate Iran by any means necessary. And I used to think that that was a similar posture for our enemy Russia, but there seems to be a compromise posture now, that if it will help Donald Trump in this interim for midterms, we can take a more passive approach.
I just grew up thinking Russia was the enemy. Understanding --
MAY MAILMAN, LEGAL DIRECTOR, INDEPENDENT WOMEN: It's not the country itself. It's the regime, right? So, when people don't say eliminate Iran, there are --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: Well, he actually --
BLOW: He literally had said -- he literally said he wanted to destroy the society.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: He actually had said that, but --
MAILMAN: The reason -- the reason you would want to destroy the Iranian regime is the Iranian people don't deserve a terrorist --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: And the Russian people deserve Vladimir Putin?
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: That's what I mean.
GERALDO RIVERA, PEABODY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST: If Russia is getting the windfall from diesel, then they're turning around and they're using that money to undermine our troops in Iran.
ALLISON: Yes. So, you got to --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: You know, you could track it.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: -- we jump to Iran?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on. Horace, did you follow that? BLOW: They were too busy --
COOPER: He said, he said the support from Iran to Russia is going to Iran.
PHILLIP: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Horace, you haven't seen the (inaudible) from U.S. intelligence that Russia is helping Iran?
BLOW: Sir --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: You haven't seen the testimony from the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth under oath on Capitol Hill, where he says that Russia is supporting Iran? You haven't seen that?
COOPER: I saw that back in January - February but I haven't seen that since the war broke out.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay. But let me just tell you --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Hold on a second. I'm here to inform you that that is what is happening, okay? So, what Geraldo just said is correct. It is correct. Russia is not just waging a war against Ukraine, but they are acting against us.
ALLISON: They are enemy working with our enemies.
PHILLIP: They are helping Iran target our bases where our service members are being killed.
COPPER: Secretary Rubio says that they've had conversations with Putin and that they are not doing this.
[22:35:02]
COOPER: So --
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: Horace, Horace. (inaudible) Horace. I know. You are not going to believe the word of Vladimir Putin.
PHILLIP: Okay.
ALLISON: That is basically what you're standing on. COOPER: No, I believe Rubio.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: And do you think Vladimir Putin would lie to Rubio?
PHILLIP: And listen. Let me just be clear. That is not what Rubio said, okay? That might be actually what the President may have said but that is actually in contravention of what his own intelligence agencies are also saying. So, let's just leave that there.
BLOW: Truth is so hard.
PHILLIP: Next for us, "The Washington Post" reveals the big donors for Trump's ballroom construction, but one key player isn't on the list, and it's the President himself. We'll debate that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:40:23]
PHILLIP: A new report is shedding light on who exactly is paying for President Trump's White House ballroom.
"The Washington Post" says that it obtained secret documents revealing major donors behind the $330 million that Trump has collected so far for his prize project. The list includes names like Apple and NVIDIA, which contributed $25 million. There's also Lockheed Martin, Palantir, Comcast, Amazon, Meta, and Coinbase, which all committed $10 million or less.
The Post notes its reporting doesn't establish a connection between donations and favorable actions by the Trump administration, but the documents show a vast majority of the funds came from companies and wealthy individuals with interests before the federal government. Noticeably absent from this list, though, is Trump, even though he has promised that he would donate last year. And I'm paying for it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And I'm paying for it. I'm paying for it. And that's an expensive ballroom.
It would actually be a beautiful addition. It's going to cost nothing. I'll spend the whole thing myself.
I think there'll be nothing like it, and it's being paid for 100 percent by me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Shocked. I am absolutely shocked that Trump has not committed a dime to his ballroom.
MAILMAN: The presidency is young. They still have two years in this. But when he says me, you know, he means me as in not the taxpayer, and so not like my person --
PHILLIP: Huh? No, that's not what he means. No, no, that's not what he meant. He meant me as in I'm worth $7 billion on paper. Where's the -- where's the money?
MAILMAN: Okay, so, all right. Well, we can see for the next two years, every day, we can go check and see whether President Trump has donated. But I think people are -- you know, this is a big story because we want to know who paid for it. And I think at the end of the day, private donations for public works is a pretty common thing. Ever since Jackie Kennedy took money through the White House Historical Association to pay for White House renovations, Smithsonian, Carnegie Libraries, this is very common.
PHILLIP: Why is it like a state secret?
BLOW: Yes, exactly.
PHILLIP: That's the thing I don't understand.
RIVERA: Then why is it even a story as long as we're not paying for it?
PHILLIP: Well, because, let me tell -- let me answer that. First of all, it is a secret. The reason "The Washington Post" has this is not because it's disclosed, but because they obtained it, which the White House called a leak. But let me give you just one example of why you might, as a taxpayer or as an American, be concerned.
There was an individual, a Venezuelan-Italian banker, who was indicted on bribery charges. His daughter donated to a Trump PAC first and then agreed to donate $25 million about a month after her father's charges were reduced to a misdemeanor in a plea agreement. He was pardoned by Trump.
And this whole arrangement in which people who are getting -- we don't know what happened here. But you're getting a pardon from the President, but your child is also donating, perhaps on your behalf, not only to the President's political interests, but also to this ballroom, it raises questions about whether there are favors being done here.
RIVERA: It raises questions, but as the Post states, they did not answer, they didn't complete the loop.
PHILLIP: Sure.
RIVERA: In other words, so --
PHILLIP: But are you curious? Are you curious? Would it be bothersome to you if someone basically paid for a pardon?
RIVERA: I think in terms of pardons, if you look beneath the blankets in pardons, the whole sphere is rotten. I mean, there are all these reasons the presidents pardoned people.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I don't think so.
BLOW: You can't even compare anybody else to Donald Trump's pardon regime. Not even a (inaudible), not even --
(CROSSTALK)
MAILMAN: Maybe pardoning your son, maybe?
UNKNOWN: So that -- so that one --
PHILLIP: Listen.
BLOW: And then he pardoned every single person who was involved in January 6th, and you're comparing that to one pardon of Biden's son? Are you serious?
MAILMAN: I -- so I will say, the other thing that "The Washington Post," --
BLOW: Exactly.
MAILMAN: --the reason that they did not connect the dots is because when you look at the sheer, like the vast number of donors, a lot of them are competitors. Like, this is not something that they want -- Microsoft, it says donated $10 million. Microsoft has its H-1B program suspended.
[22:40:00]
This is not --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on. We have to take a break. But just to be clear, most of the companies that I named have business before this government. And it's not about H-1Bs. It's about billions in government contracts. If it were about H-1Bs, that's small ball by comparison to the type of business that they're doing with the United States government. A lot more to discuss on this when we come back from a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:50:06]
PHILLIP: Welcome back. As we've been discussing, President Trump's ballroom, to the tune of $330 million, is being funded by a secret list of corporations and individuals.
And one of the reasons this is very relevant is because it turns out that this idea of corruption, of people paying to play, of people being able to buy their way into favors from the government, is emerging as a top issue for voters.
A Fox News poll found that corruption in government is right up there. Almost 90 percent say it's one of their top issues in this midterm elections. This administration has, up until this moment, seemed to not care at all about that perception or reality.
MAILMAN: Yes, I don't, I mean, just one word with corruption, especially from a Fox News poll, I can't tell exactly what people are targeting, because especially the President has been focused on the fraud task force.
UNKNOWN: Absolutely.
MAILMAN: And looking at the amount of money that seems to just disappear, if actually, Medicaid paid out what it says that it is per person in poverty, it'd be like $85,000 per person. And people are not getting $85,000 per person. So I can't really read into that, of course. Nobody wants corruption in government. But there's a lot that's contained in that word.
ALLISON: A couple of things. One, I actually, to go back to the first segment, I actually think that's why AOC was on the campaign trail with Abdul in Michigan. Because she has been a backdrop person who has said, there are billionaires who are getting rich, enriching themselves, including potentially our president. And regardless of whether you're a Republican or Democrat, it's the top versus the bottom, not the left or the right.
And so I think that is actually a message. I don't think the corruption that you're talking about is Medicare fraud. They are thinking about how we're raising hundreds of millions of dollars for a ballroom and people can't afford gas or food.
The other thing I think that is important to point out is who is on that list and the type of issues they're actually facing and issues in this midterm. A.I. -- let me finish on this one. A.I. data centers is a key issue right now. And a lot of the tech companies on there know that depending on the outcome of the midterm elections, what happens in 2028 could actually affect their bottom line and how they do business.
And so, I think those are some of the questions that are coming up of life, not just if people are paying, but who is paying and for what?
RIVERA: Going back to your point about corruption, I submit that if you add up all of the -- and you know, I'm a pretty moderate person, I think, in my politics. You add up all of the money that was misspent during the COVID year, you would find fraud at such a gigantic scale it would dwarf even a golden ballroom.
UNKNOWN: Yes. Absolutely.
BLOW: That's interesting, but I think people are seeing an advancing plutocracy. And this is not the '80s. We are not interested in lifestyles of rich and famous. We are interested in more equality and more of that money coming down to the workers. And it is not there and we keep seeing ballrooms and rich people donating and getting favors and getting advances. And that is not good.
PHILLIP: All right. Next, we're going to react to your feedback from cnn.com/abby. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:00]
PHILLIP: And now, some viewer feedback from cnn.com/abby. The first one says, "Look, as a Texas Democrat, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. We wanted Paxton because he is beatable. If anybody is to blame, if Paxton loses, it is the MAGA voters who listen to what's- his-face, not Cornyn." By what's-his-face, I suppose that's Donald Trump.
COOPER: Well, in my county, I'm likely going to see between 80 and 85 percent of the county go for the Republican. It's San Jacinto County. It is the county that made the difference for Rubio. And it is the county that sent Rubio for Cruz.
PHILLIP: Okay.
COOPER: For Cruz.
PHILLIP: But is Paxton --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: What's that?
PHILLIP: Is Paxton a weak candidate?
COOPER: He's a weaker candidate than we had. He's a weaker candidate than we had. But Mr. Cornyn needs to understand that if you get beat by a weaker candidate in the primary, that's on you. That's not on the voters.
PHILLIP: It's not on Donald Trump for putting his thumb on the scale in the primary.
MAILMAN: President Trump put his thumb on the scale, but a lot of Texans were tired of Cornyn. He's in his fourth term as a senator. I mean, he's given it a good run. And I think Paxton actually was really well-liked as an attorney general. He did a good job as an attorney general. And when you would see cases, blockbuster cases, be brought to the Supreme Court, that was Paxton.
COOPER: And that's why he won the primary.
BLOW: It makes so much sense that you live in 80 percent of Texas.
RIVERA: If Paxton wins in Texas, it will be in spite of the immigration policy that has alienated the entire Rio Grande Valley of Texas.
PHILLIP: So here's another viewer comment. "I'm a Muslim African American born in this country, and it hurts my soul to hear a president say that about Islam when he doesn't know anything about Islam." ALLISON: Yes, it hurts a lot of people when he makes derogatory comments about countries as whole countries, when he says terrible derogatory things about Asian people around COVID, calling it, I won't even say it.
[23:00:05]
But words have power, and they especially have power when it comes from the person who is sitting in the bully pulpit.
PHILLIP: A commenter -- this might be in your interest, says "Identity politics are actually stereotyping politics."
BLOW: No, I think what politicians would generally do at the end of a campaign is try to figure out how to get out each segment of their base.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
BLOW: That's just smart campaigning. The -- also, (inaudible) of campaign has taken a principled position that they are going to not deal with it -- do it that way. They're going to focus on these big issues about healthcare, about money in your pocket, money out of politics. They believe that everybody has, you know, is can relate to those things and that they are riding banking on that to get people to the polls.
I happen to believe that acknowledging and saying, I see you in particular, gay person, woman --
ALLISON: Elderly --
BLOW: -- black person --
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: How about wearing a tie?
BLOW: That's not it. But I think that actually helps him. But I think -- but I do think this idea of getting each individual base out by acknowledging them is very helpful.
ALLISON: But there's a lot of ways -- sorry, Charles.
BLOW: No (inaudible).
ALLISON: There's a lot of ways to identify. And I think that the easiest hit against identity politics is to go to race. But like NASCAR, as a, I'm a NASCAR driver. I'm a soccer mom, right? But we're okay with those type of --
(CROSSTALK)
MAILMAN: -- anyone can go to NASCAR. So the thing is --
(CROSSTALK) PHILLIP: Well, but I do think that to her point, it is a form of identity politics.
ALLISON: It is.
PHILLIP: NASCAR, you know, UFC fights on the White House lawn.
MAILMAN: That's dividing and identifying people, not based on their preferences and how they choose to live their lives, but on who they -- what they look like.
BLOW: Yes.
MAILMAN: That might be powerful. That might work. But I don't think we have to say it's a good thing.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: Well, 80 percent of the people voting (inaudible) -- why? You don't have to do any of that.
PHILLIP: Okay, two quick things. One viewer, Horace, says "You should be the new White House press secretary." So, take that --
UNKNOWN: At least you can read (ph).
PHILLIP: Another says -- another says baby boy Philip will be a grown man before Trump donates to the ballroom.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: Perhaps. All right, everyone, thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." Before you go, you can stream the show live or watch on demand with an all access subscription. Scan the Q.R. code on your screen or go to cnn.com/watch to learn more.
"Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
