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Officers Speak Out About Police Response To Shooter Who Killed Six; Finland Joins NATO, Doubling Alliance's Border With Russia; Biden: We Have To Address "Potential Risks" Of AI. Aired 11:30a-12p ET
Aired April 05, 2023 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00]
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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Criminal defendant and former President Donald Trump lashed out at the prosecution and judge just hours after he was warned not to do so. Now, prosecutors say he sought to undermine the integrity of the 2016 election. It was part of an unlawful plan to suppress negative information and deceive tax collectors. And while there's not a gag order in this case, it's just not yet, the judge overseeing the case warned both sides to mind their manners. Trump's next court appearance is scheduled for December 4, Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: For the first time, we are hearing from the first police officers on the scene of the Nashville school shoot -- school shooting where three staffers and three children were killed. And when you hear them describe it in their own words, the pain and trauma, of what they had to do is still very clear.
CNN's Isabel Rosales is joining me now with more on all of this. Isabel, how do they describe what they saw when they had to go into that school?
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, they described a chaotic scene and overwhelming of the senses. Fire alarms blaring everywhere. We saw and heard that ourselves with the body camera footage that was released. Also, the air is smoky from gunpowder. They could even smell that gunpowder.
Then they heard the sounds of a gun firing. They thought that -- they followed that noise up to the second floor and it is there that they confronted Audrey Hale, shooting Audrey Hale dead 14 minutes since Hale began that rampage inside of the school. Now, the police chief, John Drake, says even before the officers arrived to the school, they were so focused and intent on saving the children that many of them left behind ballistic vests and helmets that would have helped them in confronting the shooter. Listen.
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REX ENGELBERT, METRO NASHVILLE POLICE OFFICER: I definitely wish I had also deployed my rifle-calibrated heavy plates when I found myself at the front of the stack where I found the stimulus of a threat on the second floor of the school.
JEFF MATHES, SERGEANT, METRO NASHVILLE POLICE: All of us stepped over a victim. I to this day don't know how I did that morally but training is what kicked in. There's obviously been loss of sleep. Children heard more than normal.
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ROSALES: And, Kate, Chief Drake says he's not only proud of his officers, but also of 911 dispatchers who handled those difficult calls, and also school employees who followed the active shooter training by pulling kids out of the hallways and locking doors. He says that that save lives. Meanwhile, the chief has attended every single funeral of these victims. He has one more today, the head of that school, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Isabel, thank you so much. The trauma is so evident throughout that entire community.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: You can really see what these officers go through.
BOLDUAN: Yes.
SIDNER: And just that glimpse where he's like a moral decision, I don't know how I did it.
BOLDUAN: I know.
SIDNER: Gun violence, speaking of which, is surging here in the United States. It's just two -- in just two years, firearm deaths are up by 23 percent. And now a new study is looking at where victims die and what needs to be done to stop more deaths. It found that most shooting victims die at the scene before they can even be treated.
CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard joins us now live. You looked at this study. What does it tell us?
[11:35:05]
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Well, Sara, not only does it tell us that most gunshot wound victims die at the scene, but that has been increasing in the past couple of decades. When you look at the numbers, this study shows that the proportion of deaths at the scene increased from 51.8 percent in 1999 to 56.6 percent in 2021. So, what that tells us is that people who died from firearm injuries are now nine percent more likely to die at the scene than they were two decades ago, Sara.
SIDNER: It is just so disturbing to see that number go up --
HOWARD: Yes.
SIDNER: -- when we're supposed to be advancing and in an advanced society. Jacqueline, thank you so much for the details on that. John.
BERMAN: All right. Thank you so much, Sara.
Sending a message to the world. Now, Finland -- now that Finland is officially a member of NATO, what does this mean for Europe security moving forward? And artificial intelligence. Will it help you or replace you? The White House now taking a closer look at artificial intelligence.
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[11:40:32]
BOLDUAN: Secretary of State Tony Blinken is in Brussels today for more meetings with fellow foreign ministers of NATO nations. The talks coming as NATO added a new member -- just added a new member. Finland became the 31st member of NATO. That was just yesterday.
And today, the secretary-general reiterated that he's not stopping there. He wants Sweden approved to join "as quickly as possible." So, what does this moment mean for NATO, and importantly for the fight in Ukraine?
Joining us right now is the former Prime Minister of Finland, Alexander Stubb. Prime Minister, it's great to see you again. Thank you for being here.
ALEXANDER STUBB, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF FINLAND: My pleasure.
BOLDUAN: I saw that you wrote about this big moment. You wrote, thanks for having us, you won't be disappointed. What do you mean by that?
STUBB: Well, I mean that we bring a lot of capability into NATO. First of all, we bring military material. That means 62 F-18s, soon 64 F-35, so one of the most sophisticated land-to-air and air-to-land missile defense systems.
Secondly, we bring human capital. That means 900,000 men and women in reserves, including myself, threat or opportunity, I don't know. And 280,000 men and women that we can mobilize at wartime.
And thirdly, we bring human willpower. In other words, we have one of the strongest measured wills to defend our country in wartime. So, I think we are a tremendous value-added and security asset for the alliance.
BOLDUAN: And you have so much at stake. Just yesterday, I was laying out just what -- the border that Finland shares with Russia, what that means for NATO. NATO has now doubled its border with Russia with Finland's inclusion in the Alliance. Would this -- would this have happened? Would Finland have joined with the Finnish people wanted to have joined NATO, had it not been for that Vladimir Putin invading Ukraine?
STUBB: The direct answer is no. I think for us who have always supported -- myself, NATO membership for Finland, we should thank Vladimir Putin. It's a tragic reason to join NATO but a very understandable one. When your security is threatened, when a leader of a superpower with
nuclear weapons like Vladimir Putin can slaughter Ukrainians the way in which he is doing for absolutely no reason, then the natural reaction, I think, for the Finnish population, for the Swedish population and the political leaders of the countries is immediately to seek refuge in NATO. The right thing to do and very understandable.
BOLDUAN: Some of the Kremlin's response to the news of Finland joining NATO is, this forces us to take countermeasures in tactical and strategic terms. Prime Minister, does that scare you?
STUBB: No, not at all. I mean, it's actually a quite moderate language. I expected it to be much rougher. But the truth of the matter is that we used to be afraid of three things with Russia.
One was that they would cut economic ties. Well, they have been cut and we managed. Two, that they would cut energy ties. Well, they've cut it, and we've managed. Three, the military threat. But to be honest, they have proven to be quite weak in Ukraine, and in any case, they will not be fighting on two fronts.
And to put it bluntly, I think Finland is a safe pair of hands. It's not a country that Russia would want to attack, much like Norway, which has been a NATO member for 74 years. They're not going to attack Norway, either.
BOLDUAN: One thing that doesn't seem to be quite worked out yet is whether Finland will accept foreign troops on its soil or even nuclear weapons belonging to NATO allies. What do you think that your government should do on this -- on this front?
STUBB: Well, when I left office in 2016, I took a conscious decision not to give any advice to the government. But reading from public sources, I think it's quite clear that the message from our president and prime minister and government has been that we're not putting limits on our membership. And I think as the next government enters into office sometime, say in July -- or June or July, they will start thinking about what the NATO profile is.
I think for the rest of the world, think of Finland, pretty much like Norway. So, our profile is very Nordic. We're not putting limits to our NATO membership as we didn't put limits to the trainings that we did with NATO when we were partners, not full members.
[11:45:03]
BOLDUAN: Right. I do want to ask you. We also just heard from Vladimir Putin directly. He was in a meeting with the new U.S. Ambassador to Russia. And in that meeting, he said in their presence, that he blamed the United States for the war in Ukraine.
I read that and I started thinking if he is casting blame around in that way like that, what hope -- how hopeful are you of seeing an end to the war in Ukraine anytime soon?
STUBB: Well, I'm not very hopeful that this war will end anytime soon. I think we are in it for the long haul. It is a stalemate situation.
And I should also add that I don't think the West would have been as united and steadfast in helping Ukraine had Ukraine fallen into the hands of Putin early on. I think, you know, when you're desperate, you go into the blame game. And, of course, the Russian narrative has been from the beginning that this was NATO's fault or the U.S.'s fault. And I think it's utter nonsense.
And anyone from the West to suggests even anything in that direction, I think, doesn't really know what he or she is speaking about. This is the fault one-man only. And that man, of course, is Vladimir Putin.
BOLDUAN: Former Prime Minister, it's great to see you again. Thank you so much. Sara.
SIDNER: The rise of artificial intelligence has some experts and even some of those who co-founded the technology seriously concerned. And now, President Biden is weighing in. We'll weigh the risks and rewards of the advanced technology.
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[11:51:00]
BERMAN: If there is one thing that seems to excite, intrigue, and scare the heck out of people right now, it is artificial intelligence, stuff like ChatGPT. ChatGPT pulls text from across the internet to mimic the response of a human. And while there are lots of benefits to technology like this, there is also real concern about the unintended consequences because we have all seen the Terminator. This is something that President Biden addressed yesterday at a White House meeting, not the Terminator exactly, but the overall impact when he was meeting with science and technology advisors.
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: AI can help deal with some very difficult challenges like disease and climate change, but we also have to address the potential risks to our society, to our economy, to our national security.
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BERMAN: And CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich who has done wonderful work covering AI over the last several months joins us now. So, just big picture, what are we talking about in terms of benefits and risks?
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's huge that the president is talking about AI. It says that it's here, it's now, it's the future. And I think most Americans know AI because of ChatGPT. It has huge benefits for doctors to help them diagnose patients, for lawyers to scan through thousands of documents looking for that key piece of evidence, and for police departments to scan thousands of hours of body cam footage.
But like everything, there are also concerns. Misinformation is a huge one. Deep fakes, we saw a picture of the Pope wearing a white puffer jacket, that was not actually happening. That was AI.
And weaponization of artificial intelligence is huge. And that's why you have the president saying that he wants to create a Bill of Rights for AI. And that's what you're hearing from people like Elon Musk, who signed a letter saying that he wants to put a pause on the out-of- control AI race.
BERMAN: Well, talk to us more about that. What are business leaders say in general about this?
YURKEVICH: Well, they are embracing it. Walmart says that 65 percent of its stores are going to be using AI. JP Morgan says that they have 2700 people dedicated just to artificial intelligence. And this is really spanning the globe and the job market. I want you to take a listen to one AI expert on how he puts it.
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SHELLY PALMER, PROFESSOR OF ADVANCED MEDIA, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: AI is going to assist us in every single aspect of every single job. There is no job -- no job anywhere that's not going to be impacted by this. None. Nowhere. So, get it out of your head.
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YURKEVICH: And, John, you and I have talked about this. AI is coming for our jobs too.
BERMAN: Well, no. Talk to us more about that. I think it's my -- it's my favorite thing.
YURKEVICH: OK.
BERMAN: I mean, not that because I -- believe me --
YURKEVICH: Yes.
BERMAN: -- this job I need to keep. But when you say that AI is going to take jobs, what jobs is it most likely to take?
YURKEVICH: Well, I think journalism is a big one. But not take our jobs. Replace certain parts of our jobs. And the key is, if you're a journalist, you want to be able to embrace AI, you want to figure out how to use it. Use it efficiently because that will make you quicker and also a better journalist.
BERMAN: All right. Vanessa, Yurkevich, thanks for that. I appreciate it. No, it's great reporting.
YURKEVICH: Sorry to scare you.
BERMAN: Vanessa does great reporting on this. I really do appreciate it.
I mean, I was already concerned with Phil Mattingly, right? Like -- you know. And now, we have to worry about AI taking our job this time. BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE) I love about this, that President Biden says like, there are benefits but tech companies, you did could take responsibility. I mean, really? Are -- like --
SIDNER: OK. But there are other things here that are going on, right? So, you just talked about worrying about your job. Actually, I'm going to make it worse because you go online you quickly type in, you know, deep fake anchors. It's already happening except for they're putting out misinformation. So, you've got what looks like a newsroom, what looks like somebody's giving you the real deal, and it is all misinformation already happening. I think we have already jumped the shark on AI.
BERMAN: I guess my question is the deep fake anchors need deep fake agents, you know? Do you --AI -- do you get --
BOLDUAN: Do you still have to (INAUDIBLE) this much?
BERMAN: Do you get AI agents? And no, look --
BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean --
BERMAN: -- investors had done great reporting all those two.
BOLDUAN: Yes.
BERMAN: And the jobs that are not easy to replace are things like preschool teachers.
SIDNER: Right.
BERMAN: Teachers are obviously visual artists, people who do things and create things that can't be replaced so easily or have to have sort of empathy.
[11:55:06]
BOLDUAN: Yes, but where the line is between like it can assist and help and when it takes over and as scary, I think is it -- I just think it's dangerous. I'm just going to put it out there.
SIDNER: I'm with you. Because nefarious actors, they're always out there.
BOLDUAN: Well, it also like almost everything you cover is like often nefarious actor itself --
SIDNER: Correct.
BOLDUAN: -- and it was so --
SIDNER: I'm on you in that narrative.
BOLDUAN: And on that note -- and on that note.
SIDNER: Thank you so much for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL with my wonderful co-anchors. We'll be back with you tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. "INSIDE POLITICS" is coming up next.
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