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Lindell Ordered To Pay $5M For Peddling False 2000 Election Claims; McCarthy Unveils Debt Limit Plan, Says Dems Need To Negotiate; McCarthy Faces Some GOP Skeptics On Debt Ceiling Plan; Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) Discusses Supreme Court Extending Abortion Pill Access Until Tomorrow Night, McCarthy Debt Limit Plan; Ultramarathon Runner Disqualified After Using Car In Race. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired April 20, 2023 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And the National Weather Service office has confirmed that at least eight tornadoes ripped through Oklahoma on Wednesday. At least three people were killed, but officials actually fear that death toll could rise.
More than 50 million people from Texas to Wisconsin are bracing for more severe weather today.
And new charges could be coming for the man who shot and killed a woman who was in a car that just pulled into the wrong driveway in Upstate New York. And 65-year-old Kevin Monahan is currently facing second-degree murder charges for killing 20-year-old Kaylin Gillis.
The district attorney in the case says a significant amount of evidence has been gathered.
Boris?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Right on the heels of FOX News' historic settlement, there's another big payout tied to 2020 election lies.
MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell has been ordered to pay an expert who debunked his false claims to the tune of $5 million. And here's the kicker. This was all Lindell's own idea.
Back in 2021, the staunch Trump supporter presented what he claimed was clear-cut data related to alleged voter fraud. And he laid out this challenge. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE LINDELL, CEO, MYPILLOW: There's a $5 million prize for anybody that can -- that can prove the election data that I have from the 2020 election is false. OK? Is not from that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You'll never believe what happened next. One computer whiz took him up on it, signed a contract and then proved the data was bogus.
CNN's Sara Murray is with us. She broke this story.
And, Sara, Mike Lindell, he did not want to pay up. But now he has to.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Not only did he not want to pay up. He didn't think he was ever going to have to pay up. He was so confident in his election fraud claims, he invited all these people to this cyber symposium in 2021, said, "Prove me wrong."
A man named Robert Zeidman, a cyber security expert in his own right, took him up on that and said it was just so clear that the claims were bogus.
But here's Lindell. Here is his confidence that he's never going to have anyone win this challenge. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you have the idea for the proof-Mike-wrong challenge, did you have an expectation you might have to pay out $5 million?
LINDELL: No. Why would I have that because I already had it validated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you didn't have any concerns that someone might win the proof-Mike-wrong challenge?
LINDELL: No because they would have to show it wasn't from 2020. And it was, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now Robert Zeidman, who proved this wrong, he's a Trump supporter. He thought he was going to witness a historic event. He was so disappointed in Lindell.
Here is what his attorney, Brian Glasser, had to say today.
"The lawsuit in verdict marks another important moment in the ongoing proof that the 2020 election was legal and valid and the role of cybersecurity and ensuring that integrity."
SANCHEZ: That did sound like a nervous laugh in that deposition by Mike Lindell.
What are the odds that this guy is actually going to get his money?
MURRAY: So I talked to Mike Lindell very briefly today. He has vowed to me that he is going to be taking this court.
You know, I also talked to the attorneys who worked on this. They're very hopeful that the payout is going to come from this.
Robert Zeidman was a little less hopeful. He's like, I think Mike Lindell is going to drag this on. I'm not really sure if I'm ever going to see this money.
SANCHEZ: Well, hopefully he does. I mean, he was proven, right, you know? If you -- if you make a deal like that, you put it out publicly, you've got to pay up.
MURRAY: We'll see if he ever does.
SANCHEZ: Sara Murray, thank you so much.
Jim?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: All right. The White House is not budging in the ongoing game of chicken over this nation's debt limit.
President Biden has rejected House Speaker Kevin McCarthy's new proposal to raise the $31.4 trillion debt ceiling by $1.5 trillion, but in exchange for, really, a demand for big spending cuts desired by Republicans.
The White House -- and we should note, many leading economists, argue that the full faith and credit of the United States should never be used as a bargaining chip in negotiations such as this.
That's because a default could trigger a slew of economic troubles in this country and around the world. a recession, potentially, a downgrade of the nation's debt, job losses, federal workers losing crucial benefits.
It is also worth noting the facts here, that the debt ceiling has been raised 78 times by Congress, 29 times under a Democratic president, 49 times, nearly twice as much, under a Republican president.
That includes three times under former President Trump. President Biden so far has raised the debt ceiling just once.
CNN's Manu Raju, he's at Capitol Hill.
So, Manu, we know the White House, they're refusing to negotiate on this. They feel they shouldn't have to negotiate with the nation's credit kind of being held over their heads here.
But we also know some Republicans are not on board for this plan. So where does it stand? Is it dead on arrival?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly dead on arrival in the United States Senate and with the White House.
But the focus right now is in the House itself. That's where Kevin McCarthy is moving behind the scenes trying to lock down enough support. And he has little margin for error. And 218 votes is what he needs to get this out of the House next week.
Meaning, he cannot lose more than four Republican votes on this plan, which has been negotiated behind the scenes for months, was revealed yesterday. It would raise the national debt limit by $1.5 trillion or by next March, whatever comes first. [13:35:07]
And also through the range of spending costs and also Republican priorities, including blocking Biden student loan forgiveness plan. That's one element of this proposal.
In addition, it would impose new work requirements for the Medicaid program and other social welfare programs.
Also it would kill new IRS funding that is -- was part of the Inflation Reduction Act that Democrats passed along party lines in the last Congress.
And also clawing back already enacted relief aid for the Covid 19 pandemic. It also proposes a slew of cuts across the board on domestic programs as well.
Democrats call these cuts draconian and don't want this part of any sort of debt limit discussion.
But Republicans I talked to today still are not sold on this idea, and some are not certain they're going to vote for it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I'm still struggling with the fact that we're $32 trillion in debt, and it's -- and I realize we're decreasing the rate of growth, which is the government saying, but the reality is we're still $32 trillion-plus in debt.
RAJU: Where are you leaning now?
BURCHETT: If it was right now, I would be a no.
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): It gives me a little bit of heartburn. This is an opportunity to show the country that we can lead on the fiscal responsibility.
RAJU: But at the moment, you're still leaning no?
MACE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: McCarthy and his team are still confident that they will ultimately get the votes next week in the House. But then what happens after that, for Democrats, they say they will not even entertain this in the United States Senate.
I caught up with the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, and I asked them will they change their posture? Will they agree to negotiate? He said, quote, "Everything stays the same. No brinksmanship. No hostage taking clean, clean, clean."
Meaning he wants a debt ceiling increase without any conditions whatsoever. That's a position that McCarthy's rejected. So the starring game is only going to continue as we prepare for the first ever default, which could hit as soon as this summer.
SCIUTTO: Just getting closer.
Manu Raju, thanks so much.
You know what's interesting about that IRS funding, Brianna? It means you've been actually able to get an IRS person on the telephone, a live person on the telephone, because there's more staff, which can help sometimes.
KEILAR: Yes, fancy that.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KEILAR: You might need it right around now, right?
There's a Friday deadline for the Supreme Court to rule in this dispute over access to the abortion drug Mifepristone. Will lawmakers try to take on the issue themselves? We'll be asking the leader of progressives in the House.
Plus, the family of an inmate in Atlanta, who died say that his filthy bug-infested cell, wasn't fit for a diseased animal. Now leaders of the jail have stepped down and an investigation is underway. We have the latest, next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:42:08]
KEILAR: We have all eyes right now on the Supreme Court. A ruling on the most widely used method of abortion, specifically on the most widely used abortion pill, Mifepristone, could come at any time between now and midnight tomorrow.
The justices extended their self-imposed deadline yesterday while we were on the air.
And what that did was, it gave them more time to decide if this drug that's been used by millions of women to terminate pregnancies but also to treat miscarriages since it was approved in 2000, should stay on the market here in the U.S.
The battle over the abortion pill comes after a Texas judge abruptly revoked the FDA approval of the medication.
Joining us now to talk more about this is Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington state. She is the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.
Thank you so much for taking time to be with us today.
I just want to ask you, if the Supreme Court does allow restrictions on this pill to go into effect, what can you do? And what, if anything, will be done? Do you or -- pardon me? What, if anything, will you be wishing Congress had done when Democrats had the majority?
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, Brianna, it's great to see you.
I mean, I think in terms of what Democrats have done, we did our job in the House. We passed the Women's Health Protection Act that codified abortion rights. We actually passed it a couple of times.
But as you know, it ran into the filibuster in the Senate. This ridiculous idea that 40 Senators get to block something that the majority of the country wants. So we were never able to finish it and pass it in the Senate.
And so this is a really difficult time. If the Supreme Court rules in a way that restricts Mifepristone, it would have enormous consequences for women across the country.
It's why some states, including my governor, has already stockpiled some supplies of Mifepristone, so that, for a couple of years, we will be able to continue to provide for our residents in Washington state and those who come into the state.
But it is going to be a massive problem for people across the country. And it's going to throw our entire FDA process into chaos, which I think people don't understand.
That means that your cancer drug at any time could be revoked. If somebody suddenly decides they don't like it, or your diabetes drug or whatever it is.
And it means that actually getting companies to invest in drug therapies, knowing that when the FDA goes through a scientific process, it is done and nobody is going to challenge it, I think is going to become more difficult, too.
So it would be a terrible ruling. And I'm really hoping that the Supreme Court doesn't go there.
KEILAR: Could Congress, when controlled by Democrats, have specifically codified abortion protections more narrowly like for the FDA approval of this pill?
[13:45:04]
JAYAPAL: You know it would have been subject to the same filibuster rules, and that's why I say we have to get rid of the filibuster.
And at least now, you know, we have a significant majority, but still not 50 votes in the Senate to at least do carve outs of the filibuster for codifying abortion rights.
So we are going to continue to work to get the majority that we need that we can do that in the Senate. And at the same time, I think you're seeing states pushing back.
I mean, look at the result of the Wisconsin Supreme Court race. Americans, Republicans, Independents and Democrats are saying we do not want abortion banned in our state. We do not want a Supreme Court justice in our bedrooms telling us what to do or some Texas judge in our bedroom, telling us what to do.
And I wish that the Republican Party would listen to their own constituents. People across this country understand and what abortion to be safe and legal.
KEILAR: Congresswoman, turning to the debt ceiling battle. You've -- you've seen this proposal from House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, raising the debt ceiling by $1.5 trillion.
It's tied, though, two huge federal spending cuts of Biden administration and progressive priorities.
If this were to pass the House next week, which is a possibility, how does the Biden administration stay the course on their no-negotiating policy?
JAYAPAL: Well, look, I think we just have to put to the American people what's at stake. The American economy is at stake here.
We have to pay our bills. Our reputation is on the line. The world economy is at stake. We have to pay our bills. That is what we do here in Congress.
And what Republicans are trying to do is putting forward a plan that is cruel, extreme and unworkable, that would hold the American people hostage.
It would create millions of lost jobs. It would create, you know, millions of dollars of lost pensions. It would cut some of the basic safety net services that Americans depend on.
And so I think we have to just be clear that if you want to have a discussion about the budget, then we should have a discussion about the budget as part of the appropriations process.
But first, we need to have a clean debt ceiling raise. That is what Democratic and Republicans have done in the past. And this is -- this is really unbelievably irresponsible.
Secondly, if you want to talk about appropriations, I mean, I'm just going to point out that the first bill Republicans passed was to take away the money that we gave to the IRS to crack down on wealthy tax cheats. Instead they want to take away money from regular Americans.
So I think this is the -- you know, this is what we're going to have to discuss. But that's part of the appropriations process, Brianna, not the debt ceiling process.
KEILAR: Congresswoman I only have a few seconds. Can you assure Americans we will not default?
JAYAPAL: We cannot default. And Republicans are at the center of that. And that's what I want the American people to know. They are pushing us towards a default. This is unheard of to tie the debt ceiling to a budget negotiation.
Those are two completely separate things. Let America pay our bills, clean debt ceiling, and then we can talk about the budget.
KEILAR: We've seen brinksmanship before. It has not gone well definitely.
Congresswoman, thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate it.
Boris?
[13:48:29]
SANCHEZ: An ultramarathoner disqualified from an elite 50-mile race after hitching a ride in her friend's car. Why she says she did it, next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:53:23]
SANCHEZ: A top ultramarathon runner has been stripped of her medal and disqualified after she was caught traveling in a car during a recent race in the U.K.
Here is Scottish runner, Joasia Zakrzewski. She was supposed to run 50 miles from Manchester to Liverpool.
And she initially finished in third. But rumors started circulating when her post-race tracking data revealed she completed one of those miles in an impossible one minute and 40 seconds.
CNN's Tom Foreman is here to break down what happened and how she is responding.
Tom, a minute and 40 seconds
(CROSSTALK)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: OK, that's fast. Fastest person in the world could not do that really fast.
(CROSSTALK)
FOREMAN: Look, here's what happened. This is a 50-mile course. Yes, it's a long course. But in ultra running, it's considered a very forgiving course.
It's largely flat. It's largely even. There aren't all these huge challenges, hills and rocks and roots and trees and creeks, like you often encounter in such races.
Nonetheless, she says she flew in from Australia. She was very tired. She wasn't feeling well. And along the way here, she hit a part where her leg was hurting. She wanted to drop out of the race. A friend came along in a car, she hopped in the car, road 2.5 miles to
the next aid station, allegedly, where she told a race marshal, according to her, that she was ready to drop out.
Exactly what she said to them was that she was just feeling too tired to hurt at this point, and she needed to drop out of the race, no longer running officially. That's what she told him at the aid station.
She also said that she really would never, ever cheated. That's what she said. Nonetheless, she went to the end. They gave her the third- place trophy. She took pictures with it. She went away.
And according to the race director, for days, they never heard a word from her. Just like she won.
[13:55:03]
SANCHEZ: She would never, ever cheated. And yet she's pictured holding the metal celebrating.
FOREMAN: Yes, it's not a good thing. It's not a good thing to be glad we're doing this story with you, Tom.
And our viewers may not realize this because you're decked out in a suit, but Tom is an ultra the athlete.
You are an ultramarathon runner, a long distance. And he wrote a book about it.
How difficult would it be for you -- say you were in that position? You were running, somebody -- I come along in a car and I say, Tom, hop in. How difficult would it be for you to get away with that kind of cheating?
By the way, here's visual evidence of that's --
(CROSSTALK)
FOREMAN: -- from that marathon, Boston Marathon a few years ago.
Yes, I've done dozens of marathons. I've done more than a half dozen of these ultramarathons, 50 miles or more.
Cheating would not be hard in the sense they tend to be small races. There's a lot of open space, a lot of time you're alone, especially out in the woods.
And they're incredibly demanding. This is exhausting to do this. There are times when your legs are killing you. You can't breathe. Your stomachs up to your head. The last time I ran it, I've seen double for a short period of time.
But the whole essence of ultra running is that we press on and you're really racing yourself. Every ultra runner I know, if they cross the line, and they thought they had cheated, they would say I did not complete the course.
Very honorable sport. What she did doesn't look honorable at all.
SANCHEZ: Well, Tom, if you ever change your mind, and you want me to pass by in a vesper something, I'll just honk and hop on the back there.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Tom Foreman, thank you so much.
SCIUTTO: The thing is, Tom can actually run a one minute, 40 miles. J
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: He's the only guy who can pull that off.
SANCHEZ: -- to the front of a train.
SCIUTTO: I've seen him do it.
(LAUGHTER)
SCIUTTO: All right, well, SpaceX is calling it -- and I'm quoting here -- "a rapid, unplanned disassembly." That's one way to describe it. How the most powerful rocket ever built actually blew up midflight, next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
