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Jury Selection Begins In Pittsburgh Synagogue Shooting Trial; U.S. Evacuates All Diplomats As Clashes Intensify In Sudan; Tucker Carlson Out At Fox News. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 24, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: At this hour, jury selection is happening in the trial of the man accused of carrying out the deadliest anti- Semitic attack in U.S. history. The horrible mass shooting at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh in 2018. 11 people were killed from three different Jewish congregations that day.

CNN's Danny Freeman is in Pittsburgh. He's following this for us. Danny, what's been happening in court so far?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, court kicked off earlier this morning just before 9:00 a.m. And already, we've only been through a couple of jurors so far. Both sides of attorneys have been questioning these jurors. But I can tell you that already, we're going to see that this is going to be an emotional trial.

One of the jurors, in fact, teared up when just pose the question, do you think you could impose the death penalty in this case? And that potential jury said -- again, started to be filled with tears just because she said this was a place of worship and should have been a safe space.

But let me bring you to how we got to this point to begin with. Of course, we're talking about October 27, 2018, four and a half years ago now. That's when prosecutors say that Robert Bowers arrived at the Tree of Life synagogue with multiple guns. Members I just said of three different Jewish congregations were there at that time.

And at that point, prosecutors say that Bowers came in and started firing outside and then inside the synagogue indiscriminately, and also saying things, according to the criminal complaint, that he wanted to kill Jews. And prosecutors later found that there were actually social media postings that were anti-Semitic as well.

So that leads us to today. Now, we have 63 felony counts here, 22 of which do carry that death penalty charge. And prosecutors have been pursuing this death penalty case.

But it's interesting, Kate, the defense team here, they've been trying to argue against that death penalty leading up to this particular moment. In fact, Clarke -- I should say Bowers has hired defense attorney Judy Clarke to be on this team. And Clarke has represented other high-profile federal death penalty defendants, including Dzhokhar Tsarnaev from the Boston Marathon bombing, the Unabomber as well.

Her defense team, in fact -- rather Bower's defense team even offered a plea deal with the possibility of having life in prison, if that meant taking the death penalty off the table. But at this point, those federal prosecutors, they have not budged. So, that's what brings us here today.

And I got to tell you. The conversation in that courtroom right now has been a lot on do you feel comfortable imposing the death penalty in this case? And that's what attorneys on both sides are asking jurors to find out because they will probably have to rule on that if they get to the sentencing part of this trial. Again, a lot of emotion here in Pittsburgh today and for likely weeks and months to come, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And bringing back so many -- so many horrible memories. Danny, thank you. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: And joining us now is Pennsylvania State Representative Daniel Frankel. He represents Squirrel Hill. That is where the deadly synagogue attack took place.

First, I want to thank you for coming on the show. These are horrible memories. I was there. I know you were there right after this happened. We're looking at a video from 2018 of the community showing up in a huge way with their candles lit. I do want to first ask you what today means for you, as it's been four and a half plus years since this attack, and now there's a trial.

DANIEL FRANKEL, DEMOCRATIC STATE REPRESENTATIVE, PENNSYLVANIA: Yes. I mean, it's a -- it's a very emotional day for me. It's an emotional day for our community. It is-- it's traumatizing to have this trial taking place, but it's necessary.

And our community is very resilient. I have a number of families, of survivors here, and the victims, and just a very, very moving day, very emotional day. But at the same time, I think we have the opportunity to do some things to help make sure that this doesn't happen again.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about that opportunity. There have been a few changes in Pennsylvania. There was an attempt to ban assault rifles.

You're trying to do some other things. You're trying to change things. Can you tell us what it is that you have brought the families together if they are with you on this and the changes you'd like to see made in your state?

FRANKEL: So, sure. You know, one of the things that we've been trying to do for years is just update Pennsylvania's hate crime statute. We believe that we need to provide our communities better tools in order to confront what has apparently become normal throughout our country is targeting people because of who they are, who they love, what they believe in.

And we are woefully short of having the tools to be able to address this. So, we want to update the current laws to provide more significant penalties, to provide a civil course of action, to educate our law enforcement folks on how to identify and prosecute hate crimes.

[11:35:09]

So, as many hate crimes, as we know, they're taking place. And there's an epidemic in our country, there's an epidemic in Pennsylvania. Our law enforcement folks don't have all the tools that they need. And we want to provide them.

And we know -- also, we want to provide our college campuses with tools because we know that our college campuses are hotbeds for hate groups. And we want to make sure that we are able to protect our young people, who are both victims and objects who have been recruited on campuses. So, this is a package of bills that I think gives our communities tools to help prevent something like what took place on 10-27-2018 not to happen again.

SIDNER: Yes. I mean, there have been so many shootings in whether it be a synagogue, whether it be a church, whether it be a school. These are sacred places --

FRANKEL: Sure.

SIDNER: -- whether places of learning or places of prayer. I do want to ask you about gun laws. I know that there hasn't been a whole lot of change, not in the country and in your state as well. Are you frustrated by this, or do you think that there is an avenue where we will see some sort of change that may make a big difference eventually?

FRANKEL: Well, obviously, you know the best way to do this was to do it at the federal government side. But we're going to -- this week here in Pennsylvania, on Wednesday, our judiciary committee is going to kick out for gun safety-related bills. This will be the first time a committee has actually brought those -- that legislation to the floor in my 25 years.

I co-chair the PA safe caucus, which has been advocating for common- sense gun laws in Pennsylvania for ever -- since Columbine. And I think we have the opportunity to have at least a discussion. These bills are going to come out of committee. We're going to be debating them on the floor. And my expectation is that the Pennsylvania House will pass them and we'll see what happens in the Senate.

But we're going to work across party lines, across the chambers to see if we can do something along these lines. So, you know that's another aspect of what's going on here. I mean, to have hate groups that have access to weapons of mass destruction, you know we've got to -- we've got to prevent that from happening. So, this is another aspect of dealing with the aftermath of not just Tree of Life but as you noted, mass shootings of vulnerable groups throughout our country.

SIDNER: Yes. FRANKEL: Whether it was Charleston, South Carolina, whether it was the Sikh temple in Wisconsin, or the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, we need to do something as elected officials. We need to stop with the normalization of hatred and violence. And we have the opportunity to do that here in Pennsylvania this week by passing hate crimes legislation and comprehensive gun safety legislation.

SIDNER: Pennsylvania State Representative Daniel Frankel, thank you so much. And please tell the families that we are thinking about them on this day. Appreciate them. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A stunning announcement in the world of media, Fox News and Tucker Carlson parting ways. Digging for details, stay with us.

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[11:42:53]

BOLDUAN: Right now, more evacuations are taking place in Sudan as tens of thousands of people are trying to escape the violence that is escalating and unfolding there. CNN's SAM Kiley, he's actually live on the tarmac in Djibouti, where some of the evacuations are taking place. And, Sam, what's happening there?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Hey, you're joining me from Djibouti International Airport, which is a civilian airport. But it also particularly in the last 24 hours has become the center of an extraordinary military operational, series of operations.

What you can see here behind me is a number of Hercules, long distance -- or transport plane, the workhorses of NATO military. Some of these Spanish just beyond them is a French airbase where they've got more of the similar aircraft. You can probably hear in the background there's one has just landed.

And just beyond, of course, the military -- or just the other side of the military aircraft, these civilian NGOs who have been based here, they're actually -- these aircraft are actually based for the humanitarian operation in Yemen. The Djiboutians are here at the center of a mass evacuation effort focused on Sudan.

In the distance and those lights there, we can't show you any more detail than that, is the American base. That has now become the hub of a Special Forces operation involving people from as far away as Japan, all the way through South Korea, India, Egypt, on into Europe, and of course, the United States.

It was the United States was in the vanguard of the effort to remove diplomats from their Embassy in Khartoum, the capital of Sudan but very close on their heels, the French forces and British forces. Indeed, the British were taken in with the Americans.

This aircraft has been used at least twice, local officials tell us, as part of a shuttle operation to go and collect, what the French are saying close to 500 people that they've managed to evacuate not just diplomats.

It is the United States -- the United Kingdom had been quite bitterly criticized by their citizens for only evacuating or principally evacuating diplomats from their embassies, whereas the French had been operational for longer. They were saying they probably got one more flight left in their cycle.

[11:45:11]

But just beyond the French aircraft, that Ethiopian airliner landed in the last half hour. Now, officials here, this is -- saying this is only got one airstrip, this airport. They are running the entire operation, all of the air traffic control. They're insisting as a sovereign Djiboutian operation. They're doing it in cooperation with the foreign military authorities.

But when they're Djiboutian in airspace and that includes aircraft diverted from Sudanese airspace going around Sudan into this airspace, that also falls under Djibouti. So, this place has become an extraordinary hub of activity. And likely that activity is going to increase because, of course, you've got 16,000 Americans or so.

Some of them, dual nationals are still in Sudan. You've got people from all over the world still stuck in Sudan, many thousands of foreign nationals. Some are being evacuated overland, but the safest route out because of the size -- its sheer size of Sudan is by air if they can be safely got to a mustering point, particularly in the capital Khartoum.

But the problem is that the fighting is in pockets all over the capital. There are airstrikes being conducted regularly in Khartoum. And that means that even when you get these aircraft into the air when you do manage to get them into Sudanese airspace, imagine this aircraft is going to have to fly through airspace that is being used simultaneously by Sudanese government bombers to attack rebel general positions inside the Sudanese capital. It is that kind of complication that makes this such a dangerous operation.

But here, we have another -- I think this is a C-17 coming in. I'm not quite sure if that's taking off or landing. I think it's just arrived. These are the long-distance workhorses very much the center of the International Special Forces operation here out of Djibouti International Airport. Back to you.

BOLDUAN: Amazing to have that look on the ground. Sam Kiley there in Djibouti for us. Thank you, Sam.

SIDNER: All right. This just in to CNN. Tucker Carlson is out at Fox News. The right-wing network just announced the two have parted ways. CNN's Senior Media Reporter Oliver Darcy is here with more on this. What are you learning? He was out on Friday. Will we see him say goodbye?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER (on camera): We're not going to see him say goodbye. This is really stunning news coming from Fox. They say his last show was April 21. They put out a very short statement. They said they thank him for his service. And that's it. That's all we know right now.

But, of course, this comes days after last week. You remember, Fox News settled this massive defamation lawsuit with Dominion Voting Systems over the election lies that it promoted in the wake of the 2020 election. So, they paid out $787 million, the highest known defamation settlement ever -- publicly known in U.S. media. So, this is coming days after that. Unclear, of course, whether this is related.

BOLDUAN: Right.

DARCY: It's kind of hard to imagine that these -- coincidentally, these things happened. Tucker Carlson was sowing doubts about the U.S. election results just up until the last few weeks, so it's possible that there was a relationship there. But really big news. And I should also point out that they've stuck with them really through quite a lot.

SIDNER: Yes.

DARCY: Like he has promoted conspiracy theories about the vaccines.

SIDNER: Yes.

DARCY: He has said things that are just blatantly anti-immigrant. He has, like I said, promoted doubts about the 2020 election. They have stuck with him throughout all of this. So, you know, really shocking news that now he's no longer with the network.

BERMAN: Yes. The big question, as you say is why now? Fox has let their number one people go before.

DARCY: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean, Bill O'Reilly.

SIDNER: Bill O'Reilly.

BERMAN: They pushed that when he was number one. They're doing this now with Tucker Carlson. We talked about this happening in the wake of the Dominion decision.

Now, it's interesting with Carlson, which is that it wasn't his show or his shows that Dominion was suing over unnecessarily for promoting false news, it was some of his behind-the-scenes stuff that was legally problematic for Fox. But he wasn't one of the people who helped get them in trouble with Dominion. Was he?

DARCY: No, he wasn't the main culprit that really spawned this lawsuit. But you know, it's not to say also that other hosts could not be eventually leaving the network as well. I mean, this raises a lot of questions about whether the network potentially is trying to at least rein in some of the more extreme people on the channel. I mean, of course, Tucker Carlson, the most extreme probably on that channel. I should also note, John, why this is so important. I mean, Tucker Carlson outside Donald Trump really was the person commanding the GOP, really directing it. You saw Republican lawmakers -- prominent Republican lawmakers often grovel at his feet.

BERMAN: Ted Cruz.

DARCY: Ted Cruz, for instance, grovel at his feet and others because they were afraid of him going on his primetime show and lashing out at them. So, this is not only huge news in the world of media, but also in the world of politics where he was really pushing the GOP in that extremist direction.

[11:50:15]

BOLDUAN: And it's also -- just to that point, that's also -- his show was also a place that a lot of Republican lawmakers or anyone who wanted to speak to Donald Trump would go in order to send their message because they knew that Donald Trump would be watching and so closely tracking that show in and of itself. Do we know where he wasn't as a contractor? They're going to be able to say that this was, you know, end of his contract. They just wanted to try something different.

DARCY: I'm not sure.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

DARCY: I mean I have been reaching out. I have also reached out to Tucker Carlson and everyone is trying to get more information on this. But this is a very short statement. Also, notably --

BOLDUAN: It is.

DARCY: -- there's no statement from Tucker Carlson in here. You know, it doesn't seem, fair to guess, that they parted ways amicably.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

DARCY: We'll be obviously looking for more information in the hours ahead.

SIDNER: I think the other question here is, it's not just about this defamation case that has already been settled. There's more to come. There's more legal action, Smartmatic, and others. And it does make you wonder if this has something to do with that because it is so abrupt, and it doesn't seem amicable at this point, not with that statement.

DARCY: That's right. There's a lot more legal action on the way for Fox News. They have the Smartmatic lawsuit, which is a $2.7 billion lawsuit. That's also making its way through the courts. And that hasn't been resolved yet.

SIDNER: Right. DARCY: So, it's potentially possible that you know, Fox News just had enough. It -- they may have needed a scapegoat. Someone should just kind of throw and say, look, we got rid of this guy. I mean, because they do have some other problems with shareholders probably upset that they had these election deniers go on air and knowingly spread falsehoods. So, you know, there's a lot of things at play --

BOLDUAN: I mean there was so much -- you know --

DARCY: Yes

BOLDUAN: There -- that was happening for so long --

SIDNER: A long time.

DARCY: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- before we got to this point, right?

DARCY: Yes. But now, they've had to pay $787 million.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

DARCY: And they have shareholders who are not happy about that. I mean, that's a lot of money.

BERMAN: We'll see. Look, it's hard to imagine Fox all of a sudden just changing the way it does business completely. They've had to -- do payouts before. Let me just read this statement because it is so short.

DARCY: Yes.

BERMAN: It says Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to part ways. We thank him for his service to the network as a host and prior to that as a contributor. Mr. Carlson's last program was Friday, April 21.

That's really incredible in its brevity there. As for Tucker Carlson, this may sound outlandish to some, but there are people who suggested that maybe he would become a Republican candidate himself.

DARCY: And that's because of the firm grip he has exerted over the GOP in the last few years. I mean, he -- I should say that he's the top- rated host, not only on Fox but really all of cable. I mean, he was commanding a huge audience -- a huge audience.

And he was very influential over that audience. It was a very loyal audience. They tune in. If you look at the ratings, that ratings would spike on Fox News, specifically for Tucker Carlson.

And so yes, he has a huge sway over GOP primary voters. I think that's why those questions were raised, whether he would potentially run for president one day. You know, doesn't seem like that's probably why he's leaving, given the statement and the way this ended here, but --

BERMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: No one -- you do -- no one -- we did -- we've decided to part ways is not a way you send off your top-rated --

BERMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Top-rated anybody on any show for any reason.

DARCY: Yes.

BOLDUAN: You don't cast them aside or part ways with them, unless something is wrong. I mean, he was on the list for possible witnesses when it came to -- for the -- for the Dominion voting trial.

DARCY: He was supposed to be one of the -- one of the first witnesses that they call to the stand. And, of course, that got averted when they -- when they had that settlement.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

DARCY: But we should also point out too, he is so extreme. I mean, the things that he was doing on his program make Sean Hannity look like a moderate. I mean, it started off more as he was a mainstream conservative figure, but he has really been radicalized in recent years. And he's also radicalized his audience.

I mean, the things that were promoted on his show used to be what you would see on Infowars, which is that far-right company hosted and founded by Alex Jones, who was also facing over a billion dollars in legal problems. But it was being mainstream to the Fox News audience, which is obviously very dangerous.

And so it's potentially possible that Fox thinks they can get away with someone more like Sean Hannity who promotes a lot of conspiracy theories himself, but is a little bit more mainstream, not as radical as Tucker.

SIDNER: But they've been letting this go on for years. This is not like new.

DARCY: Yes.

SIDNER: So, it's interesting the timing of all this. We'll have to wait and see what he says. I'm sure there will be something coming out from his side of things.

BOLDUAN: Well, that's actually one -- that's kind of an interesting question, though. Because what we do know when it comes to Fox and when they part ways with someone, they're -- they just asked Gretchen Carlson.

SIDNER: Yes.

BERMAN: NDA.

BOLDUAN: NDAs. BERMAN: Non-disclosure agreement there.

DARCY: And he -- also, the interesting thing too is, is he free to jump to another network if that's what something he wants to do? Newsmax -- if he jumped to Newsmax, which is that smaller right-wing channel that Fox News was really worried about?

SIDNER: Worried

DARCY: In the wake of the 2020 election.

[11:55:02]

His audience, I'm sure would follow him over there. So, is he free to do that? Is that something he wants to do? Is it possible he wants to do something like Glenn Beck, start his own media empire on the side? There's a lot of different options for him here depending on what his contract is.

BERMAN: I will say, the legal problems for Fox are not over. They have the Smartmatic lawsuit. Smartmatic has sued Fox for more than Dominion did.

SIDNER: Yes.

BERMAN: And now you have a potential disgruntled ex-employee, Tucker Carlson, as a witness there.

DARCY: And you should -- we should say this, too. Last week after this Dominion lawsuit was settled, you saw Tucker Carlson kind of poke the eye of everyone when he went on his program and was just talking about it. Can you imagine a media company openly lying to the viewers? It seemed like a subtle reference to what Fox News was accused of and him trying to make it about the rest of the media.

BERMAN: Yes.

DARCY: So you know, he really was someone who didn't seem bound by the normal rules over at Fox. And now, his time there is coming to an end.

BERMAN: All right. Oliver Darcy, keep us posted. I imagine there will be more coming out.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: All right. Thank you all for joining us. This has been CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS," is up next.

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