Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Biden: "MAGA Extremists" Trying To Take Away Bedrock Freedoms; Shaky Ceasefire Holding Even As Some Gunfire Heard; Opening Arguments Underway In Defamation & Battery Case Against Trump; Justice Thomas Didn't Recuse Himself From Case Tied To GOP Megadonor. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 25, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:50]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Well, the stage is now set for a potential presidential rematch. President Biden has officially launched his re- election bid. He says the battle for the nation's soul, as he's described it, is not over and he's ready to take on so-called MAGA extremists.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And a new threat in war-torn Sudan, one of the warring factions seizing a laboratory in Khartoum. Samples of polio, measles and cholera potentially exposed. And if electricity isn't restored soon, officials are warning a "germ bomb" could be released on the already devastated capital city.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And parts of the Midwest could see the worst flooding in 20 years here in coming days. Earlier than expected snow melt is pushing the Mississippi River closer to cresting in parts of Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin. What this means for some of the major crops that Americans depend on from those areas? We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: Four years to the day after he launched his 2020 presidential campaign, President Biden announced his bid for 2024.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Four more years. Four more years. Four more years. Four more years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: His re-election message got a warm reception at his first public appearance today before the National Association of Building Trade Unions. He repeated the message in his campaign launch warning that the opposition is going after "bedrock freedoms."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Four more years. Four more years. JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The threat the MAGA Republicans pose is to take us to a place we've never been, and where the last guy tried to take us. And look how hard we had to fight to prevail and get prevailing wage: Butch Lewis, Davis-Bacon, Project Labor Agreement, health care (inaudible), my god, we had a fight like hell.

SCIUTTO: Let's discuss now with CNN's Dana Bash who, of course, co- anchors STATE OF THE UNION, Sunday mornings.

Dana, he did this by video. What struck me is that you kind of have two messages here. One, obviously he wants to run on his accomplishments during his first term, legislation, et cetera, including on environmental legislation. But he's also repeating part of that message, the cause from 2020, which is that we're fighting for the nation's soul against, well, Trump and MAGA Republican extremists.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR, STATE OF THE UNION: He's going to the fundamentals that spurred him into office. It was a lot easier for him to make that argument when he was actually definitely running against Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: If the election were taken today, the primary election, it looks like if the polls are right, big if, that would happen. But we're very early in the Republican nominating process.

SCIUTTO: Mm-hm.

BASH: Still, I did think that what you just mentioned, those were very interesting points about his video. The other was, he has spent the last several years, his presidency up until now, trying to make the case for government working for you ...

SCIUTTO: Right.

BASH: ... for the American people.

SCIUTTO: Mm-hm.

BASH: And that is kind of a cornerstone of the Democratic Party. But the thrust of - at least the beginning of his video was, I want to keep your freedoms. And it was almost taking the conservative ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: ... more libertarian mantra and trying to claim it or re-claim it.

SCIUTTO: It's a really - it's a point because it struck me, too. I was like, wait a second, what's that message?

BASH: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: That's a message I'm used to hearing from DeSantis and Trump. BASH: Exactly.

SCIUTTO: But he connected it, for instance, crucially to women's reproductive rights, for instance.

BASH: Mm-hm. Women's reproduction - reproductive rights, what you can read ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: ... the books that you're ...

SCIUTTO: Book banning, yup.

BASH: ... book banning, particularly for students, talking about LGBTQ rights, things along those lines.

[15:05:00]

And yes, sort of the content and the substance of each of those ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: ... veered towards the Democratic philosophy. But the notion of how those rights should be out there for people, it is more - if you say like live and let live, that is a lot of what ...

SCIUTTO: It's ...

BASH: ... Republicans in theory ...

SCIUTTO: For sure.

BASH: ... believe.

SCIUTTO: And we'll see how it plays out. It is - it does strike me that it wasn't long ago before the midterm elections, where there was this building mostly in private, deep skepticism and beyond skepticism ...

BASH: Mm-hm.

SCIUTTO: ... about his - him running again. More of like, well, eventually he's going to come around to the idea that really he's too old for this, that kind of thing. That changed, of course ...

BASH: Mm-hm.

SCIUTTO: ... dramatically, you might say, because the party seems to be together behind him now.

BASH: They don't have (inaudible) ...

SCIUTTO: Not voters, by the way, I'm talking about ...

BASH: Yes. SCIUTTO: ... because that's not clear, but party leaders, other candidates who might have challenged him otherwise.

BASH: Absolutely. Yes. I mean, you had Ro Khanna on earlier.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: He was a very big Bernie Sanders supporter ...

SCIUTTO: Mm-hm.

BASH: ... four years ago during the Democratic primary process. And people who you might think would sort of even quietly consider or explore challenging him never got there at all, didn't even take those steps because he is an incumbent president and because they realize that it tends to divide the party.

It has happened before.

SCIUTTO: Mm-hm.

BASH: Ted Kennedy against Jimmy Carter ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: There have been other instances. But in this case, because they all feel that the record that he has is very good to run on, then they're just going to have to talk around or talk up, address somehow the issue that is giving voters pause, even Democratic voters ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: ... which is something he can't change, which is his age.

SCIUTTO: And let's, by the way, note the contrast with Republican Party, granted, as you say it's early, but ...

BASH: Mm-hm.

SCIUTTO: ... Trump is leading and his own vice president is running against him if you compare the ...

BASH: Mm-hm.

SCIUTTO: ... the relative unity between the two at this point. At this point.

BASH: Almost.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: Almost running.

SCIUTTO: Exactly. Well, the betting ...

BASH: Yes. SCIUTTO: ... I suppose. Dana Bash, thanks so much as always.

BASH: Thanks, Jim. Good to be here.

SCIUTTO: We're going to be talking about this, I think, more than once coming up.

BASH: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Brianna.

KEILAR: The Republican Party has officially responded to Biden's campaign announcement, sort of. The RNC has already released an attack ad slamming the idea of four more years of Biden. But the catch, the video, which you see here was generated by artificial intelligence. That's right. Even political spin doctors now have to worry about bots taking their jobs.

So let's discuss with the host of CNN's NIGHTCAP, Jon Sarlin.

Okay. Jon, for all of the hype about this being AI, do you really see something that different from a typical attack ad?

JON SARLIN, CNN HOST, NIGHTCAP: Well, as long as there have been photos and videos, campaigns have been using deceptive photos and videos. What's different here is that it's AI. This technology that is rapidly improving and is encroaching a point where images generated using AI are becoming increasingly difficult to discern from real images.

So the RNC put this ad out on the heels of Joe Biden's re-election announcement and it paints a dystopian world if you were to be reelected.

KEILAR: And let (inaudible) ...

(Begin VT)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This morning, an emboldened China invades Taiwan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Financial markets are in freefall as 500 regional banks have shuttered their doors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Border agents were overrun by a surge of 80,000 illegals yesterday evening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officials closed the city of San Francisco this morning, citing the escalating crime and fentanyl crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SARLIN: So those images were generated with AI. They're completely fake images. And yes, the RNC could have used Photoshop, it could have used other photos, but it used this A.I. technology that is now spreading images that are close to real. And so right now, this is the beginning of A.I. being used in political campaigns. KEILAR: Is there anything governing the use of this?

SARLIN: So election officials I talked to said pretty much not. Political campaigns are allowed to lie. That is protected speech. They can be held responsible for libel, but that's a really high bar.

So when you start to think about what these A.I. technologies mean in the hands of people with a political agenda, it means two things, to quote Steve Bannon, you can flood the zone with BS, right? Fake images can spread rapidly, which has the inverse effect of degrading real images and real audio, which now have to compete with those fake images and can be dismissed as fakes themselves.

So look, this RNC ad said it was A.I. generated. The question though is, will the next one.

KEILAR: Yes. Will the next one and the next one, no doubt. Jon Sarlin, thank you. Boris?

SANCHEZ: In Sudan right now, a three-day ceasefire is shaky. There have been reports of gunfire and fighter jets have been seen around the capital of Khartoum. Each side says the other is to blame for breaking the truce.

[15:10:02]

At least 460 people have been killed in clashes and thousands have been injured. As demonstrators take to the streets to protest the violence, some Sudanese say that desperation is starting to set in as food and fresh water are running out. We're also seeing pictures of rescued U.S. diplomatic staff arriving at the U.S. base in Djibouti.

That's where we'll find CNN's Sam Kiley who's live for us.

Sam, the U.S. is sending two warships to Port Sudan. What can you tell us about that? What is their mission?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, their mission is a contingency, really, Boris. They, in combination with a large amount of air assets, drones and the like, that the Americans have put up in order to maintain an understanding of what's happening on the ground may be used going forward as part of a ground move, potentially, if there is a lot of pressure from American citizens in particular to get out of the country, they could be guided to safety, potentially to Port Sudan.

Now, Port Sudan is a location that's already being used for significant evacuations. A French frigate docked there today with the aim of taking out 500, an Egyptian ship left there yesterday with several hundred on board, so it does function.

Those French warship is taking out 500 people that did participate in a convoy organized by the United Nations from Khartoum to Port Sudan. The problem is that in the view of the Americans, the situation on the ground means that their advice to American citizens is to hide in place. In contrast, for example, to the British, who think that the - there might be a slight reduction in the violence, which could potentially allow what is planned to be two rotations of aircraft going into Omdurman, Khartoum's twin city to its west, to try to bring out British citizens. But that's a military airlift. You can't lift out the numbers that really may have to be rescued if this ceasefire breaks down, Boris.

SANCHEZ: And it likely will. As we've seen, none of them have held thus far.

Sam Kiley from Djibouti, thank you so much.

We want to go now to CNN Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen because - Elizabeth, besides everything that Sam just reported, a high ranking medical source now tells CNN that the RSF paramilitary group has taken over this public health lab in Khartoum and they're warning about the possibility of a "germ bomb." What do you make of all of this?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think there are a lot of ifs here. So what this source is saying is that this paramilitary group is in the lab. The lab, like all public health labs, around the world, many public health labs keep specimens of various germs.

So we are told that this one could have cholera, polio, measles. It is obviously not good if this has happened. But I want to put this into perspective. There is quite a bit of measles and cholera out there already in the world. In other words, these three things are not new. It's not like those three things would be unleashed into the world for the first time. There's also actually a fair amount of polio as well.

In the highly vaccinated countries, the vast majority of people are vaccinated against those. The real risk if - and again, I'm using the word if here - if something bad were to happen on purpose or by accident, the people who would be most at risk would be people who are in that immediate area, especially since you don't always have very high vaccination rates in that area.

Let us take a look. You mentioned the germ bomb. So this is from CNN's medical source. What they say is that the danger lies in the outbreak of any armed confrontation in the laboratory, because that will turn the laboratory into a germ bomb. An urgent and rapid international intervention is required to restore electricity and secure the laboratory from any armed confrontation because we are facing a real biological danger.

Now, again, we don't know really how much danger this presents. That remains to be seen, because there are so many ifs here. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that eye-opening report. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Coming up, new updates on that close friend of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, the one who paid for lavish trips to justice for ...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:58]

KEILAR: Opening arguments are now underway in the battery and defamation lawsuit brought by E. Jean Carroll against Donald Trump. It took a judge just two hours to pick a jury today. Carroll arriving at the federal courthouse in New York this morning, she was hugged by supporters before she entered the courtroom.

Carroll is alleging that Trump raped her in a New York department store dressing room in the 1990s and that he defamed her when he repeatedly denied her claims. Trump denies that this ever happened. He has said that Carroll is quote "not my type."

We have CNN Legal Analyst, Laura Coates joining us now. She is a former federal prosecutor. This is a really interesting case because so much time has passed. How tough is it to win a case like this after so much time?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, remember, this is a case that was kind of revived with the New York legislation that said cases that are way past that limitations period can still now bring some sort of suit. This is based on battery and defamation.

[15:20:00]

But defamation cases notoriously are difficult because you have to prove that there was some reason that you know the person was lying or they had some knowledge of the truth and acted against it.

Now, if you're actually the person who is alleged to have engaged in this behavior, she alleges rape, the defamation is a little bit easier to prove if you can show that maybe you told someone close in time, which is one reason it's so interesting, Brianna, the people who will testify in this trial, which by the way might not be Trump, will include two women who she told contemporaneously allegedly what happened.

That's very important, because with all the time that went by, you're going to have to corroborate and credit her statements by showing that somehow, it has been the precise story that was told all those years ago and now.

KEILAR: So what is at stake for Trump? Because we've heard her allegations, right?

COATES: Mm-hm.

KEILAR: She's written a book. We've heard them. What else is at stake for Trump here?

COATES: Well, first of all, we're about a block away from where he was arraigned not too many weeks ago now in a case not like this one, but on a case that is very consequential as well. So the idea here that what's at stake is just the culmination of other cases.

However, this is a civil prosecution. He need not even appear. That might surprise some people. You don't have to actually show up, but he has shown up for a deposition. And those statements he said then could ultimately come in.

And if you're E. Jean Carroll's attorneys, knowing, number one, perhaps the unpredictability of a current in-person testimony and a witness, you want to rely on what's already down in black and white on those pieces of paper through a transcript.

So him not testifying might ultimately inert of the benefit of E. Jean Carroll, but then again, the amount of time that has elapsed. Some of the jurors who were voir dired they were asked the question about how they (inaudible) the Me Too movement more broadly. And some who said they had very strong emotions regarding it were even dismissed.

So this is going to be on the backdrop, the big elephant in the room, the time that has passed, the Me Too movement, the politics of all of this and, of course, E. Jean Carroll and Trump himself.

KEILAR: And real quick, what circumstances would you maybe see Trump testify under?

COATES: Well, they'll have an opportunity to call him as a defense witness if he ultimately would like to, which means they have to have - they get the whole benefit of the entire plaintiff's case. It's not the government, it's an individual.

So if something comes in, where they feel that it is consequential to actually have him say something to clarify, and not expose the Pandora's Box, he might do so. But again, this is civil, he hasn't faced a criminal penalty. We're talking about money.

KEILAR: Money. It's important.

COATES: Money, money, money.

KEILAR: Very important to Trump, though.

COATES: We'll see.

KEILAR: All right. Laura, thank you so much.

COATES: Thank you.

KEILAR: Jim?

SCIUTTO: All right. More about money. We have new developments in a story we first brought you earlier this month involving Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and a GOP mega donor who paid for lavish trips and stays for Justice Thomas and his wife.

The justice never disclosed those gifts. And today, we learned that a company tied to the same donor did in fact have a case before the Supreme Court. Justice Thomas, crucially, did not recuse himself from that case before the court.

CNN's Supreme Court justice reporter - Supreme Court Reporter, Ariane de Vogue joins me now.

Ariane, you're not a justice quite yet ...

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN U.S. SUPREME COURT REPORTER: No, not yet.

SCIUTTO: ... but I'm sure sometime you will be.

I mean, this is key here, right? Because the revelations were enough getting all these gifts, and we're talking about a whole lot of money in terms of value. But now there was a case before the court and he didn't recuse himself. What are the consequences?

DE VOGUE: Right. So this all dates back to that ProPublica story, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

DE VOGUE: This mega GOP donor, Harlan Crow. I gave these lavish gifts, this travel to Justice Clarence Thomas. Clarence Thomas didn't disclose it. And at the time, you and I talked about it ...

SCIUTTO: Right.

DE VOGUE: ... he issued a statement, right? And in the statement, he basically said, look, that he - well, here it is: "Early in my tenure at the Court, I sought guidance from my colleagues and others in the judiciary."

And he basically made the point that he was advised that this sort of personal hospitality from a close personal friend who did not have business before the court was not reportable. That's the key point.

SCIUTTO: That's notable.

DE VOGUE: That did not have business before the court, because now we learned that, in fact, a company with close links to Crow did have business ...

SCIUTTO: What was the case?

DE VOGUE: ... before the court.

So it wasn't a big case. It was a firm that was trying to sue this company. It wanted to go to the Supreme Court, it wanted the Supreme Court ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

DE VOGUE: ... to take up the appeal. The Supreme Court didn't take up the appeal. But you didn't see any notification that he, Thomas, had recused himself ...

SCIUTTO: Right. DE VOGUE: ... in any way.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you a question, because his - part of his defense at the time was that the rules changed, that the - and this is true, they've become stricter ...

DE VOGUE: Right.

SCIUTTO: ... since this happened, since those first trips took place in terms of reporting. But I don't think - or tell me did recusal rules change during that time period or have they always been the same?

[15:25:00]

DE VOGUE: Well, that's the thing and it brings us to the bigger question here and that is that the Supreme Court does not have an ethics code that is directed - directly at the justices, right? And that's what this story today brings up.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

DE VOGUE: The relationship between the two men and this larger question about ethics before the court.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Other lower court judges do, Supreme Court does not ...

DE VOGUE: Yes.

SCIUTTO: ... but, boy, there are a lot of questions around it.

Ariane de Vogue, thanks so much for staying on top of it.

DE VOGUE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Boris?

SANCHEZ: Spring snowmelt prompting major flooding along the Mississippi river. Highways are closed and the worst is yet to come.

Plus, climate change leading to unprecedented heat. It's putting more countries at risk especially ones that aren't used to temperature extremes. We have details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)