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House GOP Expect to Pass Debt Limit Bill while Biden Vows a Veto; E. Jean Carroll Rape Trial Testimony Begins; Taliban Kills Mastermind behind Kabul Airport Attack; Race to Free Sudan amid Fragile Cease-Fire. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 26, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Republicans think they have the votes. House Republican leaders feeling more confident now than they did when they woke up this morning over the $1 trillion spending cut bill, so confident they still might hold votes today.

But since the president threatened to veto it, what does this really mean?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): A huge day in court. E. Jean Carroll takes the stand in her sexual battery case against the former president. The new warning that the judge issued just moments ago.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And a race to get four Mississippi jail escapees back in custody. One of the men is now accused of killing someone after he broke out of jail. We are following these major developing stories and all coming in to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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BOLDUAN: Let's begin on Capitol Hill, where there has been a shift this morning, it seems. House Republican leaders are now confident that they have the votes to pass speaker McCarthy's $1.5 trillion debt ceiling bill.

And while there were big questions and probably still are, they could still vote today.

Do you hear all of the caveats I'm throwing into this?

What did Kevin McCarthy have to give in on to lock in all of this?

Manu, what is the very latest you're hearing about this?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is confidence after months of negotiations that this bill will pass the House as soon as today. It will require 218 votes in the Republican-controlled House; 222 Republican seats. And that means he can only lose four Republican votes because all of

the Democrats are expected to vote against it. The White House and Democrats say the debt ceiling should be raised without limit or spending cuts. Avoid the first ever default in the country's history.

That is an approach that has been rejected by speaker McCarthy who's trying to demonstrate they can spend a bill with spending cuts. It's been an arduous task but ultimately, they believe they've gotten there.

That's because overnight last-minute concessions were made to appease members of the Iowa delegation concerning the proposal to pull back the ethanol tax breaks. They've added that back in.

And members on the far right have been concerned about new work requirements and they pushed to get those proposed work requirements for Medicaid to be implemented sooner. As a result, now leaders are confident they can limit defections.

But that doesn't mean all Republicans are united. Some this morning are still raising concerns.

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RAJU: These last-minute changes didn't win you over?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. No. I'm still leaning no on the bill. We cannot continue doing what we've always done. And if you look at this plan and what it does with the debt over the next 10 years, it does not reduce it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without any objection, you know, I -- we had a meeting and then you all were all waiting for me after the meeting. And then they didn't -- they didn't show and ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now what's going to happen if they don't do it?

Let them shut the government down. Let the Senate shut the government down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So that last comment came from Ralph Norman, who is a member of the House Freedom Caucus and was initially skeptical about this plan and now plans to support it but he also said he would not support a bill that would come back from the Senate that doesn't go as far as the Republicans have laid out in terms of spending cuts.

And therein lies the Senate going forward because, even if the Senate would agree with the House Republicans or the White House, then they need to win over enough members to get this through the House by early June.

But the negotiations aren't even happening at this point. And the White House said no negotiations; raise the debt limit. House Republicans rejecting that approach. And the default looms as soon as June.

BOLDUAN: Something's going to give and let's see if this is part of the process to kick off the negotiations. Great reporting, Manu.

And Arlette Saenz is standing by for us on a very big day.

Arlette, the president has already promised he would veto this bill if it would make it to his desk.

What does this vote, this bill, this moment, what does it mean for the actual negotiation that, at some place would need to take place over raising the debt ceiling?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For the time being, it does not appear there's been movement in the White House's position regarding the bill that Kevin McCarthy is expected to bring up for a vote. And in fact, they've been blasting the overnight deal that was struck regarding this bill.

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SAENZ: The White House communications director releasing a statement a short time ago, saying that McCarthy struck a deal with, quote, "the most extreme MAGA elements of the Republican Party."

The White House has pointed out some of the cuts they plan to make, including the food assistance program and other health care initiatives for Americans, comes at a time when President Biden has not shown any sign of backing down, of trying to have a clean debt limit increase.

This is something that the White House has been telegraphing for months now. The OMB director Shalanda Young says Republicans should stop engaging in political games and ensure they take default off the table.

For the time being, the president has said he would veto this bill if it would pass the House. And it does not appear there's any imminent movement when it comes to negotiations between the White House and Republicans.

BOLDUAN: Arlette, thank you so much -- John.

BERMAN: So this morning E. Jean Carroll arrived at a downtown Manhattan court for the second day of her civil battery and defamation trial. This against Donald Trump. The former magazine columnist is expected to testify this afternoon or sooner at this point.

During fiery opening statements, Carroll's attorney said he will call witnesses to show the former president's, quote, "clear pattern of violent behavior." Trump's attorney fired back and questioned the plausibility of Carroll's allegations.

Carroll claimed Trump raped her in a New York City apartment store dressing room in the 1990s and defamed her when he repeatedly denied her claims. Kara Scannell is outside the courthouse. She will be testifying soon but I also heard there was a new warning

from the judge?

What's going on there?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Right when we got into court, it started at 10:00 am, Carroll's attorneys showed the judge a post the former president put on Truth Social. He called this trial a hoax. It's one of the phrases that Carroll's attorneys have said was defamatory.

And he said Carroll's attorney was a political operative and that was something the judge had warned them that was one area that could not to go to before the jury.

Trump's attorney was back on his heels. He said he had no idea about the post and he told the judge he would talk to his client today. The judge had warned everyone yesterday to stay away from talking about this case in a public way that could be viewed in any way to try to influence the jury.

And the judge telling Trump's attorney that this comment is getting into an area in which the client may or may not be tampering with a new source, a potential liability and I think you know what I mean.

Then Carroll called the first witness, the store manager at Bergdorf Goodman back in 1996. They are setting the scene, describing the lingerie department on the sixth floor, the dressing rooms, saying the doors automatically lock and two people could fit there.

This witness testifying they did staff the floor on Thursday nights when the alleged assault took place and there were times when people were not on the floor. That's an allegation Carroll has made, that this was an empty floor and that, when she was attacked, there was no one there working at the time.

That's when the issues of, could someone else corroborate that this had happened?

The defense is already on cross-examination of this witness. We do expect Carroll to be the next witness. So she could be on the stand momentarily.

And this will be the main witness for Carroll's team and also the main witness for the defense, because Trump's attorney has said he is going to put a lot of their energy into going against Carroll's witnesses and bringing their defense case by poking holes in their testimony.

And they've already said they believe Carroll made this story up and that she was motivated by political and financial means. We do expect her to take the stand soon. The former president is unlikely to appear although his attorney has not said definitively. But the judge said he wants an answer on that this week.

BERMAN: E. Jean Carroll, the next witness there, dramatic moments happening very soon where you are, Kara Scannell, please keep us posted. Thank you -- Sara.

SIDNER: Joining us is legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Jennifer Rodgers.

Jennifer, I want to start with what Kara Scannell just reported, that the judge spoke to the attorney of Donald Trump and said there is a new source of potential liability here, "you know what I mean?"

Is he talking about contempt of court or what is he saying here or is he saying, hey, this is new evidence that E. Jean Carroll can bring up?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think he's talking about maybe a gag order on the former president, a formal gag order or contempt of court. He can fine Trump for making these comments that are intended to influence the jury. So we'll see what he does.

SIDNER: It's curious, in this case. You don't see a lot of cases where the person being sued does not show up.

Is that really going to hurt Donald Trump in this case?

Because the jury is going to see her on the stand. They are not likely to see him at this point.

RODGERS: I think it probably does hurt him.

They jurors are thinking this is time out of their lives and he doesn't even care enough to show up.

What gives?

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RODGERS: So I think it will probably hurt him. On the flip side of that, he would be there making facial expressions, maybe making outbursts, probably doing things that would hurt him even more. So hard to say on balance what the jury would say.

SIDNER: It sounds like in this particular case, because he is not there, that the advantage goes to those who show up.

RODGERS: I think he can't put in clips of his deposition testimony in lieu of live testimony. But E. Jean Carroll's attorneys can. He can't do the same. So she gets to tell her side and he can't tell his side.

SIDNER: Because they can't cross examine a videotape and have no way to sort of ask questions.

RODGERS: Exactly. If he wants to testify, either live or by putting in some testimony, they have to be able to cross it, so that's why he can't get a story out.

SIDNER: In this case, he is a former presidents and jury has been picked by obviously both sides of this. But he is a former president. Do you think there will be leeway in the mind of the jury to say, oh,

he's the former president and this case is a civil case and to maybe look at that and give him some credit?

RODGERS: It's impossible to say, of course, what's in the jurors' minds. He is a larger than life figure. And every single prospective juror knows who he is, has thoughts about him. So it is hard to say what they'll do.

This happened long before he was president and I think E. Jean Carroll's lawyers will be careful to frame it within that time of who he was then, how he was known then and stay away from this looming president figure.

SIDNER: They've been able to get some key testimony and key evidence into this case that we have all seen ourselves -- that tape where he talks about grabbing women in their private parts. Thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate your analysis.

RODGERS: Thanks, Sara.

BERMAN: According to the White House, the Taliban has killed the ISIS-K leader that they say was the mastermind of the suicide bombing of the Kabul airport in 2021. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby joins us ahead.

And a manhunt underway for four detainees, who broke out of a Mississippi jail through the roof.

And Putin critic Alexei Navalny is back in solitary confinement after appearing in court this morning, facing new charges.

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BERMAN: On the radar this morning, Jack Smith, the special counsel investigating the January 6th insurrection, has expressed interest in obtaining some 90 audiotapes recorded by former FOX News producer, Abby Grossberg. That's according to her attorney.

He says those tapes include audio of FOX host Maria Bartiromo discussing 2020 election conspiracy theories with Trump lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Sydney Powell. Grossberg is now suing FOX.

Missouri could soon be the first state to pass legislation restricting gender-affirming care for minors and adults. A new rule, set to take effect tomorrow, would make it more difficult for a person of any age to get transgender medical help.

Advocacy groups have sued to try to stop the rule from going into effect. In Florida, a crime officials are calling demonic. Police say a

paroled gang member killed a 59-year-old Uber Eats driver who was making his final delivery of the day. Randall Cooke was last seen walking up to the suspect's house to drop off the order. Police later found his remains stuffed inside trash bags outside that same home -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Some big news announced by the Biden administration today. The Taliban has killed an ISIS-K leader. According to Biden administration officials, that leader is the same person who planned the deadly attack on American troops and Afghan civilians at the Kabul airport.

Thirteen American service members and over 170 Afghans were killed in the bombing in 2021. Joining me now from the White House is John Kirby, the coordinator for strategic communications for the National Security Council.

Thank you for coming on.

What more can you tell us about this?

What was this ISIS leader's name?

How was he killed?

ADM. JOHN KIRBY (RET.), COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Well, we're not at liberty to talk about his specific name necessarily, Kate. But we are confident, based on information that we've been able to glean, that this is the individual that was the mastermind of the Abbey Gate attack.

And our condolences, thoughts and prayers continue to go out to all the families of the those 13 service members as well as the family members of Afghan victims. We know the Taliban killed this individual in an operation that they were conducting on their own without any assistance certainly from the United States.

And it is important for viewers to remember that the Taliban and ISIS are mortal enemies there in Afghanistan. They continue to fight one another. As a matter of fact, this is the third senior leader that the Taliban have killed in terms of ISIS-K leadership.

BOLDUAN: John, can you talk to me about the hesitancy in releasing the leader's name?

I saw just in the beginning of April, CENTCOM in a press release very clearly named another ISIS leader that was taken out in Syria.

KIRBY: I wish I could give you more context here, Kate. We are not able to speak publicly about the name right now. There are reasons for that.

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KIRBY: But I can tell you that we are confident that this is the individual who, in fact, masterminded that attack.

BOLDUAN: John, after the Abbey Gate attack, everyone will remember President Biden's speech that night. And he vowed retribution and he said we will not forgive. We will not forget. We will hunt you down and make you pay.

The fact that the Taliban is who killed this leader, does this speak to the limits of U.S. capabilities in Afghanistan after the withdrawal?

KIRBY: No, actually, Kate, I think it validates the president's decision to leave Afghanistan altogether. You don't need to have a big presence on the ground, boots on the ground, to go after terrorist threats, whether they're in Afghanistan or elsewhere.

Look, the Taliban killed this individual. I think it's a good thing that he's gone. I think it is a great thing that he's no longer walking the Earth and can no longer conduct attacks on anyone, let alone American interests.

And it is important to remember, we killed Al Zawahiri while he was sitting on a balcony in Kabul, Afghanistan, using over the horizon capabilities. And we've taken out other ISIS leaders in Somalia and Syria.

What the president said also that day was we will make sure we can continue to sharpen and improve our abilities to go after these guys in an over the horizon, low footprint way. And we've proven that case time and time again.

BOLDUAN: With this, does President Biden, does the Biden administration trust the Taliban any more today than they did previous to this?

KIRBY: No, ma'am. This is not about trust.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

KIRBY: Not at all and we weren't involved in this. We didn't partner with them on this. They have said, they said in their agreement, which they signed under the Trump administration, that they were not going to allow Afghanistan to become a safe haven for Al Qaeda or terrorist networks.

We will hold them to that commitment. But this is not about trust, not the way that the Taliban is treating their own people, women and girls. They are not meeting all of their commitments to the international community. And we will continue to urge them to do that.

BOLDUAN: So much at the White House, we've been covering the state visit from the South Korean president and so much going on behind you today.

KIRBY: Yes.

BOLDUAN: You also announced this morning and I wanted to ask you about the unfolding situation in Sudan. You announced that the second U.S. citizen has died amid the fighting in Khartoum. We have been told that he was a doctor working there.

What more can you tell us?

KIRBY: Unfortunately, there's not a lot publicly we can say. I mean, we want to respect the privacy of the family, of course. So there's a limit to what we can publicly, put out there. But we are very, very sad to hear that news. Our thoughts and prayers continue to go out to that family as well.

Look, we are focused on doing what we can to assist Americans who want to leave. Primarily that's through ground routes right now. And we know several dozens of Americans have been able to make their way to Port Sudan on ground routes that the U.S. military is providing overwatch and using unmanned drones to cover that.

We will continue to communicate with Americans that are in Khartoum and make sure that they have the best information possible.

BOLDUAN: Has the position from the administration shifted over the last couple of days?

Because as you're saying and you said this morning, the U.S. government is trying to facilitate the departure of a small number of Americans from Sudan. You said very clearly on Monday that the conditions were just not there, it was not safe to mobilize and get people out. And the advice I heard from you on Monday is that Americans should shelter in place.

What's changed?

KIRBY: What's changed is that the United States, through Secretary Blinken and the State Department, helped broker a cease-fire that largely seems to be holding, Kate. It started taking place the evening of the 24th. I'm not going to go so far as to say there's no violence.

Of course, we've seen reports of sporadic violence and shelling in and around Khartoum. But usually the violence is way down from what it was. And we want to take advantage of the cease-fire to make sure that Americans know, if they want to make the move, that's the decision they have to make.

And it's not that it's risk-free but if they do want to make a move, we'll get them the information they need to link up with the ground routes. It is still dangerous. I want to stress that. It is still dangerous.

But the cease-fire seems to be holding or at least contributing to a cease-fire in violence. What we want to do now is see if we can get that cease-fire extended.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

KIRBY: What we have and the rest of the world has is humanitarian assistance, food, water, medicine. And many hospitals are closing and the citizens in Khartoum are suffering. And we want to see the cease- fire so humanitarian assistance can get in.

BOLDUAN: Overnight we saw Germany moving citizens out and Jordan has moved citizens out and Saudi Arabia brought a ship to bring citizens out.

Is the Biden administration doing less to get American citizens out of Sudan than we're seeing from other nations?

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KIRBY: No, not at all. Look, we're not foreclosing any other options. The primary focus right now are on these ground routes, which have been moving successfully, slowly but successfully. And we are providing overwatch for that. We have a Navy ship at Port Sudan and we may provide other Navy ships to help assist.

That seems to be a process that's working well but we will not foreclose any other option if we need to do something more aggressively. And I will tell you that the universe of Americans, American citizens, that have expressed a desire to leave and a willingness to move on short notice is a very small number.

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BOLDUAN: It's far less than the 16,000 estimated to be there, John?

KIRBY: Incredibly far less than that, much, much less than that.

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KIRBY: I think it's important to remember, most of those 16,000 that you've seen -- first of all, that's an estimate. Most of them are dual nationals. They grew up in Sudan and they have family members in Sudan that are not dual nationals and they don't want to leave.

I'm hesitant to give you an exact number but it's very small. It's in the many dozens kind of a number. And so because that population is so small, right now we're focused on making sure that they have access to information to get on these ground routes.

Plus some of our allies and partners are willing to open up some seats on their planes for other foreign nationals, including Americans. And so we are providing that information for them as well. That may be another way to get out.

But look, the cease-fire is working but it's tenuous. We also want to be mindful of that.

BOLDUAN: That is an excellent point, John. Thank you for your time and thank you for coming in.

John Kirby from the White House -- Sara.

SIDNER: Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is back in solitary confinement after his first court appearance in months. The new charges that he is now facing. That's ahead. [11:30:00]