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Americans Stuck In Sudan; Trump Loses Appeal To Block Pence; Jessica Roth Is Interviewed About The Trump Civil Trial; DeSantis Blasts Disney; Giant Panda Returns To China. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 27, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Who have fled Sudan say that they have faced. This as an estimated dozens of U.S. citizens are still there and are pleading for help. A 72-hour cease-fire that had only marginal effect is about to expire completely. Supplies, including food, water and medicine, they are running out. More than 500 people have now died in that violence, including two Americans.

CNN's Kylie Atwood is at the State Department this morning.

You know, Kylie, John Kirby, from the White House, told Kate yesterday there were only many dozens of Americans who were trying to get out of Sudan, but these people who are trying, what are they saying this morning? How frustrated are they?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: They're really frustrated, John. When we talk to the family members of these Americans who are in Sudan right now, what they say is that it is an incredibly delicate, frustrating situation that they're trying to maneuver. Not to mention, you know, the safety ramifications that they're running into. So, we spoke with a number of Americans, particularly whose parents are in the country and trying to get out right now, and what they described was, quote, shock and disgust when it comes to the U.S. government's lack of support for the safety of these citizens.

Now, we know that the U.S. government has said that they are in close connectivity with these Americans, that they are helping to facilitate their way out of the country, but that isn't the story when you talk to most of these American families who are essentially trying to figure out, you know, the quickest way out, but also, in their words, making life or death decisions as they determine which pathway might be the best for their family members who are in the country.

And as you've said earlier, this happens as there's been this cease- fire that was struck earlier this week. It's about to run out. But it hasn't even necessarily held across the country. So, when that expires, the question is, will it get even more violent?

And here are some of the Americans that we spoke to in the U.S. who described the conditions that their family members, Americans in the county, are facing as they try and get their way out of the country. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IMAD, FAMILY MEMBERS STUCK AT Sudan BORDER: They're stuck at the border. There's no water. There's no food. The border is essentially a humanitarian crisis. And is -- they're not the only Americans who are facing this issue.

MAISOUN, FAMILY MEMBERS STUCK AT SUDAN BORDER: The wait time at the border is many days. Children are crying. And they're just laying on the ground. It's a desert. Even if you have cash, you can't buy anything because there's nothing. It's a desert. And they're just stranded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, U.S. officials have also said that they're not carrying out air evacuations for these American citizens because they say it would be more dangerous to them to actually carry out those evacuations, like we saw them carry out for the U.S. diplomats in the country over the weekend.

But the contrasting reality here, John, is that a lot of other countries are evacuating their citizens in the country. So it's not necessarily good optics for the U.S. government.

John.

BERMAN: Yes, and it's still not clear how much time is really left here.

Kylie Atwood, at the State Department, thank you very much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: A new setback for former President Donald Trump and the federal criminal investigation into his actions surrounding January 6th. Trump has lost an emergency attempt to block former Vice President Mike Pence from testifying about their direct communications. Trump has repeatedly tried and failed to block at least a dozen witnesses from testifying.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us now.

Katelyn, Pence announced not long ago that he will be willing to testify. So, what happens next?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Sara, Mike Pence could be going before that grand jury as soon as today because the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the appeals court that issued this order last night, they essentially - they basically told Trump that he's losing the whole ballgame here.

He may be able to continue on with appeals, trying and arguing executive privilege, but he's not going to be able to block Mike Pence from going into the grand jury. Pence is saying he's willing to testify. So now we're waiting and watching the court to see if he does show up, when he does show up, to give that unprecedented testimony.

Sara, this is no small thing. There have been many, many witnesses brought in by Special Counsel Jack Smith to testify to the grand jury in the January 6th investigation in the D.C. federal court, but Mike Pence is a vice president testifying against the president he served under, divulging conversations between just those two men, the two leaders of the country.

Normally, they don't share those types of things, but it is a situation where a grand jury needs information. We don't know exactly what the courts are saying to say that Trump loses here and Mike Pence needs to testify at this stage, but it's very clear that when a grand jury needs this sort of information, the secrecy around the presidency falls away.

[09:35:04]

And so Pence, when he goes to the grand jury, is very likely to be divulging, under oath, exactly what was said, what he can recall about the conversations Trump had with him when he was pressuring him after the election, the whole way up to the morning of January 6th, saying that he believed Mike Pence could block the outcome of the election. Pence, of course, was telling him no. That all was - all is going to become part of this January 6th investigation.

But Pence, of course, is just one in many, many people who have been forced to go in by the courts. Trump has lost four different appeals that he has tried to make blocking different testimony. And Pence will ultimately be at least one of a dozen people that are forced to go in here, and not a small one at that.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, we were looking at all those names. They were all insiders. They all have information that the grand jury is going to hear from.

Thank you so much, Katelyn Polantz, we appreciate you, live from Washington.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, we are standing by for what will likely be another dramatic day in court. Columnist E. Jean Carroll will be soon facing cross-examination from Donald Trump's legal team. She's been on the stand accusing Donald Trump of rape and defamation. Yesterday she became emotional when giving a detailed account of the alleged sexual assault, saying at one point, I'm here because Donald Trump raped me, and when I wrote about it, he said it didn't happen. Also testifying, quote, he lied and shattered my reputation and I'm here to try to get my life back.

This is a civil lawsuit and Carroll is suing Trump for battery and defamation, alleging that he raped her in a dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman back in the '90s, and then attacked her character when she eventually spoke publicly about it. Joining us right now for more on her testimony, what to expect now, is

former federal prosecutor Jessica Roth.

It's great to have you here, Jessica. Thank you for coming in.

In what we know of her testimony, from what she said on the stand yesterday, you think her testimony was strong. What sticks out to you?

JESSICA ROTH, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Well, it was -- appears to have been very detailed about the -- not only the assault that she alleges, but also the impact on her in the decades that have - that have followed. And that's necessary for proving damages but also for her defamation claim. She talked about the impact of Trump's denial of her allegations once she finally came forward and the harm that it did to her, including to her reputation and to her financial interests.

Her success in this case is really going to, in many ways, rise and fall on the credibility of her testimony. So, the fact that it was so powerful and vivid yesterday and had the details about the assault itself and its impact on her I think is very significant.

BOLDUAN: She's going to -- I believe she's going to face a bit more questioning from her attorneys today and then she's going to face cross examination from Donald Trump's legal team.

When talking - when we're talking about an alleged rape, that seems a very delicate task in terms of cross-examination and how that comes across to a jury. What would you expect from Trump's attorneys today and how they go about that, what the strategy is around that in cross- examining E. Jean Carroll now?

ROTH: Well, they've already broadcast to a certain extent in their opening statements and in statements out of court about what their strategy is going to be. They're going to suggest that she's lying. I mean that is going to be the allegation, that she has made this up for purposes of gaining fame and fortune through sales of her book and also the status, the prestige that has come along with sort of occupying this space in the public. They're further going to suggest that her failure to come forward earlier, before Trump was in politics, suggests that she's further motivated by a political bias against him.

BOLDUAN: So, it seems that in testimony yesterday Carroll's attorney tried to get ahead of that, as they knew it was begin projected -

ROTH: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Through questioning she said at one point, I'm not settling a political score, I'm settling a personal score because he called me a liar repeatedly and it really has decimating my reputation. I'm a journalist. The one thing I have to have is the trust of the readers, as you were getting to.

What did you think of that? Do you think that's a -- that was effective in how they were trying to kind of get ahead of where things are going to be heading?

ROTH: Absolutely. They knew full well what the strategy by the defense was going to be. So they were trying to get ahead of it, sort of already implant in the juror's mind what the explanation would be for her failure to come forward earlier and what her other motivations would be when she talked about how it was important to have her day in court.

And they also - her lawyers made clear in their opening statement what other evidence they're going to present to try to shore up her credibility, including witnesses to whom she made statements very close to the time of the alleged assault about it happening, in a way consistent with her testimony on the stand yesterday.

And those prior consistent statements are going to be important, I think, to the injury in reassuring them that she hasn't recently fabricated these claims for any of the reasons that Trump's team would allege.

BOLDUAN: And then the ruling that the - that her team is going to be able to bring in testimony from two other women who say that they were assaulted in a similar way by Donald Trump. That I know you think is going to be critical in how this goes forward.

[09:40:03]

We're going to see - let's wait until we see how that is presented.

It's great to have you, Jessica. Thanks for coming in.

ROTH: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Another dramatic day in court that's going to be playing out, John.

BERMAN: Indeed. Thanks, Kate.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis taking new swings at Disney this morning after the company sued him alleging that he violated its federal constitutional rights. And an incredible, unified demand for the release of "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Major newspapers today are joining together and demanding the release of "Wall Street Journal" reporting Evan Gershkovich. Today, "The Journal," "Washington Post," "The New York Times" are all running a full-page ad featuring a joint letter from the newspapers editors and publishers calling for Russian authorities to let him go.

[09:45:07]

He's been wrongfully detained now for four weeks. The publications letters say in part this, as editors and publishers of some of America's largest news organizations, we are united in calling for his immediate release. Reporting is not a crime. In Ukraine, at least one person is dead and nearly two dozen more have

been injured in a Russian missile attack on the city of Mykolaiv. Ukrainian authorities say the attack was carried out early this morning from the Black Sea, and the targets, according to the Ukrainian authorities, were civilian buildings.

And in London, Madame Tussauds is unveiling its new wax work of Queen Consort Camilla ahead of the coronation of King Charles. The museum's new royal palace exhibit is opening in the lead up, of course, to the big event, which is May 6th. Camilla's statue will stand alongside Charles, the prince and princess of Wales, the late queen, and duke of Edinburgh in the throne room. This is also one of John Berman's favorite cultural experiences is a wax museum.

BERMAN: Yes, and the throne room. Completely different context.

Florida Governor, and potential Republican presidential candidate, Ron DeSantis is slamming Disney this morning after the company sued him. Disney accused DeSantis of violating its federal constitutional rights by weaponizing his power to violate Disney's protected free speech.

Disney notes it is one of Florida's largest taxpayers, paying more than a billion dollars in state and local taxes each year. It's also one of the state's largest private employers, with more than 75,000 workers. I think it's the single largest employer in the entire country at one site with 75,000 people in one place.

CNN's Steve Contorno joins us from St. Petersburg.

And, Steve, Governor DeSantis is doing this while he's on this international road show.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: That's right, John, DeSantis was in Israel today, and this issue has followed him around the globe. This morning he was delivering remarks at an address that was supposed to touch on his pro-Israel beliefs, and instead it was somewhat overshadowed by the Disney controversy. He was asked during a Q&A after the event about the lawsuit. And DeSantis was forced to respond. And he gave this reaction to the lawsuit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): They've been treated much different than Universal, Sea World, and all these other places. And so they're upset because they're actually having to live by the same rules as everybody else. They don't want to have to pay the same taxes as everybody else. And they want to be able to control things without proper oversight.

I don't think the suit has merit. I think it's political.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Now, Disney, in this lawsuit, which spans 77 pages, claims that DeSantis' administration engaged in a relentless campaign of political retribution all because the company spoke out, in pretty mild terms, against the so-called don't say gay bill last year. And ever since then, the governor's office, and people that he has appointed to oversee Disney's new special taxing district, have been punishing the company for speaking out and making that statement.

Now, this lawsuit also says that DeSantis was boasting about these actions and that's how they -- why they believe they have a First Amendment case, that it was not just a leveling of the playing field, as DeSantis said, but this was specific retribution in response to something that Disney said.

Now, a court in the northern district of Florida will decide whether Disney or DeSantis is right, John.

BERMAN: And his public comments, as governor, could come into play in this.

Steve Contorno, in Florida. Thanks so much for your reporting, Steve.

Sara.

SIDNER: She was once a symbol of the high point in China's relationship with the United States, and now giant panda Ya Ya is back in the diplomatic spotlight after being returned to her home country from the Memphis Zoo. Why so many in China demanded her return after 20 years. We're live in Beijing, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:53:12]

BOLDUAN: The giant and beloved panda Ya Ya is back in China this morning. She left the Memphis Zoo yesterday after 20 years there. She was hugely popular and the subject of important research. In a statement, the zoo said that Ya Ya will be, quote, sorely missed.

Ya Ya came to the United States in 2003 as part of China's so-called panda diplomacy, to improve ties between the two countries.

Fast forward 20 years later, it is a very different relationship, as we well know now, between the two countries, with people in China demanding Ya Ya's return.

And this story also involves accusations of rumor, propaganda and misinformation.

CNN's Selina Wang joins us from Beijing.

Selina, what are you hearing now that Ya Ya has returned?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, well, for many people in China, this is a moment of celebration that could not have come soon enough. So Ya Ya the panda landed in Shanghai on Thursday after a 16- hour FedEx flight. After 30 days of quarantine in Shanghai, she will eventually settle in the Beijing Zoo.

Now, people across China have been watching her arrival very closely because for months many have been petitioning for this 22-year-old panda to return home. What sparked this outrage was viral video showing the panda looking skinny with scraggly fur. People started accusing the American zoo of mistreatment, even abuse. The rumors were often amplified by state propaganda.

Now, in contrast, videos of Russian pandas looking healthy and active have also been going viral on Chinese social media. Many claiming here in China that it's proof Russia is treating the Chinese bears a lot better.

Now, key information here is that Chinese and American scientists have said that the panda, Ya Ya, in the Memphis Zoo, had been receiving excellent care before she is now back in China, and that the reason why she looks skinny with scraggly fur is because of a genetic condition.

[09:55:02]

But that message has not been getting through. I went to the Beijing Zoo's panda exhibit a few days ago and this is what people told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WANG: An 11-year-old boy tells me, I hear the U.S. is treating the panda poorly.

This man says, isn't Russia taking good care of pandas. Pandas are happy over there, not like in the U.S.

And this man, with his granddaughter, tells me, pandas in Russia are very happy. Why? Russians and Chinese are friends. At least Russia is not sanctioning China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WANG: So, Kate, China loans out its pandas as a symbol of friendship and good will, but America has not received any pandas in two decades. And this panda's return back to China, symbolic, not a growing friendship but growing animosity between two global superpowers.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, Selina, thank you so much for that.

And as we were listening to that sound bite, John and I were remarking from across the studio how fascinating this really is, how emblematic it is of the distrust of this relationship. And it's just - it's a really kind of fascinating window into it, especially because all these calls are coming from the public, the people in China, and then - and then amplified by propaganda from the Chinese government.

It's great to see you, Selina. Thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: Yes, panda propaganda. Just amazing to hear from the Chinese citizens on that. BOLDUAN: Your use of alliteration, you know, gets me every time.

BERMAN: Republican lawmakers in Montana punish a transgender lawmaker over comments about gender affirming care, banning her from the house floor for the rest of the legislative session.

And a Massachusetts man, accused of killing and dismembering his wife, set to appear in court shortly.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)