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Soon: Suspect In Court As Prosecutors Call Him A Flight Risk; Blinken: U.S. Working On "Sustained Process" For Evacuation; Parents Of Louisville Mass Killer: "We Are So Sorry." Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 27, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: The Air National Guard has been accused of leaking classified intelligence of peers in court. All, while there are new details revealed in his case, including Jack Teixeira's arsenal of weapons and his alleged effort to cover his tracks. We'll take you live outside the courthouse for the very latest.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And the parents of the Louisville bank shooter are speaking out and they have a message for the victims' families. They say we are so sorry. Ahead, what more we are hearing from the last time they saw their son?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Shocked and disgusted. Those are the words from Americans who feel abandoned by the U.S. government and left to navigate the complicated and dangerous situation in Sudan. Secretary of State Antony Blinken just responded to that CNN reporting. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Right now, the Air National Guardsman accused of leaking highly classified intelligence documents is facing a federal judge. Prosecutors are arguing that 21-year-old Jack Teixeira is still posing a grave threat to national security and should remain in custody ahead of his trial.

In a late-night court filing, prosecutors allege that Teixeira may still have access to hundreds of classified documents. And that his online search history was "what appears to be a deliberate effort to disseminate this country's secrets." They also claim that Teixeira is a major flight risk and an attractive candidate to foreign governments.

Let's go to CNN's Jason Carroll who's outside the courthouse live in Worcester, Massachusetts. Jason, take us inside the courtroom. What's happening now?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, that detention hearing, Boris, is well underway. First up on the stand was Jack Teixeira's father. As you know, he has been present during many of the court proceedings leading up to this. The judge at one point asked him if by chance he ends up ruling that Teixeira would be let out on bail in his custody, he said do you understand your responsibility? And he said I believe I do. The judge went on to say it was reported that after the proceeding, you called out to your son and you said I love you.

The judge then said again, do you understand that if he broke conditions of his release that you would have the responsibility of turning him in? He said Yes, Your Honor.

Boris, as you know, the defense has argued in part that the -- that when he shared this information on Discord, they're arguing that he didn't mean for it to go across the internet. It was just meant to be shared, this classified information, with just this group that he was talking to on Discord. And just a few moments ago, the judge said this.

The judge said someone under the age of 30 has no idea that if they put something on the internet that would end up anywhere in this world, seriously? The defense said I don't know the exact circumstances. The judge followed up and said, look, the circumstances of this event are that he had no idea that it would go beyond this little circle of people on the server. That is like someone arguing I pulled the trigger but I had no intent to kill him.

One of the more dramatic moments in court, as this detention hearing is still underway. The prosecution, of course, arguing that he is a flight risk and that he could be a risk to himself and others in the community. The defense -- the prosecution saying at one point, he's no longer a small child sitting at a big desk with big computers.

He's also not the person he described himself to be in a letter to a police officer when he was seeking a firearm. When that -- in terms of what he was referring to was back in March of 2018 when he tried to get a permit for a firearm, but he was denied by police after police found out that he was suspended from high school due to some of the comments that he had made. Boris.

SANCHEZ: And, Jason, we're learning that prosecutors believe he may have access to more documents. What are they saying about that?

CARROLL: Right. The prosecution says that Teixeira had access to hundreds of classified documents. Not dozens, but hundreds. And they believe that if he's released on bail, he could somehow still get access to those documents, which is another reason why, Boris, they say he should remain behind bars.

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SANCHEZ: Some important details and especially that exchange with the judge really telling as to where things are in the courtroom. Jason Carroll, from Worcester, Massachusetts, thank you so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes, a lot to discuss here. We have Democratic Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger of Virginia with us. She is on the House Intel Committee. Thank you so much for being with us. I wanted to ask you because we now know that the Government Accountability Office, they really put everyone on blast five years ago. And I'm reading from a 2018 press release, it says.

"GAO adds government-wide personnel security clearance process to high-risk list." And it explains in the first sentence of this press release, how that means it needs "either broad-based transformation or specific reforms." Has Congress -- has anyone done either of those things, Congresswoman?

REP. ABIGAIL SPANBERGER (D-VA): So, broad-based reforms, I think are certainly what should ultimately be the outcome after it's fully understood how the individual in this case was able to not just access information that he had absolutely no need to access, but that he was able to download it, that he was able to take that information with him and that he was able to subsequently make it available on the internet. And we are focused on fully building upon what should have been lessons learned from prior circumstances when there's been releases of classified information.

And certainly, at this moment, everyone across Capitol Hill, but particularly members of the intelligence committee, are focused on understanding exactly how this happened, what went wrong, how this individual had a security clearance in the first place, and then how there were no red flags triggered every time he was accessing information that he should not have been accessing.

KEILAR: You're saying these should have been lessons learned. Do you think that if Congress had better heated what they have known for some time to be a vulnerability here, something like this could have been prevented?

SPANBERGER: Well, I'm a former CIA officer. I had a security clearance, everything. I touched in my old job before coming to Congress was classified.

And what I know to be true from my experience there was a lengthy security clearance process, was a very strict enforcement of need to know, was a very clear parameters around how you handle print, touched documents of various different classification levels. And so, here, we're seeing you know, questions related to inconsistencies between areas via different intelligence agencies or inconsistencies in how someone is moving from a cleared position -- you know, receiving a clearance into a position where they're then utilizing or not utilizing that clearance. So really, across the board, there needs to be a full review of what's happening within the individual agencies to make sure that we are seeing you know, basically adherence to the highest level.

We should see, you know, lessons learned and utilizing the strengths that some agencies are employing to avoid these sorts of leaks. But certainly, Congress in its oversight role must continue to ask really probing aggressive questions about how it is possible that this happened. And certainly, you know, just in a few years since we've seen prior such disclosures. KEILAR: And aside from questions and hearings, what kind of changes maybe? I mean, like you said, you were in the intelligence community.

SPANBERGER: Yes.

KEILAR: They take some pretty serious precautions, things like polygraphs. Do you think that there should be random polygraphs or audits or something like that, that are needed for some of these lower-level folks who have access to Intel?

SPANBERGER: Well, in -- and this is an example, Brianna, where there's differences across agencies. As a CIA officer, we had regular polygraphs, full scope -- lifestyle polygraphs, and that's just not something that's part of the clearance process in other agencies. So, reflecting on how valuable that is, as a tool, I think is going to be important.

Is it something that should be employed across the board, or within the actual systems themselves? What sort of technological capabilities exist or upgrades need to be implemented so that when someone liked this man who had no need to be accessing the information, the files, the documents he was accessing, where were -- you know why we're there, not pings going off each time? Was his supervisor being alerted? Were people in the counterintelligence shop being alerted that he was accessing information?

You know, certainly, the standards that are kept in some agencies, we need to make sure that across the board. Where there are strong protocols, let's have other agencies learn, let's make sure that we're kind of raising the minimum standard and certainly continuing that ongoing process to ensure that information is protected.

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Clearly, many things went wrong in this place from the very beginning. From the court documents that have been released, it's clear that this individual had what I think should have been clearer suitability issues related --

KEILAR: Well, sure. Yes.

SPANBERGER: -- to whether or not he should have had information access in the first place. And then what sort of ongoing vetting is occurring or not occurring that someone like this, who has this online activity is not you know, coming across --

KEILAR: He was --

SPANBERGER: -- someone's desk is a really worrisome risk.

KEILAR: He was searching things like Ruby Ridge, Uvalde, the Vegas shooting the Buffalo shooting.

SPANBERGER: Yes.

KEILAR: He had a history of violent and racist remarks. That goes to your point of suitability. What else needs to be done to keep radicalized people out of the military or remove them from the military?

SPANBERGER: Well, this is an important effort. I don't serve on the floor -- on the Armed Services Committee. But certainly, the Armed Service Committee has had significant and important hearings, noting the fact that we know that extremist organizations are interested in recruiting those with military experience.

So, making sure that people are aware that they might be a target is an incredibly important preventative measure. This is no negative reflection on military members. This is a reflection on the activities of extremist groups and who they want to go after.

So, the first part of inoculating or the first part of making sure that people know that someone might be pursuing them as a target is just very clearly stating, and ensuring that they know that. And a focus on mission and a focus on protecting our country -- you know, it's going to be the military service members themselves that should be the ones that when they hear potentially some of the extremist violent horrific rhetoric that this man was putting out into the space online, potentially, among his peers, you know what sort of counter- intelligence provisions were or were not in place? Where was there a reporting mechanism? Did his peers know about this activity? And did they have a means by which they knew they could report it to his chain of command?

KEILAR: Yes, big questions there. Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us today. We really do appreciate it.

SPANBERGER: Thank you.

KEILAR: Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes, so many more questions to be answered on that leak. Well, another story we're following, this overseas. No food, no water, no medicine, no police, and a ceasefire that's about to end this midnight.

Governments are scrambling to evacuate civilians from Sudan, that includes Americans. Last hour, Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced the U.S. is working on a new system to get those U.S. nationals there back home.

CNN's Kylie Atwood, she's at the State Department. Kylie, I mean, there's a math problem here, right, estimated 16,000 U.S. citizens in Sudan, many of them dual nationals. I mean, is the actual plan here to give all of them the option to come out of the country or a portion of them?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, listen. What the Secretary of State talked about was the need for a sustained process to be set up to help get those Americans out of the country who want to leave. You referenced 16,000, that is a number that the State Department has shared with Congress. We don't know how many of those Americans -- many of those Sudanese Americans are actually going to want to leave. But what the secretary said today was that he and his team are actively working to extend the ceasefire that was put into place earlier this week, which is actually going to end later today. Because he said, if they're able to do that, that at least reduces violence somewhat.

He acknowledged that it has been imperfect. And then he talked about the need for there to be this sustained process to help those Americans get out of the country. Listen to that.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: What we need to do, and what we're working to establish is a sustained process for enabling people to leave assuming that the conditions that we see now are maintained. By which I mean, on the one hand, yes, ceasefire however imperfect, but also ongoing violence, confrontation between the two rival military groups.

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ATWOOD: And the other thing that he talked about is that the U.S. believes the way to have the best-sustained capability to get these Americans out is through overland routes. But, of course, Americans are watching as other countries are flying flights into the country to help evacuate their citizens on those flights. And they feel frustrated that the U.S. government isn't doing that for them.

SCIUTTO: Listen, echoes of Afghanistan. So, you have awareness. You've been speaking to Americans there. What's the situation for them as they tried to get out? What are their options?

ATWOOD: Well, listen. It's a really harrowing discussion. Talking to these folks who, you know have family members, American citizens who are trying to get out of the country. We spoke with one woman earlier today, Muna Daoud. She talked about her parents taking a 12-hour bus ride out of Khartoum to Port Sudan.

At one point, her father was pulled off the bus. He was held up at gunpoint by one of the warring factions in the country right now. He finally made it to the port, but they haven't actually received any U.S. government support when they got there.

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And the frustrating thing for them is that they were told by the State Department, they say, that they needed to find their own way to get out of Khartoum and to get to places where they can get out of the country. But when they get to those places like Port Sudan or like the border with Egypt, they're not actually finding U.S. government resources who are helping them to get to a safer place. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes, a lot of steps to get out safely and to get home safely. Kylie Atwood, thanks so much. Boris? SANCHEZ: The parents of the Louisville bank shooter are speaking out for the first time. Hear what they had to say about their son's mental health and their message to the families of victims.

And as President Biden ramps up his reelection bid, his administration is announcing new measures to contain an issue that could have major implications for 2024. We're talking about immigration. We're going to break down that plan straight ahead.

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KEILAR: This is just beyond a parent's worst nightmare, grieving the death of their child as they learn he is a mass murderer. That is the rare perspective heard today from the parents of the killer who gunned down these five people in a Louisville bank about two weeks ago. Lisa and Todd Sturgeon spoke to NBC News saying that they wish they could take back what their son, Connor, did.

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LISA STURGEON, MOTHER OF LOUISVILLE BANK SHOOTER: We're so sorry. We are heartbroken. We wish we could undo it but we know we can't. He did this to totally innocent individuals. There is no provocation, no justification, no rationalization at all.

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, ANCHOR, NBC NEWS: What scares you about doing an interview like this?

TODD STURGEON, FATHER OF LOUISVILLE BANK SHOOTER: We have a concern about inadvertently being disrespectful to the families. Our heart is just shattered for them and what they're going through.

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KEILAR: CNN's Omar Jimenez is with us now. Omar, the Sturgeons -- this was really a revelatory interview that they gave. They said that Connor had attempted suicide in the past. They say that he was in treatment recently. And they also said he should never have been able to buy a gun.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes, Brianna. There was a lot here. And mainly, they were -- or in large part, they were detailing some of their son's struggles with mental health that the Tuesday before this shooting, he called his mom saying he had a panic attack at work and had to leave. So, she offered him support. And he took it.

They went to see a psychiatrist. And that afterward, it seemed like he was coming out of a crisis. The last time they saw their son was Easter Sunday. They say he was joking around, but for all intents and purposes seemed normal. They, of course, had no idea what was going to happen the next day.

And then the morning of the shooting, the mom gets a call from the shooter's roommate essentially laying out what was going to happen. Take a listen to how not just the mom is processing that but also how both of them are processing everything that happened.

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LISA STURGEON: The roommate said he has a gun and I'm like he had -- where did he get a gun? Because of his mental condition, he should not have been able to purchase the gun.

TODD STURGEON: We know that Connor was seeing to health -- mental health professionals and that he was able to walk in. And from what we've been told again -- I don't know. You know, just what we've been told is that he walked in and was walked out with a weapon and ammunition in 40 minutes.

LISA STURGEON: And it was $600.

TODD STURGEON: Well-meaning people keep saying to us, you know, you did what -- any you know, reasonable parents would have done. But Connor in his darkest hour needed us to be exceptional, not reasonable. And we failed him.

We were not exceptional. And I guess if we can send a message to people that you -- when you're faced with this may have to go to exceptional means maybe that it can help open their eyes to this.

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JIMENEZ: The shooter's family has said that they're testing the body for CTE. But the dad also said he's afraid that whatever they come up with as a cause, still won't make this make sense, Brianna.

KEILAR: It was interesting to hear the Sturgeons say, Omar, that loved ones of the victims have actually reached out to them.

JIMENEZ: Yes. That's where NBC is reporting that a couple of the families of the victims have reached out to the Sturgeons offering in some way support saying that they are praying for you too, that they were essentially astonished at the generosity and kindness of course, in the midst of their loved ones being killed by their son. And those names -- because I want to make sure they're here too, is Tommy Elliot, Joshua Barrick, James Tutt, Juliana Farmer, Deanna Eckert. Those were the five that were killed.

And just highlighting the complicated nature of this for at least a shooter's family, the dad as part of that interview said when he first found out that shots were fired at the Old National Bank, he went from hoping his son was OK to at one point, hoping his son killed himself so that other people wouldn't get hurt. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes. So many lives shattered as we see here. Families shattered because of this. Omar, thank you for the report. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Well, onto another shattered life. The Massachusetts man accused of killing and dismembering his own wife is now back in court as prosecutors reveal another potential motive in that case. And in Florida, appears to be snow on the ground actually, it's hail. Wicked weather once again slamming major parts of the country. Who stands to be impacted? That's coming up.

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[14:29:25]

KEILAR: Now, to our top stories. The suspect involved in the leak of highly classified Pentagon documents just appeared in federal court. Prosecutors just provide a new photo evidence that they say shows the 21-year-old Air National Guardsman, Jack Teixeira, took documents that "far exceed what has been reported," and that releasing him could actually pose a grave threat to national security. They also say he had a history of making extremely violent threats including wanting to take -- make a minivan into an "assassination van"

And "feeling abandoned." That's what some Americans stranded in Sudan are saying as the situation there grows more dire.