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Khartoum Filled with Smoke Despite New 3-Day Ceasefire; Americans Urged by U.S. to Leave Sudan Within the Next 48 Hours; Tim Walz Signed Legislation that Further Enshrines the Right Gender- Affirming Care into Law; College and University Campuses Engage in Discussions About Free Speech; Kind Charles' Coronation Being Finalized. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 28, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: CNN's Kylie Atwood, she's at the state department for us with the very latest. Kylie, what do you know -- what more can you tell us about Welker's journey to get out of Sudan.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, listen, Kate, she was able to walk through -- CNN through that journey. And it began pretty early in April when all of these gunshots started to be heard by her outside of her apartment in Khartoum. She is an American teacher, as you were saying, who is living there and working there.

And after that happened, she had to move to a safer place. So, she moved to two different hotels. She spent four nights in those separate hotels. And then finally, after what she says was messages from the U.S. State Department telling them that they shouldn't expect any U.S. government-led evacuation. They found out that the French embassy was going to be leading an evacuation and they were welcoming U.S. citizens to get on that evacuation flight.

So, on April 24th, she was flown from Sudan to Djibouti on a French military flight. She was along with many other teachers on that flight. And, of course, as you said, she is now finally home here in the United States. But one of the things that she pointed out when she spoke to CNN, is that the Americans who are in Sudan right now, aren't there on vacation. They're there for humanitarian and educational reasons. And that's why she is making the case that the U.S. government should really be doing more to support their evacuation getting out of the country.

I want to read to you some of the quotes that she told our colleagues about what she thinks about now that she's safely home but others aren't. Saying, "I'm out. I'm safe, but so many people I care about and worked with aren't. I just worry now because now the internet keeps going out. So, it's hard to get information and find out who's where and who's safe."

And Kate, that is the story that we have heard repeatedly from Americans who are there trying to get in touch with their family members back home. The internet keeps going out. So, even if they are in caravans on their way out of the country, the concerning thing is their family members might not hear from them hours on end.

BOLDUAN: That's a good point. And the administration continues to face questions on this. We asked John Kirby about it when he was on the show earlier this week, and it seems that they're going to continue to face questions on this as the ceasefire in Khartoum and across the country, is very clearly not holding. Kylie, thanks for staying on top of it. Really appreciate it.

So, as soon as the crisis in Sudan unfolded, the Biden administration has maintained -- the way they put is that it's not standard practice to use the military to evacuate citizens from war zones or places of conflict. But there have been several instances when the military did just that. Some examples, Rwanda in 1994 when the marines helped evacuate 241 citizens during that country's civil war.

In 1997, marines also helped evacuate nearly 900 American citizens from Albania due to that country's civil unrest. In 2006, the U.S. helped to orchestrate a massive evacuation effort bringing in sea and air assets to help nearly 15,000 American citizens leave Lebanon amid the war between Israel and Hezbollah then. And the U.S. military also helped evacuate Americans from Liberia multiple times over the last several decades due to the fighting there. First in 1999, then again in '92, '96, and also then in 2003.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Important context there.

Debates swirling on college campuses over the state of free speech. The controversy unfolding amid political clashes over transgender rights.

And, just days away from the coronation of King Charles. An in-depth look at how that country is preparing for the crowning of England's newest monarch. Stay with us.

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[10:35:00]

BERMAN: Overnight, the right to gender-affirming care became a state law in Minnesota after Governor Tim Walz signed new legislation. The human rights campaign says that across the country, there are more than 110 state bills barring transgender people from accessing gender affirming care. The fight for transgender rights has become a controversial flash point, specifically on college campuses. CNN's Elle Reeve has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Trans lives matter. Trans lives matter. Trans lives matter.

REEVE (voiceover): That's conservative podcaster Michael Knowles being burned in effigy at the University of Pittsburgh last week. Knowles' most famous for this one line in a speech at CPAC this year.

MICHAEL KNOWLES, CONSERVATIVE PODCASTER: Transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely.

REEVE (voiceover): And he was brought to pit by a conservative group to debate whether the government should regulate with a group calls transgenderism. But he was met by a rowdy protest outside. Such student protests have sparked a bigger debate about whether kids these days no longer have the appetite to debate controversial issues on campus.

REEVE (on camera): Is free speech dead on campus?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, obviously, he is speaking right now. We are not shutting him down. We don't want him to speak. Hopefully we can drown him out. We are, right now, enacting our right to free speech just the way that he is.

CHRYSTAL, PITTSBURGH RESIDENT: You can't debate intolerance. If someone wants to inflict harm on you, are you going to debate them inflicting harm on you? No.

[10:40:00]

KNOWLES: Thank you very much. It's very kind of you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trans rights are human rights.

CROWD: Trans rights are human rights. Trans rights are human rights.

KNOWLES: You there, do you know --

REEVE (voiceover): As the debate started, some protesters were removed. Speakers who opposed trans rights have sparked protests nationwide. At universities in Iowa, Utah and New York just in April. Last month Stanford Law students heckled a federal judge about his record on trans rights. The law school's dean scolded the students in a public letter but declined CNN's request for an interview.

REEVE (on camera): Do you think kids are less able to take -- or listen to opposing views now?

JESS KLEIN, INSTRUCTOR, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: No, I don't think they're less able to listen to opposing views. I just think they take less crap as they get older and realize that hate speech is hate speech and free speech is free speech. And I do believe the two things are very different from each other.

REEVE (voiceover): These speakers are often brought to campus by outside conservative groups, such as the Intercollegiate Studies Institute and the Young America's Foundation. Then the university has to figure out how to deal with the backlash. Afterward, those group sometimes post videos of the event in which students are humiliated.

MARY ANNE FRANKS, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW SCHOLAR AND PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SCHOOL OF LAW: It's not a coincidence, right, that these events keep unfolding the way that they do. It's a deliberate strategy on the part of these organizations to try to find a controversial speaker, try to provoke the liberal students into having a reaction, and making sure all of that gets filmed, edited in a certain way that makes those students look as bad as possible.

REEVE (voiceover): ISI's president told CNN that it has no institutional strategy to provoke backlash, but it picks speakers who are substantial and provocative. He adds that he brings speakers who engage in healthy exchange of ideas with students with opposing views.

FRANKS: I think we do need to step back and say, what do we want out of this conversation? There needs to be some kind of reason to put it in front of people. And I think very often what gets skipped in these invitations is in place of value, you get controversy.

REEVE (voiceover): More than 11,000 people signed an online petition against Knowles and two other conservative speakers invited to Pitt. The school went forward with the events saying it upholds the principles of protective speech and expression. Though that speech can contradict the school's values. Knowles had been scheduled to debate Professor Deirdre McCloskey, who is trans. But McCloskey pulled out the week before, telling CNN that Knowles was not a serious person. Then ISI, the sponsor, offered trans writer Charlotte Clymer $10,000 to sub in. She said no.

REEVE (on camera): $10,000 is a lot.

CHARLOTTE CLYMER, WRITER AND ACTIVIST: Oh, yes. $10,000 is a lot of money. That would have paid off my car. That's half a year of rent.

REEVE: Have you ever been offered that much?

CLYMER: No, not even close.

REEVE: What does that some -- say to you?

CLYMER: It says they're willing to pay anything to grow their entertainment enterprise. I don't know why trans folks are expected to accept the premise that our humanity is up for debate. If it were a debate on whether or not to allow racial segregation back into society, we wouldn't have a debate about that. That would be unacceptable.

REEVE (voiceover): Finally, gay libertarian podcaster Brad Polumbo agreed to debate Knowles.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Polumbo, it's awesome that you could come here on such short notice. How much were they paying you to do this?

BRAD POLUMBO, GAY LIBERTARIAN PODCASTER: A lot.

REEVE (voiceover): Knowles, through spokeswoman, declined an interview with CNN. And despite the emphasis on free speech, ISI demanded media not film more than the debate's opening remarks. But once the event got going, no one ushered the media out. JOSH MINSKY, VICE PRESIDENT, COLLEGE REPUBLICANS AT PITT: Michael Knowles is a big speaker. He should be able to speak and have freedom of speech and sadly that's, kind of, being shut down in modern society as can you see outside.

REEVE (on camera): But would you have a panel where someone spoke about whether or not there should be legal murder?

MINSKY: No, because --

REEVE: So --

MINSKY: -- murder is objectively wrong and you're killing someone. But I would not put that on the same spectrum.

REEVE: What was that?

MINSKY: As I said about shutting down free speech, I think this is very good example of the fact that clearly something is going on here.

REEVE (voiceover): That boom was an incendiary device set off outside the building according to a university statement. No one was injured but some buildings were temporarily shut down.

REEVE (on camera): Do you think the point of this debate is to try to convince people in this room or to convince people on the internet?

MINSKY: I think it's both. I mean, look, all of the event is not to make some uneducated leftist kid, you know, feel like an idiot. So, I hope there's leftist people here that ask questions opposing Knowles and are able to do so respectfully.

REEVE: So, the protesters burned Michael Knowles an effigy which is protected speech.

CLYMER: It is -- I wonder that though.

REEVE: Why not?

CLYMER: It's too violent, it's too aggressive, in fact it's counterproductive. Because what they do is they take an image of that, they spread it online, and they say, see. This is what the movement is trying to do. They are going to burn anyone an effigy who disagrees with them.

REEVE (voiceover): She says this generation is different, but not because it's more fragile.

[10:45:00]

CLYMER: As millennials, you know, you and me, I think that we were taught to stand up for what we believe in. But we were also taught that there is a certain amount of abuse that we need to take in order to push the ball forward. In Gen Z, for them, they refuse to accept premises that are dehumanizing.

REEVE (on camera): Why do these debates over rights for minority groups always get converted into debates over free speech?

FRANKS: When someone backs you into a corner and says, I don't like your ideas. The easiest thing for you to say, oh, well, that's because you don't like my free speech. It's because you want to sensor me. And it's really the coward's way of trying to deal with any argument. Your answer should be, here is why my ideas are interesting and why important. Not invoking some kind of quasi constitutional grasp (ph) for what you have to say.

CROWD: Trans lives matters. Trans lives matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REEVE: So, Mary Anne Franks, the law professor we spoke to said that healthy institution would find a way for students to weigh in on a speaker before those invites went out. And she also that if professors are finding that their students are not so good at critical thinking, then the professors need to take some accountability for that because it's their job to teach them.

BERMAN: Elle, I really think that was a terrific report. And I hope people pay really close attention to all the information that was in there. And also, how you told the story because it built to, what I think, is an important climax at the end where you point out sometimes, in all of this, we have lost sight about what the actual discussion is, and that might be on purpose.

REEVE: They -- the activists would certainly agree.

BERMAN: Terrific work. Elle Reeve, thank you so much for being with us.

REEVE: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Still to come for us, we're hearing from Brittney Griner for the first time since her release from Russia. Her emotional first press conference. And Griner's head coach, Vanessa Nygaard, joins us as the Phoenix Mercury prepare for their big first game.

Plus, we're a week away now from the coronation of King Charles. A new look at the challenges ahead for the monarch, that's next.

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[10:50:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Final preparations are under way in London, just one week away now from the coronation of King Charles. This will be -- only the second ever televised coronation of the British monarch. The first was, of course, Queen Elizabeth, that was 70 years ago. And it has many asking, what this moment and the man mean for the modern world? This week on "The Whole Story", CNN's Erica Hill travels to London in search of those answers, meeting with leading British scholars, journalists and some of those closest to Queen Elizabeth and King Charms -- Charles himself. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When we are talk about Camilla and her P.R., it was a slow steady, playing the long game. From public enemy number one to where she is now, soon to be queen. Crowned in Westminster Abbey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, everybody.

CROWD: Good morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's got consciousness about her public image.

CAMILLA, QUEEN CONSORT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: What is going on here? History class?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she's also conscious, perhaps, of her husband's ego or the ego of the institution of royalty to which she belongs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charles was very jealous of Diana's popularity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, I think the reason Camilla fits in better with him than Diana is because she doesn't upstage him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: We're so lucky to have CNN Anchor and Nation Correspondent Erica Hill with us. You traveled to London.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Uh-huh.

SIDNER: I'm curious what people were telling you, just regular folks, about the fact that it is now going to be King Charles and for so long it was Queen Elizabeth.

HILL: So, we had some interesting reactions. I went there thinking, I don't know what this is going to be like. I had covered the diamond jubilee, and Will and Kate's wedding, and everybody was so excited.

SIDNER: Yes.

HILL: But you know, that was 12 years ago and we're in a different place now. Queen Elizabeth, to your point, was on the throne for 70 years. And I heard from more than person the fact that it's a man is interesting to me. I'm so used to seeing a woman on the throne. We heard, we didn't know anything about Queen Elizabeth, we know a lot about King Charles.

So, you heard a lot of different reaction. And I do think in this moment, too, when you are making a change after 70 years, there are questions that have always existed but they're getting a lot of attention now. Not only because you have a change in monarch. Some people are saying, what is this moment? What is the monarchy? Why do we have a monarchy in 2023? What do they do? And also, let's take a look at how we got here? How did this tiny island nation become so powerful? What was the empire built on? How is the empire built? And especially young people are asking a lot of those questions and they want a more fulsome discussion.

SIDNER: Yes, and it is not always a pretty picture either, the way in which the empire was built. You also discovered something that, I think, may surprise people. Parallels between Prince Harry and --

HILL: So, this --

SIDNER: -- soon to be King Charles?

HILL: This surprised me. So, we assembled -- just these phenomenal groups of, as you pointed out, scholars and journalists and some of those who were closest to the queen and to King Charles who worked in the royal household. And they were these fascinating discussions and debates. And one of the things that came up in more than one group were the similarities that they saw between Prince Harry, who's really trying to carve his own path. Who's saying, you know what, I was born into this. This is how I want to use this power for good. This is what I want to do.

[10:55:00]

And more than one person said, that reminds them of Prince Charles. And what he was doing is he was waiting, 70 years to take the throne, to figure out what would he do as the monarch in waiting? How would he use that power essentially for good, and how he was pushing back on the institution. Really interesting.

SIDNER: It as -- it is really interesting because you don't see that --

HILL: No.

SIDNER: -- so much to, right? To -- the public does not see that. You would have to be, kind of, an insider to know that. I mean, there was a king that abdicated, the British hate it when I bring that up, including my mother.

HILL: But it did happen.

SIDNER: It did happen.

HILL: Indeed, it did, yes. And we'll talk about whether it could happen again.

SIDNER: Wow. OK. Well, we'll be watching.

HILL: I appreciate that, my friend. Thank you.

SIDNER: Erica Hill, thank you. And speaking of watching, be sure to tune in to "The Reign Begins: Charles and Camilla" airs this Sunday at 8:00 eastern on "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper". And watch the coronation of King Charles on Saturday, May 6th, right here on CNN. John.

BERMAN: I cannot wait for Erica's report.

A flooding threat along the Mississippi River. Parts of the Midwest on high alert as the river nears its crest.

And a wave of deadly missile strikes across Ukraine. At least 21 people killed. We are live on the scene as bodies are recovered.

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