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SC & Nebraska Fail To Pass More Restrictive Abortion Measures; At Least 23 Killed In Russian Missile Attack On Apartment Building; Mike Pence Testifies For 5 Hours Before Grand Jury. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 28, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:47]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Republican pushback, strict abortion bans fail in South Carolina and Nebraska because conservative lawmakers wouldn't fall in line. Are some Republicans beginning to worry that these types of bans might hurt them in 2024?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: River rising, the Midwest bracing for major flooding. Melting winter snow pushing the Mississippi River beyond its banks, now warnings of the worst flooding in decades in some areas.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, at least 25 people are dead after large-scale missile attacks across Ukraine, the deadliest strikes in nearly two months. Officials say they expect the death toll to climb. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: Two deep red states have just experienced what could be an abortion ban backlash and it's coming from conservatives. Republican dissenters in both Nebraska and South Carolina blocked passage of laws that would have banned nearly all abortions and the stalled votes happened within hours of each other. South Carolina, five female state senators filibustered against the bill that led to its rejection. Earlier, one of those senators told Boris about the fight for a middle ground.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PENRY GUSTAFSON (R-SC): I do not think we have a right to abortion, but we may not have a right, but it is the reality. And I've always said it needs to be legal, safe and rare - really rare. But there's got to be some gray area because life is not simply black and white. I recognize that and over 70 percent of South Carolina recognizes that. Most of us feel in our state there should be restrictions.

So it's just reaching a happy middle or at least a general consensus among the bodies. And the South Carolina House will not accept our stance, the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Well, in Nebraska, a six-week abortion ban failed there by a single vote after one Republican again, abstained. Check out the relief seen afterwards from those who oppose the ban, the footage tweeted out by a Democratic state senator.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher, she's been covering this for us.

So Dianne, walk us through what went into the calculation here, particularly among these Republican legislators who fought their own parties - their own party on this bill.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, look, for a lot of people, this is quite astonishing. You have these two conservative states both failing to pass these severe abortion restrictions and it's just by a one vote margin, both in Nebraska and in South Carolina, where a total ban on abortion from the moment of conception with extremely limited exceptions for rape and incest.

[15:05:03]

Well, look, that was blocked by the Republican majority state Senate after, again, the only five women in the Senate, three of whom are Republicans, led a filibuster. It is the third time, though, that they have done this in the state Senate in South Carolina since the Dobbs ruling last summer.

It essentially killed these bills that offer these full abortion bans. And in their filibuster speeches, they talked impassioned about biology, and backlash and the concept of control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KATRINA FRYE SHEALY (R-SC): Once a woman became pregnant for any reason, she would now become property of the state of South Carolina if the 'Human Life Protection Act' were to come into law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Look, in Nebraska, it was a ban on abortion at about six weeks often before a person knows that they are pregnant. And it was when two senators abstained from a vote to break the filibuster. Jim, one of those senators was actually a co-sponsor of the bill, an 80- year-old senator.

He said that he basically did more research. He offered an amendment that would have made it 12 weeks as the limit. That never got a vote.

In his speech, he warned of backlash, something that, look, has been felt by Republicans nationally. Conservatives once championed banning abortions as sort of a campaign cornerstone, but shifting public opinion, coupled with the Supreme Court making these outright bans a possibility with the Dobbs ruling, has challenged these hard-line positions as, look, their supporters have said it's time for you to sort of say what you're doing. You can do what you've always said, while others agree that it has just gone too far, according to polling. SCIUTTO: Well, I mean, let's be frank here. Six weeks was considered fairly extreme in this country. Many women don't know they're pregnant in six weeks, but South Carolina talking about banning at conception, which, prior to Dobbs, I don't know how many folks would have thought that was even a realistic proposal, but here we are.

Dianne Gallagher, thanks so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: Jim, we are bracing for serious flooding in the Midwest. The winter's heavy snows have melted. They are pushing the upper Mississippi River beyond its banks and experts are warning that the snow melt could cause some of the worst flooding that we've seen in 20 years.

In Davenport, Iowa, floodwaters have already swallowed much of the riverfront area. You can see it in these pictures. Here is the view from the ground just a short time ago. So far, the floodwaters are not deep, but they are widespread and the threat along the river, it's going to linger for weeks.

Another danger today, tornadoes. Let's turn to Chad Myers who's following all of this from our Weather Center. We're looking at two threats, different parts of the country here. What are you tracking?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Right now, I'm tracking the tornadoes that were likely on the ground just a few minutes ago near Hamilton, Texas. We have our first two watches of the day. Severe thunderstorm watch for Dallas and a tornado watch south of there, including Waco.

This storm right here that you see with a little pink boxes, which means tornado warning, was nothing to 52,000 feet tall in 25 minutes. That's how explosive these storms are going to be today. And we're going to have hail and we're going to have large hail.

So even though you're under a tornado watch, Waco, you're also going to be looking at that hail just depending on where you are in the cycle of the storm. Hail that looked like this on Wednesday. It's a guy's hand. He's sitting in the passenger side of a car.

So here's where we are right now. Storms are beginning to fire south of Dallas, maybe even just west of Dallas as well. Later on, it begins to move to the east and they're still rotating. But by later on tonight, they begin to line up and when storms line up, they kind of fight each other and they don't want to rotate anymore. They just want to make a wind gust.

So as we line these up, the wind gust threat goes up, the tornado threat goes down. But for right now, we are certainly in that tornado threat. River flooding up here to the north, as you said. The entire Mississippi from really almost Davenport all the way up to Eau Claire (ph) and even towards St. Paul, out of its banks in many spots.

It doesn't mean it's deep in many spots, but certainly wide - how wide that Mississippi can get, as you see miles and miles wide in that floodplain.

KEILAR: Yes. And damaging, very damaging.

All right, Chad. We know that you'll keep an eye on this for us, thank you. Boris?

SANCHEZ: We're following a deadly overnight Russian missile attack in Ukraine that stuck various targets across the country. As we've seen time and again in this conflict, civilians ultimately paid the price. The highest casualties were here in the central city of Uman.

A missile partially destroyed a residential building, killing at least 23 people. And that includes four children.

CNN's Nic Robertson is on the scene in Uman.

Nic, this is thought to be the highest number of civilian casualties killed in a missile strike in some months. What are you seeing there now?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. The rescue recovery work is still ongoing late in tonight. The workers here have been at it at about 18 hours now. I'm going to step out of the way.

[15:10:02]

David's (ph) going to be able to go in and take a look at what we're seeing right up there.

The firefighters now on the upper floors earlier on today, they were pulling bodies out of the lower floors, carrying them away. Now they're trying to secure that one firefighter there, he's at the top of the lift shaft (inaudible) up there looking down before.

They need to secure any loose debris there before they can get down to that larger area of debris field where the floors are pancaked in the apartments. And we know from talking to neighbors at least two young girls who may be inside that debris. One of them is 13-year-old - 13 years old, one of them is seven years old.

Their mother, we understand, escaped more or less unharmed. Their father is in hospital. But the neighbors here now just wondering what happened to the two young girls. And the firefighters, they're looking for them. They're looking for other people.

More than half of those 46 apartments were destroyed, 109 people are registered living there. We know - we now know a toll of dead. We now know numbers of injured, 18 injured from the building. But so many people are still unaccounted for.

There are police here doing DNA tests, helping relatives try to find out more about their loved ones. There are police psychologists here helping people who are going through the trauma of having lost family members. There are care workers here handing out clothes to families. There are builders going in some of the other apartments, repairing broken windows, repairing doorframes, making it safe for people to get back into other apartments. But the focus and the effort is going to go through the night here, we're told, to try to recover all the bodies of those missing and bring some kind of solace. But this is the most devastating single missile strike since January this year.

SANCHEZ: A tragic scene there and another example of Russia deliberately apparently attacking civilian targets.

Nic Robertson from Uman, thank you so much.

This is happening as Ukraine's defense minister says that preparations for their long awaited counter offensive are "coming to an end."

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is on the front lines alongside soldiers facing daily conflict with Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Spring is here, after winter's frozen horror. And the buzz and sting of Ukraine's looming counter-offensive is growing.

Aiming at Russian positions within 30 seconds, the Ukrainian unit has moved away. It may be a precise operation, but the Russian response is not.

Slamming into the nearby town edging closer to us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH (on camera): Impossible to tell what the Russians are trying to hit, but another example of the intense bombardment. Their bid to stop the counter offensive from starting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH (voice over): It is ordinary civilians caught in the rising dust behind us, who bear the brunt of Russia's frustrated rage.

Along and around the brutalized towns where Ukraine says it may launch its attack, there are more signs it is underway, lurking in the foliage than Ukraine has given publicly.

That's because Ukraine has said nothing at all about when, where or how it will attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Foreign language).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH (voice over): But among machine gun fire in the nearby trenches, drone operators hidden in the rubble. The detailed intimate picture they have of their enemy, just two fields away, is startling. Watching and trying to kill each other every hour. They have noticed the Russians pulling back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANILO, 1ST TANK BRIGADE DRONE OPERATOR: I doubt with these noises they can hear the drones.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Foreign language).

DANILO: They got smart, they took everything to the rear. Heavy armor and stuff - they don't have it. Sometimes I noticed some real professionalism. They precisely lock the drone with an anti-drone gun and then shoot it with all they got.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Foreign language)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH (voice over): Another drone team has seen the Russians, also left to fend in ruins ridden by chaos in their ranks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMURAI, 1ST TANK BRIGADE DRONE OPERATOR: Often they shoot at each other. They fight amongst themselves too. They live like they do at home. Helicopters shoot at them - their own.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH (voice over): It won't be long until that cunning or chaos meets a decisive test in this flat, open, and perilous space.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:15:05]

WALSH (on camera): Now, along those frontlines, you can get a general sense of anticipation of movement, frankly, building and the feeling that maybe the opening stages, the prelude to this counter offensive may be underway, which is what makes the comments from Ukraine's Defense Minister today quite so intriguing.

Yes, he said preparations are coming to an end, but he said in the global sense, we are already in a high percentage mode. The next question is up to the general military staff. As soon as it's God's will, the weather, which here is vacillated between the rain behind us and intense sunshine and the commander's decision, we will do it.

Now, Ukraine has been very keen to say nothing about when or where or how this offensive may begin, but it does feel like we're edging towards it. It's so utterly important for Kyiv to get some sort of strategic victory before a likely another long, hard winter and the possibility too that its Western backers may get into electoral economic trouble again and decide that they don't want to be quite so effusive in their support. So a lot riding on this offensive. It could be hours, days, maybe weeks the furthest away. Boris?

SANCHEZ: A huge moment for the Ukrainian forces.

Nick Paton Walsh in Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine, thank you so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: Ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, What did Mike Pence, the former vice president share during five hours of testimony? That's how long he spent before a grand jury investigating January 6th. We'll discuss.

Plus, the army admits an error could force pilots to serve three years longer than they were supposed to. We have the latest on that story from the Pentagon.

And new details in a senseless killing in Colorado. What police say three teenagers did after throwing a rock through a young woman's windshield.

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[15:20:59]

SCIUTTO: Five hours really for the history books. That's how long Mike Pence testified to a federal grand jury yesterday. That testimony comes after a judge said the former vice president had to answer questions under oath about conversations he had with then-President Trump on the 2020 election aftermath as well as attempts to overturn it by the former president.

The unprecedented moment, a former VP in the witness chair, testifying about another former president and potential primary opponent as well and this election marks a huge win for the special counsel investigating Trump.

Let's speak now to CNN's Evan Perez and former federal prosecutor, Shan Wu.

Evan, first, we don't know what he said inside that room, but five hours is quite some time to be answering these questions. How is the Pence team describing this, if at all, and how is the Trump team receiving this?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the Pence team, first of all, they're not even acknowledging that he went in. But you will hear from them that they believe he has nothing to hide. Because this testimony is behind closed doors, once the vice - former vice president is in there, he can answer however he wants.

I mean, if he wants to, say, raise objections and maybe consult his lawyer, he can do that. But if you talk to people around the former president, they distrust what the former vice president was doing in there. They believe that based on what they've seen from his former aides, right, Greg Jacob and Marc Short, who were extremely helpful to the January 6 Committee, they believe that there's reason to distrust that behind closed doors, Mike Pence was a lot more helpful to prosecutors simply because, again, they don't know.

SCIUTTO: Well, he's also speaking under oath, right?

PEREZ: Right.

SCIUTTO: So he's got a pretty big incentive to speak the truth there. Otherwise, he would face legal consequences.

PEREZ: Right, exactly.

SCIUTTO: We've seen people go to jail for that.

Shan Wu, we don't know what was said inside there. We also don't know how far along this investigation is. That said, this is a very high level witness, someone who had direct conversations with the former president in the midst of decisions that are being investigated by the Special Counsel. Significance of his testimony, one, but also what does it tell you about timing as to how far along the investigation is?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, he certainly is a significant witness. I mean, he's there on the day in question. His title and physical position literally make him a very good witness. I think my take on this is - in some ways - it's a return more to normalcy for a criminal investigation, that these attempts to completely wall off witnesses just by their title is failing and it keeps failing in the courts.

And even to completely wall them off just by topic, without getting to the actual questioning, that's failing too. I mean, that's the way it more normally works, which is someone responds to subpoena and then depending on the question and topic, they may raise an objection. And as Evan was pointing out in the grand jury, they don't have their lawyer there, but they're free to run outside and immediately consult with them.

SCIUTTO: Well, that's a good point, because this argument - the former president has used executive privileged communications more times than I can count to try to block testimony. But you're making the point that in effect that has failed and that the courts are winning out on this issue, demanding testimony where needed.

WU: Yes. And really it's the prosecutors and the special prosecutor in particular is winning on this point. That doesn't mean they get a slam-dunk case ...

SCIUTTO: Sure, of course.

WU: ... but it means they can proceed the way they should, because they always build things question by question, topic by topic. So at least they're beginning to get to that stage now.

SCIUTTO: Fair enough.

WU: And in terms of timing, their middle and I don't know.

SCIUTTO: Okay, fair enough. Well, make it safe ...

WU: Right. SCIUTTO: ... spread your bets. Evan, you mentioned before, I mean, Pence is a significant witness. You mentioned others such as Marc Short, who've already testified. Who else do we have a sense of who else might be on the DOJ's list?

PEREZ: Well, look, I mean, I think the fact that the former vice president went in to do this testimony is a huge deal. But looming, perhaps even more large in this investigation is Mark Meadows.

[15:25:01]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: The former vice president, obviously, was privy to some very important conversations, including on January 6 from the former president as he was trying to pressure him to try to not certify the election. But Mark Meadows was in a lot more of these conversations, including not only the pressure campaign of the states, but Meadows himself was doing things on his own.

And that's why he has, perhaps, I think everyone believes, some criminal exposure himself. And that raises the odds for him to - certainly the pressure for him to make sure he is very helpful as much as he can to the prosecutors.

SCIUTTO: Right.

PEREZ: So if you're the prosecutors, Mark Meadows is perhaps even more important from this investigation. And I'll venture a guess, I think the investigation is a lot further along, a lot closer to the end than the middle.

SCIUTTO: Okay. I'm just writing that down. You say middle too late and he says a lot closer to the end and we'll take the cash bets later.

Evan Perez, Shan Wu, thanks so much to both of you. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Still to come, the crisis in Sudan getting worse as new images reveal just how dangerous it is to stay or leave.

And the army admitting some of its aviators may have to serve three extra years because of an error. That story is next.