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Russia Claims Drone Attack On Kremlin, Unverified Videos Purport To Show Attack On Kremlin; Police Capture Man Accused Of Killing 9-Year-Old, Four Adults; House Dems Take Key Step To Force Vote On Debt ceiling Hike; Migrants Arrive In NYC On Bus Sent By Texas Governor Abbott. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 03, 2023 - 9:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: What are the chances that they are teeing up the possibility, however small, to use nuclear weapons from what you see in this language and from what you know about what has happened over time in Russia?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I've got no indication that they're any closer today to using nuclear weapons than they were yesterday. But frankly, I'm just quite taken aback by this video that we're playing now for the first time.

I mean, that -- you know, I was of the understanding of these drones landed close by the Kremlin Palace, but it looks to me like they're landing right on top of it. I mean, that, if I'm not mistaken, is the Grand Kremlin Palace, which is behind the red walls of the citadel of the Kremlin itself, and right at the very center, sort of literally and symbolically of the Russian state.

And so if that is indeed a drone, as it looks to be, hitting the flag on the top of the Grand Kremlin Palace, I mean, that is an extraordinary -- an extraordinary scene to be witnessing, and obviously will be seen as horrifying for not just the Kremlin, and not for the officials of Russia, but people all around the country, that if they believed that they weren't going to be touched by this war, if they believed it was at arm's length, well, that is a very potent visual illustration. That is no longer the case.

In terms of, well, are the Kremlin going to use nuclear weapons in response to this? Well, I don't think the calculus necessarily changes. It may well be an escalation. They may be prepared to launch, you know, significant attacks, perhaps to target the Ukrainian leader. They've tried in the past to kill him. And, you know, there's no reason to suspect they won't try in the future. And if this is the justification they need, then fair enough.

But, you know, look, if Russia uses a nuclear weapon, even a small tactical weapon on the battlefield in Ukraine, it doesn't necessarily advance its military objectives. That calculus will not have changed. And it may will alienate the country even further from what's left of the allies it does have. I mean, China has made it quite clear. And I know this from the sources I've spoken to Ukraine, about the conversation that the Chinese leader had with President Zelenskyy, I think it was last week, when he basically -- or the week before, when he said, look, you know, we are totally against the use of nuclear weapons and the threat of nuclear weapons against other states, but particularly states who themselves are not in the possession of nuclear weapons.

And that came to me from a trusted source inside the presidential administration. So if the Kremlin were to take that step, and to use nuclear weapons, it would risk alienating the most important ally, China, that it has in the world right now, not to mention the other countries like India and some African countries as well, that may well distance themselves from the Kremlin if they went down the nuclear line.

But I mean, clearly, again, this is astonishing scenes from the nighttime in Moscow with that explosion taking place on the dome of the Grand Kremlin Palace, again, right in the center of the Russian state.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Matthew, continue on that theme for a second there. And I want to make clear, this video has been showing you, CNN cannot independently verify the veracity of what we've all been looking at there. So this is circulating on Russian social media. There's another view which we show.

And also, the Kremlin is, what, roughly about 70 acres, a little bit less than that. Describe where this is taking place, the significance of that building, and just the compound for Americans who may not have been there.

CHANCE: Yes. Well, look, I mean, Russia, for many centuries, has been organized around this citadel, this Kremlin, which basically means citadel, and it's this red brick wall which sits geographically right in the center of the Russian capitol, and is, as I say, the symbolic center of power for the entire country.

There are lots of buildings inside that quite large compound, as you say, there are churches, cathedrals, there are various offices. The main building is a yellow structure, a grand palace, it's called the Grand Kremlin Palace. And that's where Vladimir Putin's offices are, for instance, and his staff and, you know, where many of his kind of presidential administration, you know, kind of helpers are located as well.

He has an apartment there. He has offices there. It's obviously very heavily fortified. It's right on the banks of the -- of the Moscow River, which is just a few meters away from the -- those red walls that surround it.

And so in many ways, it is the cultural and political center of the entire nation. And the fact that there's a strike like this, if that video is indeed confirmed as being accurate, is -- I mean, absolutely astonishing not just to me, I expect, but to everybody in Russia and around the region that will be watching this right now.

[09:35:08] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And so, NPW, let me -- let me bring you back in on that, how the Russian people will react to this, again, claims of an attempt -- attempted drone strike in the Kremlin is one thing. I wonder also how the Ukrainian people will respond in seeing this social media video circulating.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: I think there is possibly some nervousness because of those who follow how Russia behaves, wondering what this might indeed herald them. We're not going to know for days possibly, whether this is a rare lapse in security in Moscow or part of a wider messaging plan from the Kremlin to try and convince their public that their president has indeed been targeted. And that has, in fact, failed.

I should point out, we are still very lacking in evidence outside of this Kremlin statements that this incident did, in fact, occur. But certainly in Ukraine, too, there may be some who have experienced air raid sirens, there apparently is one in Kyiv right now. We had one throughout the night in Zaporizhia, Dnipro where I'm standing constant. The Zaporizhia siren punctuated by explosions last night.

Ukrainians, ordinary Ukrainians, living every day with the possibility that a missile fired by Russia may randomly hit the civilian area where they are in fact asleep. And so it's important to remember that when Ukrainians view this puff of smoke, possibly emerging from over the Kremlin, their sympathies will, of course, be very limited.

And so I think that feeds into the culture of utter hatred we're seeing on both sides here. And it's important also to point out how Putin fits into all of this dynamic. It was his decision to launch the war, despite possibly some advice that it wouldn't have been a good idea. It was certainly his decision to persist in this way.

And so there are many indeed arguing that he represents the issue for the Russian people as the head of the Russian Federation. And it is his decisions that led them down this path where I should point out, U.S. -- senior U.S. official, just in the last 72 hours, said that since December, claiming -- pointing at U.S. intelligence have been declassified, 100,000 Russians had been killed or wounded on the battlefield in Ukraine. And that's a startling number if it indeed proves to be the case.

And so that is feeding into the daily lives of many Russians who will see this attack on the Kremlin as, yes, a sign that possibly if they are a fan of the Russian president, that he has indeed been threatened and Russia may need to retaliate at the same statement that makes this claim goes on to suggest.

Remember, they're very clear about the need to retaliate or the fact they reserve the right to retaliate. And at the same time, their claim attempt on the life of Vladimir Putin has indeed been made. There'll be others who say, well, how far has Russia fallen? Indeed, we can see over the Kremlin's walls itself a puff of smoke like this, if indeed, this video is to be believed or not.

And then others, of course, too who will just hope this ends. There are so many civilians we speak to here who are caught in this daily nightmare of explosions randomly landing in the residential where is where they are, and hope that Ukraine's counter offensive imminent as it is, may push Russia back and bring an element of peace back to a country which over a year ago was, after an eight years war in a limited area, from vast majority of people here living in peace.

SIDNER: Matthew Chance, I have a question to you, since you've spent so much time and have just left Moscow a just a couple of weeks ago, how you see this playing out inside the Kremlin with Vladimir Putin. What is it that the Russians are going to do wants to secure him if indeed they are correct that this is an attack from Ukraine?

CHANCE: Well, I mean, look, there's already tight security in Moscow in general, and specifically around the Kremlin. And even more specifically now around the Kremlin, because we're just six days away from the most important commemoration in the calendar year in Russia, the Victory Day Parade.

And so I would just sitting here watching this wondering whether, in fact this Victory Day Parade, which has already been scaled back, as I think we've been discussing already, may actually not go ahead at all.

I mean, if the Russians are right, and the Ukrainians are able to get drones to explode on the Kremlin, then what would stop them from flying those same drones into the military parade when it takes place on May the 9th? And I think that will be something that the Russian security services, if this is real, will be grappling with, right now, furiously as we speak, because it's just behind that building, you know, like a 20, 30 meters away from where that explosion took place, if that video is correct.

The thousands of Russian troops, columns of Russian armor, will be parading past Vladimir Putin and the high command of the Russian military on May the 9th giving that official salute. And so that presents itself clearly now as a vulnerable target to individuals, to groups to perhaps it's Ukraine, who knows, or they -- of course, Ukraine denies any association with this, if they wanted to carry out a devastating strike.

[09:40:18]

And again, there's not going to be, and I think Nick was saying this, there's not going to be a lot of sympathy in Ukraine or in the surrounding region or of critics of the war inside Russia to the fact this has happened given the devastation that's been brought up on Ukraine over the course of the past year and a bit. And so this is minor compared to what Ukrainians have suffered. And there are many people in the region who will see this as utterly justified.

BERMAN: Matthew Chance, Nick Paton Walsh, standby, don't go far. We're going to do a little reporting here. One thing I want to point out the eagle eye Kate Bolduan noted, you can actually see the parade stand.

BOLDUAN: It was something that looks like parade stand right before --

BERMAN: It looks like a parade stand.

BOLDUAN: Kind of the foreground of that video that we're looking at.

BERMAN: OK. The context here once again, Russian state media is claiming there has been a drone -- attempted drone attack on the Kremlin. Ukraine official spokesperson denies that they launched any kind of attack there. This is happening in the middle of a ton of events in the region, an unexpected Ukrainian counter offensive, the Russian Victory Day Parade. There was a lot going on. We're going to keep you posted on this throughout the next several hours.

In the meantime, the man accused of killing five of his neighbors in Texas, including a 9-year-old boy has been captured after a four-day manhunt. He was not the only one arrested.

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[09:45:02]

BOLDUAN: This morning, a manhunt in Texas is over after law enforcement arrested this man, Francisco Oropesa. He's accused of shooting and killing five people last week, including a woman and her 9-year-old son.

Now this accused killer was captured hiding in a home just miles away from the massacre. Law enforcement say Oropesa was caught hiding in a closet underneath laundry. The FBI says a call to its tip line is what helped. It came in at 5:15 last night, led them to the suspect and he was under arrest very quickly after that tip came in, around 6:30 P.M.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is on the scene. He's been following this. Ed, you were at that press conference this morning where we learned more detail surrounding Oropesa's arrest and you've now also just learned of additional arrests. What -- tell us more.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. You know, last night we learned the news that Francisco Oropesa was arrested at that resident, that residence about 10 miles away from where the murders took place.

This morning, sheriff's deputies here in San Jacinto County saying, quote, several more arrests have been made. They won't specify exactly the number and just exactly who has been arrested, but we have been able to confirm this morning that one of the people arrested is a woman by the name of Divimara Nava, and she is the longtime partner of Francisco Oropesa.

According to a source that knows the family, they have been together a long time. They share a child together who is in fifth grade, and that that woman was arrested at the same location where Francisco Oropesa was arrested last night. She has been charged with hindering the apprehension of a fugitive. She is in the Montgomery county jail, which is the neighboring county from San Jacinto and also the county where the arrest took place last night.

What is interesting is that we actually have witnessed, over the last couple of days, this woman coming and going from the house that where she lived with the suspect there just outside of Cleveland, Texas. She wouldn't talk to us. She actually went to great lengths to cover up her face so that we could not see her.

And the law enforcement sources told CNN that she had been surveilled by investigators for several days. And all of this kind of leading to this arrest.

A couple other tidbits of information, Kate, sheriff's deputies here also saying that they were able to discover that Francisco Oropesa had another cell phone. And in the days while he was on the run, he was actually communicating with other people that he knew.

So at this point, it sounds like other people have been arrested. We haven't been able to confirm the exact number or what relation or who exactly those people are. But this is clearly an investigation, Kate, that continues to develop here throughout the day.

BOLDUAN: And one that's widening, not narrowing as they -- as they now have their suspect behind bars. Ed, great reporting. Thank you so much. Sara.

SIDNER: This morning, top House Democrat Hakeem Jeffries is making moves to sidestep Speaker McCarthy and force a vote to raise the debt ceiling. While Jeffries doesn't need McCarthy, he does need a majority. But the math is not adding up, all 213 House Democrats need five Republicans to force a vote to the floor, but there is zero GOP interest at least publicly.

Meantime, the June 1st deadline to avert economic catastrophe keeps inching closer. Let's go live now to Capitol Hill where Melanie Zanona is with lawmakers. Can you tell us about this plan that Jeffries has?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes. Democrats have been quietly preparing for this emergency backup plan for months, but Jeffries took the first steps yesterday to set that plan in motion. He's trying to file something called a discharge petition. That is a procedural tool that allows the minority party to force a floor vote on a bill without the blessing of the Republican leadership as long as they get 218 signatures, which in this case means they would need the support of five Republicans.

[09:50:07]

But Manu Raju and I surveyed some of the moderate Republicans, Republicans and swing districts, the type of Republicans you would think would want to potentially make a deal. And so far, none of them are interested.

Don Bacon, he represents a district that Biden carried in Nebraska told us, he has no appetite for a my way or the highway stamps of Biden and Jeffries. So it appears that at this point, this emergency off-ramp is not workable.

And other ideas that have been floated such as passing a short-term debt ceiling patch to give themselves more time to work out a deal, also doesn't have support. So, really, it is going to come down to President Biden and Speaker McCarthy to work out some sort of deal ahead of this June 1st deadline. Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you so much. Melanie Zanona there live from Capitol Hill. John.

BERMAN: So new this morning, a bus with 41 migrants just arrived in New York City sent by the governor of Texas. And this is coming as immigration officials brace for an influx at the southern border. We're just eight days away from Title 42 coming to an end. That policy had allowed U.S. officials to deny entry and return migrants to Mexico very quickly almost immediately.

CNN's Rosa Flores is in El Paso, Texas that is a city under a state of emergency. First though, let's go to CNN's Polo Sandoval in New York.

Polo, what have you been seeing in terms of this one bus so far arriving, but I understand there are more coming.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With another one expected in the coming hours, John, it is an important point out to viewers that this is really the same method of operation that we saw from Texas Governor Greg Abbott late last year, when he tapped into state funds to offer these free rides to asylum seekers that had been processed by federal authorities in 2,000 miles away on the border and then released.

And so what we saw today was him basically picking up where he left off late last year. His position is that his goal is to provide some form of relief to some of these Texas communities that have been struggling to keep their head above water in terms of the migrant influx that they're facing. But the criticism here in New York is certainly the obvious political theater of it all.

Many of his critics saying that he continues to use people as political pawns, but this is also really important. The arrivals that we've seen on Abbott charter buses, they're really just a fraction of the roughly two to 300 asylum seekers a day that arrived here in New York City.

That bus that pulled up earlier this morning was transporting about 41 men, women and children. And, again, we do expect another bus later today. But the concern is that even one bus would certainly compound the situation for New York City that has been struggling to keep its financial head above water with close to 60,000 asylum seekers since last spring. And this is with Title 42 restrictions in place.

The concern in the days ahead, John, is with that no longer in the way as a restriction, and those numbers will continue to increase and the city will have no place to put these families that arrived here, and whether they are sent up by Abbott, or they come here on their own was it -- which is the majority of them.

BERMAN: And, Rosa Flores, you are in El Paso where you've been showing us extraordinary pictures over the last 24 hours. There is already an uptick in migrants coming over the border even in anticipation of this. What are you seeing this morning? ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, you're absolutely right, there are hundreds of migrants here on the streets. Walk with me and I'll show you because you can see this on both sides of the street. Migrants have been sleeping here around this church that is also a shelter, but capacity at the shelter is only 120 to 130 people.

The priest here tells us that they give priority to women with young children and pregnant women. And so that's why you're seeing this overflow of migrants. The city of El Paso is in a state of emergency. Now you see a lot of trash here right now. Well, that's going to change here in the coming hours, because under that disaster declaration, the city of El Paso passes by with a sanitation crew twice a day to make sure that all the trash is picked up, all of the cardboard and the blankets that are dirty are also tossed in the trash.

One of the biggest concerns for the city of what city officials are saying is public safety and public health. Now, John, you were mentioning Title 42 is still in effect. It allows immigration agents to quickly return migrants back to Mexico. So then why are we seeing this surge now from talking to migrants here and officials on both sides of the border? I can tell you that there are tens of thousands more migrants waiting in northern Mexican cities to cross into the United States and a lot of them have grown impatient, and so they decided to cross the border, some by turning themselves into immigration authorities. But, John, others have decided to cross the border illegally. And so that's what you're seeing here. There's a mixture of a mixed status.

[09:55:00]

And back to what Polo was just talking about, the political theater of Governor grab at Greg Abbott and the busing of migrants to northern cities, these people don't have any money. They wish there was an avid bus that could take them to their final destination. That's not the case. John.

BERMAN: Rosa Flores in El Paso. We know you're going to be there reporting. This could be a dramatic period of time there. Polo Sandoval here in New York City, our thanks to you. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Coming up for us, Russia now claiming Ukraine tried to assassinate President Putin in a drone attack. Ukraine, denying any involvement and says it has no information on any alleged attack like that. We have much more on that breaking news, including the unverified video now circulating. A spokesperson for President Zelenskyy in Ukraine now calling this whole thing a trick. That's ahead.

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