Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Choke Hold Victim Dies on New York Subway; Ed Sheeran Wins Copyright Infringement Trial; Attacks on Kyiv; Atlanta Shooting Suspect Arrested; Guilty Verdicts in Proud Boys Trial. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 04, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:41]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A verdict in the Proud Boys trial. Four out of the five members of the far right group facing seditious conspiracy charges were found guilty, while all five were found guilty of conspiracy to obstruct Congress, all of this related to their roles in the January 6 insurrection.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: A high-tech manhunt ends with an arrest. Police track down the suspect in a deadly Atlanta shooting with a network of cameras and an old-fashioned tip from the public. The suspect's mother's speaking out this morning about the shooting as well.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: And the worst wave of attacks on Ukraine so far this year. Kyiv repelled a barrage of strikes from Russia, and Russia faces attacks within its own borders after yesterday's drone explosion over the Kremlin. Still unclear who was behind that attack. But the U.S. calls Russia's accusation that Ukraine did it on orders from the U.S. -- quote -- "ridiculous."

We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Four members of the Proud Boys have just been found guilty of seditious conspiracy, jurors deliberating on the fate of five members of the far right extremist group for more than seven days.

And the four who were found guilty on the seditious conspiracy charge were the Proud Boys' chairman, Enrique Tarrio, as well as Zachary Rehl, Joseph Biggs, and Ethan Nordean.

Let's go now to CNN's Katelyn Polantz. She is live outside of the courthouse.

Katelyn, what's the latest from there?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Brianna, just a few hours ago, we did get a verdict from a jury after months of this trial, where the Justice Department has sought to prove that these men agreed upon trying to overthrow the U.S. government.

And the jury found four of those men, the leaders of the Proud Boys, guilty. They are still deliberating related to the fate of one person who has also been already convicted by this jury of things that he did that day on January 6.

But the big centerpiece of this case where prosecutors were trying to prove and they were arguing to the jury that these men came together, they made an agreement, and then they worked toward making sure that there was violence after the 2020 election, that they were radicalizing their followers, and that, on January 6, they had a plan to get not just their followers, but other Trump supporters on the grounds of the National Mall and the U.S. Capitol so revved up that those people would want to overcome the police force and get inside the building.

All of that, the jury does seem to be agreeing with, especially with those verdicts returned related to seditious conspiracy, obstruction, and conspiracy to obstruct the proceeding on January 6. Those are very, very big things for the jury to have found at this point in this case.

They are going to keep deliberating. But I did want to just make and underline exactly how serious this seditious conspiracy charge is. It's not one that the Justice Department brings often. And it's certainly one that is difficult for the Justice Department to secure in court, to have judges allow it to go forward to trial and then have juries find people guilty of it.

And it is a charge that says that the Justice Department has to prove there was a conspiracy to overthrow, put down or destroy by force the U.S. government to levy war potentially against the government, to oppose by force the authority of the United States or by force to prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law.

That is the charge now that four members of the Proud Boys have been found guilty of -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, very serious, Katelyn.

Katelyn, thank you so much.

I want to bring in former U.S. attorney Michael Moore. He is also a partner at Moore Hall in Atlanta.

To that point, how novel, Michael, is this verdict?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, I'm glad to be with you all.

It's a novel case to bring. I mean, it's unusual to see the government bring this type of charge. You just don't see it. It's a -- it's sort of an antiquated statute that was used back in Civil War times. And so to bring it now, I mean, it was fitting, I think. The government had a good case. And they have moved forward not just on this put, but on the Oath Keepers case.

[13:05:00] And so you have seen really significant cases and significant outcomes in the trials they have -- they have pursued, and with a mountain of evidence, I might add, that the jury had to consider.

KEILAR: Yes, they sure did.

So, what's next here? Will there be an appeal?

MOORE: I think it's likely there will be an appeal. And I think there are takeaways from the case.

I mean, number one, I did think it took a little bit long for the jury to deliberate, about a week, in the face of that evidence. I think, if you're in the camp of some folks who may be charged later, you may take some comfort in that.

At the same time, the jury found that even one of these defendants who wasn't present at the time, but who was involved in discussions and planning and comments and things, that, in fact, he was guilty of seditious conspiracy.

If you're a prospective defendant in some other cases, you would take no comfort in that, because it looks like you could be charged as well. So, there will be sentencing. There will be an appeal. I think you will see the jury come back in short order with the last defendant to make some decisions.

And, ultimately, I expect probably those convicted will spend a significant amount of time in federal prison.

KEILAR: Does this have any impact on the special counsel's investigation of former President Trump's actions when it relates to January 6?

MOORE: Well, it gives him a shot in the arm. I will say that, the fact that there was a conviction in the case.

You will recall, in the -- in this case with the Proud Boys, actually, some of their lawyers argued that it was Trump's fault, actually told the jury: It's not our people. It was Trump that encouraged this.

Well, the jury found their clients guilty. But it certainly is starting to sort of tie the knot a little bit tighter for Jack Smith as he moves forward with his investigation. And I think, again, it certainly is a -- it looks more favorably today for his investigation, given the guilty verdict than had it been a not guilty.

KEILAR: Michael Moore, always great to have you. Thank you so much -- Jessica.

DEAN: Moscow is pointing the finger at Washington, baselessly claiming the U.S. directed Ukraine to carry out this alleged drone strike on the Kremlin.

Kyiv has also denied involvement. And so has the U.S. Here's what a top White House official told CNN earlier today about this latest assertion from Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NSC COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: There's a word that comes to mind that I'm obviously not -- not appropriate to use on national TV. I would just tell you, Mr. Peskov is lying.

I mean, that's obviously -- it's a ludicrous claim. The United States had nothing to do with this. We don't even know exactly what happened here, Kaitlan, but I can assure you the United States had -- had no role in it whatsoever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Strong words from the administration there.

For Russia, though, it may not matter who did this. Vladimir Putin's forces have already used it as a pretext for retaliation, unleashing a fierce wave of attacks on Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities. Drones that fired on Odessa even had messages on them. Take a look. This reads "From Moscow" and "For the Kremlin."

That's according to the Ukrainian military.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Ukraine.

And, Nick, Kyiv is seeing its worst attacks in months. We know that an oil refinery was hit in Russia. It seems that both sides are really escalating here.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly.

I mean, what we have been seeing over the past three or four days here in Ukraine is an increased tempo of Russian strikes, often hitting civilian areas, as far as we can see. Last night, Kyiv saying that the last three nights are kind of the worst since the year began last night, and many drones taken down out of the sky, not actually hitting targets in the capital.

Similar story over Odessa as well in the south of the country. So, compared to previous nights where we have seen cities across the country with civilian targets hit and loss of life, last night not the worst, but, yesterday, in Kherson city, recently liberated from Russian occupiers, 24 people lost their lives in the shelling of a shopping center and a railway station, clear civilian areas being hit by repeated shelling.

Now, this isn't really, I think, the escalation Ukrainians are worried about. When Russia in that statement, where they presented no evidence, but said there'd been an attempted assassination on the president, said that they reserve the right to retaliate, even today, Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesperson, didn't go into what that wouldn't necessarily mean.

He said that Vladimir Putin was calm and considered after this incident and even referred to how the damage to the Kremlin roof was two bits of copper that probably would get fixed later on today.

So, a lot of concern here about what this may be teeing up in terms of a Russian response, but Ukraine's counteroffensive likely imminent.

DEAN: All right, Nick Paton Walsh with the latest from Ukraine, thanks so much for that update.

And, Jim, now we have got those details, you guys have some analysis over here.

SCIUTTO: Let's try to figure out how credible these claims are.

Joining me now, we have someone who knows a thing or two about this, retired Brigadier General Steve Anderson.

First, to get to this claim that this was a Ukrainian strike on the Kremlin, let's look at the sites of Ukrainian strikes on Russian territory so far. Again, here's the -- here's the border of Ukraine. They have been able to strike Belgorod just a couple dozen miles away from Ukraine, down in Crimea, certainly accessible from Ukrainian territory, also in Krasnodar.

[13:10:16]

This one would be 300 miles into the -- sorry, didn't draw the straight line, but 300 miles in a straight line into Ukrainian territory. How credible is that?

BRIG. GEN. STEVE ANDERSON (RET.), U.S. ARMY: It is not credible, Jim.

Really, there's no way, I think, that the -- the Ukrainian drones would be able to penetrate some of the most sophisticated air defenses in the world 500 miles or so from Kyiv all the way to Moscow. It's just not going to happen.

I mean, that's just not a scenario that's really reasonable.

SCIUTTO: And I imagined those air defenses would be particularly intent on protecting this area up here.

ANDERSON: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ANDERSON: They'd be focused on the Moscow. And they have, again, incredibly efficient and effective air defenses.

The last time that any kind of penetration occurred was in 1987, 35 years ago, with a little Piper Cub that was able to fly in the Red Square, but, since then, it's been locked down pretty tight.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ANDERSON: And, certainly, with a war going on, they're going to be incredibly effective. SCIUTTO: OK, let's look at the strikes. This is where Russia has

struck since this attack on the Kremlin, calling them, in effect, retaliatory strikes.

They have been hitting Kharkiv, certainly a frequent target, of course, close to Russian territory, down here in Kherson, recently taken back from Russia by Ukrainian forces, and, of course, the capital, Kyiv.

A lot of talk about targeting the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Are these attempts to do that?

ANDERSON: They might very well, Jim. I mean, that would be something I'd be very worried about.

The false flag that -- I think that we saw yesterday of attack on the Kremlin, it maybe sets the stage for, hey, look, they went after me, Vladimir Putin saying, now it's my turn to go after Zelenskyy.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ANDERSON: So I would definitely -- if I was on his security detail, Zelenskyy's security, I'd definitely step up my game.

But this is terrorizing the people...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ANDERSON: ... terrorizing the president, something that that's the -- that's how they have been playing this whole thing. And that's our only real play.

SCIUTTO: You mentioned false flag. That would be a Russian attack claiming to be a Ukrainian attack. By the way, Russia attempted several of these when I was in Ukraine at the start of the invasion, which the U.S. intelligence exposed, said, hey, these are not Ukrainian attacks. It's a Russian plan, a propaganda plan here.

We had a remarkable charge made by a former Russian lawmaker who spoke to my colleague Matthew Chance about another possibility for the origin of this attack. Have a listen, and I want to get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are any of these partisans supported by the Ukrainian special services, for instance? Because Ukraine says it's got nothing to do with this attack. Do you believe that claim?

ILYA PONOMAREV, FORMER RUSSIAN DUMA MEMBER: Look, Ukraine indeed has nothing to do with this, because it's all organized by Russians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: He's saying this could be a Russian attack on Russia, partisans, those who oppose the leadership of Vladimir Putin. Credible?

ANDERSON: It's a credible scenario, probably not likely, but it's possible.

I mean, these are large drones. They could have to -- they'd have to hide them in a shipping container or a truck of some sort...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ANDERSON: ... somehow get it close to Moscow, perhaps pull them out, launch them. I mean, those kinds of things could happen.

But I think it's pretty unlikely. I think it's really much a false flag operation that has occurred. And we're seeing the reaction to that.

SCIUTTO: Well, part of that false flag operation would be the follow- on. This is a message from, "For the Kremlin," on one of the Russian drones fired at Ukraine in the wake of all this.

Retired Generals Steve Anderson, thanks so much -- Jessica.

ANDERSON: Thank you, Jim.

DEAN: We have some breaking news to tell you about, a verdict in the copyright trial involving pop singer Ed Sheeran. He's accused of stealing the musical composition of his Grammy-winning song "Thinking Out Loud" from Marvin Gaye's classic "Let's Get It On."

CNN's Chloe Melas is outside the courthouse.

Chloe, what is the verdict?

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Yes.

Well, as you said, the verdict is in, and the jury has found Ed Sheeran not liable. He did not infringe on Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get It On," his 1973 hit. So, the verdict has just come out moments ago. We are waiting for Ed Sheeran, his attorneys and Kathryn Townsend and her attorneys to make their way out.

We're hoping that perhaps they will address reporters right here behind me. But this is a very significant moment for the music industry. Ed Sheeran said when he took the stand in his testimony that this was a common four-chord progression. And attorneys for Ed Sheeran laid it all out over the course of a few days, showing that this four- chord progression that is in "Let's Get It On" that's also in Ed Sheeran's "Thinking Out Loud" was commonplace, that it was in dozens of songs before "Thinking Out Loud" and also in songs that predate "Let's Get It On."

And so Ed Sheeran had said: If you all do this and make it so that every time a musician has to go to the Townsend family to use this four-chord progression, that I'm done. I can't even be a musician anymore. [13:15:05]

And it made a -- they made very strong closing arguments, Ed Sheeran's legal team, saying that this would stifle the creativity of musicians everywhere and that that is not what copyright law is all about. It is to, obviously, protect music and protect one's intellectual property, but, at the same time, allow for creativity.

So it's a big moment. We are expecting Ed Sheeran to hopefully say a few words. And, obviously, this news is just breaking now, so we will keep you posted.

DEAN: All right, Chloe, stand by. We will -- we will check back in with you.

I just want to play the sound bite for everybody. I want to play the music, so they can hear it, and then we're going to go to Areva Martin, our legal commentator. So take a listen at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, again, there's the music in question, and the jury finding Ed Sheeran not liable here.

Let's bring in attorney and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin.

Areva, it's great to see you.

Chloe was just talking about how impactful this is for the music industry, that this really came down to creativity, Ed Sheeran saying, if he can't have that four-chord progression, he can't be creative.

What do you make of this verdict?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I'm not surprised by the verdict, a very difficult case. Obviously, the Townsend family felt very passionate that Ed Sheeran had used the four-chord progression that was in the song that was co-written with Marvin Gaye by their father.

But I think what was impactful for the jury was that Ed Sheeran was able to put on evidence that this four-chord progression was used in songs even before Marvin Gaye and Townsend recorded that very popular song by Marvin Gaye.

And I think that had a big impact on this jury, because, ultimately, if the chord -- the four-chord progression was used before "Let's Get It On," then it's very difficult to make a claim that the Townsend family was entitled to damages for Ed Sheeran using something that had already been used by other musicians.

DEAN: And what do you think this means for copyright cases like this moving forward within the music industry?

MARTIN: These cases are always pretty challenging cases to establish liability, and I think this case will make it even more difficult.

And that was the case that Ed Sheeran and his team was making was that, look, in pop culture -- in pop music, I should say, this four- chord progression is used in lots of songs. And if there had been a determination that he was liable for damages or that this was, in fact, copyright infringement, then you would have seen a slew of losses by lots of artists, and it would have made it very difficult for artists to make songs and to be free from these kinds of losses.

So this is a significant verdict. I think it's a significant verdict for other songwriters as well.

DEAN: Right, really setting that precedent moving forward.

Areva Martin, thanks so much for your expertise. We sure do appreciate it.

Again, Ed Sheeran found not liable in that copyright case -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Jessica, he put one of America's biggest cities on edge for hours, but thanks to some incredible police work, license plate readers and a vigilant citizen, a suspected killer is now in custody. We're going to walk you through a fascinating capture.

Plus: death on the subway. A rider puts another man in a choke hold, and then he dies, much of it caught on video, so far, though, no charges.

We will have details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:22:55]

KEILAR: Today, we're learning more about how police were able to capture this man here, Deion Patterson.

The 24-year-old military veteran is suspected of fatally shooting a woman and injuring four others at a Atlanta medical facility before evading police for nearly eight hours across two counties.

Newly released dispatch audio from the moments after the deadly shooting shows Patterson's mother helping in the search for her son.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

EMERGENCY DISPATCHER: They're now advising an active shooter, a person shot. They're advising female shot. She's seriously really bleeding, shot in the side and the back.

Black male about 6 feet tall wearing a black hoodie. He's going to be the perp, between the ages of 20 and 25, named Deion Patterson.

Caller is still on the phone with 911 advising it's going to be her son.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Nick Valencia is outside the Fulton County jail, where Deion Patterson is being held right now.

Nick, Patterson did waive his right to his first court appearance today. What do we know about the condition of the victims at this point?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, it was last hour, Brianna, that we got an update from the Grady Hospital, where there's three victims, four victims altogether.

Three of them are still in the intensive care unit. A fourth is in stable condition. And of those in the ICU, two of them are expected to go back to the operating table, with the third hopefully stable enough to be released from the ICU. That's according to Grady's chief medical officer.

But perhaps the biggest news from the press conference last hour was that two of those victims were alert enough to speak to the doctor. Now, he said in the press conference that they are obviously traumatized by what happened, but they are also filled with gratitude.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT JANSEN, GRADY HEALTH CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: They have been traumatized. They are very grateful for the support and care they have received.

They realize that this is a horrific event. And the fact that they were in a health care facility just makes it worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Now, since Patterson waived his right to first appearance, we ask, what's next?

He will most likely have another hearing. But that date has not yet been set, Brianna.

[13:25:03]

KEILAR: Nick, the mother of this suspect released a statement. Can you tell us what she's saying?

VALENCIA: Yes, she was an advocate for her son.

But she also led the statement to our local affiliate WANF by apologizing to all those who were touched by yesterday's tragedy.

She did also take time, Brianna, to mention in her statement just how much she believed that mental health was a factor in all of this, saying: "This mental -- mental illness is real. And when we say it's real, from the medical standpoint, it is real. And when someone is saying they need help or you see that they are acting out of sorts, they need help. Help them. Just don't disregard them."

So, you see the focus there being put on mental health by the mother. She did tell our local affiliate here WSB that her son became agitated after being denied a prescription for Ativan, which is an anti-anxiety medication -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Nick Valencia, live for us in Atlanta, thank you so much -- Jessica.

DEAN: Well, no charges at this hour in a case the Manhattan DA calls a -- quote -- "rigorous homicide investigation."

A 30-year-old man was put in a choke hold and died Monday. And we want to warn you that this video we're about to show you is very disturbing. A source says the man with the white T-shirt was homeless, his name, Jordan Neely. The witness who took this video said Neely had been -- quote -- "acting erratically."

And that's when another subway writer came up from behind and put him in that choke hold for at least three minutes. Neely was later pronounced dead at the hospital. CNN has not confirmed what happened before that video was taken.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is joining us now.

And, Omar, before you give us details, we know you just got some new information about this victim, Jordan Neely. Tell us.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jessica.

So this happened at the subway stop behind me. But part of what we're learning is, a witness is saying that, based on what he saw, there's no way that these two would have interacted before this actually unfolded.

And that's because this witness says, as soon as Neely entered the subway car, he began yelling almost immediately. And, according to this witness, he was yelling: "I don't care if I die. I don't care if I go to jail. I don't have any food. I'm done."

Not long after, that's when the witness says that this other passenger came up behind Jordan Neely and put him in a choke hold that, at the very least, lasted several minutes. And once the train stopped, passengers ran off.

And this witness says, despite any of the frightening behavior, is how he described it, that was happening beforehand, he didn't see Neely specifically attack anyone before this happened. But, nevertheless, Neely eventually lost consciousness, was later pronounced dead.

The medical examiner classified that death as being because of the compression of the neck. As you mentioned, no charges have been filed at this point, but a law enforcement source is telling CNN this man has been interviewed and was released and that all of this is part of an investigation.

I should also mention, a law enforcement source says this man is a 24- year-old former Marine with no apparent criminal record, Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Omar Jimenez, thanks so much for that update. We sure do appreciate it -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, we are watching the markets, and Dow stocks dropping hundreds of points, close to 300 points now, as concerns grow about regional banks.

Ahead, what the degree of concerns are and what this all means for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:00]