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Jury Reaches Verdict On Some Of Remaining Charges; Jury Reaches Verdict On Remaining Seditious Conspiracy Charge; 4 OF 5 Proud Boys Defendants Found Guilty Of Seditious Conspiracy. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 04, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In a huge win for the Justice Department, a jury just found four members of the Proud Boys guilty of seditious conspiracy, including the group's leader Enrique Tarrio. All of this related to their roles in the January 6th insurrection.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Baseless lies, the Biden administration is blasting Moscow's claim that the U.S. is somehow tied to yesterday's drone explosion near the Kremlin. Now Russia is seeking revenge even using drones itself to attack Ukraine with the words "for Moscow" written on them. We're live from the battlefield.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And a mysterious illness, a Detroit public school forced to shut down after reports of a spike in illnesses among young students stricken with flu-like symptoms. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

DEAN: From insurrection to conviction, a major day for justice coming two years and three months after the attack on the nation's capitol. Some of the most serious offenders charged with the most serious violations were just found guilty.

These four members of the far-right group, the Proud Boys, are guilty of seditious conspiracy for trying to forcibly stop the peaceful transfer of power after the 2020 election. After deliberating for more than seven days, the federal jury convicted Ethan Nordean, Joseph Biggs, Zachary Rehl and most notably, Enrique Tarrio of the charge.

Tarrio is considered the ringleader of the group and was not in Washington the day extremists invaded the Capitol, incited by former President Trump's lies that the election was stolen from him.

CNN's Sara Sidner has been following this trial since it started several months ago.

And Sara, this capitol riot investigation has been huge with more than a thousand arrests. Help us put these guilty verdicts into perspective today out of everything that's happened since that January 6th. SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a really big

moment, particularly for the DOJ, but also for the country and those that experienced this fear of having their lives put in jeopardy during the riot. That was the attack on the Capitol on January 6th.

There are five members of the Proud Boys who are on trial. Four of them, a jury decided they were guilty of seditious conspiracy.

And remember what seditious conspiracy means. It means that they were trying to stop the peaceful transfer of presidential power by going in and trying to stop Congress from doing its due diligence and its duty. They wanted to keep President Donald Trump at the time in power and keep president elect-Biden out of power at the time on January 6th, 2021.

The jurors, though, interestingly, in this case, they failed to reach a decision on a seditious conspiracy charge for one of the defendants and they were working on that. And we're just getting new information coming in.

The only person that was not found guilty for seditious conspiracy was one of the defendants whose name is Dominic Pezzola. Now, he has also been convicted of other counts that are very serious. But the most serious charge is the seditious conspiracy charge.

The jury was having a very hard time with that particular charge. And I will tell you, you see his picture there. But he is going to be remembered as the person who broke through the window of the Capitol.

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The first to do so that led a flood of people in through that broken window and we have all seen the video over and over again over these many, many months. You see that video there taken by a live streamer who was right there getting it.

That is Pezzola and he is holding a police officer's shield that he grabbed from an officer at some point and then is slamming it into the window. And then you see as people rush in. He has been convicted in some of the cases.

There are 10 charges, but he - he the jury is still struggling - has been struggling with some of those charges. And we now hear that on some of those charges, the jury has told the judge they're just basically at a deadlock.

And so we will have to wait and see as to whether they have been able to come up with whether or not they find him guilty or not guilty ...

DEAN: All right.

SIDNER: ... of seditious conspiracy. But they have found him guilty of other things as well as the other four members there.

DEAN: I mean, Sara, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I'm being told we do have an update on that. I want to go to Katelyn Polantz. Stand by for us, we're going to come back to you. She is outside the courthouse. And Katelyn, you've got new information.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right. So the jury is in the room with the judge right now. And there are a - there is a discussion going on, on what is going to be happening.

Now, what we do understand from two reporters we have there is that there is additional verdicts, at least one additional verdict on some of those charges that the jury was not able to come to a conclusion on. Although there are other things that the jury is now telling the judge they haven't been able to get a unanimous agreement on and they probably won't.

That doesn't mean deliberations are over. The big picture here when you step back, though, when you look at this is that the Justice Department has locked up convictions. They have locked up, the - finding four for leaders of the Proud Boys guilty of seditious conspiracy and others guilty of other serious charges conspiracy, obstruction, rioting on the Capitol, assaulting police, taking a riot shield.

Those are all very, very serious counts put together and it is quite a significant moment for the Justice Department to be able to bring this case to this conclusion after so many attempts by this defense team to get this case thrown out, to get a mistrial declared or to get the jury somehow derailed from finding these men guilty.

DEAN: And Katelyn, you alluded to this, but being found guilty of seditious conspiracy is such a rare thing. We don't see that much. We don't see those charges much. Help put into context, how rare some of all of this is to see not only these charges being put forth, but these men being found guilty of them.

POLANTZ: This is not something that you see, not even every day. You barely even see it every decade. Though, in the past, the Justice Department had tried to bring it against militia members. It had not survived in court, was tossed out on the law.

But seditious conspiracy was something that the Justice Department decided that they thought they could prove and they have proven with multiple juries now against members of the Oath Keepers, that right- wing group of many former military police who came to the Capitol on January 6 and were led by Stewart Rhodes, the leader there and then now with the Proud Boys, another right-wing group.

And they were able to prove with this seditious conspiracy case two things, that there was an agreement among these four men, at least, that they did want to take part in violence, that they wanted to get people interested in politics and then were so angered by the result of the 2020 election that they wanted to then try and overthrow the U.S. government or block or hinder the laws of the U.S. government. A very, very significant accusation.

At the end of the day, it carries a similar possibility of prison time to other counts that these men are charged with. But just the decision alone by the Justice Department to bring a seditious conspiracy case here and to be able to secure it, to secure the guilty convictions by this jury. That is a big deal.

DEAN: Yes, it sure is. All right. Katelyn, stand by. Thank you so much for that update.

Let's go back to Sara Sidner.

Again, Sara, you've been covering these cases since they really began for months and months now. I want to get your reaction to what Katelyn just updated us with. But also, I would love for you to walk us through Enrique Tarrio, who's the leader of the Proud Boys, who was convicted. He wasn't even there that day and that seems pretty extreme as well, pretty momentous.

SIDNER: So it is momentous. He is no longer the president of the Proud Boys and he had actually relinquished that role before he was charged in this case.

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But the fact that he wasn't there made no difference clearly to this jury and to the prosecutors who said, this is about the planning and plotting the conspiracy, if you will, to try and stop the peaceful transfer of power. And what they showed and the jury agreed with is enough evidence to show that that was true, that there was a plot or a plan to try and do this, to try and go into the Capitol using some kind of force to keep the peaceful transfer of power, the presidential power from happening. And they used all sorts of things.

They used any kind of communication between him and others. They also used some of the communications that were public, that were on his Telegram channel or that were on his social media. Some of the words that he used they used against him. And they did that with each and every one of those five members of the Proud Boys.

It is significant, though, that he was not there. He did not take part in the riots. He was actually banned from being in D.C. at the time, because he had burned a Black Lives Matter flag that was hanging on a church and was carrying some magazines that were - some firearm magazines that were illegal in D.C.

And so a judge told him that he was not allowed to come back into the city as that case proceeded. And so here we are on January 6, 2021 and what the prosecutors argued was that he was front and center telling people what to do, where to go, making plans, telling them to wear all - the different colors.

They usually were black and red. They decided not to do that so they could "fit in" and look like "Antifa" in case anything went down. So there's - they're used a lot of their words against them to show - which is what they had to do - to show their plan in this case. But it is a really historic moment.

Remember that the last time you saw this number of defendants together, who were facing seditious conspiracy charges was the Oath Keepers trial, another far-right group that was there during all of this and who faced the same charges. Some of them were convicted, others weren't.

This case for the DOJ was extremely important, as was the Oath Keepers' case. The first case that they made this charge to a large body, a large number of people and it really might put a damper on some of these groups who are considered extreme when it comes to their actions and what they actually end up doing, because there are serious consequences now.

We're talking just seditious conspiracy charge alone is up to 20 years in prison if they are convicted.

DEAN: Right. Some very, very serious consequences. Let's go back to Katelyn Polantz who's getting even more breaking details.

Katelyn, I want to get right to you. What are you learning?

POLANTZ: So we don't have the exact verdict yet that the jury has reached in three more hours of deliberating today. But we do know that they have reached a verdict on that fifth defendant for that seditious conspiracy charge, this man, Dominic Pezzola, who the jury has already said they do find him guilty of taking a police shield from a police person at the Capitol on January 6th and then using it to break a window and get inside the building, leading many rioters to want to follow him inside overcoming the Capitol.

And we have been waiting. We know that the jury has already found four of the Proud Boys leaders, the people who were in touch well before January 6th talking about civil war, they have found those men guilty of seditious conspiracy. They had not reached a verdict this morning on whether Pezzola also would be guilty or not guilty of that charge.

We haven't yet seen the jury come back in to deliver what that verdict is. They were in and then they went out of the courtroom again. There are some other counts that the jury was not able to come to a conclusion on. But those are relatively minor compared to the work that this jury did today and over the last seven days, we will be able to see the result for all five Proud Boys defendants on trial today related to that seditious conspiracy charge levied by the Justice Department.

DEAN: Right. So stay with us. We are waiting for that to come in. Katelyn, we will check back in with you. And of course, we're going to bring you those updates as soon as we get them. Let's get in a quick break and we'll be right back.

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SCIUTTO: We've just gotten news in the remaining charges against the members of the Proud Boys remaining verdicts as well. Some where the jury came to unanimous verdict, others where the judge has declared a mistrial because they were not able to come to a unanimous verdict. Katelyn Polantz has been covering the trial. Katelyn, tell us what we know. POLANTZ: Jim, earlier today, there were four members of the Proud

Boys' leaders of that right-wing group found guilty by the jury of seditious conspiracy, among other charges related to January 6th. And now we are waiting to hear what verdict the jury has reached related to a fifth person in that group among the Proud Boys, a man named Dominic Pezzola.

The jury could not figure out what they wanted to do with Pezzola related to seditious conspiracy earlier, but they have now reached a verdict for him. We don't know what it is yet, but this is a really big moment for the Justice Department in so many ways. This trial has been extremely long. There was exceptional amount of effort put in to gather the evidence needed to bring the prosecution against these men, these members of the Proud Boys.

And there were things that the Justice Department found in chats even among members of the Proud Boys that they were able to show to the jury so far to help secure these convictions.

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Things like a message Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys, had sent to other Proud Boys on January 6th saying, "Make no mistake. We did this." That was a crucial piece of evidence in this case so far. And it did allow the jury to find Tarrio guilty of seditious conspiracy. He was not on the grounds of the Capitol or even in Washington, D.C. on January 6th, so that was quite a monumental thing for the Justice Department to be able to prove in this case.

But we are still waiting for that additional count, what happened with the other seditious conspiracy charge against Dominic Pezzola. Pezzola is a person that is very visibly part of the story of the day of January 6th.

He had - he's seen in many images, in video, in photos, breaking a window. In this case, he was accused of ripping a riot shield away from a police officer and then taking it to bash into a window in the backside the Capitol building. At a time when the crowd had sort of settled down. The police were basically getting their line regrouped, and Pezzola was able to get them in, leading others into the building. Jim?

KEILAR: Yes. A big day there. And Katelyn, we have just gotten word that the jury is back in the courtroom. Another verdict or another part of this verdict is going to be read. So we are going to let you go so that you can see what is going to happen there and report back to us.

I do want to bring in former federal prosecutor, Renato Mariotti, to talk a little bit about we just - what we just heard from Katelyn.

Renato, what do you think about this? And obviously, there are so many charges at play here. The jury able to make a lot of progress as we await to hear this fifth verdict when it comes to Dominic Pezzola, but what do you think overall of what's come out so far? RENATO MARIOTTI, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, this really

looks like a very careful jury. I think it gives you some newfound faith in the jury system. It's clearly a jury that's very carefully considering the evidence and the charges. I think it's going to actually help, by the way, these verdicts be upheld on appeal even the fact that the jury is careful (inaudible) ...

KEILAR: Renato, I am so sorry to interrupt you. But I want to go back to Katelyn right now because she has the news of this other verdict that has just been read.

Katelyn, what can you tell us?

POLANTZ: So this jury has found Dominic Pezzola, a member of the Proud Boys, not guilty of seditious conspiracy in this case. So they're splitting in this major case, where they are deciding that the four leaders of the Proud Boys, the men who were in communication before the Capitol riot, talking about war, civil war, they have found those four men guilty.

But this man, Dominic Pezzola, the fifth man, the one that prosecutors say led the charge into the Capitol, breached the building and was the key player at the tip of the spear, specifically in this group, trying to get the rioters to overthrow the U.S. government. He is not guilty.

That said, Dominic Pezzola has been found guilty by this jury earlier today for several other things related to the Capitol riot ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

POLANTZ: ... including assaulting police, robbery of the personal property of the police, taking that riot shield among destruction of government property, among some other charges today. But this is a split verdict and so it is one of those things that is going to lead the defense attorneys for the other Proud Boys to want to argue even more. They've argued quite a bit and I'm sure that they are planning appeals going forward from now.

SCIUTTO: Renato, I want to go to you because it's a lot for folks to digest at home we were reporting this morning. You do have four leaders of this group convicted of seditious conspiracy, which is quite a serious charge, not an easy one to prove in court. You and others have made that point on the air repeatedly four, yes, guilty, as well as other charges. One of the five found not guilty here. Just place this into context here. It's a careful jury, but a jury that came to quite a conclusion for several leaders of this group regarding their role in January 6th.

MARIOTTI: That's right, Jim. If you asked me a couple of years ago, would we see charges for seditious conspiracy against any defendant, I would have said absolutely not. I'm sure I did on the air once or more than once. It's a very rarely brought statute. It's just - it's sort of said (inaudible) in this rarely charged - charges I don't think we've really seen since after since after the Civil War and difficult to prove. And so I think what you saw here, like you said, Jim, very careful

jury parsing the evidence found four defendants guilty of seditious conspiracy. I think it's a landmark achievement, frankly, by the Justice Department, very challenging case to bring and one that undercuts a lot of the narratives about January 6th being just a bunch of hoodlums or something that was disorganized.

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Actually, there's a lot of evidence presented at this trial regarding planning and coordination, like Katelyn mentioned a moment ago, so very important.

The fact that the fifth defendant is not guilty of that issue as Katelyn pointed out, a number of other convictions of him, including conspiracy charges regarding obstruction of an official proceeding. So a similar sentence, but actually, I think, a set of verdicts that are going to hold up very well on appeal, given the careful consideration by the jury.

DEAN: And Renato, thanks so much. Stay with us for a second.

I'd like to go out to Sara Sidner who's been following these cases for months now, really since the beginning.

Sara, you and I were talking just a little bit ago about consequences here. And Renato just underscored that point by saying this really flies in the face of any argument that this was just a bunch of people that got together and happened to be at the Capitol that day. This is a seditious conspiracy conviction for four of these people. This latest gentleman, not guilty, but guilty of so many other things.

Help us understand what this means for this moving forward and kind of zoom out if you can, because we're kind of getting down in the weeds a little bit for people who are just tuning in, what does this mean?

SIDNER: All right. So I'll sort of start with the reasons why perhaps the jury did not convict Pezzola, the fifth defendant who faced seditious conspiracy charges. Part of the reason may be because he was not in a leadership position. Enrique Tarrio was then the president, if you will, or the leader of the national organization of Proud Boys at that time.

And then the others who were convicted held some kind of a higher up role. And so you had someone who was like the head of the Philadelphia Proud Boys, right, the president of the Philadelphia Proud Boys.

So they looked at this and said, in order for this to have been a conspiracy in order for this and plan and plotted the heads of these different Proud Boy groups, were at the forefront of this and they had to show the evidence.

Again, this is not - this trial went on for something like 18 weeks. There was a mountain of evidence and there was a large defense as well, which is one of the reasons why this went on so long. A lot of arguing by the attorneys with the judge, with the other attorneys on all sorts of different pieces and parts of this case.

But ultimately, a jury of their peers came back and said, you are guilty of seditious conspiracy. You are guilty of going after police officers and taking their equipment and breaking into the Capitol. And it is significant, they took video of themselves out there. And trust me when I say as I watched this group change, and morph, and grow.

The group was growing up until this time. And the question now will be is this a warning to those thinking about joining groups like this, who started to become quite radicalized, quite far-right, quite extreme? Is this a warning to those thinking about joining or being attracted to them to see what is happening to these men who were - went to the Capitol, one of whom didn't even go to the Capitol, but was still convicted of seditious conspiracy.

You talk to anyone who covers and watches extremist groups in this country and they will tell you, it will definitely be something that may chill the water for anyone thinking of jumping into one of these groups.

SCIUTTO: Well, one thing we should note, they were attempting to overturn an election loss by former President Donald Trump, who is now the leading Republican candidate for president in 2024, at least at this point in the process.

KEILAR: Yes. And I think there's a very big message here, Sara, which is there is the act of, say, breaking into a building as these very important proceedings, obviously critical to the critical to democracy, critical to our democracy, right?

There's the damaging of property. There's what we saw happen to so many police officers who suffered that day. And then there's also this idea of planning, right, of people making a plan to impede this process and that that is incredibly significant, Sara, that that is something that is going to be - these folks are going to be accountable for.

SIDNER: That's right. And think about this, the DOJ has done dozens and dozens and dozens of trials, right, and had some people have pleaded guilty, but they have not lost one so far. And if you look at how they went after these two groups. Specifically, this is the harshest, highest charge that they can charge anyone with and you saw two groups: The Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys, both of whom were clearly present that day.

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