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Source: Gunman May Have Been Motivated By Right-Wing Extremism; Texas Gun Safety Bill To Be Heard In State House; White House Issues Veto Threat On GOP-Led Immigration Bill; Tomorrow: Pivotal White House Meeting On Raising Debt Ceiling. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 08, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: What drove him to kill? We are learning new disturbing details about the Texas mall shooter, but do they tell us anything about a motive, anything to explain this? We are live in Allen, Texas.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Power to the passengers, President Biden just proposed a new rule for airlines. If they cancel your flight for a reason that really should have been avoidable, they are on the hook for any expenses. But what about bad weather? We'll tell you how this would work.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, preparing for the surge. Title 42 ends this week and leaders on every level are warning of the chaos that could follow. We're going to take a closer look at what's being done ahead of this potential influx. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: Devastation once again and now a desperate search for answers - some answers in Texas, after a 33-year-old gunman attacked innocent people Saturday at a mall. He killed eight, wounded at least seven.

Today we are learning more about the perpetrator. He was armed familiarly with an AR-15-style weapon, carried several magazines, wore a patch linked to right-wing extremism. And now we know that he lasted only three months in the army before he was terminated due to mental health concerns.

CNN's Josh Allen joins us - Josh Campbell joins us now from Allen, Texas.

Josh, you have new details about two of the victims.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. This obviously never gets easy when we're talking about these massacres. We are now learning that two of the victims were young children. They were sisters. We're talking about a second grader and a fourth grader who were at this mall, who were part of the eight that were gunned down by the shooter as he comes here.

Again, a second grader and a fourth grader. And we see this time and time again. Obviously, you ask when it's going to end, but two young lives that were cut short. I do want to step aside a second. I want to show you what the community is doing here. They're coming out, showing an outpouring of support. We've seen this makeshift memorial being set up, people bringing crosses, people bringing flowers, community members that are hugging, embracing each other, that are leaving behind mementos.

Again, this an all too familiar sight in the United States of America, as community after community continues to be rocked by gun violence. And, of course, here now in Texas, just the latest community grieving this afternoon, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I've seen those memorials so many times. Those memorials go away. Of course, the pain for the families, particularly family who lost young children like that, never goes away. Second and fourth grade, Jesus.

Well, you broke the news about the shooter that he did serve a very brief time in the U.S. Military. Tell us what we know about that and why he left.

CAMPBELL: Yes, so we are learning more about that suspect's past, that he was for a very brief time in the United States Military, that according to a law enforcement source. That has since been confirmed by our colleagues: Oren Liebermann and Natasha Bertrand at the Pentagon.

The U.S. Army saying that in 2008, the suspect here did serve just about three months before he was ultimately terminated from the military over the regulation they're citing are health and mental health reasons. I'm told from a law enforcement source that it was because of potential mental health issues.

The reason that is so important as we look at the suspect's background is because every time these shootings happen, the question comes up, were there red flags? Is there anything that could have been done as part of a background check process that could have stopped someone like this from assembling an arsenal of weapons?

I'm told by a law enforcement source that he did just that. We know during this massacre, he used an AR-15-style weapon. Again, the same type of weapon that we've seen so many times. I'm told he also had several weapons in his vehicle, several extra magazines full of ammunition on this person.

But for a brave heroic police officer who sprung into action, took that shooter down, this likely would have been so much worse.

Finally, I'll point out that investigators continue to look to that motive. I'm told that they have not yet zeroed in on one specific motive, but this appears according to authorities like right wing extremism for two reasons.

First, when he was shot and killed, he had an emblem on his chest that we've seen on - in so many extremists and protests around the country. Also, a very troubling social media presence as well, Jim. SCIUTTO: Listen, it could have been worse, but with a weapon like this, fires at those speeds with magazines like this, he can kill a lot of people in a short period of time. That is familiar as well.

Josh Campbell in Allen, Texas, thanks so much.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, he's been following a gun safety bill proposed to raise the age for semi-automatic weapons.

[15:05:02]

And I wonder where this stands, Shimon, given that Texas, even in the face of this gun violence, has been loosening, not tightening gun laws.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, they certainly have an uphill battle. This all came to be because of the families in Uvalde. After that shooting, the gunman buying his AR-15 there just days after he turned 18. The families really just have come together to try and get some sort of safety measures, something done in the name of the family members, the kids that they lost.

And so they've been pushing the House committee members to try and get legislation to the floor that would make it illegal for anyone under 21 to purchase AR-15-style rifles in the state of Texas.

Jim, it's an uphill battle. It certainly doesn't have the support of the majority, which is the Republicans and the governor, but this small victory for them today is massive. Some of these family members waited 13 hours, weeks ago to testify before this committee.

And finally today, really in a surprise, no one was really expecting this. And maybe perhaps the events over the weekend, this shooting in Texas, maybe this is what finally pushed them to do this. Two Republicans actually on the committee voted in favor of this. So this now has to go to the House floor.

Again, an uphill battle. It has to get calendared and whether or not they'll actually hear this, but still a small victory here and they're going to keep fighting to try and get this legislation passed in the state of Texas. So now we wait to see what the full committee, what the full House does in Texas.

The state senator there, Roland Gutierrez, of course, who's been fighting for this, he's the state senator for Uvalde. He said finally here that their voices are being heard and so that their voices are making a difference.

And so something, small measure here, but certainly the next steps here are going to be an uphill climb for the family members there and for legislators.

SCIUTTO: Yes, as you say, it doesn't have the support of the majority in the legislature, it appears or the governor. We'll follow closely, Shimon Prokupecz. Boris, to you. SANCHEZ: Zooming in now on the incident in Allen and the potential extremism angle and that RWDS label the shooter was apparently wearing. When you're talking about far right groups, those letters stand for Right Wing Death Squad. That's according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors extremism in the United States.

In recent years, members of the Proud Boys and other organizations have been spotted wearing those letters on their clothing and their tactical vests. Keep in mind, this comes amid a staggering jump in domestic terror-related investigations.

The Government Accountability Office says that number of investigations has grown 357 percent over the last decade. I want to bring in an expert now to discuss.

CNN National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem, joins us now.

So, Juliette, RWDS, where did that originate and what does it tell you that this shooter had that insignia on his chest?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. So, the fact he had the insignia means that he at least was a proponent of this idea. So, let me explain because it's a complicated network of ideas.

The first is RWDS is actually a group, that there have been known groups who define themselves as Right Wing Death Squads. They are, of course, violent. There have been cases or at least reporting of members of the military being planning events using RWDS as sort of an affiliated group. There is one case involving attempts to go after the DNC of this loosely defined group. Okay, so that's - they're not as - they weren't as strong as the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers, but they existed.

The second is, of course, it's a violent ideology. As you were saying, it's the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, they sort of embrace this idea of RWDS or what's called the full RWDS, which you can imagine what that means. It is just violence to kill those who don't believe with them. A famous and now defunct sub-Reddit site called "The Donald" proposed and adopted the RWDS insignia.

Third, I just have to say it's also legacy. There's a lot of talk about race and ethnicity in this case, given the shooter. It has ties to Latin American and South American dictatorship. This group really likes Pinochet, the Chilean dictator who is known for his extermination and his disappearance of political affiliates.

So, this is not, this is a - this group, this idea exists not for political discourse, but to kill. And that is why this should be viewed as a politically motivated crime.

SANCHEZ: Well, Juliette, I wanted to dig into that last point.

KAYYEM: Yes.

SANCHEZ: So far this afternoon, CNN NEWS CENTRAL has not used the shooter's name, but I want to bring it up because it is a Hispanic name, Mauricio Garcia.

KAYYEM: Yes.

SANCHEZ: That does not sound like a white supremacist.

[15:10:00]

KAYYEM: No. No. So, this is a very complicated aspect of right-wing extremism. We would assume that everyone's white in some Caucasian sense, but Hispanic and people with Hispanic sounding names ethnically identify.

See, Hispanic is an ethnicity. It's not a race. And so, a lot of Hispanics might identify as being or sometimes identify as being white. This is true of the leadership of Proud Boys, a Cuban, African, American as well as some of the leading right-wing sort of podcasters like Nick Fuentes.

The second is that within the Hispanic community, and it's something that they're dealing with, there can be anti-black racism and other ways in which they will more identify with the white community against, say, the African American community, or even other Hispanics.

So, we shouldn't think, because someone has a certain last name, they can't possibly be a right-wing. That is actually just not true. The leadership, the podcasters, the - what I call the hate stew, is not all white in this country.

SANCHEZ: Now, Juliette Kayyem, we have to leave the conversation there. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective with us.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Brianna?

KAYYEM: Thanks.

KEILAR: Boris, at least eight people are dead, several more injured in Brownsville, Texas after a speeding SUV plowed into 18 people who were there at a city bus stop. Police say the driver was a man named George Alvarez - is a man named George Alvarez.

He's facing eight counts of manslaughter. He's facing 10 counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. And this crash was caught on surveillance video. We're not going to show you all of this video. It is disturbing to see. But you can see there, the top of the screen, the SUV that was speeding before it struck this crowd.

CNN's Nick Valencia is in Brownsville following this story.

Nick, you have obtained some exclusive video from moments right after the crash.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brianna. It was shot by Cesar Romero (ph), who's a Venezuelan national, who was an eyewitness to this whole thing. In fact, he tells us that some of those who were killed were among his friends.

He tells me what he saw. He was standing right across the street here out this corner when he saw George Alvarez driving in that Range Rover, barreling through this intersection, making his way towards that bus stop where the men were sitting down on the corner, plowing directly into them.

Now, the video that we're about to show you is exclusive to CNN. It shows the aftermath of that crash. And according to Romero (ph), Alvarez tried to run from the scene. And that's something that is corroborated and has been corroborated by police. That group of men that you're seeing there trying to subdue Alvarez, keep him from running away.

Interestingly enough, I talked to the Brownsville Police Department this morning and they tell me that the district attorney is considering potential charges against those men who are seen assaulting Alvarez on the video. It's a fact that has really caught people here in the community off guard, frustrating them, because Alvarez is charged with eight counts of manslaughter and 10 counts of aggravated assault.

Police have still not yet ruled out whether or not this was intentional. That's part of their investigation, as is whether or not he was potentially impaired or intoxicated. They're also considering that this could potentially just be a horrible accident and that the car malfunctioned.

Of course, what's really underscoring the anxiety in this community here and leading many to believe that this may have been intentional was this happened - this incident happened just days before Title 42 is set to expire. And there's many here in this community who are really worried what that means to the migration pattern coming to these small towns across the U.S.-Mexico border. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right. Nick Valencia, thank you so much for that report. Jim?

SCIUTTO: CNN captures new images of long lines along the southern border where people are camping out ahead of the expiration of Title 42 and the debt ceiling deadline rapidly approaching. Top lawmakers are heading to the White House just as a group of Republican senators has drawn a new line in the sand. Ahead why leading economists say that millions of jobs are already at stake.

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[15:18:08]

SCIUTTO: Bracing for a surge, really a bigger one than what we've already seen. Officials at the U.S.-Mexico border preparing for a migrant influx, a larger one ahead of the lifting of Title 42 in just three days.

That Trump-era policy that allows certain immigrants to be quickly turned away due to pandemic concerns at the southern border, that will end. Right now, border officials are encountering more than 8,000 migrants a day. That number could rise to some 10,000 a day when Title 42 ends.

Just hours before it is lifted, the Republican-led House is expected to vote on a wide ranging border security package. Trouble is, it just doesn't have the votes on the other side.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, she's live from the White House.

What is exactly in this immigration bill? I mean, is there anything in it that might at some point get bipartisan support or is this largely a symbolic move?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, there may be elements of it that have bipartisan support like border security, but taken as a whole, this is unlikely to pass the Senate and it certainly won't be signed by the White House that already issued a veto threat. So as to what is part of this package, includes, for example, codifying Trump- era programs like the remain in Mexico policy, which required that migrants stay in Mexico while they go through their immigration court hearings.

It also included funding for the border wall and building border barrier and funding also for personnel. Now, the White House, as I said, has already issued a veto threat on this saying, "While we welcome Congress engagement on meaningful steps to address immigration and the challenges at the border, this bill would make things worse, not better."

And the White House press secretary just moments ago going even further, saying that this would be a disaster.

Now, of course, politics looms large over all of this, especially in anticipation of that surge that may come at the end of the week when Title 42 expires.

[15:20:06]

And an administration official tells me that the - that White House officials are ramping up their calls to lawmakers, to stakeholders and to cities as they brace for this influx.

Already, Homeland Security officials are telling me that they're seeing numbers go up, as you mentioned earlier, 8,000 encounters a day and more than 25,000 migrants in custody. So as these preparations are being set in motion, those numbers are already climbing, Jim?

SCIUTTO: Priscilla, help me understand because the administration announced last week some changes that would make it harder for folks to get their asylum petitions approved and return those folks to Mexico with Mexico's agreement. So is there not overlap between what Republican House members are proposing here and what the administration is doing?

ALVAREZ: That's been a criticism of immigrant advocates and Democrats of this White House that they are leaning on Trump-era like policies like, for example, what you mentioned, sending non-Mexican nationals back to Mexico after striking an agreement with that country.

But still, that remained in Mexico policy that was - would be in this bill to be codified. President Biden has criticized it and said that he would not return to that. So all of this, Jim, just showing and underscoring the politics of the moment on both ends of the aisle.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, almost in spite of themselves, right, because there are things there that would move the ball forward, but neither side appears willing to move the ball forward together. Priscilla Alvarez at the White House, thanks so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: On Capitol Hill, the clock is ticking closer to a potential economic disaster, really an economic cliff that we do not want to go over if the debt ceiling isn't lifted. And both sides are digging in.

Forty-three Senate Republicans now vowing to block any deal to raise the nation's $31.4 trillion debt ceiling unless the Biden administration agrees to budget cuts. It's a big show of support for House Speaker Kevin McCarthy's position. But the White House says it's a nonstarter and the President is calling for a clean raise.

Meantime, the risks for the national economy are significant. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warning the U.S. could default on its debt as early as June 1st, which is only twenty four days away.

CNN's Matt Egan is joining us now.

Matt, set the stage for us what is at stake with these talks?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Brianna, the stakes here are massive. It really doesn't get any bigger than this because an actual default would be an absolute nightmare and virtually all Americans would feel the impact.

Now, it's hard to say precisely what would happen because it's never happened before. But investors and economists are being forced to kind of game out the unthinkable. The White House published an analysis where they look to see what would happen to the economy under a near default, a short default and a protracted default.

And they found that the economy would lose jobs under all three scenarios. But the protracted default would wipe out more than eight million jobs, GDP would plunge, the stock market would get cut in half. It would just be a disaster.

And the problem for investors is that U.S. debt has long been seen as really one of the safest securities on the planet. Treasuries are a cornerstone of modern finance. So if you take that away, things could get real messy real fast.

Now, all of this has sparked some speculation about what kind of break the glass plans might be tucked away in Washington in case this turns into an emergency. And one of those ideas that's often floated is that President Biden could continue to pay - could continue to issue debt by invoking the 14th Amendment, to declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional. But Treasury officials, they are pushing back on this idea because it would probably end up in a messy court battle. Listen to what Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen had to say about the 14th Amendment this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: There is no way to protect our financial system and our economy other than Congress doing its job and raising the debt ceiling and enabling us to pay our bills. And we should not get to the point where we need to consider whether the President can go on issuing debt, this would be a constitutional crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: And Brianna, the last thing you want to do when facing an economic crisis is to layer on top a constitutional crisis. Listen, the clock is ticking here just less than four weeks away. Not a lot of time to get a deal done.

KEILAR: Not a lot of time at all. Matt Egan, thank you for that.

Boris, 24 days, that is not much time at all.

SANCHEZ: Yes, with catastrophe potentially looming. We'll keep an eye on that.

A top Republican in the House is threatening to hold Secretary of State Antony Blinken in contempt of Congress. We have new reaction from the State Department on that threat.

[15:25:02]

And tens of thousands of people in Canada have been forced to leave their homes as dozens of wildfires burn out of control. We're going to show you more of the extreme firefight to the north when CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns.

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[15:29:57]

KEILAR: Congressman Mike McCaul, the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee is threatening to hold the Secretary of State in contempt of Congress.