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Source Says, 150,000 Migrants Waiting in Mexico as Title 42 Nears End; Today, Biden Meets with Top Lawmakers as Debt Default Looms; Gunman Posted Online About Nazis, Mass Shooters. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired May 09, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Counting down to a critical meeting on the nation's debt fight. Will either side budge or will they keep flirting with the economic disaster?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we are live in Mexico and in Washington where the migrant crisis is unfolding on two fronts. In Mexico, more than 100,000 people are said to be waiting for Title 42 to lift so they can try to cross into the U.S. In Washington, politicians are trying to figure out how to prepare for a new surge and are pointing fingers all along the way.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: And happening as we speak, a meeting at the FDA that could soon make birth control pills over-the-counter medications, but scientists are raising some concerns. We'll discuss right here on CNN News Central.

BOLDUAN: Right now, the Biden administration estimates that more than 150,000 migrants are waiting to cross into the United States. We are told that they are spread out and camped out across these Northern Mexican states near Texas, of course.

The Texas governor, well, he is now putting up new wire barriers to close off some of the illegal crossing sites that exist along the border as the nation is just now over 48 hours from Title 42 ending.

Let's begin in Mexico this hour. CNN's David Culver is just across the border from El Paso, Texas. He joins us now. David, what are you seeing there?

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, you can see behind me, there's a crowd of migrants, and I want to stay on these live pictures for just a moment, if you will, because this is just starting in the past few minutes, a few hundred in this one portion of the wall. We should stress that there are many groups like this along the many miles of wall here on the U.S./Mexico border. But you're looking at the Texas side.

And if we push in here a little bit, you are looking at the other side of the barbed wire. the barbed wire that you mentioned was put up by the Texas National Guard, and on U.S. soil right now are all these migrants.

Now, they're going up to this one gate. And you can see CBP officials are there talking to them, and that's where they're starting to process. At this hour, and as it still stands, Title 42 is still in effect, so that means they can go through that gate and they can be met by a CPB officer and then they could be put on a bus and expelled immediately, in many cases, just right back over the border and dropped off here in Ciudad Juarez only to try a few hours later to do it again. And we have seen it many, many times.

What will change should it lift on Thursday, Title 42, is Title 8 will then come into effect, and that means that the folks who are in this line, most of them trying to claim asylum, they'll have the right to put forward their claim, potentially get a preliminary interview, that, of course, guaranteed under Title 8.

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And then as it's being reviewed, they could potentially be disqualified from coming in and said that their claims for asylum simply don't meet the criteria, in which case, again, they'll be deported. But the stakes are much higher. They could be deported and barred from the U.S. for five years. So, that is the shift that many of these folks here are expecting to see come into place, but the reality is they are not basing their schedule around any sort of U.S. policy at this point, because they have seen it going back to November and in December when we were looming the deadline and then it was extended both times, and here we are in May of 2023 and many of them have spent months already trying to make this journey.

I mentioned the barbed wire fencing behind me. I want to show you some of these images. We captured these just yesterday, as you can see folks, two women in particular trying to go over the Rio Grande, then they go under this barbed wire fencing. It's a pretty desperate thing to watch, especially as my and I were just trying to take it all in and see as they were urgently trying to get to U.S. soil. Now, once they cross, of course, they still have to go into that line, turn themselves into officials and begin the processing.

To get to Ciudad Juarez, in of itself, is an incredible trek. It's dangerous, it's treacherous, many of them coming on what's known as La Bestia, the train that comes up from Southern Mexico, that is run often by cartels. It can be a deadly journey for them. And we caught up a couple of days ago with some of the folks who were arriving here and participating in some of the groups that are gathering to try to eventually cross. Here is what they told me as they were coming off that long ride.

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CULVER: She says they were four days on this train, she says, horrible and really cold.

This is his four kids, his wife, 4.5 days on the train.

He says that it is for the American dream and they are going to try to cross today.

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CULVER: A lot of families we saw there, Kate, and there is this mix of, yes, desperation but also determination, saying that if they cannot get across in the next day or so, they will just keep trying until they do.

BOLDUAN: And we are seeing these images here from Sunday in Ciudad Juarez of the lines of people who have been waiting there, as you mentioned, some of the very folks that you are talking to. Thanks so much. It's good to see you, David. Sara?

SIDNER: As the border towns are preparing for the influx of migrants when Title 42 is lifted on Thursday, U.S. lawmakers are working to get immigration legislation to President Biden's desk. The House GOP's border and security bill doesn't stand a chance of passing Congress, but House Republican leaders want to go on record with their plan to what they think will fix the border crisis.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is joining us now from Washington, D.C. We also have Melanie Zanona who is on Capitol Hill with the latest from lawmakers there.

I'm going to begin with Priscilla. Priscilla, what are you hearing from President Biden, especially as this bill from Republicans is being prepared?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Quite simply, they are threatening to veto the bill should it get to his desk. Though, as you noted, it is an uphill battle for it to even get through Congress, and the reason being that it is including codifying some of those Trump- era policies that the Biden administration has had issues with to begin with.

But, look, what's clear here is that this is an issue for the White House, one they are going to have to navigate now and in the coming days, and an administration tells me that the White House officials and Department Homeland Security officials have been ramping up their calls to lawmakers, stakeholders and cities in anticipation of this COVID era border restriction lifting, because they know that all of these cities are going to have to deal with an influx of migrants arriving.

Now, the numbers are already creeping up. We saw this week that encounters along the border reached over 8,000. There's more than 25,000 migrants in custody, as you saw those pictures from David Culver, people are desperate and they are crossing now as they are expected to cross in the coming days.

But this is not just about straining federal resources, it's also about the cities. And we are seeing the Biden administration ramping up their efforts on the ground there in El Paso too, where, today, they are starting an enforcement operation to take into custody those migrants who have not been processed by officials and have been sleeping on the streets. So, the White House really navigating political and logistical challenges here.

SIDNER: Melanie, now to you on Capitol Hill, where this bill is being worked out, and where the Republicans hope it gets through both Houses, not likely. What are you hearing?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, that's exactly right. They are working to get this bill through the House right now, and they are trying to time it strategically to coincide with the expiration of Title 42 on Thursday, because Republicans really want to use this as a messaging tool in order to attack the Biden administration.

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This was something that they ran on, securing the border. They spent months negotiating this package, and it does include a number of conservative priorities, from restarting construction of the border wall to placing new restrictions on asylum seekers.

But even though they spent many months trying to get all corners of the conference on board with this package, we are learning that they are running into some last-minute opposition. There are some lawmakers, like Dan Crenshaw, a Texas Republican, who thinks the bill doesn't do enough to crack down on cartels. He wants to designate cartels as a foreign terrorist organization. And then you have some lawmakers who are concerned over the expansion of E-Verify. That is a program that verifies the immigration status of workers and there are a number of agriculture Republicans who represent ag-heavy districts who are worried about the impact it would on the industry. There are also lawmakers, like Thomas Massey, who just thinks that the expansion of the program would be federal overreach.

Now, I did catch up with Steve Scalise, the number two Republican in the House. He said they are working through members' concerns. They are confident that they will have enough votes to pass. They can only afford lose four. They have been underestimated in the past on these tough votes, but they are confident they can get there.

But I would point out, Sara, that, A, this bill is dead on arrival in the Senate. So, it really is just a messaging bill. And, B, the fact that they are struggling to even get the votes for this conservative wish list of priorities when it comes to the border shows just how hard something like comprehensive immigration reform would be. Both parties have talked about that for a long time. They all agreed that the nation's immigration system is broken, but actually finding a solution has been something that has long eluded Washington. Sara?

SIDNER: We have seen this fight for decades. Thank you so much, Priscilla Alvarez and Melanie Zanona, I appreciate it. John?

BERMAN: So, we are just hours away from a critical meeting at the White House aimed at avoiding a catastrophic debt default that would be felt by millions of Americans. This afternoon, President Biden will meet with House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. You can see him right there. Also attending this meeting, the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, who just disappeared, as well as Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader of the Senate.

Time here is of the essence. Two new studies backed Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen's forecast that the nation could default on its debt as early as June 1st if Congress does not act. The consequences would be huge. Millions of jobs lost, benefits delayed, the stock market would likely plunge, borrowing costs for consumers and business would soar. All in all, a total mess.

CNN's Arlette Saenz at the White House. The meeting happens in a few hours. Any sign anyone is making any movement?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the White House insists President Biden will hold firm to his position that he wants to see a clean debt ceiling hike without an conditions attached. Officials heading into this meeting here at the White House have said this is not a series of negotiations that they are going to engage in, and aides on both sides don't anticipate there really being any major breakthroughs.

Now, just a reminder of where exactly each side stands, President Biden says he wants that clean debt ceiling increase or suspension with no conditions attached. But then on the Republican side, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is still pushing for his plan, which passed the House, which would increase the debt ceiling by $1.5 trillion, but comes with spending cuts attached to it. He also has the support of the majority of Republicans over in the Senate, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Now, the White House and the president have said that they are willing to have discussions on two separate tracks, increasing the debt ceiling without any conditions, but then also starting a separate negotiations and discussions process when it comes to spending cuts. But one of the president's top economic advisers here at the White House yesterday told CNN that they only see one way out of this impasse.

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BHARAT RAMAMURTI, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Well, there is no plan B. Our plan is for Congress to act to address the debt limit without conditions, just like they have done 78 times in the past.

Again, what we won't do is to negotiate about whether we pay our bills or not.

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SAENZ: And the White House believes that there is precedent in the fact that Congress has increased the debt ceiling cleanly over the past several years, but they also have to been trying to warn of the economic stakes that are at risk if there is a default. And one thing additionally that is coming into question by some Americans is whether they have confidence in President Biden's ability to handle the economy. With 48 percent saying they have no confidence, 35 percent saying they have a great deal or fair amount of confidence in how President Biden can handle the economy.

But no question that this is one of the most high-stakes moments that we are seeing in this era of divided government as the future of the American economy could be at risk if they do approach a default.

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BERMAN: No question the economy is at risk. I think we will all be looking for the moods as they walk out of this meeting. Arlette Saenz at the White House, thank you so much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: To read the facial expressions when they come out.

Still to come for us, excuse me, we are learning more about the victims who were killed at that Texas mall. We're also finding out new details about the gunman's disturbing posts on social media.

And jury deliberations will soon begin in the civil rape and defamation trial against Donald Trump. What's at stake for the former president.

And West Virginia's men's basketball coach is apologizing this morning for what he even calls abhorrent comments that he made on a radio show. That's coming up.

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BOLDUAN: On our radar this morning, in Philadelphia, a manhunt is underway after two inmates, including one accused of multiple murders, escaped from a correctional facility. Police say 18-year-old Amin Hurst and 24-year-old Nasir Grant, they weren't discovered missing until nearly a full day after they had slipped through a hole in a fence. The two men are considered dangerous.

In New York, at least 11 people were arrested last night in connection with protests over the death of Jordan Neely, the man who died after being put in a chokehold on a New York City subway. According to the NYPD, protesters were arrested for violations, like assault, obstructing, government administration and disorderly conduct. Officers also recovered, we will show you, this Molotov cocktail near the scene, though, it is unclear what substance is inside that bottle.

And West Virginia's men's basketball head coach, Bob Huggins, he's now calls his own words insensitive and abhorrent. He's apologizing today for what happened during an appearance on a radio show during a radio show interview yesterday, Huggins used a homophobic slur to refer to Xavier University fans and also made disparaging comments about Catholics. West Virginia University released a statement saying that the situation is under review. John?

BERMAN: This morning, we are hearing from survivors of the Texas Mall shooting. Joshua Barnwell, a Navy veteran, tells CNN that he did chest compressions on a young girl after her mother begged him to help.

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JOSHUA BARNWELL, TEXAS SHOOTING SURVIVOR: So, I began to attempt what I could on her daughter with the CPR, the chest compressions and the mouth-to-mouth. But on my second run of the chest compressions is when I noticed just the massive amount of blood loss that was coming out from behind her against the pavement. And I'd realized at that point that she was deceased and there was nothing that I could do.

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BERMAN: How awful. Officials have now identified all eight victims who were killed. The youngest, James Cho, was just three years old. His mother, Cindy, and father, Kyu, were also killed, leaving behind a six-year-old son, as our Josh Campbell noted, a family of four reduced to a family of one. Sisters Sophia and Daniela Mendoza, they were just 8 and 11 years old. Their school principal described them as rays of sunshine. 20 year old Christian LaCour was a well-liked security guard at the outlets. An employee there said that Christian brought laughter and joy and always knew what to say. 26 year old Aishwarya Thatikonda, she was just days away from her birthday. She was an engineer who moved to the U.S. five years ago to pursue her master's degree. Thatikonda, I should have said. And 32-year-old Elio Cumana- Rivas from Dallas was among those killed when the gunman opened fire.

CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell is in Allen, Texas, and, Josh, a lot of new details emerging this morning about this killer.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. A law enforcement source had previously told me that authorities discovered this disturbing online presence that was filled with right-wing extremist posts. We're now seeing that for ourselves.

And here's what we know at this hour. Looking at this Russian social media website that the suspect had an account on is replete with this vile post about Nazis, his obsession with weapons, his obsession with past mass shooters. The suspect actually describes himself as an incel, which is described a man who is angry at women in society for his lack of romantic success. This is so chilling. John.

We're also seeing in these posts, it appears the suspect engaged in pre-attack reconnaissance. We'll show you some of those posts. It appears he was researching online what the busiest times of day were at this mall before he went and conducted that attack.

Finally, I'm getting new information about the weapons that were used here. A law enforcement source tells me that multiple weapons were recovered by law enforcement belonging to the shooter. All of them were purchased legally, most of them from private sellers. The reason that is so important is we continue to hear from gun safety advocates ridiculing this so-called private seller loophole. Because in the state of Texas John, and in several other states, if you buy a gun via a private seller, you don't have to go through a federal background check. John?

BERMAN: All right, Josh Campbell, more details coming in. Please keep us posted. Thank you, Sara? SIDNER: With me now to talk about all of this is CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. Good morning to you.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Good morning.

SIDNER: All right. It's hard not to get sick of this, I have to say. Every single week, sometimes daily, we are seeing these mass shootings, this one at a mall. I want to talk about this person who committed this horrific act, terminated from the army after three months, so it means he didn't finish basic training. A law enforcement source is telling us that he was removed because of some mental issues.

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So, he was, though, able to become a security guard at one point. What does that tell you? How is that possible? Or are there different requirements to be a security guard?

MILLER: So it's interesting, Sara, because if you look at his short army career, it's 105 days, it's just barely enough to get through basic training. And sometimes when someone is failing out, they keep them through the end of basic training and then discharge them. So, that's from June 26th to October 7th. That is the entirety of his military career in 2008.

But that's a group dynamic. I mean, basic training is all about -- is learning your skills and working within the team. Security guard work is much more you're on your own. It's an industry that has a tremendous demand for people. If you're not convicted of a felony and you can pass the background check, you're probably going to get that job.

Getting to that second level with firearms training and proficiency is interesting. Although having pored through his writings and talked to Paul Murphy, who did our research yesterday, he laments quite often that he is a terrible shot, he's not very good at it, but yet he's a gun enthusiast, a gun collector, gun-obsessed.

SIDNER: When you say gun obsessed, I mean, these posts also show that he was seemingly obsessed with Nazi culture, disturbingly obsessed with these things. This tends to show up, doesn't it, sometimes in these cases, over and over and over again?

MILLER: I mean, what you're looking at is every offender is going to be specific and different. But when you look at the overarching profile and commonalities between these offenders, what you see is people who are loners or don't want to be loners but are isolated. Even when you go through his social media and you're looking for the interaction or exchange with others, he's a loner in life. He's a virtual loner. But it became his outlet.

And you can tell something is going on. Because in early April, you start to see the pictures of the mall, but he also does what's almost a data dump. He starts to post pages and pages and pages of handwritten journals by PDFing them and putting them up on the site. And reading through them, they don't mean much to you and me, but you can tell what he's doing is, here's my story, here's my legacy. And he writes things like, they've been laughing at me for as long as I can remember, but they're not going to be laughing anymore. We know how this is going to end.

So, this is building inside him, the Nazi ideology, the swastika tattoo on the chest, the Nazi ideology, the S.S. lightning bolt tattoos on the arm. He's drifting further and further from the incel piece to the Nazi piece, to the anti-immigrant piece into these rejectionist theories. And when you look at the victimology, you have the Mendoza family, you have a family from South Korea. You have an Indian young woman of Indian origin who's an engineer. It appears now in a conservative Texas county in a mall filled with white people that he went there and probably deliberately targeted people who looked of foreign ancestry to him.

SIDNER: Wow. It's really, really disturbing. And another case where someone who is, as you said, a loner both in life and virtually decided to feel like the victim himself and take it out on others, and doesn't matter that he is a Latino man. He still loved this idea of being a Nazi.

MILLER: Well, when you look at the Nazi ideology, it comes in with a built-in piece of superiority.

SIDNER: Right?

MILLER: And when you are nobody in life and you're looking to attach yourself to say, I'm important, I'm special and I'm better, it's a good fit for twisted people.

SIDNER: John Miller thank you so much for that analysis. Kate?

BOLDUAN: A U.S. Army sergeant convicted of murdering a protester at a Black Lives Matter rally will learn his fate today as the Texas governor is pushing for a pardon.

And the tape that could play a key part in jury deliberations in former President Trump's civil battery and defamation trial as jury deliberations are about to begin.

We'll be right back.

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