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Today: Biden Meets With Congressional Leaders As Default Looms; Source: 150K-Plus Wait In Mexico For COVID-Era Expulsion Policy To End; Jury Deliberating In Civil & Battery Case Against Trump. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired May 09, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Our nation's leaders gearing up for critical talks at the White House. It is a small group but there are big consequences for the American people with the U.S. just days away from defaulting on its loans. If that happens, we're staring down an economic disaster.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: 10,000 migrant encounters at the southern U.S. border. That on Monday alone. The number is expected to grow this week as Title 42 is expiring in just two days. We're going to be live once again on the border.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, a major change for women when it comes to breast cancer screenings. New draft recommendations say that women should start getting mammograms a decade earlier than expected. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Here in two hours, the most powerful figures in Washington will be convening at the White House to fill each other out on a bitter debt ceiling standoff. And the prospects, well, they are not promising. The lead negotiators, President Biden on one side, and Speaker McCarthy on the other, they haven't budged in months.

The White House refuses to call today's meeting even a negotiation and the speaker rules out one possible solution, a short-term deal. That leaves the country with about three weeks before a U.S. debt default. Treasury says it could happen as soon as June 1, and it would spark an economic catastrophe on Wall Street, on Main Street, and just about everywhere in between.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is at the White House for us. Jeremy, the administration really seems to be throwing some cold water on the idea that we'll be seeing progress today.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, they're certainly setting expectations very low for the potential for any kind of substantive progress to come out of this meeting. White House officials tell me heading into this meeting that President Biden is determined to hold the line on his view that a clean debt ceiling increase is the only way out of what he has called a manufactured crisis by Republicans. On the other hand, he also is willing to have a discussion about spending.

And that's potentially where you could see some developments here, the notion that the White House is willing to engage in discussions about spending and perhaps we will see some kind of a process set up for negotiations going forward. That is certainly one of the open questions. But the White House Press Secretary today reiterating once again that for anyone who's expecting President Biden to go into this meeting with something different to offer Kevin McCarthy an off-ramp, they're sorely mistaken. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: People have asked will the president give Speaker McCarthy an off-ramp, an exit strategy. But exit strategy is very clear, do your job. Congress must act. Prevent a default.

That's what a success -- not for him. It's not about the president. It's about the American economy. It's about the American people. That's what the president views as success. That's the way that it should be done. Regular order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And, Brianna, as you know at the moment, getting to that description of success as the White House press secretary says is a very, very far away idea. And despite the fact that we are just over three weeks away now from the U.S. potentially hitting that debt ceiling, this is really just the first act in what's going to be a multi-step process of negotiations, in terms of the president sitting down with those congressional leaders.

And so you're going to see that dance play out over the next several weeks, including tomorrow with the president heading out to the backyard of one of those Republican members of Congress, whose district voted for President Biden in 2020. You're going to hear the president ramping up the public pressure on Republicans. So, this is something that's not just happening behind closed doors, but also in public.

KEILAR: Yes. No matter how this ends, it is not going to be pretty. That is one thing we know for sure. Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thank you so much.

Let's bring in Matt Egan now to talk about the economic impact here. You know, Matt, I will say. I think people have been pretty chill about this. Just everyday Americans.

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I'm not getting phone calls from people saying, hey, what is this all about? What are they doing? And I kind of think that a lot of folks are used to this brinksmanship when it comes to government shutdowns and the like. But this is a different beast. This is serious. MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Brianna, it is serious. I mean, an actual default would be a complete nightmare for the economy. It's something that would really impact virtually all Americans. And it would make a government shutdown look like a walk in the park.

I mean, you could be looking at mass layoffs into default, perhaps even into the millions of people. You see the stock market plunge. And if -- you know if the government doesn't have any money, it can't pay out all of these benefits that everyone relies on.

66 million people rely on monthly Social Security payments. 65 million people rely on Medicare. Another two million federal workers rely on the government for paychecks and for benefits. 1.4 million active duty military members rely on the government for money.

So, this is just a sampling of the payments that could be impacted by a default. Let's hope we don't get anywhere near there. Hopefully, today marks the beginning of progress where both sides agree to you know defuse this ticking time bomb before it does actual damage to the economy.

KEILAR: Yes. We've heard it's too big to fail. This is too terrible to happen. But we'll see how close we get and we'll see who blinks first. Matt, thank you so much. Boris?

SANCHEZ: So, how are the politics of all of this playing out? Let's talk more about the debt ceiling showdown with CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash. Dana, thanks so much for being with us.

Some new polling numbers for President Biden from Gallup, they don't look great. A large number of Americans have almost no confidence, 48 percent, that he will do the right thing for the economy. What does that signal to you?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, all of his numbers are hovering around the same place kind of in the 30s -- high 30s low 40s. If you look at not on the economy, but on the broader question, the overall question of his approval rating CNN's poll of polls has them at about 40 percent. It's not good.

SANCHEZ: Right.

BASH: I mean, there's no other way to look at it. It's not good. The White House as they're trying to find silver linings, they argue several things. Number one is that it's not that much worse than other first-term presidents who went on to win a second term, namely, Obama and even George W. Bush. But there are so many unknowns that that is why these numbers right now early on are our warning sign.

SANCHEZ: And also, there is a bit of a disconnect from reality. And let me explain with more numbers. We've got Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, and Fed Chair Jerome Powell their numbers in terms of confidence from Americans, not very high. But when you look at the hard numbers in the last jobs report, more than a quarter million jobs created.

BASH: Right.

SANCHEZ: Unemployment nearly a 50-year low. What can the White House do to shift public perception of this?

BASH: This has been the economic story since before the midterms. And this is why Democrats were very worried and Republicans were very bullish.

SANCHEZ: Right.

BASH: Too much so it turns out before the -- before the midterms because the economic indicators, aside from these were pretty bad. And the answer to your question is, the job market is great. That's not why people are feeling bad.

People are feeling bad because the cost of their goods, they're just too high. Inflation is too high. And that goes back to some of the poor numbers that you see for the treasury secretary and for the Fed. Because they're in the position of trying to fix inflation by raising interest rates.

So, what happens when you raise interest rates? It means that it costs more to borrow money, to buy a house, and so on and so forth. So, it is a -- the most complicated of economic pictures. And that's why people don't have the greatest feeling about those who are trying to fix it.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And you see inflation at a pretty high mark there about a year into Biden's administration. You mentioned President George W. Bush. That same Gallup poll had the lowest confidence in the president's ability to handle the economy. Biden, remember was roughly 35 percent. His was 34 back in 2008, the great recession. We're not at that point, but yet Americans feel like we are. It's interesting.

BASH: It is. Because it is all about how people feel. I will tell you that in talking to people in and around the Biden administration, then by the Biden campaign now, they argue a couple of things. Number one, they're just getting started on making the case, not just from the bully pulpit from the Rose Garden -- the White House, but from a paid campaign advertising point of view for all the things that they believe that Biden should get reelected for. And the other thing is that, much like in 2022, the midterms, is not just going to be about the economy, there are other issues.

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Namely, abortion. They are still banking on the fact that places like Florida, not that Democrats feel that they're going to win Florida, but it's just an example, a six-week ban on abortion. And there are examples of that all over the country that they still feel will galvanize the Democratic base in a way that could counteract the economic anxiety that voters really do feel.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and that was a huge issue --

BASH: Yes. SANCHEZ: -- during the midterm elections, and we saw it play out all over the map. We'll see how it plays out going into the future. Dana Bash, thank you so much for the analysis.

BASH: Good to be here, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Jim, over to you.

SCIUTTO: Well, the number of migrants waiting on the other side of the border is going way up. This as end of Title 42 comes this week. A source says the U.S. government believes there are more than 150,000 people in Mexico waiting for this change on Thursday when the policy that would have expelled them immediately due to the pandemic comes to an end. And that is just in the northern part of Mexico.

You see in this map. It's estimated 60,000 are in the State of Chihuahua alone. It's a huge number. CNN captured some women moving through a barbed wire fence yesterday just south of the border showing the extent to which they'll go to try to get into this country. Government estimates believe there are hundreds of thousands more in the pipeline as it's known in southern Mexico and Central America. Many of them start in Central America and work their way up.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, she's in Washington. And, Priscilla, we know the administration has already instituted new measures to make it harder for an asylum application to work. What are the preparations do they have in place now? And what kind of numbers are they expecting? I know you just got an update.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: And those measures, Jim, are ones that the administration has been telling migrants to expect when this COVID-era border restriction lifts. Now, a homeland security official tells me just moments ago that they on Monday saw nearly 10,000 daily encounters. That's a number that they assumed would come soon. They expect that it'll be more than 10,000 after Title 42 expires on Thursday.

But it indicates that migrants are already crossing and they're crossing in big numbers regardless of what U.S. policy is. To your point earlier, there are hundreds of thousands of people in the pipeline because there is unprecedented mass migration in the western hemisphere. The Biden administration is aware of this. They have been talking about it for weeks.

And a source tells me that White House officials and administration officials are ramping up their calls this week to stakeholders, lawmakers, and cities to warn them about what's to come with this influx. So, those preparations are being set in motion, short term and long term. Setting up transportation and capacity, but also setting up those regional processing centers in Latin America so that people can apply to come to the U.S. instead of the U.S. southern border. But still, Jim, that we are still seeing large numbers that are already in northern Mexico.

SCIUTTO: So, just briefly. Of those 9900, nearly 10,000, do all of them come into the country, or many turned away? ALVAREZ: That means that they were encountered by border authority. Some of them could have still been expelled under Title 42. But remember, there are still limitations to this authority, which means that --

SCIUTTO: Right.

ALVAREZ: -- some nationalities are processed into the country, which is why you're seeing what you're seeing in El Paso.

SCIUTTO: Understood. So many numbers for people to digest. Thanks so much, Priscilla Alvarez. Our Nick Valencia. He is on the border in the town of Brownsville, Texas. Nick, how many people are -- or how are people that are now preparing for this big jump later this week?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're bracing for it here and trying to chip in residents. We've seen them out of the goodness of their own heart try to help these overrun -- overworked nonprofits that are chipping in to help these migrants that have come to the streets of Brownsville, in some cases sleeping. And just as I say that you see this individual passing out seems like supplies. We saw another individual passing out sound sandwiches just earlier.

All of these migrants we're told had been released on humanitarian parole. All of them that we've spoken to so far are from Venezuela. And we wanted to introduce you to one of them here. We were speaking earlier.

(INAUDIBLE)

She says she's from Venezuela like the most of these people. But she has also seen people from Cuba, Salvadorians, Hondurans many Nationalities.

Were you aware of Title 42 and that the border is going to be reopened like it was before the pandemic?

She said no. She says it's been about a month that she's been walking here --

SCIUTTO: Wow, she's walking.

VALENCIA: -- for days through the jungle. She said she didn't have any information. What are you running from? She said the dictatorship, the Maduro regime, the political crisis there.

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Others that we've spoken to here say -- you see this line forming up here for supplies being handed out. Others that we've spoken to here say they're trying to gather enough money to get a bus ticket that cost $80 to get to San Antonio. The gas station owner has allowed them to use the hose here and others have brought them supplies in order to wash some cars here to try to get enough money through donations in order to raise that money to get on to their next destination. But they're overwhelmed here, Jim. You know, we were speaking to Team Brownsville, that nonprofit I mentioned. They said yesterday they had 750 people that they processed. And with the coming deadline, the looming deadline of the end of Title 42, they say that number is expected to swell upwards of over a thousand, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's such an important point because there are so many forces here including just breakdown of countries to the south of the U.S. border that's driving many of them up here and also many of them up there in the false information that somehow they'll just be able to waltz right in. Nick Valencia in Brownsville, Texas, thanks so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: A Memorial is growing outside the mall in Allen, Texas where eight people including a three-year-old child were murdered. We are learning more heartbreaking details about the victims.

And happening now. A panel of New York jurors is deliberating on whether to hold Donald Trump liable for defamation and battery in E. Jean Carroll's civil lawsuit. We're live outside the courthouse.

And on the heels of a nearly $800 million defamation settlement, Fox chief executive Lachlan Murdoch faced investors and defended the network. We have more on that and how he reacted to Tucker Carlson's firing. You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We'll be right back.

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SANCHEZ: Just minutes from now, we are expecting to hear from officials in Allen, Texas. They're going to update their investigation of that outlet mall shooting that killed eight people. It comes as we learn more about the gunman's disturbing social media activity.

And I want to show you some of the images that investigators say he posted in recent weeks, seeming to reveal an obsession with Nazis, weapons, and mass shootings. What you're looking at at the top of your screen is a long gun and a handgun on what appears to be a bay. There are multiple boxes of ammunition too.

And below, you see that shooting range target full of holes. And here, the body armor vest that authority says he wore during the shooting. And you'll notice the patch right in the center that reads RWDS. That is an abbreviation for Right-Wing Death Squad, perhaps a hint at the shooter's motivation.

He also allegedly posted these photos. That, on the left, is a picture of the mall in the weeks before the shooting. And then on the right, a screenshot from Google Maps showing when the mall was busiest.

CNN's Josh Campbell is on the scene for us in Allen, Texas. And, Josh, despite all of these social media posts, some apparent red flags, investigators have not yet outlined their theory of a motive.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Certainly not publicly, Boris. We are hearing from law enforcement sources that right-wing -- right-wing extremism is certainly the leading theory here. And that's because as you mentioned on the suspect's chest after he was found deceased, there was that patch that was associated with right-wing -- right-wing extremism. They also told his social media presence certainly very disturbing. We're now seeing some of that for ourselves.

CNN has identified this account on a Russian social media platform the law enforcement source tells me the suspect is believed to have used, is replete with all kinds of vile posts about white supremacy, his obsession over Nazism, over weapons, over past mass shooters, and researching those. He's also a self-described Incel, which, for those who follow extremism know, that's men who blame women in society for their lack of romantic success. We're also learning in that social media profile that chilling detail that you mentioned, Boris, that it appears the suspect came here to this mall in the weeks leading up to that massacre, conducting reconnaissance, looking around, taking photos, looking online to see when this mall would be the busiest

So, certainly, a chilling profile certainly based on his social media alone. And of course, Boris, we are expecting to hear from authorities in just a short period of time. We hope to learn more about this ongoing investigation.

SANCHEZ: And, Josh, just looking behind you I noticed that the makeshift memorial at the mall has grown since you've been there. What more are we learning about the victims that were killed in this brutal attack?

CAMPBELL: No, exactly. This makeshift memorial is something that we see in all of these types of shootings. You can see members of the community coming out to grieve. They're laying cards and flowers and mementos, just grieving for the loss of those who were slaughtered in this massacre.

We are learning now the full identities of all those who are killed. They include 20-year-old Christian LaCour. He was a security guard here at the time of the shooting. Also killed, 32-year-old Elio Cumana-Rivas and 26-year-old Aishwarya Thatikonda. Now, we're also learning children, Boris, were among the victims including according to a local school district, two sisters, 11-year-old Daniela Mendoza, and her sister Sofia just eight years old.

And a family now just gravely impacted by this attack. We're told that a man and his wife, 37-year-old Kyu Song Cho, and Cindy Cho, as well as their three-year-old son James, they were all killed. They leave behind a six-year-old, Boris. Think about this. A six-year-old child who now because a gunman here with an AR-15, has a family of four now a family of one, Boris.

SANCHEZ: So tragic. Just the latest victims in this epidemic of gun violence that has overtaken the United States. Josh Campbell from Allen, Texas, thank you so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: Also in Texas, a candlelight vigil is planned today as we're learning new details about the victims of the deadly crash Sunday in Brownsville. Police say that this man, George Alvarez, drove his SUV into 18 people at a city bus stop outside of shelter and he killed eight people doing so. Authorities say seven victims are still in the hospital, three have been released. Several migrants have been said to be among those killed.

Alvarez is facing eight counts of manslaughter. He's facing 10 counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. It's still unclear whether this crash was intentional, Jim.

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SCIUTTO: And happening right now, jury deliberations are underway in the civil battery and defamation case against Donald Trump. Former columnist E. Jean Carroll, suing the ex-president alleging he raped her in a Manhattan department store dressing room in the 1990s and then defamed her years later when she came forward. Trump denies the allegations.

CNN's Kara Scannell, she's live outside the courthouse in New York City. Kara, what does Carroll's team need to prove in order to win her case? And I wonder you've been watching this trial since the beginning, do you expect a long deliberation here?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, I wish I knew the answer to that question. I mean, so Carroll's team that just describe to the jury what they need to find by the laws -- required by law in order for them to vote -- (AUDIO GAP). So, you remember she sued Donald Trump under two claims, one of battery and one of defamation.

The battery one based on her allegation that he raped her in the department store. So, in that one because this is a civil case, it's not criminal, the standard of proof here is the preponderance of evidence. So, the judge put it to the jury this way. If it's just a little more than 50 percent more likely than not that it happened.

And they said if it is just by the tiniest amount that they will -- that they should find in favor of Carroll. Now, there are three different kinds of sex crimes that the jury can evaluate, and they just need to choose one if they're going to find for Carroll. That is rape, that's sexual abuse or forcible touching.

On the defamation claim that relates to Trump's October 12 statement in where he said that he didn't know Carroll, he didn't rape her, and that she wasn't his type. That is a different standard of proof for most of the elements of defamation there that's by clear and convincing evidence. And the judge or the jury just thinks of it as it's not only probable but highly probable.

And in that case -- in that claim, the jury would need to find three things to be true. That it was a defamatory statement, that it was a false statement, and that Trump made it with actual malice with you know complete disregard for Carroll.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SCANNELL: So, that different types of standards here as different questions for the jury to answer. And then ultimately, if they do find in Carroll's favor on one or both of them, they also have the question of damages both compensatory and punitive if they believe that Carroll was injured, either by the battery or by the deformation. So, we're about two and a half hours into deliberations right now, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Interesting and given all those questions that they have to answer there, that could indicate how much work they have to do. Kara Scannell, thanks so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: Jim, coming up, critical information that all women need to hear. There are some new proposed recommendations about when to start getting mammograms. And the manhunt for two inmates in Virginia, it's now over. Why the second escapee alerted authorities himself? We have that next.

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