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Representative George Santos in Federal Custody; Title 42 Set to End. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 10, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: From exposed lies to criminal charges, Republican congressman George Santos is now in federal custody and facing a legal fight, a 13-count indictment against him, and growing calls to kick him out of Congress. That's straight ahead.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Any moment the White House official in charge of operations in the southern border will address the escalating crisis, more than 150,000 migrants waiting to cross into the United States.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are also standing by for a sentencing decision in Texas. The man convicted of murdering a Black Lives Matter protester and the governor pushing to pardon him.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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SIDNER: Right now, George Santos, the Republican congressman who has told numerous lies about his job, education and personal life is in custody and facing a 13-count indictment. Those charges include wire fraud, money laundering, theft of public funds and making false statements to the House of Representatives.

Prosecutors say he solicited funds under false pretense and he used the money for personal expenses, such as designer clothing and credit card payments. For more on what the indictment includes, I want to get to correspondent Brynn Gingras. She's been outside of the courthouse this morning, where Santos has been taken.

What else does this indictment, which is 20 pages long, say?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's very detailed, Sara; 13 pages, as you said. It is anything from fraud to money laundering. It is the culmination of a months long investigation and, again, it is quite detailed.

Some of the allegations are surrounding his 2020 run for Congress, which he didn't get the seat, and the 2022 run for Congress, which is why he is now the third district congressman. And in those allegations and in that indictment it says he operated a

company and using a consultant which basically encouraged political supporters to contribute to his campaign. But instead that money would go to his personal benefit.

He used it to make a car payment. He used it to buy designer clothing, as you said. Other allegations in this indictment unfold about personal -- I'm sorry, unemployment benefits he received.

Meanwhile he was holding a $120,000 salary from a job but still getting unemployment benefits from the State of New York, totaling about $24,000 during the COVID pandemic.

And then there are also allegations in this indictment and charges regarding a financial disclosure statement made to the House of Representatives, falsifying those statements and sometimes overinflating what his salary was; other times, underestimating what his salary was.

So pretty detailed and in it you can see that prosecutors and investigators used text messages to support their claims, also had informants who appeared before the grand jury. And this grand jury returned that indictment just yesterday with these 13 charges.

What we know about George Santos currently is that he turned himself in, according to my colleague, Mike Morales, to the Mineola FBI Department here, not far from where we are. And he was brought here to the federal courthouse, where we expect to see him in front of a judge on these charges.

I want to read you a statement from the U.S. attorney, Breon Peace.

It says, "Taken together the allegations in the indictment charge Santos with relying on repeated dishonesty and deception to ascend to the halls of Congress and enrich himself.

"He used political contributions to line his pockets, unlawfully applied for unemployment benefits that should have gone to New Yorkers, who had lost their jobs due to the pandemic, and lied to the House of Representatives."

So that pretty much sums it up there. And this after all the lies that have been just following him, right, Sara, ever since last year, where there are now constituents who, before and now, are doubling down, saying he should leave office.

SIDNER: Brynn Gingras, thank you for your good work out there. Appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: There's been a wide range of opinion amongst his colleagues about what George Santos should do.

How is that news landing now that there is an indictment on Capitol Hill?

Manu Raju is standing by. You've been talking to lawmakers.

How are they taking the news?

What do they say now?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot them have concerns. Remember, there are two ways that George Santos can no longer be a member of Congress.

He can decide to resign and we have a vote in the full House to expel him, meaning two-thirds majority in the House will be needed to do just that. And in talking to Republicans this morning, they're indicating he should step aside. And some are open to voting for expulsion.

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RAJU: Would it be better if he resigned?

REP. STEVE WOMACK (R-AR): Oh, absolutely. It's a distraction and it's a punchline for a lot of commentary regarding the Republican Party that we don't need. And I just -- I feel -- I feel like he should have done the right thing.

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): We owe the American people answers. If it has veracity, which we let the process go, it seems like as they go down the journey, the charges get more serious and serious.

And they're serious enough. So the Ethics Committee, in my opinion, needs to act on it now. I think America deserves the answers.

RAJU: Would you -- could you vote to expel him, if it came to it?

ZINKE: If the charges have veracity and they're true, then he should not be a member.

REP. NICHOLAS LALOTA (R-NY): I think he needs to go right away. I hope that he resigns. I want to concentrate on things like the border, China and debt. He's a complete embarrassment. The nation's focus is on solutions that matter, no longer George Santos.

RAJU: (INAUDIBLE) very concerned?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, absolutely.

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RAJU: Now one who has not commented is McCarthy. He has indicated that if he is found guilty, perhaps that could change things. But he has argued that other members of Congress have been indicted. They've fought that in court and they've been found not guilty and they continue to serve. And so he says he will allow this process to play out. We'll see if

anything changes at the House Ethics Committee, makes any decisions going forward. There is that separate ethics investigation ongoing.

But at the moment the speaker indicating he will not call on him to resign. And if he did, that will open up a special election in a swing district. And it favors Democrats, potentially narrowing an already very tight House majority.

BOLDUAN: All of that context extremely important surrounding the reaction on Capitol Hill. Great to see you, Manu, thank you.

BERMAN: With us now, Elie Honig, a former federal prosecutor.

You've been in these offices. And I've read it in your book "Untouchable," available in bookstores now.

What is the standard to bring charges against a sitting member of Congress?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Technically the standard to charge is the exact same as to charge anybody else. But the reality is prosecutors will be more careful. And DOJ's internal guidance says, if you're going to charge someone in a position of official power, that will go up higher and higher levels of review than an ordinary person.

So prosecutors, I believe, have to be more confident in this case than they normally would be in order to charge a sitting member of Congress.

BERMAN: Talk to us about the pace of this investigation. I'm unaware that it was taking place before the election with a lot of these charges deal with.

How quickly did they put this together?

HONIG: It looks five to six months, which is very quick. Part of this seems to be that one thing led to another. Sometimes when you pull on that thread, the whole sweater unravels. And I think this is a good indicator and a good example of the fact that, when DOJ believes there is a serious case and they can back it up, they can move quickly.

And also extra urgency here because he's sitting in Congress and voting on legislation today. So I think there is an extra impetus to make sure at least the American public knew about this.

BERMAN: When you say have the evidence, there are financial crimes here alleged. When you have allegations of financial crimes and you have the records, how easy is it for a defendant to push back against what's in plain paper for people to see?

HONIG: It depends how clear the records are. It's not necessarily true if there is a document-involved case that it's automatically an easy one. But looking at this indictment, they look like they have the goods. The charges fall into four categories. There's wire fraud. He raised money from donors, saying I need your donations, and then he basically pocketed it. It's wire fraud if you use any sort of telecommunications device -- a phone, email et cetera. So that's one group of charges.

Money laundering, he took some of that money and he wire transferred it over to his own bank accounts. And that means he's intending to cover up what happened.

Third, unemployment fraud, this is really remarkable. He ripped off a fund set up for people who were suffering because of COVID financially, said I'm not working when he was working. I think the papers will prove that out.

And then finally made false statements to Congress, at various times overstated and understated, different instances, his sources of income.

So again, in a case like this, this case looks like it's heavily built on the documents and it looks like the documents really tell the tale here.

BERMAN: It is interesting because when you outline the four buckets of charges, three of them have either to deal with him as a candidate or as a incoming member of Congress, lying to Congress when he was filling out documents here.

And there is the fourth bucket, which is this alleged unemployment fraud, which is interesting because one would only uncover that once you start digging out other things.

HONIG: Right. It's a great example of how investigations often go.

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HONIG: By the way, unemployment fraud is charged all of the time because they're straightforward. This person applied for benefits and sometimes received those benefits and said he was not working. But he was.

Another thing that jumped out to me about this indictment and the accompanying press release, no mention of a cooperating witness, meaning some other person who was involved in the crime with him. A lot of federal cases are built on that. But if you can build the case on documents without that, God bless them.

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BERMAN: None of that here and we are so used to seeing that.

Finally, look, we all learned about George Santos from reporting first by "The New York Times" and CNN and others about this trail of fabrications, things that weren't true and in some cases flat-out lies and sometimes twisting the truth in a million ways.

How will that play into the legal case?

HONIG: It doesn't need to at all. If you look at this indictment, they don't need to get into him lying about his mother or his volleyball career. None of that is relevant.

Another important point here, John. Take my word for it, prosecutors read the press and prosecutors watch TV. And there's nothing wrong with opening up the newspaper, saying, wow, that's remarkable journalism, something we didn't know about, and opening an investigation.

I did it many times. So kudos to the journalists who broke this story to begin with.

BERMAN: Elie Honig, great to see you.

BOLDUAN: This just in, more breaking news out of Texas with respect to the sentencing of U.S. Army sergeant Daniel Perry. He was convicted of murdering Garrett Foster, a protester at a Black Lives Matter rally in Austin in 2020. Now he's received his sentence. Lucy Kafanov joins us now.

What happened?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just moments ago, Kate, the judge handed Daniel Perry the sentence of 25 years for the murder of 28- year-old Garrett Foster at that Black Lives Matter rally, back in Austin in 2020.

He is, according to the judge, getting credit for whatever time he served in custody. He was facing a maximum sentence of 99 years in prison. The prosecutors argue that Perry should get at least 25, which is what they got.

They cited Perry's numerous racist social media posts as well as text messages, in which he advocated for violence, to make the case that he remains a danger to the community. Take a listen.

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GUILLERMO GONZALEZ, PROSECUTOR: This man is a loaded gun ready to go off on any perceived threat that he thinks he has to address in his black and white world, in his us versus them mentality. And he's going to do it again. When we look at his social media, he had issues with Muslims, he had issues with transgender persons, he had issues with Black people.

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BOLDUAN: All right. Lucy Kafanov, thank you so much. We will jump over to more breaking news coming in. We have the Secretary of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas, speaking now about what's going to happen once Title 42 is lifted.

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ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: -- people from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua and Venezuela have arrived lawfully through the pathway we have made available to them. And we reduced border encounters from these groups by 90 percent between December of last year and March of this year. Our president has led the largest expansion of lawful pathways ever.

At the same time, we are clear-eyed about the challenges we are likely to face in the days and weeks ahead, which have the potential to be very difficult. Even after nearly two years of preparation, we expect to see large numbers of encounters at our southern border in the days and weeks after May 11th.

We are already seeing high numbers of encounters in certain sectors. This places an incredible strain on our personnel, our facilities and our communities with whom we partner closely. Our plan will deliver results but it will take time for those results to be fully realized. And it is essential that we all take this into account.

I cannot overemphasize that our current situation is the outcome of Congress leaving a broken, outdated immigration system in place for over two decades, despite unanimous agreement that we desperately need legislative reform.

It is also the result of Congress' decision not to provide us with the resources we need and that we requested. Our efforts within the constraints of our broken immigration system are focused on ensuring that the process is safe, orderly and humane, all while protecting our dedicated workforce and our communities.

Let me be clear: the lifting of the Title 42 public health order does not mean our border is open.

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MAYORKAS: In fact, it is the contrary. Our use of our immigration enforcement authorities under Title 8 of the United States Code means tougher consequences for people who cross the border illegally.

Unlike under Title 42, an individual who is removed under Title 8 is subject to at least a five-year bar on re-entry into the United States and can face criminal prosecution if they attempt to cross again.

Smugglers have long been hard at work, spreading false information that the border will be open after May 11th. It will not be. They are lying.

To people who are thinking of making the journey to our southern border, know this: the smugglers care only about profit, not people. They do not care about you or your well-being. Do not believe their lies. Do not risk your life and your life savings only to be removed from the United States if -- if -- and when you arrive here.

Today, we are beginning a new digital advertising campaign in Central and South America to counter the lies of the smugglers with accurate information about U.S. immigration laws. This campaign adds to our extensive, ongoing communications efforts in the region.

As you can see by the images before us of removal flights and encounters with our Border Patrol agents, we are making it very clear that our border is not open, that crossing irregularly is against the law and that those who are not eligible for relief will be quickly returned.

Do not listen to the lies of the smugglers. This is what will happen to you. You will be returned.

Today, alongside the Department of Justice, we are finalizing a new rule to encourage individuals to use available, lawful, safe and orderly pathways to enter the United States. The rule presumes that those who do not use lawful pathways to enter the United States are ineligible for asylum.

It allows the United States, it allows us to remove individuals who do not establish a reasonable fear of persecution in the country of removal.

Non-citizens can rebut this presumption only in very limited circumstances; for example, if they have used our lawful pathways or sought asylum or protection in another country, through which they have traveled and were denied.

This rule goes into effect once the Title 42 public health order terminates tomorrow on Thursday at 11:59 pm Eastern time.

What I have just described are only a few elements of an expansive effort that began in 2021 to prepare for this transition from the Title 42 public health authority to our tougher immigration enforcement authorities.

In addition to obtaining the first increase in Border Patrol agent hiring in over a decade, the first in over a decade, we are in the process of surging personnel to the border, including more than 1,400 DHS personnel, 1,000 processing coordinates and an additional 1,500 Department of Defense personnel.

All of these individuals will allow our law enforcement officers to stay in the field and focus on their critical mission. We are delivering on tougher consequences for unlawful entry, including the return, removal and expulsion of more than 665,000 people during the first half of this fiscal year.

We are conducting dozens of removal flights per week and we continue to increase our removal flight capability. We are increasing our efficiency and reducing processing times at the border.

We launched the CBP1 app, which, in its first four months, helped 83,000 individuals schedule an appointment at a port of entry. And we are taking steps to expand available appointments.

We bolstered the capacity of local governments and NGOs. Just last week, we announced a distribution of an additional $332 million to support communities along the southern border and in the interior of our country.

[11:20:00] MAYORKAS: We are leading an unprecedented law enforcement disruption campaign that has led to the arrest of nearly 10,000 smugglers, who profit from vulnerable immigrants.

Knowing that this is a regional challenge that requires a regional solution, we continue to work with countries throughout the Americas to deter irregular migration. This includes a coordinated campaign with Colombia and Panama to prevent individuals from following ruthless smugglers into the very dangerous dead end.

And we are working with our partners in Mexico regularly on a range of issues.

We are a nation of immigrants. We are also a nation of laws. Our immigration laws today are outdated. The solutions we are implementing are the best available within our current legal authority. But they are short-term solutions to a decades-old problem.

The kind of migration we continue to see today requires more resources, resources we have requested and have not received; clearer authority and modernized processes that only Congress can deliver. We urge it to do so.

Now I think we'll take some questions.

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. We've just seen some images from Texas, showing Texas National Guard and DPS physically blocking migrants from climbing up the river banks and accessing U.S. soil.

Does the department believe that that's a legal enforcement posture by the State of Texas?

MAYORKAS: Nick, I'm going to leave it to our Department of Justice to speak to the lawfulness or lack thereof of those actions.

I will tell you this, that our Border Patrol agents and our officers work very closely with the Department of Public Safety in Texas on the ground, when it is a coordinated and collaborative effort. It is essential that law enforcement work as one team to address the challenge of the southern border.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead.

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

How many credible fear screening interviews do you expect to conduct on a daily basis?

And are you confident that we will keep up with the number of apprehensions you are seeing and expect to see?

MAYORKAS: We are, at the Department of Homeland Security, with one of our agencies, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, is indeed surging asylum officers to Border Patrol facilities as well as to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention facilities, to conduct an unprecedented number of credible fear screenings under the asylum rule that is going to be implemented beginning upon the end of Title 42.

We are surging approximately 1,000 or more asylum officers for that purpose. It is very important to note that the asylum rule will take effect if individuals do not access their lawful pathways, the pathways that we have made available to them.

They will face a rebuttable presumption but a presumption of ineligibility for asylum. They will have to meet a higher bar. This president, our president, has led the expansion of lawful pathways more than anyone else in our history.

QUESTION: Yes. Secretary, we have read that the administration has considered releasing migrants that are being carefully vetted. And we just had some teams in El Paso yesterday that observed some migrants being vetted for an hour and then afterward being released with a permit to stay in the country for a year.

I wonder how that process being done and how secure you are of those vetting (INAUDIBLE).

MAYORKAS: So the U.S. Customs and Border Protection screens and vets individuals whom we encounter. Individuals, the vast majority of individuals, will be returned, those who do not qualify from Border Patrol stations or Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention facilities.

We often, as has every administration, released individuals into immigration enforcement proceedings. And those individuals, if they do not qualify for relief, will be removed. We screen and vet individuals whom we encounter.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) your promise to --

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QUESTION: Is there any plan for America --

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QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

Just to follow up on the credible fear question, can you give us an idea of what percentage of migrants you think will be receiving those screenings?

Is it almost half, some?

And can you also speak to the agreement with Mexico?

I know you guys have specifically said they're planning to take back people from the four nationalities, the Cubans, Venezuelans, Nicaraguans and Haitians.

But is there a possibility they would take back other nationalities as well?

MAYORKAS: Michelle (ph), let me break it down a little bit.

We are giving the option to individuals, who are in our custody, the option of voluntarily returning to the country from which they came, because of the consequence of a removal. People have to understand that, under Title 8 of the United States Code, when one is removed, one faces at least a five-year bar to re-entry.

And so we will give people an opportunity to avoid that tougher consequence by voluntarily returning. If they do not take that option and they do not claim fear, they will be removed immediately.

If they do claim fear, they will encounter a higher threshold under our asylum rule, unless they have accessed our lawful pathways or sought relief in another country and been denied.

We are surging, as I mentioned, Michelle (ph), asylum officers to ensure that that screening process, that credible fear screening process, is done fairly with access to counsel but expeditiously.

QUESTION: How do Americans gain the from the immigration path they're opening, sir?

I mean, nobody ever asks this question.

Do Americans gain from all the immigrants bringing into the country?

They drive down wages and push up (INAUDIBLE).

MAYORKAS: Sir, we are a nation of immigrants and we are a nation of laws. Individuals who qualify for relief under our laws have a basis to remain in the United States. The contributions of immigrants to this country is quite clear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

Next to Suzanne.

MAYORKAS: Good morning.

QUESTION: Good morning.

Can you (INAUDIBLE) requesting supplemental funding for the border from Congress?

(INAUDIBLE) made if (INAUDIBLE) and what type of pressure would trigger that kind of request from you guys?

MAYORKAS: In December of this past year, we sought more than $4 billion in funding to address our resource needs, because we are operating within an entirely broken immigration system. And that is something about which there is unanimity.

We did not receive the funding that we requested. We received approximately half of what we requested and half of what we needed, which is why we are encountering some of the challenges. We have sought a reprogramming and we have communicated to Congress that that reprogramming is a fraction of what we ultimately need.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have time for one more -- Rob.

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QUESTION: -- from NBC News. You mentioned the immigration proceedings, the federal -- are you prepared to start releasing migrants into the U.S. without court dates and without a way to track them to reduce overcrowding?

MAYORKAS: So when -- like other administrations, when we release individuals, we release them on conditions. And their compliance with those conditions is absolutely necessary. And if they fail to comply, we will seek to apprehend them and remove them.

They are ultimately in immigration enforcement proceedings. But what we are speaking of, what you are inquiring of, is a minor, is a fraction of the people that we encounter. In fact, the vast majority will be addressed in our Border Patrol facilities and our ICE detention facilities.

QUESTION: Is that not a message that the border is open?

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MAYORKAS: Oh, absolutely not. And I think you can ask the approximately 1.4 million people who were expelled, returned or removed from the United States this past year.

(CROSSTALK)

MAYORKAS: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: Did you want to add anything else on regional processing (INAUDIBLE)?

MAYORKAS: Let me just answer Marcia's (ph) question, if I may, with respect to the regional processing centers.

They are a powerful example of what I expressed earlier, which is that our president has led the expansion of lawful pathways more than anyone preceding him.

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