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Debt Ceiling Negotiations Continue; U.S. Working to Free Americans Held By Russia; Title 42 Ends; Battle For Bakhmut; New York Choke Hold Suspect in Court. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 12, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Trump era trade tariffs on Spanish olives.

And what happened to San Francisco? Sara Sidner investigates how the once-thriving city became tarnished by surging rates of crime, drug use and homelessness. That's in a new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER." Airs tonight -- this Sunday night -- excuse me -- 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

Thanks for your time on INSIDE POLITICS. We will see you tomorrow.

CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Choke hold suspect in court. The man who is accused of killing a homeless street artist in New York City is arraigned. His lawyer says the former Marine had his head held up high. But prosecutors have laid out the case against him in the manslaughter case that could put him behind bars.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: The battle for Bakhmut in Ukraine is heating up. Ukraine claims it is gaining ground there. Even Moscow admits to losses north of the city. Are these battles part of Kyiv shaping the battlefield for a counteroffensive that they hope could end the war once and for all?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And now what? Title 42 has expired, and border officials are seeing a spike in the number of migrants trying to enter the country, while the White House scrambles to patch what it calls a broken immigration system.

We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: So, the man that you see here, former U.S. Marine Daniel Penny, earlier today walking out of a police precinct in New York in handcuffs. He was just arraigned and charged with second-degree manslaughter after this.

You can see Penny here on a New York City subway earlier this month. He is accused of choking a homeless man to death. The man who died, his name is Jordan Neely. Witnesses say that Neely got on the subway and he was shouting, but he had not physically attacked anyone, at which point Daniel Penny put him in a choke hold, and Neely died.

Neely's family said he had been suffering from mental illness. Here's an attorney for the family at a news conference earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONTE MILLS, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF JORDAN NEELY: We don't want it where you can kill someone because you thought there was a possibility they could do something to you. There was no attack.

Mr. Neely did not attack anyone. He did not touch anyone. He did not hit anyone. But he was choked to death, and that can't stand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Kara Scannell is outside of the court where Penny was arraigned.

We heard one of Daniel Penny's lawyers talking about what appears to be a preview of the defense they may use, Kara.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, that's right.

Earlier today, before this arraignment took place, Penny's lawyers were speaking to the media after he had surrendered himself to be arrested. And his lawyers there were highlighting his military service and his reasons for stepping in -- in -- on the subway car.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS KENNIFF, ATTORNEY FOR DANIEL PENNY: Daniel Penny surrendered at the Fifth Precinct, at the request of the New York county district attorney's office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down. Sit down. Sit down, please.

KENNIFF: He did so voluntarily and with the sort of dignity and integrity that is characteristic of his history of service to this grateful nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL: Now, Penny was arraigned a short while ago. There was no plea entered in this case, and a plea would only occur if he is indicted by a grand jury.

But he was released on a bail package proposed by the prosecution. That was $100,000 in a cash insurance bond. He also has to surrender his passport. Now, we did also learn a little bit more about the investigation and what happened.

What one of the prosecutors said in court was that they have conducted numerous eyewitness interviews, reviewed videotapes, reviewed 911 calls, and interviewed the responding officers at the scene. Now, here's what they told us about what happened that day.

They said Jordan Neely -- Neely entered the F Train at one subway stop, Second Avenue subway stop, and, there, he was -- quote -- "making threats and scaring passengers."

Now, the prosecutors said that is when Penny put Neely in a choke hold, and then the train moved to the next station. While it was at the next station, Penny continued to hold Neely in a choke hold for several minutes, the prosecutor said, and then two additional males joined in and restrained his legs.

Now, the prosecutor also said that Neely then stopped moving, but Penny continued to hold him for a period of time. They did not say how long he continued to hold him after that, but then it -- the paramedics arrived on the scene. Neely was tried -- they tried to resuscitate him. He was then pronounced dead at the hospital.

Now, one reason that prosecutors were not seeking to remand him, they said, because he -- because Penny did cooperate on scene. He's continued to cooperate with their investigation. They did not see him as a flight risk -- Brianna.

[13:05:07]

KEILAR: All right, Kara.

Let's go now to CNN's Omar Jimenez.

Omar, families for Jordan Neely -- or the fam -- the family of Jordan Neely has been speaking out. What are they saying?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this was the result, at least the arrest and the handcuffing and the charging, that the family had wanted and been asking for from the very beginning.

It's part of why we had seen protests, because people had not seen what they perceived any action in regards to Daniel Penny. As we know now, the district attorney's office had been working behind the scenes to help build the case to bring us to this particular charge.

But, again, the family was saying that this might not even be far enough, but it is something they are going to have to live with right now. Take a listen to some of what they said a little bit earlier today just really in the moments when Daniel Penny was essentially heading into court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LENNON EDWARDS, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF JORDAN NEELY: We need a full cup of justice here, and we're asking for us to continue to press forward until that happens.

Now, I do want you to just take a look at these folks here. They represent the family. There are two here, but they represent the whole family. And I'm asking you to have a heart. Have a heart and continue to press forward until justice is served for this family. It's about this family, because this family is part of our community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And a big part of this conversation too has been not just about the specifics of this particular case, but what factors in Jordan Neely's life basically put him in this situation to begin with.

We had spoken to some of his friends and people that knew him that basically showed, from when he was performing as a Michael Jackson impersonator to when he got here, his life met multiple points of decline, and so, of course, all of that part of the conversation as well.

KEILAR: It certainly is.

Omar Jimenez in New York, thank you for that report -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Now to the deepening crisis at the border under America's -- quote -- "broken immigration system."

Those words from the head of Homeland Security. He's now in his first day of policing the border without Title 42. That's the policy that let the U.S. immediately expel migrants, and it expired overnight. Today, like before the pandemic, they have a chance to apply for asylum, but they face much harsher consequences if they try to enter the U.S. illegally.

The rule change has helped drive a record rush of migration to the U.S. border. Border communities are beyond capacity, and several more just today declared states of emergency.

Let's take you now to the Southern border in Brownsville, Texas, with CNN's Nick Valencia. He's been tracking all of the latest developments.

Nick, so Title 42 expired as of midnight last night. Has it made any difference in what you're seeing where you are in Brownsville?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Boris, there's actually fewer migrants being processed today than this same time yesterday.

I spoke to Team Brownsville, which is the main nonprofit here that helps out migrants after they arrive to the city. And they say, at noon Eastern, they had processed just one bus of -- one immigration bus of those that had been released on humanitarian parole. At this same time yesterday, they had about five.

Now, just in the last hour, we did see a second bus. And you see some migrants did wake up on the streets this morning. But there are very thin crowds here. This morning, there was several dozen migrants that were sleeping on the street. That crowd has obviously woken up and gotten about their day.

But the crowds are a lot thinner than they were yesterday. We have been bringing you migrant stories all week, and we want to continue to do that.

Betty is from Ecuador. One of the stories that's happening here, Boris, is that family members have been separated at the border, and people like Betty are waiting for their loved ones.

Betty (SPEAKING SPANISH)

BETTY, MIGRANT: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: You're waiting for your daughter, who's pregnant.

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: You said, on Sunday, that they were entering immigration custody.

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: She said she was traveling with her daughter, who is pregnant, and her daughter's husband as well, and they have been separated.

(SPEAKING SPANISH)

You're coming from Ecuador, right?

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: She said her name is Betty. She says it's with a great disfortune that she was able to -- that she had to leave Ecuador.

(SPEAKING SPANISH) What are you running from in Ecuador?

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: She said she's running from the violence there.

(SPEAKING SPANISH)

What do you want here in the United States?

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: Security, principally.

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: She says she was a target of violence there in her country.

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

[13:10:02] VALENCIA: It's with great sadness that she had to leave her family behind in Ecuador.

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: And, for that reason, she had to bring her family here. She wanted to bring her family here.

(SPEAKING SPANISH) How long did it take you here?

BETTY: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

VALENCIA: She said it took her six days to get here.

(SPEAKING SPANISH)

BETTY: OK.

VALENCIA: We will continue to talk to you.

BETTY: OK.

VALENCIA: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

So, Betty is one of the -- one of the many people, one of the many nationals that are waiting here to -- for news about their loved ones, but very thin crowds here, Boris. Even the main nonprofit here, there was a line yesterday, if you remember, out the door. That is not happening today -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Thinner crowds in Brownsville, Texas, but a situation that even the president himself acknowledges will be chaotic for some time.

Nick Valencia reporting from Texas.

Thank you so much, Nick -- Jim, over to you.

SCIUTTO: All right, so Title 42 lapsed just about, well, 13 hours ago, but the Biden administration already facing legal challenges over new rules to handle the swelling influx of migrants.

And, by the way, they're getting it from both sides, folks who want stricter rules and folks who want less strict rules. A source says at least another 150,000 people in Northern Mexico alone are waiting to try to enter the U.S.

CNN White House reporter Priscilla Alvarez covering this today and, of course, has covered the immigration issue for some time.

So, tell us about these two cases today. You got one from Florida. They certainly have a view of this issue. And then you have another from the ACLU.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: The easiest way to break this down...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALVAREZ: ... is, in Florida, they're going after the operational plan, what the administration is trying to do to alleviate the border facilities.

And then the ACLU is going after their new asylum policy. So what does this look like? With Florida, immediate effect. The administration cannot release migrants without a court notice as of now for 14 days, until there's a hearing. So that is difficult for the administration, because what it means is that they are -- they are stripped of a tool to essentially alleviate these facilities, which, by the way, as you and I have talked about before, are akin to jail-like conditions.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALVAREZ: You don't want people there for long periods of time.

The ACLU, on the other hand, they're going after an asylum rule. And that asylum rule largely barred migrants from entering -- from claiming asylum in the U.S. if they pass through other countries. And they find that to strict and they say it violates U.S. and international law.

So, those two happening at the same time, asylum rule still in place. We haven't heard from the court there.

SCIUTTO: Now, as -- possibly, could -- could the judges issue a stay while they're deciding this issue and then, therefore, kind of hold things up, like freeze things where they stand while they consider?

ALVAREZ: Well, in Florida, we had that come in overnight.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALVAREZ: And that is the pause for 14 days on releasing migrants.

SCIUTTO: Gotcha.

ALVAREZ: And, Jim, I just want to say, I spoke to a source this morning,. They had baked into their planning that litigation was probably going to happen.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALVAREZ: Because that's been the case for the course of the Biden administration on border policy.

But it gives them an extra thing to contend with.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALVAREZ: And officials are saying this could be harmful while they're trying to process record numbers of people at the border.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And just very quickly, you could address these issues if Congress were

to sit down and come to an agreement and change the law, right, address it in that way. You could do that. And that's the piece that's not -- not happening.

ALVAREZ: That's the question for D.C. and for lawmakers.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALVAREZ: And, so far, there has not been movement on that front.

SCIUTTO: Fair enough.

Priscilla Alvarez, familiar story on that front -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Shaping the counteroffensive, how Ukraine is laying the groundwork to take back territory from its Russian invaders.

Plus: Time is running out to avoid an economic mess. So, why are leaders in Washington delaying meetings over raising the debt ceiling? We're live from Capitol Hill.

And drug shortage disaster. There's no other way to put it. Lifesaving cancer drugs now facing major supply chain problems, and, for some of these, there are no alternatives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:58]

SANCHEZ: Ukraine is making its final preparations for a major counteroffensive.

A senior U.S. military official says Ukraine has begun shaping operations which target sites like weapons depots and command centers to soften the battlefield ahead of their advance, this as the fierce fighting in Bakhmut rages on. Ukrainian troops shared intense first- person video of that battle.

Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNSHOTS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is live for us in Ukraine.

And, Nick, the head of the Wagner Group, which has been Russia's main presence in Bakhmut, today acknowledged that they have ceded territory there.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Russia's Ministry of Defense troops certainly have. And that was indeed echoed by a Russian Ministry of Defense statement

which said they had taken more useful or more advantageous positions to the northwest of that particular city. That's been the ultimate goal, really, of Russia over the entire winter offensive, deeply symbolic for Moscow.

The Wagner head, Yevgeny Prigozhin, said he'd basically concentrated his forces in the city proper. And since this dispute he's been having with the Russian top brass over the last week in public had emerged, he'd begun to see Russia's conventional military take the flank positions.

Now he's accusing them of indeed abandoning many of those. And that's, of course, been confirmed by this Russian Ministry of Defense statement. This is small amounts of territory, flat, open spaces around the city, changing hands, the second instance we're aware of in the last 48 hours.

But it marks, really, a sea change in the narrative around Bakhmut. That had been a place which Russia had, as I say, made its entire focus, seemed a few weeks ago like it might be about to entirely surround. And now we're seeing this remarkable change happening, both in terms of public display of disunity amongst Russia's military elite, Prigozhin slamming the top brass daily, often in foul-mouthed, expletive-laden messages on the social media app Telegram.

[13:20:14]

But it also forms part of the increased uncertainty, I think, amongst Russian forces as we near what seems to be Ukraine's counteroffensive, Jim Sciutto reporting earlier that a senior U.S. military official had referred to the fact they believe shaping operations have begun.

You might see some of that in the explosions that appear to be hitting key targets inside the occupied areas of Luhansk. We have been seeing bits of that over the past few weeks, but the tempo certainly rising here. Ukraine, it does appear to be bracing itself to launch this counteroffensive imminently. If not, we're seeing the early parts of it already.

And Russia in complete disarray, particularly around the city it's held in such high symbolic value -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Bakhmut a microcosm of the dysfunction within the Russian forces and their efforts in Ukraine.

Nick Paton Walsh from Zaporizhzhia, thank you so much for that report -- Brianna.

KEILAR: The Biden administration is looking to trade high-value Russian prisoners in exchange for two Americans who are wrongfully detained by the Putin regime, Evan Gershkovich and Paul Whelan.

There's just one problem. The U.S. doesn't have any detainees to offer up. So, CNN has learned the Biden administration is scouring the globe for any countries that have high-profile Russians in custody to see if a third-party prisoner swap could be worked out.

CNN's Kylie Atwood is at the State Department on this story.

Kylie, where do things stand?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, what the Biden administration is doing here is casting a really wide net, going to allies around the world, particularly those who have recently arrested Russian spies, because, as you said, Brianna, the United States doesn't have any high-level Russian spies in their custody.

And they know that that is what Russia is going to want in terms of a potential prisoner swap for Evan Gershkovich and Paul Whelan. So, their outreach extends to countries including Brazil, Germany, Norway, also a former Soviet bloc state.

And we have learned that those discussions are really ongoing right now. In the case of Germany, we know that the United States went to Germany -- it was last summer -- for Vadim Krasikov. He is a Russian spy who is in German custody charged with murder. But, obviously, those efforts didn't really go anywhere, in terms of Germany playing ball to offer him up, because that was essentially more than half-a- year ago.

We don't know the status of the conversations with the other countries right now. But it's also important that the administration is also going to allies who don't have Russian spies and essentially trying to see if they have anything that they can offer on the table to give the United States leverage at the negotiating table, to essentially gin up some creative offers to Russia as they try and come up with some deals that could secure the release of these two Americans who are wrongfully detained in Russia -- Brianna.

KEILAR: What incentives could the U.S. offer up to one of these third-party countries?

ATWOOD: That is such a great question, and I think that really gets at the detail of these ongoing negotiations.

We simply don't know what the United States is offering right now. In the case of some of these countries, the United States does have an extradition treaty with these countries. So they have actually requested the extradition of some of these Russian spies to the United States. That is following all legalities, and then they could potentially trade them with the Russians once they're in U.S. custody.

But if the countries are willing to play ball before that happens, they don't necessarily have to be extradited to the U.S. for this to actually happen -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, we will see if this plan works out.

Kylie Atwood at the State Department, thank you -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: All right, coming up: Round two of negotiations between President Biden and top leaders in Congress has been pushed back. Is the delay a good thing or a bad thing for any potential deal?

And, later, a judge has ruled that 18-to-20-year-olds should not be barred from buying handguns. Reaction to that ruling, what it means -- just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:52]

SCIUTTO: All right, a big meeting postponed.

President Biden will not meet with congressional leaders today, as planned, to discuss some sort of debt ceiling deal. Meanwhile, the clock keeps ticking toward what would be a potentially catastrophic default if they don't reach agreement as early as June 1. That's just 20 days away. Big stakes for the country, for the world, arguably.

CNN's Lauren Fox joins us now from Capitol Hill.

So, I see delay, and that you could think well -- well, they're not talking to each other that's bad, or that, at lower levels they're trying to work on something before they put the leaders together. So what do we know about why this was delayed?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we know that it was because of the latter.

There have been staff meetings happening over the course of the last three days. And one of them just wrapped up. It went about two hours. And one thing to keep in mind about these staff negotiations is, they are really trying to figure out what the parameters of these talks are going to be.

And I know that that sounds like it's really in its infancy. And, in some ways, it really is. Despite the fact that the president and the speaker met on Tuesday, that meeting was really just a reiteration of everyone's positions that they have been publicly putting out there for the last three months.

So, the work now of the staff is to decide, what are we talking about? What are we willing to actually.