Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Record Credit Card Debt; Summer Travel Surge; Debt Ceiling Negotiations Continue; Border Encounters Drop After End Of Title 42; More Setbacks For Russia In Ukraine. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 15, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:20]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: A nice moment here, the president sharing a hug with granddaughter Maisy after watching her graduate from Penn.

We will see you tomorrow. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: More setbacks for Russia, as Ukraine makes strides on the battlefield, possibly downing four Russian jets, killing two Russian commanders, and gaining ground in Bakhmut, all as Kyiv gears up for a major counteroffensive.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Chemical catastrophe. A new study shows some service members who were stationed at North Carolina's Camp Lejeune in the '70s and '80s were exposed to a chemical called TCE, and it could lead to a massively higher risk of Parkinson's disease.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: And a summer travel surge. AAA is warning of a blockbuster season, tens of millions of Americans on the road, in the skies as well.

We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We begin the hour with the war in Ukraine.

Today. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was in the United Kingdom enlisting serious financial and military support from British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak. It's the latest stop on Zelenskyy's tour through Europe. He's been meeting with key NATO leaders ahead of Ukraine's planned counteroffensive. He says his country needs a little bit more time to prepare for that major assault.

Meantime, back on the battlefield, Russian troops are facing some real setbacks. Several Russian aircraft have been shot down, and Ukrainians recaptured more territory in Bakhmut, the site of a brutal monthslong battle.

Let's take you now live to Ukraine and CNN's Sam Kiley.

Sam, it sounds like President Zelenskyy is leaving Western Europe with some serious advantages and assurances.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a shopping trolley full of goodies, really, that are very, very important for the Ukrainians, particularly if, as expected, they go ahead with this summer offensive, Victor (sic).

So, from the Germans, he got some close to $3 billion worth of equipment, including tanks, armored personnel carriers, anti-aircraft equipment. From the British, he got long-range attack drones, more ammunition, more air defenses.

But what he didn't get, which is what he's been asking for, have been F-16s. It seems that the Ukrainians have focused down their desires to get F-16, rather than a number of other potential European aircraft. That is the kind of ultimate workhorse of the U.S. Air Force that they would like to see deployed here. It's a standard NATO aircraft. All the weapons will work with it.

And they really, really desperately say that they need it. But, so far, they have also got Storm Shadow cruise missiles, an Anglo-French development given by the British, all intended to give them the strategic capability to go after the Russian forces, not just on the front line, but behind the lines inside the territory of Ukraine, but still deeper in.

Now, the reference to these reported downing of four aircraft, two helicopters and two jets, inside Russian territory, it's a very murky situation indeed. We don't even know, Victor (sic), for example, whether or not it was Ukrainians who shot them down or whether it was an own goal by Russian air defenses, because very close to the border there.

But this all adds up to sort of chaos and friction, nervousness -- nervousness and anxiety in the ranks of Russian forces, which, of course, is being reinforced now by successful offensives being conducted on two flanks around this town of Bakhmut, where the Ukrainians have enjoyed a degree of success in a counteroffensive, after many months of very, very slow, grinding losses and loss of territory, very, very slow losses of territory.

They're able to recapture it very rapidly. And that is all sending that message to Russian forces on the ground to make them anxious about what the Ukrainians are going to throw at them next, Victor (sic).

SANCHEZ: Yes, a stunning example of Russian incompetence on the battlefield, it's turned out to be in Bakhmut.

Sam Kiley, thank you so much for that.

We want to zero in now on what's happening in Bakhmut with Kylie Atwood, who's live for us at the State Department, because, Kylie, the mercenary group Wagner has been spearheading the Russian effort there. And their leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, reportedly made an offer to Ukrainian forces back in January that he would give up Russian troop positions?

[13:05:00]

He's denying that now, but still a stunning revelation.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, quite stunning, indeed. Boris.

So this is, according to "Washington Post" reporting that's based on leaked intelligence documents that had leaked on to Discord, that social media app for gamers.

And, according to these documents -- as you said, this happened in late January. Yevgeny Prigozhin -- the head of that private Russian military group that is fighting on behalf of Russia alongside the Russian military in Ukraine, reached out to commanders in Ukraine and offered to them that, if they were willing to withdraw some Ukrainian troops from around the area of Bakhmut, that he would share with them Russian military positions.

Now, we don't know exactly what positions he was going to share, what troop movements on the Russian side he is privy to, but, according to two Ukrainian sources who talked to "The Washington Post" and were familiar with this incident, there was no agreement that was struck, because, of course, they were skeptical of the offer that Prigozhin was offering them.

They really didn't know exactly what he could deliver on. And, as you said, Prigozhin today is coming out on Telegram denying this, suggesting that this could have been leaked by his enemies. But, critically, we're also hearing from the Kremlin, and the Kremlin spokesperson saying that they don't have the authority to speak to these reports, and also saying -- quote -- "It looks like another hoax."

But what we're watching for here, Boris, is any actual response from the Kremlin. We know that Prigozhin and Putin have quite a close relationship, but if this offer was actually made without knowledge of the Kremlin, that could result in quite a sticky situation.

And so we will watch to see how this plays out. This obviously happened in late January, so there's been a lot of time since then. So there's a lot to watch after this report -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the rift between Prigozhin and the Russian Ministry of Defense not a surprise. This could be another front in that disagreement.

Kylie Atwood from the State Department, thanks so much -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Today, U.S. officials confirmed the Southern border has yet to see the rush of migrants that many border communities had expected when Title 42 expired last week.

The quick expulsion policy from the pandemic period lapsed on Thursday, when the nationwide public health emerged agency ended. Federal officials said that border officers have actually seen a 50 percent drop in encounters with undocumented people, compared to the numbers right before Title 42 ended.

CNN's Polo Sandoval, he is down in El Paso, Texas.

Polo, I wonder what officials there attribute this to, this, well, 50 percent drop, rather than the surge many have been expecting.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the messaging for the Biden administration is what some people think here. It was really kind of a deterrent for so many people on the Mexican side.

But in terms of like the main headline here on the ground, Jim, it's that those apprehensions, as you noted, they are down, significantly down. But the system itself, it is still strained. And all you have to do is walk through this particular block in downtown El Paso, and I say this particular one because this isn't really widespread.

What we saw overnight were perhaps dozens of recently released migrants. These are people who had been processed by federal authorities. And now they wait here in a state of limbo. Most of the people that I have seen out here on this sidewalk are adults, single adults, male and female, perhaps one family that you might be able to see here to my left, but a bulk of the families have been able to shelter indoors.

But it really speaks to the bigger issue, which is those folks that are processed and then released. These are people in the sort of a state of limbo because they are waiting to secure passage to major American cities. I keep hearing over and over again that Denver is going to be their next stop.

Most of these folks, though, they're staying. They're sort of lingering here, waiting for either friends or family that are still in detention to be released, and then, together, they can proceed onto their final destination.

So that is why you will still see some asylum seekers, some migrants here in El Paso. But the numbers that we have seen the last several days, they do not compare to what our colleagues Ed Lavandera and Rosa Flores showed us about this time last week, when you just saw people throughout the downtown area.

So, the key metric to watch will be the rate of release at which DHS processes -- process -- the process that they're going through under Title 8. And then those that are released into the United States, they will likely end up here before they head to cities like Denver and, as you and I know, New York City as well.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and here in Washington, D.C.

In fact, Polo Sandoval, thanks so much at the border.

Let's turn now to CNN White House reporter Priscilla Alvarez.

Priscilla, you have been covering this for ages, right? So, the simple question is, why not the surge that many expected? And then I suppose the attached question is, will that last?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: When I talk to sources about this, the first thing they say is, we're looking at what migrants are thinking and doing on the northern border of Mexico.

[13:10:00]

They're also assessing this situation, right? There was a shift in policy back to decades-old protocols. That means more legal consequences. So they're also trying to sort out, do we cross now? Can we use one of these mechanisms that they have rolled out, like an app, to set up an appointment?

SCIUTTO: Right.

ALVAREZ: Now, what happens when there is a shift is, that desperation still grows. So if they don't see that they can use one of the tools that the administration has put out to legally migrate, they may try to cross.

So that is what the administration officials are watching. They held a briefing moments ago, where they said that it was -- quote -- "very fluid still." I mean, we were talking about 10,000 daily encounters at the beginning of last week. Over the weekend, they were just under 5,000. That's a considerable difference.

It gives them time to breathe and continue to set preparations in place, for example, capacity, which has already been under strain. But it was very clear. A top Homeland Security official said he cannot draw any firm conclusions. So they're very much still watching this. And, still, there is anxiety that it could change in the days to come.

But, of course, Jim, this is not just a border story or a border issue for this White House. It is also an issue in the interior of the United States. You heard it there from Polo. Migrants want to go to cities across the U.S. They always have. But, of course, if there's more crossing, there's more people that are going to different cities as they go through their immigration court process.

So we heard this morning from a -- from the Denver mayor, who was cautiously optimistic, but still said that he has concerns for the White House. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL HANCOCK (D), MAYOR OF DENVER, COLORADO: Let me also share with you that five of us mayors, including Mayor Adams of New York, D.C., Chicago and Denver, have joined together in a letter to the White House that arrives today requesting a meeting with the president, so we can sit and be very specific with him on what we need to help our cities deal with this influx of migrants, and particularly as he continues to try to communicate with Congress about what they need to do to step up to the responsibility of federal government on this issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: So, clear there that the cities are still very much in need of federal resources, as they themselves prepare to take on more arrivals. We are awaiting the White House response to that, but all of this

still a developing story.

SCIUTTO: And then you have to see whether the new standards the Biden administration instituted, whether those affect the next step, right, as folks come across.

Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: On Sunday, White House officials expressed optimism about making progress on raising the debt limit and avoiding an economic catastrophe.

Today, though, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is downplaying the status of these negotiations, saying that the two sides are still far apart. Congressional leaders are expected at the White House again tomorrow for more talks. That is just one day before the president leaves for Asia and it is just a few weeks before the U.S. could default on its debt June 1.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill for us.

So, Manu, who should we believe here? Should we be optimistic or should we be pessimistic about where things stand?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, pessimistic at the moment, just given the tight time frame and the significant hurdles that are ahead, both on the policy and on the process.

The policy, the two sides simply don't have an agreement yet. Yet -- yes, both sides report there has been some progress in the negotiations, but negotiations did not start in earnest since -- last week was when they actually began, and they have only until the beginning of June to avoid a debt default.

Remember, the White House did not want to have negotiations at all on raising the debt limit. They said, simply, the Congress needs to move ahead and raise the debt ceiling without any conditions to avoid the process of debt default. That's not the view of Kevin McCarthy, the speaker instead pushing for significant spending cuts.

They attached those spending cuts to a plan that passed the Republican-led House narrowly just a few weeks ago. And now they're trying to figure out some sort of resolution in the middle. But can they get there? It remains unclear.

And, this morning, Kevin McCarthy made clear that he believes there's a long way to go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I still think we're far apart. It doesn't seem to me yet that they want it. It just seems that they want to look like they're in a meeting, but they're not -- they're not talking anything serious.

And, in the meantime, we just watched the CBO come out and say, we're $100 billion further in debt. And so...

QUESTION: Do you...

MCCARTHY: It seems more like they want a default than a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, they're all -- they're still talking about items like putting a cap on domestic discretionary spending, imposing so-called work requirements on certain social safety net programs, changing how energy projects are permanent to make them happen on a quicker basis.

But some of those matters are incredibly difficult to work through, which raises the concern about whether they can actually get there in time. The White House -- at the White House tomorrow, we expect President Biden to meet with congressional leaders.

Staff level talks have occurred since last week, but can they get to that point where they can actually agree on an outline, draft that into legislative text, move it through the House, move it through the Senate, all before the prospects of default as early as June 1, all still major questions, as Congress tries to avoid the first debt default and try to raise the $31.4 trillion debt limit by early June -- Brianna.

[13:15:05]

KEILAR: Yes. They have to do this.

Manu, thank you so much, live for us from Capitol Hill -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead: preparing for the summer surge. Why AAA says the new travel season is about to be off the charts and what you can do to beat the crowds.

Plus, if you're putting that next trip on your credit card, you certainly won't be alone. Why credit card debt is now smashing records.

And a Swift response, Taylor Swift stopping mid-song to tell someone in the crowd: "You need to calm down."

Some bad blood -- still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Buckle up for a very busy summer travel season.

AAA is now forecasting near pre-pandemic levels of people hitting the road and flying for the upcoming Memorial Day weekend.

CNN's Pete Muntean joins us now live to preview the madness.

Pete, Memorial Day obviously the unofficial start of summer. What do the numbers show in terms of predictions?

[13:20:08]

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Two weeks out, Boris, is when Memorial Day officially is, although AAA says the rush really begins the Thursday before, so 10 days out, if you have not made your plans just yet.

You know, the big thing to underscore here is that the numbers may exceed pre-pandemic levels in some spots, and it's going to be a huge kickoff to what will be a very big summer travel season, maybe even bigger than what we see on Memorial Day weekend itself.

AAA predicts 37 million of those 42 million people traveling 50 miles or more will travel by car, that number up about 1 percent from what we saw last year, really only off 1 percent from pre-pandemic figures. Really helped by that is the fact that gas prices are lower, the average price for a gallon of regular, $3.54 right now.

It was $4.47 for an average gallon of regular this time last year. The worst times to travel, according to AAA, Boris, 3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. on the Friday before Memorial Day, then everybody coming back all at once, noon to 3:00 p.m. on Monday.

But we also have to talk about flying. Those numbers are going to be up above pre-pandemic levels. AAA anticipates up by about 11 percent compared to the same period over 2019. The big tip, try and book the first flight out. That is the way to minimize delays and cancellations and get you to where you need to go on this unofficial start of the summer travel rush, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Very good advice from Pete Muntean, as he levitates over the highway.

Thanks so much, Pete. Appreciate you -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, Americans are increasingly turning to credit cards to pay for just about everything, even more than usual.

And a new report out today shows that debt historically high. The Federal Reserve of New York says credit card balances are approaching $1 trillion, sitting at $986 billion in the first quarter of this year.

And CNN business reporter Matt Egan joins us now to crunch the numbers.

Matt, I mean, that's a big number. And there's a really high interest rates folks got to pay on that debt. What is the Fed saying about this?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jim, we are seeing that Americans continue to borrow, even as the cost of borrowing has spiked.

This report found that consumers added $148 billion of debt just in the first three months of this year alone. That's lifting total consumer debt to just over $17 trillion. That is a fresh record high. And what's interesting is, a lot of this debt has been piled on in

just the last few years. The New York Fed report found that consumer debt since the end of 2019 is up by nearly $3 trillion. Now, we know that, in 2020, the Fed slashed interest rates to basically zero to try to get people to borrow.

Now they have reversed course, right? They're spiking interest rates to discourage borrowing and try to put out this inflation fire. And yet we are seeing that borrowing is up pretty much across the board. The New York Fed report found that, over the last 12 months, mortgage debt is up by about a trillion dollars to $12 trillion, student debt, auto loans, and, yes, credit cards, all of them rising.

I think, Jim, this shows two things, a lot of demand for services, including travel, like Pete was just talking about, and, two, some people, they have run out of savings and they need to borrow.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that's key, because their savings went up, especially with some of the COVID relief during the pandemic here.

But the thing, of course, about interest rates on credit card debt, that never went to zero or anything close to it. They're well above the Fed funds rate.

How high are those credit card rates now, in the midst of this?

EGAN: Yes, Jim, they're very high.

At last check, 20.3 percent...

SCIUTTO: Wow.

EGAN: ... is the average rate, according to Bankrate.com. That is the highest since they started tracking in 1985.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

EGAN: And that is very painful.

I mean, let me show you what that means. Say you borrowed $2,000 to go to Disney World. If you're just making minimum payments, at current credit card rates, it would take you more than 15 years to pay off that debt. And during that time, you would accrue almost $3,000 in interest. So there is never a good time to just make minimum payments, let alone have a credit card balance.

But this might be the worst time. And I think one of the questions here is, when are we going to start to see signs of stress in consumer financial health? And I think the good news is that, at a high level, people are still keeping up with their bills, according to this New York Fed report.

But they are starting to sort of see some cracks emerge. The flow of debt, of current debt, moving into delinquency, that has started to tick up. And this is an interesting tidbit. They found that auto loan delinquencies for young borrowers, those under 40, those have now surpassed pre-COVID levels.

[13:25:03]

So, we need to keep an eye on this, especially as borrowing costs remain high.

SCIUTTO: And if you see any weakness in the job market as well.

Matt Egan, thanks so much for covering -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Concerns growing over the health of thousands of service members after a new study found Marines who had been stationed at Camp Lejeune had a significantly higher risk of Parkinson's disease than those who did not serve at the military base. We're going to take a look at the chemical behind the problem.

And North Carolina's governor vetoing a bill that would ban most abortions after 12 weeks, but the fight may not be over.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)