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Donald Trump Attorneys Meet With Justice Department Amid Probe On Classified Documents Donald Trump Took From The White House; Trump's Lawyers Insisting That Donald Trump Is Being Targeted By Special Counsel Jack Smith; President Biden Believes U.S. Military Armaments Are Going To Be Used By Ukraine To Attack Russia's Border; Former President Mike Pence Files His Presidential Candidacy, Distancing Himself From Former President Trump. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired June 05, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:01:20]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news this morning, lawyers for former President Donald Trump are meeting with the Justice Department right now. What that could mean for the ongoing investigations into the former President.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Fragments of debris and a huge crater after a private plane crashes in Virginia. Why fighter jets were scrambled to intercept it before it went down.

BOLDUAN: And a CNN exclusive, Ukraine now has a network of secret agents working inside Russia and armed with drones, just as the Joint Chiefs Chairman tells CNN he believes Ukraine is well prepared for the counteroffensive.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: And did Twitter CEO Elon Musk break consumer protection laws after the company's widespread layoff and resignations? What four U.S. Senators are now scrutinizing. This is CNN News Central.

BERMAN: So the breaking news, lawyers former President Donald Trump have been seen going into the Department of Justice. You might remember that Trump's attorneys requested a meeting with Attorney General Merrick Garland last month in connection with the Special Counsel's investigation of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.

CNNs Evan Perez joins us now with the very latest on what is going on. Evan, is this meeting still taking place?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is still taking place as far as we can tell, John. We have not seen the Trump attorneys leave the building. There's only one way in and out for visitors. So we're -- we're sitting there waiting to see what they might say when they -- when they exit.

But look, this is a meeting that the -- the Trump lawyers requested just, you know -- you know, just a couple of weeks ago. Now, they were asking to meet with the Attorney General, Merrick Garland. No sign that Merrick Garland is actually meeting with them at this moment, neither any sign that they're meeting with the Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco.

The way these things work, you know, certainly for the Justice Department because they're trying to keep this investigation in the hands of Jack Smith, the Special Counsel is, you know, they might try to accommodate a meeting with somebody who's a career official here at the Justice Department who can at least hear these complaints that they have.

What the Trump attorneys wrote in their letter is that they -- they believe that there's been prosecutorial misconduct that has gone on in this investigation. They didn't specify what exactly that prosecutorial misconduct, just that, you know, the former President is being treated unlike anyone in the history of the presidency.

And so that's partly what they -- their beef is and that's what they want to try to bring across in this meeting today. Now, again, we don't know the specifics of that alleged misconduct that they're making, that they're claiming. But we do know that one of the things they're very unhappy about is the fact that Jack Smith and the prosecutors have obtained a trove of information, including client -- attorney-client privilege material.

Material that normally is shielded from investigators. But they got that because a judge determined that there was an exception, under the crime fraud exception, that allows prosecutors to obtain that kind of evidence.

So, again, we don't know exactly what or how long this meeting is going to go, who exactly they're meeting with. But we know that what they want is they want to lay some claims about the way this investigation has been ongoing. John.

BERMAN: And just Evan, one more question on the timing here, because I know you and others are reporting that the Grand Jury that has been hearing testimony about this is back meeting again now for the first time in some time. What does that tell you?

[11:05:02]

PEREZ: Right, exactly. It's -- I think that the -- the context, the crucial timing I think is very important here. All signs indicate that this is an investigation in its closing stages and that could mean a number of things. It could mean that the Grand Jury, which hasn't been seen at the courthouse since early May, is coming back to get some wrap up witnesses, to get some additional testimony. It could be that you bring back a Grand Jury that hasn't met in weeks to bring an indictment.

So there's a number of possibilities that this Grand Jury could be coming back for. We do not know. Obviously, Jack Smith is holding his cards. It's very close to the vest. But I think that's one of the reasons why this meeting is so important, certainly from the Trump perspective, because if they want to try to get to somebody inside this building to say that there should be a pause, that there should -- something should be stopped, now is the time to do that, John.

BERMAN: All right. Evan Perez, we're going to let you get back to reporting. If you learn anything new about this meeting, get back to us right away. In the meantime, we're going to speak to CNN Legal Analyst Laura Coates, counselor, great to see you.

First, a general question, in a meeting like this, which is not unheard of when you have someone who is being investigated, their attorneys asked to meet with prosecutors. What's the nature of the conversation behind closed doors?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, the power dynamic you have to keep in mind here, John. It's the prosecutors who have all of the power here. They know what testimony has come in, what has not. They know if there are any gaps in their evidentiary burden looking towards perhaps a prosecution.

They know what witnesses there have been. They know who is cooperating and they know who is not. And they've largely, probably been able to outline what are the potential statutes that could be implicated by the conduct that they are now investigating.

And so when they hold the bulk of those cards, this meeting is not just a magnanimous gesture. I don't want to make that -- make that claim. But what it is somebody who has the intention as the prosecutor to be closed mouth, to not be as forthcoming as they could be, say, if they were in an open courtroom or trial, because the other side has every incentive to then go out and talk and try to spin.

And that has already been the track record here. The idea of misconduct is a huge allegation, a huge claim to level against any prosecutor, particularly the Department of justice, obviously knowing that they have gone to great lengths through Jack Smith to have the impropriety that was hinted at by Trump and his team to be distanced from the Attorney General Merrick Garland. So the number one thing to keep in mind here is the power dynamic.

And as Evan rightly pointed out, there's a little bit of kudos that ought to be given to the entire process here because Grand Juries are supposed to be secret. We're supposed to be a little bit in the dark here, John. We're supposed to be wondering because that presents more fairness for the Defendant or a potential target.

If we know everything, and the court of public opinion can undermine the ability to get a fair trial, a fair jury, and panels, if that were ever to get there.

BERMAN: Based on everything that we do know. And as you correctly know, that's limited what we know. Where do you see things right now?

COATES: Well, this is, first of all, when you're talking about the attorneys wanting to come in, well, we have the reporting from last week, our excellent reporting from our own colleagues about the nature of documents that may have been viewed, whether they were disclosed, or wanting to be disclosed to anyone. The idea of his own statements before our Town Hall with Kaitlan

Collins on his intention to retain documents and believing he had every right to do so. And then the report -- of reports of taste, potentially, that show that he did not believe that he had the ability to show them whenever he wanted to.

We're waiting on all the culmination of that reporting based on that, the length of time and, of course, the January 6 prosecution, which of course, is part of what Jack Smith is looking at. We are really nearing towards the end of an investigation cycle.

Keep in mind as though as well as this. We are, you know, over 500 days away from the Presidential election. But internally, the Department of justice has its eyes on the novelty of this entire investigation against a former President and one who wants to have the RNC nomination again, a purported frontrunner in that very race. And so they already know there are time constraints and when they can launch investigations, launch prosecutions, because they do not want to be seen as interfering with an election.

And so the time light is -- the timeline is already a little bit shrunk for that very reason. But I suspect, given the fact that they have all this information and if intent was all they were waiting for, the reporting has come in and seems to draw a very clear line that they know what that is.

BERMAN: Laura Coates, such important context. Thank you for laying all that out so clearly for us. I appreciate it. Sara?

[11:10:01]

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, John. Kristen Holmes is going to be joining us now in Washington, D.C. She's been following this case and obviously talking with those surrounding Donald Trump. Have you heard following this since have no case and obviously talking with those surrounding Donald Trump. Have you heard anything from them since we have found out that they are -- their lawyers are now meeting with the DOJ?

KIRSTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Sara, we haven't had an official comment from the Trump campaign. However, I did speak to two advisors who gave me some background information on what exactly this is going to look like. What exactly they are trying to ask for. You heard Evan mention this idea that they are characterizing this as prosecutorial misconduct. I am told by one advisor that they plan to provide specific examples of overreach.

Now when I asked what those specific examples were, there was no detail given there. But something to keep in mind that they believe that they have some kind of evidence here. The other thing that I've been told by another advisor that they are planning to argue is that the best thing to do is to close this case before the election.

And essentially alleging that if not, this could lead to election interference. That is something that we have heard from former President Trump and it gives you somewhat of a preview into what he might say if he loses the primary.

As I've heard from these advisers, they believe that this Republican primary field will be completely set by the end of the week or at least almost set and that the election has begun and that's something that they plan to argue again that this could interfere with that election. It gives you a little bit of insight into where their brains are right now.

SIDNER: Yeah. Well, as this goes further and gets closer and closer to the primaries they're going to make that argument. But have they given you any indication about what exactly they are talking to the DOJ about? You said just prosecutorial misconduct, overreach, but any specifics, not even one?

HOLMES: Not even one specific and I have asked routinely what exactly they believe was prosecutorial misconduct as well as details into what they are saying was overreach, what kind of examples that they have. Again, I have not heard back on anything specific as to what they believe that this overreach was.

SIDNER: Well, I'm sure we're going to hear from someone in this case after this meeting. We appreciate your time, Kristen Holmes and your reporting. Kate.

BOLDUAN: So now turning now to a CNN exclusive. U.S. Intelligence sources say Ukraine has a network of secret agents working inside Russia and helping to sabotage Russian forces. Ukraine has and according to this reporting, Ukraine is arming those agents with drones. And U.S. officials believe that these pro-Ukrainian agents inside Russia may have been behind the drone attack in Moscow earlier -- early last month.

Joining us now for more on this and quite a few topics actually, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. He sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. It's good to see you, Senator.

Let's start there with this new reporting coming out of essentially described as pro-Ukraine sabotage cells in Russia and Ukraine arming them with drones. What's your -- what's assessment of kind of that is a strategy? Do you think it is a smart strategy and could give Ukraine an upper hand in this?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Kate, it's great to be with you. And I'll have to get more details on this report, which, as you said, has just come out. President Biden has been clear that as we provide more and more military assistance to Ukraine to fight back against Russian aggression, most recently starting the training of pilots on F16s. That our rules of the road are that Ukraine cannot use that U.S. Military equipment on offensive operations inside Russia. But, of course, that does not constrain Ukraine from doing what it thinks is best with their own resources.

So in terms of the U.S. participation, though, we have made it very clear that those weapons cannot be used again inside Russia.

BOLDUAN: And the idea more broadly of Ukraine kind of taking the fight to Russian territory. It's been a source of concern all along from the Biden administration, as you've noted. Concern that be it with U.S. weapons or others, it will lead to the war escalating and lead to drawing the United States potentially into it even further. But do you -- and do you see that happening here? I mean, we are now seeing a definite uptick in attacks on Russian soil.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, a couple of things. I mean, first of all, as you know, President Zelenskyy and Ukrainians are going to soon mount their spring offensive. President Zelensky just announced that the other day. That, of course, is to reclaim territory. Russia is taken within Ukraine.

Look, the Ukrainian people are taking direct hits on their soil every day, including bombing on Kiev and other civilian targets, war crimes being committed against them. So I think it's a lot to ask them not to use and be able to use their own resources to take some of these actions in Russia, If, in fact, that is what's happening here, as the reporting you -- you cited suggest.

[11:15:12]

But again, I do support the President's clear distinction here between what Ukraine does with its own resources and what they do with U.S. supplied weapons.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Let me ask you about something else. We have this new video that the Pentagon has released and then the Pentagon really speaking out and releasing this new video and slamming China right now of a Chinese military ship. It's being seen -- it's seen cutting off a U.S. Navy destroyer at sea in the Taiwan Strait. When you're coming within -- the reports are coming within 150 yards of the U.S. Ship, forcing the Navy destroyer to like abruptly slowdown in order to avoid a collision.

It's no secret that US-China relations, as you well know, is at a historic low. What -- how do you see this near collision, kind of given this context?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, Kate, this was another provocative action taken by China, a series of provocative actions here. Here, we were conducting joint exercises with our Canadian partners. The United States has been very clear that we do not seek conflict with China. But we've been equally clear that we will defend our rights and the rights of our partners in the region when it comes to a free and open Pacific, meaning freedom of navigation and making sure that our ships can continue to conduct themselves in accordance with international rules.

So it's China that has been provoking in this case. The United States has tried to reach out to have talks at the Secretary of Defense level with China. So that at least we have a hotline to reduce the chances of accidental conflict. So far, China has rebuffed those efforts.

BOLDUAN: Along that vein, I wanted to ask you, Jake Sullivan said yesterday that Biden will meet with Xi Jinping the way he put it is, at some point. Would you advise the President to have that meeting sooner rather than late or given what we've seen and you've witnessed from China recently, do you think that meeting should be held off?

VAN HOLLEN: No, I think it's important that we engage in dialogue with China and that the President should meet with President Xi at a time that they can arrange. But we should also be trying to have this dialogue at lower levels, still high levels, obviously, when you're dealing with the Secretary of Defense.

And we want to make it clear to our friends and allies that we are not seeking conflict here, that we're trying to deescalate, that we're trying to make sure that there are hotlines so that in the event of accidental engagements, they don't escalate into a full blown conflict. And the fact that China has rejected those efforts, obviously, is a concerning sign.

Now I think that we should meet Jake Sullivan, our National Security Advisor, has met with his counterparts, and Secretary Yellen has been engaged in economic conversations. We've been very clear in the United States that we're not trying totally de-couple our economy from China. But we are trying to de-risk it. We want to diversify our supply chains, and we want to limit the exports of very high-end technologies like advanced semiconductors and equipment to manufacture semiconductors to China because they could use that technology in their military.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, those are some of the significant steps that you all have done on a bipartisan basis in the last -- in this -- in this session. Great to have you on, Senator. Thank you for your time. John.

BERMAN: So a victim recovered days after a partial building collapse. Today, the search continues for two others who are still missing. The primary suspect in the disappearance of Natalie Holloway caught on video for the first time since 2010 by our team. We have new details on when he is expected to be in U.S. custody. And Republican presidential candidate Tim Scott, appearing on The View, responding to accusations from Joy Behar that he does not understand systemic racism.

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SIDNER: New this morning, first responders say they found very few and very small pieces of debris after a private plane crashed in Stanton, Virginia. It was a Cessna 580 Citation, and just moments before it went down, F16 fighter jets intercepted the plane for violating restricted airspace over Washington, D.C.

The private plane took off from an airport in Tennessee at 1:13 on Sunday afternoon. It was bound for Long Island, New York. According to flight data, the plane never landed. Instead, it turned around over Long Island and headed in a southwest direction and then at 3:05 it flew over DC restricted airspace. That prompted U.S. Capitol Police to place the capitol complex on an elevated alert. Officials tried but were unable to make contact with the pilot so F16 fighter jets were scrambled to intercept the plane. U.S. Officials authorized them to travel at supersonic speeds to get

there in time and that resulted in a sonic boom that was heard and felt across Washington, D.C. area.

[11:25:06]

you see that sweet dog reacting to that. It was very loud. According to officials, those F16s reached the Cessna around 03:20 p.m. The jet set off flares in an effort to get the pilot's attention. They were never able to make contact with that plane. The Cessna crashed near the George Washington National Forest in Virginia. CNN Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean is following all of this.

That sound was incredibly loud. It scared a lot of people. Pete, what do you know this morning?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CONSULTANT: A lot of people from Annapolis, Maryland all the way to Leesburg, Virginia. We're talking about 60 miles in which people heard this and reported it, Tweeted it, we heard about it, and immediately went to work on trying to figure out exactly how these two incidents were connected.

We now have new reporting that shows a really frantic effort by Air Traffic Control, by these fighter jets, even other civilian airplanes in the area to try and raise this unresponsive flight crew on board this Cessna Citation Jet radioing saying, if you can hear this, come up on this frequency. We even heard the fighter jet saying this is an armed fighter jet. If you can hear us, come up on the emergency frequency and talk to us.

That is what ultimately led to that sonic boom. Those F16s from Atlantic City and Andrews trying to catch up to that Cessna Citation Jet going about 400 miles an hour. What is so disturbing here though is that the crew on board was unresponsive along with the three others on board, really alarming new details here and really underscores that all of the signs right now point to a rapid decompression on board the airplane similar to the Payne Stewart incident back in 1999 that killed that pro golfer and five others on board his Learjet. Really no other explanation right now.

The NTSB is investigating and they are on the scene there. They say it'll take a five mile hike for them to get to the crash site with not all that much debris left. There are very few remains of this plane and a very large crater according to our crew on the scene there. But think about this.

This airplane is pressurized, meaning that the air inside is compressed so that it is breathable more so than the thin air that is outside, just like on a commercial airliner. But if that sacred pressure vessel is compromised in any way, if a door is left open, if there is a leak, if there is some other problem, then that could cause the whoosh of air out of the airplane and make the air not breathable.

It is so dangerous and pilots have only 30 to 60 seconds to respond at this altitude, which is 34,000 feet. They have to do it very quickly and put on oxygen mast or else you see an outcome like this. Although it'll be up to the NTSB to determine the true cause of this accident, Sara.

SIDNER: Pete Muntean, I know you'll be following this investigation. Thank you very much for those new details, appreciate it. Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, 275 people are dead, and there is now growing outrage over how a massive train crash India could have happened, as train service is now resuming on those very tracks and the investigation continues, that's next.

And we're also continuing to follow the breaking news. Lawyer's former President Donald Trump, they're meeting with Justice Department officials right now over concerns they say they have over prosecutorial misconduct in the Special Counsel's investigation. We'll be back with much more on that.

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BERMAN: All right, breaking news. We just learned that Mike Pence, the former Vice President of the United States has just filed his papers. He is now officially a candidate for President for 2024. With us now, CNN Political Rector David Chalian. David, Mike Pence. He is in. This is in advance of the public announcement on Wednesday. The significance of this moment of former VP running against a former President, what a world.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL RECTOR: Yes, and his former running mate, you know, that former President. I mean, John, this gets at the unprecedented nature of this campaign. But Mike Pence making it official, filing that paperwork with the Federal Elections Commission where you make a statement of candidacy and declare your campaign open for business.

Yes, he's going to give that speech in Iowa, as we had previously reported on Wednesday to make sort of the formal splashy announcement. And as you know, Wednesday night he will be appearing on a CNN Town Hall with Dana Bash. But you are right to note this moment.

Look what Mike Pence has been doing in just recent weeks, right. He is clearing away some of the baggage, cobwebs from the Trump administration. He testified with the Special Counsel as it relates to Donald Trump's -- the investigation into Donald Trump's activities in and around the 6th January and the insurrection on the Capitol, it was just reported by CNN last week.

John, you remember that the Justice Department is not going to pursue charges in Mike Pence's own classified documents case, a very different scenario that we see Donald Trump in right now. And now Mike Pence has to prove his worth in this race.

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