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Republican Presidential Field Growing; Trump Special Counsel Nearing Indictment Decision?; Crash Investigation. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 05, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: The speaker emerita, Nancy Pelosi, loosening up her throwing arm. Tomorrow, Pelosi will throw out the first pitch at the Nationals game for its annual Pride Night, the speaker, former speaker, a special guest of Team D.C., an LGBTQ nonprofit group.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope to see you back here tomorrow.

CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: A critical development in the investigation of former President Trump. His lawyers take part in a meeting at the Department of Justice, as the special counsel could be getting closer to a decision on an indictment.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, scrambled jets, a sonic boom and now a mystery. What led to a midair scare over Washington, D.C., and a fatal plane crash with four people aboard? A grisly scene seen at the crash site now leaving investigators with few clues.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And a CNN exclusive: Ukraine sabotage agents inside Russia, secret cells orchestrating attacks on Russian soil armed with drones given to them by Kyiv, even as the U.S. officially says it doesn't support these attacks.

We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: We are following major developments into the investigation of Donald Trump.

Lawyers for the former president just finished a meeting at the Justice Department. This is video from just moments ago showing Trump's attorneys as they left the building after an extensive face- to-face with DOJ officials.

You may recall Trump's lawyers recently requested to meet with the attorney general, Merrick Garland, accusing the DOJ of prosecutorial misconduct. Today's meeting could signal that the special counsel's investigation into Trump's handling of classified documents and possible obstruction is nearing its final stages.

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins us now. Jessica, we were not inside the room there, but, based on what we

know, do we know what took place between Trump's lawyers and the DOJ?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know it was about a 90-minute meeting, Jim.

And despite Trump's lawyers asking to meet with Attorney General Merrick Garland in that letter they sent to DOJ last month, our team in fact has learned that the attorney general was not in attendance. So there is some question here as to exactly why Trump's team met with DOJ. They had, of course, asked for that meeting to discuss what they allege is prosecutorial misconduct.

But it's also possible that Trump's lawyers were called in because special counsel Jack Smith's investigation is in these final stages that we have been reporting. And, interestingly, to that end, our team has also learned that the grand jury is expected to hear testimony this week from another witness in the classified documents probe.

They will be hearing that testimony at the federal courthouse. Notably, this is the first time in a month that this grand jury has met. The last time was May 5. So the questions are, will they just hear from a witness or could they potentially be voting on any indictment?

We know, Jim, that Trump's lawyers have really been pushing back hard throughout this process. Trump posted the letter on his TRUTH Social page that his legal team sent to DOJ late last month.

And it said this, in part: "No president of the United States has ever in the history of our country been baselessly investigate in the such an outrageous and unlawful fashion."

That was last month. We know that Trump also posted a similar sentiment on his TRUTH Social page earlier today. But, Jim, it is very clear here that the special counsel's probe is nearing an end. And when that happens, we will see if Trump will face any charges related to his handling of classified documents or, of course, his role in the January 6 Capitol attack, because Jack Smith's probe is on both fronts -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, just to be clear that the timing of this particular meeting could be about the request from Trump's attorneys, as opposed to an indicator of where the investigation stands, or we don't know?

SCHNEIDER: Well, we just don't know.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SCHNEIDER: The biggest clue is that Trump's lawyer sent that letter requesting a meeting late last month. Today, they were at DOJ.

But we really don't know what transpired inside that room, except for the fact that it was a rather lengthy meeting, about 90 minutes -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Understood.

Jessica Schneider in Washington, thanks very much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, let's bring in Andrew McCabe. He's a former FBI deputy director and a CNN senior law enforcement analyst.

So, Andy, as we're noting here, right, you have Trump's attorneys who are alleging prosecutorial misconduct. So far, though, they have not shown any evidence of this, at least publicly.

What do you make of that?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Brianna, these meetings only come at the very end of the investigative process typically right before a prosecutor decides whether or not to essentially give the case to the grand jury to vote on an indictment.

They are typically a Hail Mary. It's the attorneys' last chance to try to avoid their client getting indicted. In this case, I think it's an even bigger Hail Mary. The only way that DOJ, in the form of the attorney general, could intervene and essentially waive the special counsel office if he removes him.

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And the only way to do that is a substantiated allegation of misconduct. So that seems to be what they're gunning for here. That is a very, very hard thing to prove, and seems unlikely to be successful.

KEILAR: So it has to be substantiated.

In -- so far, at least from what we have heard, that doesn't appear to be the case. Of course, there are some things we may not be privy to. But then do you see this as sort of just a box-checking, sort of a perfunctory step toward the end of this process on the part of his attorneys then?

MCCABE: On the part of DOJ, likely.

On the part of his attorneys, no. They're very focused on this. If there's a one-in-a-million-chance of avoiding getting their client indicted, they're going to try that. I should say, however, though, the generalized claim, that allegation that there's been misconduct is greatly undercut by the extensive amount of litigation that we know has happened in this case already.

We know that they went before a federal judge and proved to a federal judge that there was probable cause to believe there was evidence of a crime in Mar-a-Lago. Then they executed that search warrant, found the evidence. We know that they went before a judge and made a prima facie case indicating that Donald Trump and his attorney were using the attorney-client privilege to either commit or conceal a crime.

That's how they were able to pierce the attorney-client privilege.

KEILAR: Take us inside of a meeting like this. How does it go? MCCABE: You know, it's rare, in that it really only happens in some

of the biggest and most high-profile cases.

Typically, attorneys for the defendant or the target will come in and say, you shouldn't indict my client because, first, you have a weak case. And then they will emphasize all the good facts that support their argument that their client hasn't done anything illegal. Then they will say, and it would be unfair to do so and point out all those things.

In this case, they will compare that no other president has ever been investigated in quite this way. But it's always a bit of a long shot. And on the other side of the table, you usually get a very chilly reception. DOJ says very little. They never show their cards. At the end of the meeting, they're likely to simply say, thank you for coming in, appreciate your time, and we will let you know what happens.

KEILAR: It's really interesting to hear you describe that.

So, a Hail Mary happens obviously at the end of the game when there are mere seconds left. If this is an indication that the process is nearing its end, how long until there is a decision on an indictment?

MCCABE: Very hard to say with specificity.

I think we can confidently say that they are very close. These meetings, as I said, typically only happen at the very end, when the prosecutors are contemplating going in front of the grand jury and giving them the case for a vote. That could happen any time, really between the next few days to certainly the next few weeks.

KEILAR: We will be watching. That is very soon.

Andy McCabe, thank you so much.

MCCABE: Thanks.

KEILAR: Boris.

SANCHEZ: Right now, federal officials are in Virginia trying to solve the mystery behind a private plane crash.

The plane was a Cessna Citation similar to the one you see here. Now, just before the crash, fighter jets intercepted the plane in the airspace over the nation's capital. The plane actually took off headed from East Tennessee to Long Island, New York, but, instead of landing there, it turned around and it flew into Washington, D.C.'s restricted airspace.

So U.S. Capitol Police put the complex on elevated alert. Fighter jets were scrambled and authorized to go to supersonic speeds, causing a sonic boom over the region. Security cameras and home videos captured that moment. Watch this.

Officials say they tried to make contact, but the pilot was unresponsive. The fighter jet pilots apparently set off flares, trying to get the pilot's attention. But it didn't work and the plane crashed.

We want to take you live now near the crash site in Staunton, Virginia, with CNN's Brian Todd.

And, Brian, you have new details about what first responders encountered, what the scene was like when they first got there. What can you tell us?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Boris.

As we speak, NTSB investigators are deep into these mountains sifting through the wreckage site right now. And to get there, you can kind of see behind me just what they had to go through. Look at this terrain behind me. You can see the cut in these mountains here, the deep valleys, the steep terrain, the steep mountains.

This is what they had to go through last night, the first responders who got there initially. And I talked to four of them earlier today. This was the first team that got on the site last night. They said it took them two hours on foot just to get there from where they left their vehicles. And, once they got there, they found a lot of wreckage of the site.

We spoke to the fire chief of Augusta County, the fire and rescue chief, Greg Schacht, not long ago. He talked to us about what they went through to get to the site and what they found once they got there.

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GREG SCHACHT, AUGUSTA COUNTY, VIRGINIA, FIRE CHIEF: Very hard to get to. A lot of overgrowth. And they had areas where they actually had to get on their hands and knees and crawl to get under the brush to get into it.

You could tell that there was some debris, as well as some logs and things burning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: Now, another member of Greg Schacht's team told me that, once they got to the site, they did recognize what he said were maybe four or five pieces of recognizable wreckage.

But he said, those were no bigger than your arm.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

TODD: Everything else there, including human remains, was in very small fragments.

But what we're told is that they're looking for possibly to see whether there are black boxes at the site now. We're told, though, that this plane was not required to have any black boxes, like the cockpit voice recorder and other recordings. So we will see if they find that, Boris.

But it's going to be a tough task to come through that wreckage and then get all of it airlifted out of here. Again, you can see the train behind me. They're not far from us, a couple of miles away, but it takes hours and hours just to get to that wreckage site, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, some key pieces of evidence hidden in that dense wood. It's going to be a difficult investigation.

Brian Todd from Staunton, Virginia, thank you so much.

We want to dig deeper now on some of the unanswered questions in this mysterious crash.

And, with us, we have CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean.

Pete, the thing that stands out, I think, initially, is the flight path.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes the flight path really shows, in essence, that it was a ghost plane, that nobody on board was responding to not only the frantic and frenetic calls from air traffic control, from these fighter jets from Atlantic City and Andrews -- Joint Base Andrews, but then also even other civilian planes that were trying to get in touch with this plane over the radio, trying to raise it on the emergency frequency and try to talk them down.

You can see the path here, from Elizabethton, Tennessee, up towards Long Island. That was the planned arrival point...

SANCHEZ: Right.

MUNTEAN: ... MacArthur Airport in Long Island. Then the flight sort of inexplicably turned.

It never made any sort of descent. It was at 34,000 feet this entire time as it went over Virginia and the Eastern Shore of Maryland, Delaware, and South Jersey. And it turned back towards essentially the original destination. That may be a coincidence here. We're not totally sure yet.

To command the descent, if the airplane was on autopilot, and the crew was unresponsive, there must have had to be some sort of human interaction to try and get the airplane to come down. But if the airplane remained on autopilot, that is a big sign. And it points to something here where it could have been a rapid decompression of the pressurized aircraft cabin, meaning that the pressurization inside, the breathable air inside, lets out, and then the thin air outside is what is inside the airplane.

You can't breathe that for very long.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MUNTEAN: You should probably advanced this year just a little bit to -- let's go to the next one. This is what happens if you're up high. The plane was at 34,000 feet,

so 35,000 feet, 30 to 60 seconds of useful consciousness if a rapid decompression happens. So the pilots have to act very quickly...

SANCHEZ: Right.

MUNTEAN: ... to put on oxygen masks to try and continue to operate the airplane. But the symptoms are sort of insidious.

They can sort of range here, hypoxic, hypoxia, headache, decreased response to stimuli, impaired judgment, drowsiness and visual impairment. These are the basic symptoms. But it gets worse and worse. And pilots train for this in a chamber where they can actually raise the altitude artificially, and they can play patty-cake, but they start to get a little woozy and drunk.

They start to have a hard time with simple tasks.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MUNTEAN: And then, ultimately, what sets in is the fact that they just essentially pass out and lose consciousness.

SANCHEZ: And if you only have 60 seconds, as you said, to react to that, that could wind up causing something like what we saw happen to Payne Stewart and his crew.

MUNTEAN: Yes, that's exactly right in 1999.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MUNTEAN: And this is why we bring this up, because these two incidents are so similar, right? So, another corporate type business jet -- in this case, it was a Learjet -- the most recent case, it was a Citation -- but up high, there was an issue that caused a rapid uncontrolled depressurization of the airplane.

And then fighter jets also, similarly, came up to try and chase this airplane down. And then, ultimately, the airplane ran out of fuel and went into a field in South Dakota.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MUNTEAN: So a lot of similarities between these two incidents. Of course, the NTSB has its work cut out for it to try and really figure out if this was a rapid decompression of this airplane.

SANCHEZ: And we also want to find out from you, Pete, what is a sonic boom?

Because a lot of folks heard it. It was startling yesterday in the afternoon.

MUNTEAN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: And they were trying to figure out what happened. MUNTEAN: We're talking an area like hundreds of miles wide, where people heard this, like Annapolis, people in Maryland. People heard it in Leesburg, Virginia.

So, a sonic boom is essentially what happens when an airplane reaches the speed of sound and goes through the speed of sound, and then the sound sort of catches up with it. So, usually, depending, on the altitude, 750 miles an hour. It's like a big crack of thunder. You saw it there in the sound bite earlier.

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And it can shatter glass, plates, windows, things like that. So it can be very damaging, but, usually, you don't hear it over the mainland United States.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MUNTEAN: It's not something that's very common.

And fighter jets that practice this usually do this out over the water or in areas that are very, very unpopulated. You wouldn't hear this very often. This jet that they were trying to catch up with to intercept it to see what the deal was because it was going towards D.C., they had to get to it faster than it was going.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MUNTEAN: It was going 400. You have to catch up to it; 750 miles an hour, that's what makes sense.

SANCHEZ: Right. Yes.

So, Pete, while we have you, there is reporting that the FAA has temporarily suspended some flights because of an unauthorized drone. What can you tell us about?

MUNTEAN: We're following this right now. There are issues in Pittsburgh. And the FAA has put out an alert because there was an unauthorized drone flying near the airport. It's caused arrivals to be slowed down there.

The delays should -- are supposed to end. They were initially supposed to end at 1:00 p.m. We will see if they have extended that. But, of course, this is a huge problem, drones intermixing with commercial airplanes. This is the result, delays.

SANCHEZ: A lot to get through there. Pete, we appreciate you walking us through all of it.

MUNTEAN: Any time.

SANCHEZ: Of course -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Beijing did it again, China testing the United States, sailing a massive warship dangerously close to a U.S. Naval destroyer. This comes just days after a Chinese fighter jet harassed an American surveillance jet. Is potential escalation in the cards?

Plus, troops on the move in Ukraine. Kyiv says they are advancing in several directions in the east. Could this be the beginning of the expected counteroffensive?

And two big-name Republicans have made it official. Who's now in the presidential race and who's out? All of that and much more ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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KEILAR: In the race for 2024, former Vice President Mike Pence just filed paperwork to run for president. He is set to formally announce his candidacy on Wednesday ahead of a CNN town hall that evening.

CNN political director David Chalian joining us now with more.

Things are getting -- they're getting kind of busy, right?

(LAUGHTER)

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: They are.

KEILAR: So, you have the field expected to grow even more this week. Chris Christie and North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum are expected to announce their candidacies this week. Is that really going to shake things up?

CHALIAN: Well, the sheer size of the field will have an impact here, potentially, because as the portion of the field not named Donald Trump gets larger and larger, if he's got a locked-in level of support, they have to slice the others, the other voters out there more thinly, if it's a large group.

This is part of why we heard from Sununu today that he wasn't getting in. But, Brianna, Mike Pence filing paperwork to run for president, I mean, this is an unprecedented moment here in our lifetime of seeing a -- somebody who served as a loyal vice president for four years, a running mate, now challenging his former boss for the nomination, with whom he has had has had a historic split in the aftermath of January 6.

KEILAR: I'm so glad you highlight that. Sometimes, I think the storylines are pretty extraordinary. And we can miss one like that. But it really is extraordinary.

Nikki Haley making her pitch to voters in the CNN town hall last night. She's trying to set herself apart from some of her Republican counterparts in this race. She did say this on Ukraine. Let's listen.

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NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ukraine has the ability to win. But we have to think bigger than that. And for them to sit there and say that this is a territorial dispute, that's just not the case, to say that we should stay neutral.

It is in the best interest of America,it's in the best interest of our national security for Ukraine to win. We have to see this through. We have to finish it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A lot of people agree with that on both sides of the aisle. But I wonder, in the Republican primary process, that product that she's selling...

CHALIAN: Yes.

KEILAR: ... are there buyers for it?

CHALIAN: There are. I think there is a swathe in the Republican electorate that it's still sort of the old-style Republican foreign policy of America's place in the world and where it stands, less the isolationist sort of angle that we have seen from Donald Trump, or, in this case, Ron DeSantis as well, that she's saying there.

I thought it was actually one of her strongest moments in the town hall, because it was fundamentally rooted in her belief system, even though she understood it's not where everybody is in the party, but saw it as an opportunity to differentiate herself and carve out some space for herself in this race.

KEILAR: Yes, and a moment for her to be authentic.

You mentioned Chris Sununu saying he's not going to run, New Hampshire governor. He said this to our Dana Bash. Let's listen to part of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): We have taken the last six months to really kind of look at things, where everything is, and I have made the decision not to run for president on the Republican ticket in 2024.

Obviously, a lot goes into that decision, but it's been quite an adventure, but not the end of the adventure, by any means.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Take us through that. Translate that for us.

CHALIAN: Well, he says not the end of the adventure by any means because he also indicated he's likely to pick a horse in this race. He's likely to endorse someone, and he said campaign vigorously for them.

We know he is no fan of Donald Trump. He does not want to see Donald Trump as the nominee. And so he's going to find a way to make that the cause of this campaign season for him, not as a candidate.

I will say it also makes the New Hampshire primary a little more interesting. When you take out a hometown guy, the governor of the state, it may invite more candidates in to compete there seriously, even though it was such a strong proving ground for Donald Trump when he initially sought the nomination back in 2016.

KEILAR: Republican presidential hopeful Tim Scott was on "The View" this morning.

Joy Behar was not there. She's not there on Mondays. But this was such an interesting appearance, because it came on the heels of Behar comparing him to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas last week, where what she said was, these are two men who have talked about pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, but don't understand systemic racism.

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Scott responded to this. Here's how.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNNY HOSTIN, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": You have indicated that you don't believe in systemic racism. What is your definition of systemic racism?

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me ask -- answer the question that you have answered, asked of...

HOSTIN: Or does it even exist, in your mind?

SCOTT: Yes, let me answer the question this way.

One of the things I think about, and one of the reasons why I'm on the show is because of the comments that were made, frankly, on this show that the only way for a young African-American kid to be successful in this country is to be the exception, and not the rule.

That is a dangerous, offensive, disgusting message to send to our young people today that the only way to succeed is by being the exception.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: He didn't answer the question directly. But I'm wondering what you think of his answer.

CHALIAN: Well, I think it has two goals there.

There's the message, which actually kind of reminds me going back a ways now to George W. Bush back in 2000, his initial presidential campaign, when he went to the NAACP, and part of his compassionate conservative message was to take on what he called the soft bigotry of low expectations, right to the NAACP.

So this is a conservative mind-set through line. So that is a message Tim Scott has been espousing for his time in public life, and wanted to stick to that. There's also the political tactic here, right, going into the lion's den, showing you're willing to go to a not-friendly territory. And they were just critiquing him recently.

He's been fund-raising off of that. He will now be able to fund-raise off of this appearance, show supporters or potential supporters he's willing to take his argument anywhere.

KEILAR: It would have been interesting to see him and Joy Behar have a discussion, right?

CHALIAN: It would have been, yes. Yes.

KEILAR: David Chalian, great to have you, as always.

CHALIAN: Sure. Thank you.

KEILAR: Thank you so much -- Boris.

Oh, and I should say be sure to watch as Dana Bash moderates a CNN Republican presidential town hall with former Vice President Mike Pence. This is going to be airing live on Wednesday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: You do not want to miss that.

Still to come, a CNN exclusive about Putin's war on Ukraine, how Kyiv is now working with people inside Russia to unleash sabotage, as Russia claims it's now fighting off a counteroffensive.

And, more than a week later, recovery efforts continue at the site of that partially collapsed apartment building in Iowa. We just got an update about the people who are unaccounted for.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in moments.

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