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Trump's Lawyers Meet With DOJ Officials After Alleging Misconduct In Special Counsel Probe; Ukraine Giving Drones To Saboteurs In Russia; China Warship Harasses U.S. Naval Destroyer. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 05, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: As the special counsel may be getting closer to wrapping up his investigation of his handling of classified documents, attorneys for Donald Trump was spotted at the Justice Department. What we know? Ahead

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Ukraine says there won't be an announcement about a counteroffensive, but Kyiv is saying that its forces are advancing in several places near Bakhmut. So, has it begun?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And they are critical drugs in the fight against cancer but the United States doesn't have enough of them. What the FDA is now doing to address that shortage? We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: New developments in the investigation of Donald Trump. Lawyers for the former president wrapped up a lengthy meeting at the Justice Department today. This is a video of those Trump attorneys leaving the Justice Department this afternoon following an extensive face-to-face with DOJ officials.

The meeting comes after Trump's lawyers recently requested to meet with Attorney General Merrick Garland. They accused the Justice Department of prosecutorial misconduct. Today's talks could signal that the special counsel's investigation into Trump's handling of classified documents as well as possible obstruction is in its final stages.

CNN Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins us now. Two questions for you. First one is 90 minutes was not a short meeting.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Not a short meeting.

SCIUTTO: Do we have any idea what went on inside that room?

PEREZ: We don't. I mean, we spent a lot of time as you see me there on some of that video. We were chasing, trying to figure out where the lawyers meant -- went. We do know, they ended up on the fourth floor, which is the floor where the Deputy Attorney General's office and other offices are.

And one of the things we know that also is that the attorney general was not planning to meet with them. And that's what the Trump lawyers initially said they wanted. They said they wanted a meeting with the attorney general to complain essentially, about the tactics that were being used by the Special Counsel Jack Smith.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PEREZ: We don't know the specifics of what those complaints are. But we know that one of the things we've certainly heard from them in the last few days is this complaint that the -- that the special counsel obtained what they believe to be privileged material -- attorney- client privilege material things that normally are shielded from prosecutors, but which they went to a court and they got a judge to get permission to take possession of.

SCIUTTO: OK. Now, this could -- we know that Trump's attorneys asked for this meeting.

PEREZ: Right.

SCIUTTO: So, this could be simply the Justice Department responding to that. But we also know that the special counsel appears close to wrapping up this investigation. Is it possible this meeting indicates both of those things? They were accommodating the request, but also, he's getting closer to the end.

PEREZ: Absolutely. It's possible that this meeting took that -- the form that a lot of lawyers often get, right? The defendant's lawyers, knowing what could be happening, what could be coming, will ask for a meeting with the Justice Department. It's not unusual for you to get that kind of meeting. So that is possible.

We do know again, Jim, just from looking at what -- you know, observing things at the courthouse. The grand jury that has been looking at this -- handling this case, has not met since this time last month. And we know that they're expected to come in this week for at least one or more witnesses. So, again, those are things that you know, sometimes you have what they call wrap-up witnesses.

SCIUTTO: Right.

PEREZ: Witnesses who have already come in and spoken to investigators. And you want to bring them before the grand jury before you get to that final step of perhaps issuing an indictment.

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Again, we don't know whether that's the case. We don't know who might be indicted. It could be the former president. It could be people around him who are involved in the handling of these classified documents.

SCIUTTO: Understood. So much to watch. The consequential decision to come. PEREZ: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: Evan Perez, thanks so much. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's dig deeper now with some legal analysis. CNN Legal Analyst Jennifer Rodgers joins us to talk about these developments. She's a former federal prosecutor. Jennifer, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

So, this idea of prosecutorial misconduct, Trump's attorneys have not given any specifics on what they might have. But in theory, what kind of evidence would they need to prove that argument?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Boris, that's a good question. I mean, if there's something going awry with the case and they think prosecutors are breaking the rules in some way, maybe they got wind that something inappropriate was done with respect to a witness, for example, then what you usually do actually is you go to the inspector general.

So, the fact that we don't have Team Trump either releasing public information about what they think has been done improperly here or going to the inspector general and asking for an investigation, suggests to me that they don't have specifics about prosecutorial misconduct.

The one thing they have said is they've complained about leaks. But again, I think if they had evidence that it actually was the special counsel and his team leaking, then we would have heard about that. So, I think that's kind of the PR side of things, rather than the legal side of things in terms of these accusations that they've been making.

SANCHEZ: The former president and his team have not been shy to go public with a number of things before this, so that's an interesting point. Now, given the evidence we've heard that the special counsel has on the former president, would you think that this is a kind of Hail Mary moves by his defense team or a desperation play?

RODGERS: Well, I think maybe it's more like asking for the sort of typical meeting that defense lawyers often take with DOJ as Evan was describing in the guise of something that they wanted to sound a little more sinister like DOJ was doing something wrong.

I mean, I'm not surprised that they wanted to go in and make a pitch for why Trump should not be indicted. I just think it -- to ask for that meeting would have almost sounded like they were conceding the charges were coming. Instead, they make it oh, we're complaining about misconduct and that sort of thing. And then probably in the end, they had a more typical meeting than they were leading the public to believe.

SANCHEZ: What does it say to you that the Attorney General, Merrick Garland, was not in that meeting? Is there anything to read into that?

RODGERS: Well, I think -- you know, listen. The attorney general is going to be in almost none of these meetings. That's a totally typical thing. That suggests to me that, in fact, this was a fairly typical meeting, you know. They weren't treating it as anything special.

I don't think Garland particularly would have undermined Jack Smith by attending a meeting that was at least ostensibly to complain about Jack Smith. So, you know, I think this is how these meetings normally go. You don't get to sit down with the attorney general. You sit down with the people who are working on the case under him. So, I think they're just going by the book.

SANCHEZ: Always appreciate your perspective. Jennifer Rodgers, thanks so much for the time.

RODGERS: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Brianna?

KEILAR: In Russia's war on Ukraine, a CNN exclusive shedding light on who may have launched this drone at the Kremlin a month ago. Sources say U.S. intelligence believes that it was likely sabotage agents inside Russia who are working for Ukraine. The sources add that Ukraine has cultivated this network of sympathizers and is supplying them with drones.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is at the Pentagon. She helped break this story. Natasha, what does Ukraine say about this network?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. Well, when we asked Ukraine for comment about what sources had told us, which is that Ukraine had been cultivating this network of sympathizers and well-trained agents inside Russia to carry out these acts of sabotage, the Ukrainian Security Service gave us a rather colorful quote. And what they said, according to a spokesperson, was that we will comment on instances of cotton only after our victory. Adding that cotton has been burning is burning and will continue burning.

Now, cotton is a slang word that Ukrainians used to mean explosions, usually in Russia and Russia-occupied territory. So, the suggestion there from that Ukrainian spokesperson is that these mysterious fires, explosions, drone strikes will continue. And this is something that U.S. officials say is actually a pretty strict -- smart military strategy.

Publicly, U.S. officials have said we do not want to see Ukraine or Ukraine-backed groups carrying out these kinds of strikes inside Russia because we don't want the war to expand. But privately, U.S. and Western officials say that it's a savvy military strategy because it will divert Russian attention and Russian resources away from the battlefield in Ukraine and towards actually protecting its own territory in Russia, not to mention that it will essentially bring the war at home to Russia directly and home to ordinary Russians and everyday Russians.

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And so, what we're told by our sources is that the Ukrainians have really developed this sophisticated network of agents inside Russia, who are believed to have carried out that attack on the Kremlin earlier or I should say, last month, with those two drones that of course, the Kremlin was so outraged about.

But again, this is something that U.S. and Western officials see as a relatively low-cost, low-risk way for Ukraine to divert Russian attention away from the battlefield and towards protecting its own territory, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, great reporting. Natasha Bertrand, thank you for that. And a top Ukrainian official repeated today that there will be no announcement when this major counteroffensive against Russia is underway.

But also today, a defense ministry -- minister did note that Ukrainian forces have "advanced in several directions in the east in this long- disputed Donetsk region. The top general in the U.S., the Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley, said that he believes Ukraine is ready for what lies ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS: So, I think it's too early to tell what outcomes are going to happen. I think the Ukrainians are very well prepared. As you know very well, the United States and other allied countries in Europe and really around the world have provided training and ammunition and advice, intelligence, etcetera to the Ukrainians.

We're supporting them. They're in a war that's an existential threat for the very survival of Ukraine. And has greater meaning to the rest of the world for Europe, really, for the United States, but also for the globe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now, we have CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. You heard what we are just hearing now that this Ukrainian offensive is taking place in several directions, according to an official. I mean, are we seeing the beginnings of this?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think we are, Brianna. And you know, when you're looking at the various places that the Ukrainians could attack, you're basically looking at this area right here. This junction is between the southern fronts and the eastern fronts.

You're also looking in the -- toward the east right here. And potentially, potentially, even though we haven't heard much about it, the area just to the northeast of Kherson. So, these are the potential areas where they can do this on the map of Ukraine. But when you go beyond that, there's other stuff obviously going on in Russia, and potentially anywhere else that Ukrainians feel they need to.

KEILAR: Russia is claiming they've repelled a large-scale attack right in -- where you're talking about there. Ukraine has a pretty much-been mum. And we're seeing that. They've emphasized that being secretive, but at the same time, I mean, you will see sort of what's happening. What do you make of all of this sort of the delay and the be quiet? What do you make of it?

LEIGHTON: Yes. So, when it's -- when people are quiet, there's usually either no good news to report or they're keeping something secret in order to do something else. So, in this particular case, we're looking at several things going on basically down here, where the Russians we're talking about potentially hurting the Ukrainians in this area.

You also have the town of Vuhledar, which is a key point where the Ukrainians are moving forward. And the very infamous city of Bakhmut that we've been talking about for over nine months now. The Ukrainians are actually making games around Bakhmut in both sides, our reporting is that this is happening.

So, given that that's going on, there's a lot of mixed messaging here. And right now, we really don't know who's ahead or who's behind. But it's pretty clear that at the moment, the Ukrainians for the most part are moving forward in certain areas, including right here in Avdiivka as well.

KEILAR: Really fascinating reporting from Natasha Bertrand that you just heard about there. These sabotage agents inside of Russia that Ukraine is providing with drones. And there have been a lot of attacks, hard to know exactly who you attribute these to, but we know that some of them are attributable to the sabotage agents. What do you make of this?

LEIGHTON: So, Brianna, you see a lot of symbolic attacks like the one at the Three Sisters monument, which is the trying point between Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine. I -- that you know, is an area where the Russians actually attack this part. However, I -- there's a symbolic piece to this.

You have the Ukrainians doing things allegedly in Smolensk, obviously in Moscow. Kursk, Voronezh, and of course Belgorod. Several attacks -- many attacks right in this area right here. And then you also have the area around Mariupol.

So, what the Ukrainians are doing is they're in essence shaping the battlefield. They are keeping the Russians off balance by doing stuff all over here in Russia itself, while they are also moving forces in Ukraine.

So, what they're doing here is very different from what they're doing over here. This is unconventional warfare. Unconventional warfare with the purpose of destabilizing the Russians and destabilizing the Russian response.

KEILAR: Can we look at what's happening in Belgorod? I know you have a video of this.

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This is, of course, the Russian side of the border. This is where so many assets were being sent into Ukraine at the beginning of the war from Russia. What do you see happening here?

LEIGHTON: So, what you see here, Brianna, is you know, you're going after places that look like they might be supply depots. You also have areas in forested areas where people would hide tanks, artillery emplacements, things like this. A lot of this -- these are villages near Belgorod.

And in this particular case, you see areas where there's movement forward along routes like this one right here, and they can try to interdict that. The Ukrainians can try to stop movement on this by doing some calculated moves in this area using their drones and other assets to go in and really make it rough for the Russians in this area.

KEILAR: It is really interesting to see this battlefield expand and to learn why it is. Thank you, Colonel, for taking us through that.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Brianna.

KEILAR: Jim?

SCIUTTO: New details on the deadly plane crash that left a crater in a little house. It's the same plane that have military jets scrambling over the Capitol. We're going to have more on that.

Plus, a shortage of cancer-fighting drugs in the U.S. is forcing the FDA to allow imports now from China. What this means for Americans battling the disease? And hey, Siri is about to lose the hey. More on Apple's big announcements today.

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SANCHEZ: We want to take you now live to the podium in the press room at the White House where NSC Spokesperson John Kirby is discussing a close call between two warships, one Chinese and one American. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Particularly of the intercepts. And of course, they brought up issues of human rights as well as we always do. It's important to have these communication vehicles open. It's important to be able to have those kinds of conversations. And I think we're a whole lot less worried about the date on the calendar than we are about what's on the agenda when we start talking to them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Aside from expressing verbal concerns and communicating with Beijing, our displeasure with this is the United States kind of letting any kind of response to back China down from its increased aggressiveness. KIRBY: We have continued to convey that message to them. I mean, obviously, we're not in control of their military and their military assets or their military leaders. They -- we urge them to make better decisions about how they operate in international airspace and sea space.

Whether they acknowledge those rules of the road or not, they are the rules of the road. And for a nation like China that continuously touts international law and sovereignty and territorial integrity, you would think that they would understand when a vessel or an aircraft is operating, in fact, in international airspace and sea space. We're going to keep standing up for those rules of the road. We're going to keep standing up for that international law.

And as I said earlier, we're going to keep flying, we're going to keep sailing, we're going to keep operating where international law allows us to. It's an important concept, freedom of navigation. Whether it's in the air or on the sea, it's an important concept that the United States is going to continue to stand up for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. On Ukraine, what is your understanding of whether the counteroffensive has begun -- has begun?

KIRBY: I'm not going to be talking for the Ukrainian military. That's for them to speak to. And I think you heard them say earlier today that they -- that they're conducting some offensive operations.

But I won't go beyond that. That's for them to speak. You know what I can speak to is how hard we work to prepare them to be ready. So, whether it's starting now or starting soon or whatever they decide to step off, and whatever they decided to do, the president is confident that we did everything we could over the last six, eight months or more to make sure that they had all the equipment, the training, the capabilities to be successful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks. Back to China. Do you think though, all of these incidents are sort of an effort to intimidate or impact other channels of communication that you are trying to keep open, or do you see them compartmentalizing the military sort of realm from you guys trying to send Lincoln over there and Yellen over there and Raimondo?

KIRBY: It's difficult to know, for sure, Jenny. I mean, obviously, when you fly and sail as aggressively -- and you saw the video for yourself, I mean, you don't need me to tell you how aggressive it was. You're trying to send some kind of a measure -- a message. At the very least, it's a statement of some sort of displeasure about our presence in that part of the world.

But as the president said, very clearly, in Hiroshima, we are a Pacific power. We're not going anywhere. We've got serious commitments in that part of the world.

Five of our seven treaty alliances are in the Indo-Pacific. The vast majority of international economic trade flows through the Indo- Pacific. We've got real needs there, and we're going to stay there. And we're going to continue to strengthen and revitalize those alliances and partnerships.

So, again, I can't speak for the PRC, wouldn't do it. But if the message that they're trying to send is that we're not welcome, or our presence needs to be diminished, or they want us to stop flying and sailing and operating in support of international law, not going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you say though, as this is going on, that you're continuing to make progress in setting up these visits for Secretaries Blinken, Yellen, Raimondo?

KIRBY: Yes. I think the fact that we were able to get two officials there to Beijing here while we're talking is a good sign, we want to keep those lines open. It's important especially as I said now. So, in general, without predicting what the next visits going to be or by whom or when, yes, we are feeling like we are making progress in terms of opening up additional lines of communication.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you (INAUDIBLE). Thank you, Tom. I have quotations. National Security Adviser Sullivan said there, last weekend that the United States calls to talk with China and Russia for nuclear disarmament.

As the -- you know, North Korea has nuclear weapons, whether we admit it or not. Do you think nuclear disarmament is a topic within North Korea possibly to be resolved within North Korean nuclear issues, or will you continue to wait for the talk with North Korea?

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KIRBY: It's not about waiting, Janee (PH). We have made it clear to Kim Jong-un and the regime in Pyongyang that we're willing to sit down without preconditions to talk about the denuclearization of the peninsula.

That hasn't changed. We're not -- it's not about waiting. We continue to send that message. What we haven't gotten is any indication from Pyongyang that they're willing to engage in those kinds of talks, but the offer still stands.

And the UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) -- question. Is there some possibility of sequencing the visits differently? So, Secretary Yellen has talked about sequencing being an issue, which sort of implied that you know, perhaps Blinken should go first. But given the challenges and the sort of political and realm and in the military route, does it make sense to foreground the economic visits first, that the economic team go first in terms of visiting?

KIRBY: Yes. That putting that cart way ahead of the horse right now. We're glad that we were able to get this visit in Beijing, and we'll see what they come back with. I mean, clearly, one of the goals was to advance the communication with the PRC and see what we can do to get these higher-level visits in play. We're just not there yet to talk about sequencing or specific scheduling. But you know, we're hopeful, and we'll see what they come back with and what we're able to talk about.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the -- on the NATO Secretary General succession thing, this is an issue. Do you know whether the president intended to speak with the Danish Prime Minister about that today and whether he has any thoughts about the importance of having a woman to lead NATO? What's your stand?

KIRBY: That is not the purpose for the trip, not the purpose for the conversation. I sort of detailed in my opening statement what they're really going to focus on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I can shift gears to two different topics. One is how you will interpret Saudi Arabia's decision to unilaterally cut oil production.

KIRBY: Let them speak for their decision to cut production. What we're going to stay focused on is making sure that there's a balance between supply and demand. You see, the price of oil was not dramatically affected by this announcement of these additional cuts and the price of gasoline continues to come down.

So, the president's going to stay focused on what's best for the American people, what's best for our economy, and making sure that we're -- that we're looking after those needs and let the Saudi Arabians speak for themselves in terms of this decision to cut.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And on a separate topic. I also wanted to ask you about another visit from a foreign leader coming up later this month, India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

KIRBY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know you will have made a very large focus in this administration on the divide between autocracies and democracies. And there have been questions about the health of India's democracy under Narendra Modi. I wanted you to articulate why have the invitation for the state dinner, and they're (INAUDIBLE). Why --

KIRBY: India is a strong partner on very, very many levels with the United States. You saw that in Shangri La, Secretary Austin announced some additional defense cooperation now that we're going to pursue with India. Of course, there's an awful lot of economic trade between our two countries.

India is a member of the Pacific Quad, in -- a key friend and partner with respect to Indo-Pacific security. I could go on and on and on. There's innumerable reasons why India certainly matters not just bilaterally between the two of our nations but multilaterally on very many levels.

And the president is looking forward very much to having Prime Minister Modi here to talk about all those issues and to advance and deepen that partnership and that friendship. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then to follow is, is this administration at all concerned about the health of democracy in India?

KIRBY: India is a vibrant democracy. Anybody that you know happens to go to New Delhi can see that for themselves. And certainly, I would -- I would expect that the strength and health of democratic institutions will be part of the discussion.

And look, we never shy away. And you can do that with friends. You're supposed to do that with friends. If -- you've never shy away from expressing concerns that we might have with anyone across -- around the world. But this visit is really about advancing what is now and what we hope will be a deeper, stronger partnership and friendship going forward.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John, with Ukraine being an important topic this week with the Prime Minister today and the UK here this week, when you consider the president's investment -- the United States and allies' investment in Ukraine.

Does the president want to see Ukraine adhere to some of the president's wishes with respect to aggressive moves within Russia, with reports of the covert action on the part of Ukraine having the ability to act inside Russia?

KIRBY: Well, I can tell you that the Ukrainians have already spoken to some of these "raids."