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Donald Trump's Defense; Christie Slams Trump; GOP Reaction to Trump Case; Nine Injured in Denver Shooting; Strike on Residential Building in Ukraine. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired June 13, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That - we're going to get that fixed right now.

My apologies.

There we go.

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You actually want to hear me talk? That's important to you?

BERMAN: It's - yes. Yes.

COATES: OK. Well, that's (INAUDIBLE) -

BERMAN: Thank you very much. It's much better when it's not in mine.

COATES: You know what. There we go. Here we go. We'll restart this.

BERMAN: OK. So, continue.

COATES: So, now that I'm audible, which is a weakness in any prosecution or defense not to be heard. The biggest issue here would be, look, you cannot unlawfully retain documents. That is the crux of their argument, that if you once had the (INAUDIBLE) actually have the documents if you no longer have that authority, as in the clock strikes midnight or 12:00 p.m. for the new inauguration, you no longer have that particular power. That is the crux of this particular case, the idea of the unlawful retention.

And, remember, this is not a matter of personal documents. We're talking about defense-related information. Information that would be harmful to the United States if it was exposed or helpful for somebody who's a foreign adversary. So, the idea of a hand-written post-it note to you that says good job, Donald, not what we're talking about. The nuclear locations, military venerability, are some of the headlines we're talking about here, that's a very different scenario.

BERMAN: So, Shan, the second possible area, and this is sort of distinct from the first, is the argument, which they have not made in court as far as we know, that Trump declassified the documents as president. The strengths and weaknesses here? SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The biggest weakness there is the audio on

Trump himself recognizing that he cannot declassify documents once he leaves. The notion that he had some sort of standing order to declassify has been widely debunked by people who actually work with him. So, I think that's also a weakness. I mean they're a little bit between a rock and a hard place on this because he's been so all over the board as to where he actually declassified or can he do it at will by just thinking about it.

And, of course, the biggest problem with that argument as a defense is that the particular charge, Espionage Act, really does not depend on whether they're classified or not, it's just documents relating to the national defense. So that's a really big Achilles heel for them on that particular defense.

BERMAN: And notable that while they are saying it out in public, they have yet to say it inside court or in a legal document, which does tell you something about what they think of the strength of that.

Laura, selective prosecution. That's another possible avenue here. And that has to do with what we've heard again publicly. Hillary Clinton. What about Hillary's e-mails? Why wasn't that prosecuted.

COATES: Whataboutism is not going to be a very successful legal argument because you have a thing called prosecutorial discretion. The discretion to figure out, when you want to pursue charges and when you do not. But it's always based on the evidence.

Drawing analogies between the conduct of say Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, or even former Vice President Mike Pence, or even current President Joe Biden, as then vice president, has to do with the conduct at issue not just the existence of information. Remember, Clinton's e-mail server contained classified information, not documents that had the actual tags and the headlines that you saw in physical, tangible documents. And, according to their allegations that are asserted in this particular complaint, Donald Trump did never -- never tried to actually return them. Doubled down, tripled down, quadrupled down that he had every right to access them, to retain them as well.

And the core of this entire investigation and indictment is also obstruction. What did you do to avoid the federal grand jury reviewing this case? What are you doing to avoid any sort of prosecution? Why not just return them and have that be drawn out or considered later on. That's the big question here. And that's the crux, that and a conspiracy.

BERMAN: And, Shan, the last area, and I'm going to add to this, the last area is prosecutorial misconduct, which is a phrase that's been tossed around quite a bit by people close to Trump. And I want to add to this, this idea they are going to fight. And Sara laid out Evan Corcoran's testimony and also the evidence that he provided. They will fight the ruling, which was issued in D.C., that allowed attorney/client privilege to be pierced there. What's the strength and weakness to that? WU: Well, I think we have to actually pars those two out, John.

Prosecutorial misconduct is not going to be the same as them fighting the ruling that judge -- Chief Judge Howell had made about Corcoran's work being part of the crime/fraud exception. That's a legal argument and certainly would be very powerful if they could manage to get that thrown out. It's also powerful to them because there will be a lot of delay in litigating that case.

The prosecutorial misconduct, which will be to argue - it's really a form of the sort of whataboutism issue is that they had done things wrong, they were too aggressive, they're targeting the president, that is usually a pretty weak way to go in terms of attacking the case ahead of time. There may be some jury nullification effects on that if you can portray that in your questions and closing argument. But as a legal basis for really defending it, that's more of an atmospheric than anything else. So I don't know that that's going to be a really strong defense for them.

[09:35:02]

BERMAN: What about fighting specifically, Laura, the attorney/client privilege issue there?

COATES: Yes.

BERMAN: Will they have any luck, do you think, challenging that?

COATES: Well, to actually do this in the first instance was a very huge and monumental decision to pierce the attorney/client privilege. But it seemed at the time in Washington, D.C., the judge said that there was essentially a prima facia case made that the crime/fraud exception was appropriate here. We do not use that privilege as a way to shield people from making crimes. You don't say, you know what, let's plan a crime. Don't worry, I told my attorney about it, we're good to go here. That would be absurd. And so they have to actually reconcile that.

Now, the fact that it's now down, of course, in Florida, very different, could be, but we have no idea standing here right now, what was the deciding factor for the grand jury? Was it Corcoran's testimony? Were there other factors? Even if that privileged discussion does not come in, there are other things that this indictment actually alleges.

BERMAN: Laura Coates, Shan Wu, our thanks to both of you. And, of course, you'd expect maybe them to try all of this, if nothing else, to delay this as long as possible, which may be their best avenue here.

Rahel.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: A lot to watch here, John, thank you.

And still ahead for us, Chris Christie goes on the attack against Trump in a CNN town hall, calling him a three-time loser and a child. Meantime, in Congress, Trump loyalists lashing out at the Justice

Department for the former president's current legal problems. Details on their efforts to defund the special counsel's office.

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[09:40:42]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: This just in, inflation finally cooling. Brand-new data just released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, it shows the Consumer Price Index, a key inflation gauge, ticking up just 0.1 percent. Economists were expecting prices to increase by 0.2 percent from April to May. It's the 11th-consecutive month that inflation, as measured by the CPI, has slowed.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: Some welcome news for sure, Sara, thank you.

Meantime, former New Jersey governor and 2024 presidential hopeful, Chris Christie, not holding back on attacking Donald Trump. At a CNN presidential town hall last night, Christie called Trump angry, he called him vengeful, and slammed the former president for his recent federal indictment in the classified documents probe. Christie also making it clear that he is, so far, the only Republican presidential candidate willing to harshly criticize the current frontrunner.

CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us now.

Omar, look, I don't think it's a surprise that Christie came out swinging here, but what were some of your takeaways?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, look, he did talk about policy on issues like abortion, mass shootings, the future of this country and more. But a big part of the Christie campaign is taking on Donald Trump directly. And he leaned heavily into that.

For example, he didn't just talk about, for example, I should say, when he talked about the House, White House and Senate being lost from Republicans under Trump. He could have just said that. Instead, he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He hasn't won a damn thing since 2016. Three-time loser. 2018, we lost the House. 2020, we lost the White House. We lost the United States Senate a couple weeks later in 2021. And in 2022 we lost two more governorships, another Senate seat and barely took the House of Representatives, when Joe Biden had the most incompetent first two years I've ever seen in my life.

Loser, loser, loser. Now we're getting going. It will be different this time. Why? Why will it be different this time?

(END VIDEO CLIP) JIMENEZ: And I think it was incapsulated by the loser, loser, loser that Christie said there.

Now, on Trump's indictment, Christie believes that the alleged conduct from Trump is inexcusable, especially for someone who wants to be president. But we'll see if - if this spurs any momentum because, obviously, up to this point, Christie has not been polling at the top of GOP leaderboards.

SOLOMON: Yes, Christie clearly coming for Donald Trump but also taking some swipes at his rivals.

Omar Jimenez, great to have you. Thank you.

John.

BERMAN: So, obviously, Chris Christie's been telegraphing those attacks on Donald Trump. We knew where he was coming from. But there's been a notable divide among elected Republicans on the charges here, including from some who have defended Trump in previous moments.

CNN's Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill this morning.

Bring us up to speed on what we're hearing, Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there is really this stark divide. And some of the divide is happening between the House and the Senate. But some of it is just happening between Republicans who feel like it's their job to defend the former president and those who are holding back any comment for now.

One of those members is Representative Dan Crenshaw, who just a few moments ago told our colleague Manu Raju that these are problematic charges and there's a reason that he is not commenting.

You also heard yesterday from Republican whip John Thune, who said that these are very serious allegations. As well as John Cornyn, another member of Republican leadership, who said simply, this is not good.

Meanwhile, you have some Republicans in the House of Representatives who want to take action to try and defend the president, including taking steps like defending the special counsel's office. That is an idea that Marjorie Taylor Greene suggested yesterday. I'm told that she talked about this yesterday with Jim Jordan, the House Judiciary Committee chairman. They discussed it in a House Freedom Caucus meeting.

But it just shows you the lengths that some Republican allies of the former president are going to, to try and defend him.

Meanwhile, you have many who have yet to comment, including the Republican leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnell.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Lauren Fox.

The Dan Crenshaw thing, which just happened a short time ago, that's interesting.

[09:45:03]

You have a conservative - very conservative Republican there, who's defended Trump on some things, but he's also a very pro-national security Republican. We'll see where that goes.

Appreciate the reporting, Lauren. Thank you.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Russia is targeting Ukrainian civilians yet again. Coming up, the latest missile strikes and the search and rescue efforts that are underway now.

Also, new this morning, a woman told 911 she felt threatened, moments before firing a shot through a door, killing her neighbor, an unarmed mother of four.

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SIDNER: A dangerous end to a huge win. The Denver Nuggets, for the first time ever, won the NBA championships. Following the history- making moment though, at least nine people were injured in a mass shooting in the downtown area as crowds gathered to celebrate the Nuggets' first NBA championship.

Let's go now to CNN's Lucy Kafanov. She is live in Denver for more on this story.

Lucy, unfortunate to hear about this shooting. What can you tell us at this hour? We're looking at some of the video from this morning where you see the police tape up and all the officers out there.

[09:50:06]

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sara, good morning.

An unfortunate end to what was supposed to be a joyous evening. Thousands of Denver Nuggets fans took to the streets after the Nuggets clinched their first NBA championship last night, but police say that things turned violent just before 1:00 a.m. Nine people were shot, ten if you count the suspect, who was taken into custody. Police say -- Denver Police say that three victims remain in critical condition at a local hospital. The other victims, including the suspect, appear to have non-life-threatening injuries.

Now, the shooting took place in downtown Denver. Locals refer to this as the LoDo District. It's also near Coors Field and roughly within a mile of the Ball Arena, where Nuggets -- the Nuggets defeated the Miami Heat on Monday night. This area is famous for a lot of sports bars. They were, of course, packed last night as the basketball fans celebrated late into the night. Now, we don't know exactly what led to this violence. Police say that

this is a complex and ongoing investigation that is in its very early stages. The preliminary info indicates multiple shots were fired during that altercation involving several individuals.

Now, this violence is among at least 291 mass shootings in the U.S. so far this year in which four or more people were shot, excluding the shooter. This is according to the Gun Violence Archive. Denver Police are still investigating last night's incident, and they do say that updates will be provided as they are - as they become available. Again, Sara, the suspect, who was injured, is in police custody.

Sara.

SIDNER: Lucy Kafanov, such high highs going down to such low lows. It's sad to see. Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

John.

BERMAN: So, new this morning, Ukrainian officials say at least 11 people are dead in high precision strikes carried out by Russia on civilian targets in the central Ukrainian city of Kryvyi Rih. You can see some of the aftermath right there.

CNN's Sam Kiley reporting now from the capital of Kyiv.

Sam, what can you tell us about these attacks?

SAM KILEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this was after a period of a couple of days really of relative quiet when it comes to air raids by Russia. At least 14 cruise missiles fired across the country on top of that other Shaheeds no doubt blended in with that as part of the ongoing Russian assaults on the civilian infrastructure and civilian population here in Ukraine. In this latest atrocity, 11 people at least killed. At the beginning of the day, two dozen or so were reported to be injured when a residential block was hit in their important central industrial city. This just the latest of what is an ongoing campaign against Russia's civilians with the use of these precision missiles. You use the term advisedly there, John. Cruise missiles are, generally speaking, even the Russian version of them, supposedly deadly accurate. And they have hit clearly - almost certainly with intent, a civilian area of that city.

But this coming at a time when the Russians on the battlefield are under pressure, John. There is ongoing fighting going on in the Zaporizhzhia front line. That is a relatively new development from the Ukrainian side. I think part of the early stages of their counter offensive and they are continuing to advance, they say, southeast of the eastern city of Bakhmut. All of this adding up to an increase in the tempo of the Ukrainian counter offensive. And, of course, they are taking casualties as a consequence of that. They are expecting pretty heavy casualties as this offensive gets underway, John.

BERMAN: All right, Sam Kiley, keep us posted. Again, precision strikes on what the Ukrainians call civilian targets. Notable to say the least. Thank you. Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, John, and in stories on our radar today, a Florida woman charged with fatally shooting her neighbor through a door told dispatchers that she felt threatened. In newly released 911 calls, Susan Louise Lorincz said I'm fearing for my life. I'm very scared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN LOUISE LORINCZ: I'm very scared.

Oh my God, this lady just tried to break down my door. I shot through the door. Oh my God.

DISPATCHER: You said someone tried to break down your door. Is that correct?

LORINCZ: Yes. Yes. The woman was screaming and yelling and she was trying to break down my door and she was -

DISPATCHER: OK, it was a female?

LORINCZ: Yes. I didn't know what to do. I grabbed my gun and I shot at the door. I thought she was going to kill me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: Lorincz is charged with manslaughter with a firearm and other charges. Her neighbor, Ajike "AJ" Owens, knocked on Lorincz's door in a dispute over kids playing outside. The mother of four was rushed to the hospital where she died.

Authorities in Philadelphia, meantime, working to identify the remains found in the collapse of a section of I-95. A tanker truck fire caused a stretch of the highway overpass to really give way.

[09:55:04]

The body found in the wreckage turned over to the medical examiner's office. Crews now working around the clock to try to clear away the mangled wreckage. They say demolition could take five days to complete and it could take months to rebuild the section of the highway.

And a passing to note now. Veteran actor Treat Williams has died. Most recently he starred in the TV dramas "Blue Bloods" and "Everwood." His agent says that he was killed in a motorcycle accident in Vermont. Williams is survived by his wife and two children.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, we are just hours away from the arrest and arraignment of former President Donald Trump in federal court. It is an historic moment that's never happened before with a former president. We're learning about his legal team and who he had dinner with last night and why that's significant. Plus, if the case against former President Trump does go to trial, what would the jury pool look like? We'll speak with an expert about the demographics of south Florida and the challenges both the prosecution and defense could face in seating a jury for this case.

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