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Trump Defiant After Arrest; Trump Pleads Not Guilty; Alberto Gonzales is Interviewed about the Trump Case; Fulton County Sent Teams to Miami and New York City; Carroll to Amend Defamation Lawsuit. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 14, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:39]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New signs this morning about how the twice indicted, twice impeached former president plans to adjust his campaign for office with several court dates pending.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Key economic data just into CNN shows inflation slowing down for the 11th straight month. A sign the Fed rate hikes may be working. So, will they raise them again today? That decision is just hours away.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: And CNN on the front lines of the counteroffensive in Ukraine, speaking to soldiers where the fighting is expected to get even worse. All of those stories and more right here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: This morning, just your average political question, how does a twice arrested former president run for office again while facing multiple national security charges that could put him in jail for the rest of his life, not to mention two unresolved investigations that could still bring more charges, just like they taught in high school civics.

Well, we now see the answer. Hours after pleading not guilty to 37 federal charges that could send the now 77-year-old Trump to jail for decades, the 2024 Republican frontrunner appeared before an adoring crowd at his golf club, talked largely about his own personal grievances and littered it all with dishonest claims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: This is called election interference and yet another attempt to rig and steal a presidential election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Overnight, we did hear new reaction from his 2024 GOP challengers. Mike Pence told "The Wall Street Journal," I can't defend what is alleged. Nikki Haley said she would be inclined or in favor of a pardon for Trump.

There's been no reaction, however, from his biggest Democratic rival. President Joe Biden is staying strategically quiet right now. Will that change?

Also this morning, a clearer picture of what Trump can and can't do now that he has been arraigned. He can keep his passport. He can travel. Now, he can't, however, talk to his co-defendant, Walt Nauta, about the case. Apparently, though, he can go out to a pre-birthday dinner with him, which the pair did immediately after leaving court yesterday.

There is a lot to digest this morning.

Let's begin with Alayna Treene, just outside Trump's golf course in New Jersey.

Alayna, the question we like to ask on mornings like this, what now?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Right. Well, good morning, John.

There's a lot to unpack from that very historic day yesterday. But I want to point to his speech. There were a couple of really striking things that I took away from those remarks at his golf club in Bedminster just near where I am now. And one of them is that he recycled the well-worn Trump playbook that we've seen him use time and time again. He labeled these charges as political. He argued that they amount to election interference. And he also said that he thought he was entitled to taking these classified documents with him after leaving the White House and that others were not prosecuted for doing the same thing.

Let's listen to what he said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Today we witnessed the most evil and heinous abuse of power in the history of our country. A very sad thing to watch. A corrupt sitting president had his top political opponent arrested on fake and fabricated charges of which he and numerous other presidents would be guilty, right in the middle of a presidential election in which he is losing very badly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, John, I should point out that prosecutors of course say that what Donald Trump is saying is not true. They argue that he kept some of the most sensitive national security documents and his refusal to hand them over amounts to obstruction. So that's one thing, I think, that we should point out from last night.

Another thing I found pretty striking was his tone. Even though he was at his golf club in Bedminster, he was surrounded by his most sympathetic supporters and his fiercest allies, the kind of environment that he likes to use to help - you know he relies on to portray that he is defiant, he did sound pretty angry and it's something that when I spoke with advisers they pointed out to me, his tone was more angry than they had been hearing.

[09:05:11] And also I want to add, another thing I found was the substance of this. Many of his advisers have told me -- and people -- allies before the speech wanted the speech to be more forward looking, have it look more towards a 2024 agenda, but he did very little of that. He instead used it to rail against his opponents, John.

BERMAN: So they say he seemed angry on the podium. Maggie Haberman, who's seen a million of his speeches, said a little more subdued than she's seen in the past. What's the mood in the hallways and amongst the trees in Bedminster this morning, Alayna?

TREENE: Well, I think, you know, the Donald Trump we saw last night, the one we saw immediately after his arraignment when he went to that restaurant, the restaurant Versailles (ph) in Miami, that's the Trump that they want you to see and that he's trying to portray. Again, that defiant demeanor that he's pushing back against this. But behind the scenes it is quite different. I've spoken with a number of Donald Trump's allies and his advisers over the past several days and they argue that they are concerned. They are concerned about the legal implications of this indictment. And Donald Trump himself is concerned as well. He's admitted that he doesn't want to be indicted. And so even though what you're seeing publicly is some of this bravado, behind the scenes there is quite a different picture there, John.

BERMAN: All right, Alayna Treene, in Bedminster, keep us posted throughout the morning. Alayna, thank you.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, we're jumping off the campaign trail and inside court. People saw a very different Donald Trump during the 50-minute hearing. Our reporters watched him sit silently, hunched over, arms crossed, with a scowl on his face. Trump did not say a single word to the court. Cameras are not allowed in federal court, but the public is.

Our Katelyn Polantz watched it all go down in court.

And describe for us, Katelyn, the key take-a-ways that you had as you witnessed this moment in the courtroom.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Sara, you say it was a different version of Donald Trump. That's exactly right. It was a silent Donald Trump. A Donald Trump who was never addressed directly by the judge to have to respond with a question, and he never had to stand up and say anything for himself. He uttered not a single word during the court appearance.

Now, this was already a pretty intense room to be in because Donald Trump was sitting fairly close, only a few security guards between the two of them, fairly close to the special counsel, Jack Smith, the man who, by the Justice -- under the Justice Department, his role there, has brought this case against the ex-president.

And throughout this proceeding, Trump clearly had -- he was clearly looking forward, he (INAUDIBLE) exited the room. He took a (INAUDIBLE) good long look at the people behind him, both public, some of his supporters even in the courtroom, and then the press, before he was let out separately from his attorneys. So, he did have the chance to provide that not guilty plea through his attorney. His attorney is the one who actually stood up and told the judge that he would be pleading not guilty to the charges he faces at this time.

And then the other thing that happened that was so intriguing about this was it took a long time for Donald Trump to sign on the dotted line that he was going to be agreeing to conditions of release, that the judge would be placing upon him, including not to talk to his co- defendants about the -- his co-defendant, Walt Nauta, about the details of the case or even other witnesses. And if he doesn't do that, it could be punishable by even detention.

SIDNER: All right, what we didn't see, speaking of Walt Nauta, is his arraignment in federal (INAUDIBLE) same case. Why not?

POLANTZ: Well, Walt Nauta, at this point in time, did not have an attorney in Florida to help represent him. So, he has an attorney who has shepherded him through all of this investigation, including at the time when he was speaking to federal investigators many months ago that became part of the case. That man is named Stanley Woodward. Stanley Woodward was in court yesterday representing Walt Nauta. He also had the same bond conditions placed on him. He was placed under arrest, but it won't be until he gets that lawyer in Florida where he can finally submit his plea of not guilty.

SIDNER: Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much for such great reporting over the last couple of days.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: Sara, a lot more to come here.

As we know, Trump has pleaded not guilty to the 37 federal charges that he broke the law by keeping classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. So, here's what's next for the former president.

So, we heard Special Counsel Jack Smith say that he will seek a speedy trial, but it could be months before the case actually goes to trial. And that's because while federal law forces the government to bring a case to trial within 70 days, well, that deadline can be extended.

[09:10:05]

Then there's the process known as discovery. This is when prosecutors have to turn over their evidence to the defense. Both sides will have to work out a timeline for that. There may also be more court hearings to set deadlines and agreements on how all the evidence should be handled.

There's also the possibility that Trump's legal team files pretrial motions. Now, these motions could ask the judge to dismiss the case or to keep certain evidence from being used at trial. Unclear at this point if or when Trump will be due back in court. But as Katelyn just pointed out, his co-defendant and close aide, Walt Nauta, well, we do know that he is expected to be back in court and set to be arraigned on June 27th.

John.

BERMAN: All right, thanks so much, Rahel.

With us now is former U.S. attorney general and dean of Belmont University College of Law, Alberto Gonzales.

Judge, great to see you this morning.

If I can start with a few basic legal questions about where we are today. Yesterday former President Donald Trump and Walt Nauta were ordered not to talk about this case. They left the courtroom, spent the entire afternoon and evening together as far as we know at a restaurant in Florida, and then ultimately flying back together. And then Donald Trump gave a speech about the case with Walt Nauta standing by. So, how's that supposed to work?

ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, apparently they didn't talk about the case. The order was limited to discussions about the case. Look, the judge did the right thing. They are co- conspirators and they shouldn't be talking about the case.

Now, will they honor that request or that directive by the court? Would we ever find out that it's been violated? Who knows? But it - but it was the right thing.

(INAUDIBLE) say one thing, John, I think it (INAUDIBLE) important to emphasize, I'm hearing Republicans and allies (INAUDIBLE) of the president about, you know, why - why this selective prosecution? Why not Clinton? Why not Biden? Why not Pence even? And the truth of the matter is, there are key significant differences, both in terms of the quantity of documents, the quality or type of documents. These are very, very sensitive. And then, finally, I think the greatest danger to this - to President Trump is the obstruction. When requested to turn the documents over, he not only refused to do that, he took affirmative steps to hide the documents and enlisted the help of others in hiding those documents.

So, the cases are quite, quite different. And when the facts are different, then you're going to get different results. And you'll have different decisions by the prosecutor in terms of the charges.

So, I think it's important for your viewers to understand (INAUDIBLE) between the (INAUDIBLE) the actions and conduct of these other (INAUDIBLE) to what's being alleged (INAUDIBLE) in this indictment.

BERMAN: How, then, would you characterize the arguments that the former president and some of his allies are making because they're saying exactly those things?

GONZALES: Purely political as far as I'm concerned. And there's nothing else to say. How can you defend this conduct? You notice they are not saying that the president is innocent of these charges. What they're saying is, well, these other folks weren't invited and, therefore, why is President Trump being singled out? And the reason he's being singled out, they claim, is because he is a leading Republican challenger to President Biden.

So, as far as I'm concerned, it's very political. It's very discouraging. I think that these kinds of accusations and these kinds -- the characterization of what's going on here, the work of the Department of Justice, I think damages the rule of law, damages confidence of the American people in the Department of Justice, in the rule of law. And that itself is very, very dangerous.

Putting aside what's going to happen to Donald Trump, we, as a nation, are much weaker. It's not a good thing if after this episode the rule of law or the Department of Justice is weakened in terms of the confidence of the American people.

BERMAN: Well, J.D. Vance, U.S. senator from Ohio, is out there saying he's going to block nominations as long as this investigation goes on the way it is basically. Donald Trump, last night in his speech, called this a political persecution out of fascist or communist nations. What's the impact of that type of rhetoric, do you think, Judge?

GONZALES: Well, again, people will then begin questioning decisions and judgments of not just the Department of Justice, but other government institutions. And that's very, very dangerous.

And I would say in response to people who are comparing the United States to other, you know, fascist nations, why don't you go to that country, why don't you engage in that same kind of conduct and see whether or not you get the same type of due process that you're going to get here in this country. So, the comparison again, just political rhetoric as far as I'm concerned.

[09:15:03]

BERMAN: One quick question, I have to let you go, Judge. When I first started covering you, you were, in fact, a judge in Texas. How hard will it be for this to be a speedy trial?

GONZALES: I think it will be extremely difficult because the trial judge has a great deal of discretion, defendants generally have the ability, have the right to make sure that they are prepared to go to trial. And you've got -- of course, this is in the middle of an election season and you've got these other trials. And so those have to all be coordinated. And there will be discussions between the prosecutors in all of these cases.

So, we -- I would hope -- I would like this case to be decided before the election. Whether that's going to happen, I don't know. I see a lot of obstacles to making that happen.

BERMAN: Alberto Gonzales, very nice to see you this morning. Thanks so much for your time. Appreciate it, as always.

Rahel.

Sara.

SIDNER: I'll take it from here.

BERMAN: Sara, it's you.

SIDNER: Hi, John.

BERMAN: Hi.

SIDNER: Good to - good to see you.

The former president is, by the way, still facing other investigations on the state and federal levels. How Georgia law enforcement agencies are preparing for the possibility of a summer indictment.

Also, a miracle in the Amazon. The father of four kids who survived a plane crash, then weeks in the jungle, is talking to CNN. Who those children managed to run into during the 40 days they were in that dense jungle.

And, new accusations against the armorer in the "Rust" movie shooting investigation. What prosecutors say Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was doing the night before the film's cinematographer was shot and killed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:51]

SOLOMON: Welcome back.

While the arrest and arraignment of a former president in the classified documents case captured everyone's attention, there is more deal drama to come. The former president faces a whole host of legal issues from Georgia to New York to Washington.

Let's start in Georgia. In the Georgia election the investigation, led by DA Fani Willis, the sheriff tells CNN that his office sent teams to Miami yesterday and to New York to consult on how they handled security in case of an indictment there. CNN has reported that that could come down this summer over Trump's alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 results.

All right, let's go to New York now because he's already awaiting trial next month - March after pleading not guilty to falsifying business records in a case linked to a hush money payment to Stormy Daniels.

And then just yesterday Trump suffered a legal setback in the defamation lawsuit filed against him by E. Jean Carroll.

CNN's Sara Murray and Kara Scannell join us now with details.

Ladies, good morning. Great to have you both.

Sara, let's start with you. What more are you learning about the sheriff sending teams to both Miami and New York?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, our team has learned - you know, we knew a while ago that they went to New York but they wanted to keep it quiet. But we also learned that they sent a team to Miami as well. And the idea here is they want to feel out how these different courthouses are dealing with the security issues, how they're working with their local and federal partners during a Trump indictment because, frankly, they are bracing for the possibility of that to happen in Fulton County.

And in addition to, you know, wanting to ensure that Donald Trump and any other potential defendants are safe, if they are indicted, if they do have to show up in court, they also want to make sure the DA there and her staff are safe. You know, she's a black woman. She's received a number of threats. She's talked openly about that. So, I think that's top of mind.

SOLOMON: And what is the latest with the investigation in Fulton County?

MURRAY: Well, we're still waiting on the charges. We are expecting an announcement on whether anyone will face charges sometime in these first three weeks of August. She sort of sent smoke signals that that is likely to be the case. And, again, we know that she's looking at a potential racketeering or conspiracy case. So that could be the kind of thing where we could see charges against the former president. We could also see charges against folks in Georgia or other advisers to Donald Trump who participated in these efforts to overturn the 2020 election there. So, we could be talking about multiple defendants in that case.

SOLOMON: And, Kara, I want to bring you into the conversation. Just yesterday, as we said, a federal judge ruling that E. Jean Carroll could actually amend her defamation lawsuit. I mean what's happening here?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, remember, there were two lawsuits. The first one, in 2019, that's the one we're talking about. That was put on hold. And then there was the second lawsuit where the jury actually heard that case, found in favor of Carroll, and found that Trump had sexually abused her and defamed her.

Well, it was one day after that jury verdict that Trump was at the CNN town hall and he repeated some of the statements that that jury found to be defamatory. So, she had asked the judge, hey, I want to add this to my first lawsuit under the column of punitive damages. So, if that case were to go to trial, and the jury were to find in her favor, they could consider the comments that Trump made at the CNN town hall, and also on social media when they would consider what kind of punishment he would face. And that jury that went to trial, they gave her $5 million in a combination of compensatory and punitive damages.

You know, what's very -- also -- what's also very interesting in this is that the judge has asked DOJ to weigh in. The reason why this first lawsuit is on hold is because DOJ said they should really be the defendant in this case because when Trump made the initial comments he was president, and he did that within the scope of his employment. He was asked questions by reporters about her allegations. Well, now they've asked a judge for more time before they decide

whether or not they're going to stick with that position. So, it suggests they could change their minds here. And one of the reasons is because of the evidence that came out during the trial of sort of the history here with the former president.

So, we're going to be looking there. Their response is due to that next month. So it's possible, if they say they no longer think that Trump was acting within the scope, then that lawsuit will move forward pretty quickly.

SOLOMON: A lot more to watch. New York, Georgia and, of course, now Miami.

Sara Murray, Kara Scannell, thank you both.

John.

BERMAN: Rahel, CNN is on the front lines of Ukraine's long-awaited counteroffensive against Russia.

[09:25:06]

Our crew forced a duck and cover as the fight intensifies.

A major punishment for the Mississippi officer who shot an 11-year-old boy after that child called for help.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLOMON: Welcome back.

And here's what's on our radar.

The Mississippi police officer who shot an 11-year-old boy has been suspended. Alderman Marvin Elder tells CNN that Sergeant Greg Capers is now suspended without pay effective immediately. That officer shot Aderrien Murry after he called 911 for help during a domestic disturbance last month. The Indianola Police Department told CNN they would not comment about the case.

[09:30:00]