Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Former Chief of Staff Says Trump Is "Scared" Following Arraignment; Vance Stalls Biden Nominees Over Trump Indictment; Former Spy Hunter On Trump's Classified Docs Case. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 14, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:01:44]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Partying with supporters, quizzing donors and raising millions, we have new behind the scenes details about how Trump spent his evening after becoming the first former president to be federally indicted.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, wildfires where you would least expect them to be. New predictions finding that New England is more likely to experience fires this summer than the American West, we're following this story and many more right here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Raising cash and doing it fast. Just hours after pleading not guilty to 37 federal felonies over his handling of classified documents, we've learned that former President Trump racked up more than $2 million in his Bedminster fundraiser last night. It was a whirlwind day for the 2024 Republican front runner.

Before he flew back to New Jersey, he stopped to greet supporters at a Cuban restaurant in Miami. He looked fairly competent for someone who just faced a federal judge and potentially several years in prison. But his former chief of staff, John Kelly, believes it's all an act.

Kelly told The Washington Post, "He's scared s---less. This is the way he compensates for that. He gives people the appearance he doesn't care by doing this. For the first time in his life, it looks like he's being held accountable."

I want to bring in CNN's Katelyn Polantz.

Katelyn, right now it's unclear when Trump's next court date is going to be, what should we expect here in the coming weeks and months?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brianna, this case is going to move to Judge Aileen Cannon. She doesn't have that much experience as a judge overseeing trials, especially trials related to national security records like this one will be. But the case is going to be in her hands, she's going to be the one that's going to put that initial trial date on the calendar and then there will be many things that happen in the case.

But first, there's a couple little procedural things that have to take place just because of what happened here yesterday at the Miami federal courthouse. So Walt Nauta, Donald Trump's co-defendant, he did not yet have a lawyer in Florida who could help with his legal team. This case is based in Florida, so he does need one.

And so when he gets that in about two weeks, he's going to be able to have his own arraignment. So just like Donald Trump, he plans to be putting in a plea of not guilty at this time, headed to trial. And then the other thing that has to happen is prosecutors are going to have to provide a list to both of the defense teams about the witnesses.

They want to restrict these defendants, Donald Trump and Walt Nauta, from communicating with about the facts of the case. That's something that was part of the terms that the judge ordered yesterday. It could always change. But that's what is on paper now what Donald Trump has agreed to do.

And we are also watching for more activity from the Justice Department. This is an investigation that got into Florida, the Mar-A- Lago documents investigation, but special counsel Jack Smith, who was here in court at that hearing yesterday near Donald Trump, he also is overseeing the January 6 investigation also into Donald Trump and those in his administration around his campaign at the end of 2020, leading up to the Capitol riot on January 6th.

[15:05:08]

Here's what Garland had to say today about special counsel Jack Smith and his work so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: As I said when I pointed Mr. Smith, I did so because it underscores the Justice Department's commitment to both independence and accountability. Mr. Smith is a veteran career prosecutor. He has assembled a group of experienced and talented prosecutors and agents who share his commitment to integrity and the rule of law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So Smith's team does have a little bit of distance from Garland and what Garland is doing as the Attorney General, Smith's team can choose to bring cases when they want to. Though they do sit within the Justice Department and the administration and their work continues not just getting ready for trial here in Florida, but they just had grand jury witnesses in yesterday from the Nevada GOP related to the January 6 investigation, so lots still to watch as the Special Counsel's office work continues. Brianna?

KEILAR: Lots to watch, indeed.

I want to go now to CNN's Kristen Holmes who is in Bedminster, New Jersey, where Kristen Trump is staying there. He held a fundraiser last night as we mentioned, I know you have new details about what happened there. KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's right,

Brianna. So I spoke to a number of people who were present there. They said that Trump was walking around wining and dining these high dollar donors, asking about his arraignment, what did they think, what did they think of his response, even at some points asking how he looked on camera. He was really reveling in all of this coverage.

And I didn't notice that Trump's team seemed a lot more relaxed this time than after I saw them after the Manhattan arraignment. They said it's because they believe that they have this playbook down, how to deal with these multiple indictments and looming legal battles and run for president.

And part of that was really playing it out in the court of public opinion. And that begins by changing the narrative. That's what we started to see yesterday, that trip to Versailles was a planned trip by his campaign. They wanted positive visuals out there from this day. They knew that there would be no camera inside of the courthouse, so they wanted all of the visuals around him to be supporters fawning over him and greeting him.

The other part of that was what we saw last night from the former president, who is obviously using the same lines we've heard before saying that this was all political attacking Jack Smith, saying that he has done nothing wrong but again, trying to shift the narrative.

The other part of this playbook is just to continue campaigning as though these things aren't going on. I am told, after his speech, he sat down with a number of his advisers. They went over what events to have next, where to have the rallies, which of the first states or early states to focus on.

But it still remains to be seen whether or not these things can be done at the same time. Keep in mind, these legal battles are not over. This is just the beginning of this. So can you run for president and actually fight all of these legal battles, which just simply unknown. I've talked to a number of Republicans who say they're concerned that this is going to harm his electability.

KEILAR: Yes, it's certainly going to take up a lot of time and energy and we're going to see if voters have the time and energy for that.

Kristen Holmes in Bedminster, thank you so much. Boris?

SANCHEZ: The security preparations at the Miami federal courthouse were a huge consideration in the President's arraignment yesterday. And today, we're learning that officials in Atlanta were paying attention and taking notes. The sheriff in Fulton County sent teams to both Miami and New York back in April to see what could be learned in case an indictment against the foreign president is filed at that federal courthouse.

District Attorney Fani Willis has signaled that she will announce her decision soon on whether Trump or anyone else may face charges and the investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election in the Peach State. The grand jury impaneled in this case wrapped up last January and you

may remember that jury's foreperson suggested this in a CNN interview shortly after.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY KOHRS, FOREPERSON FULTON COUNTY GRAND JURY: When this list comes out, you wouldn't - there are no major plot twist waiting for you.

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: But, in your view, people will not be surprised when they see the list of names to come out who you recommended to face indictment?

KOHRS: Especially if they've been following the investigation, I can't see it being a shocker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: We want to get some reporting now from CNN's Nick Valencia who joins us live from Atlanta.

So Nick, what more are you learning about these deputies sent by the Sheriff of Fulton County, essentially to scope out the scene?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, Boris, there's been a lot of anticipation for months and months about the potential charges being brought against the former president and his allies for their attempts to overturn George's 2020 election results. And now we know that there are preparations underway.

[15:10:01]

The Fulton County sheriff, Pat Labat, told me just days after Trump's court appearance in New York that he sent deputies to New York to look at the strategy there of safety and security. We now know he did the same thing at the federal courthouse in Miami yesterday again to, basically, what he's saying is be prepared should the former president face charges and be indicted here in Fulton County.

And this is what Pat Labat is saying in a statement to us here: "Based on notice provided by the Fulton County District Attorney's office regarding the intent to announce charging decisions this summer related to the criminal investigation into attempts to influence administration of the 2020 Georgia General Election, the Fulton County Sheriff's Office is coordinating with local, state and federal agencies to ensure that our law enforcement community is equipped and prepared to protect the public."

And Boris, it was in April that Fani Willis, the district attorney here who's leading that investigation, sent a letter to law enforcement officials and that included Fulton County sheriff, Pat Labat, saying that she would make the potential announcement of charges between July 11th and September 1st. Now, her timeline has been pushed back because of security concerns and this, as we all know, has been really a long running investigation that started with a now infamous phone call in January of 2021 between the former president, Donald Trump, and the Secretary of State here in Georgia, Brad Raffensperger.

It is a wide ranging and broad investigation with Fani Willis looking at potential charges of conspiracy and racketeering and that could include former President Donald Trump, Boris?

SANCHEZ: And we know, Nick, you'll be monitoring that decision as soon as it comes down.

Nick Valencia from Atlanta, thanks so much, Brianna?

KEILAR: Now to developing story overseas, we are following the latest on a deadly migrant shipwreck off the coast of Greece. Officials say that at least 79 people are dead and the death toll is still expected to rise here.

CNN Contributor and Rome bureau chief for The Daily Beast, Barbie Latza Nadeau, is with us here on details with - is with us with details on this.

Barbie, the death toll is pretty staggering here. Can you tell us what happened?

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. This is just sort of a classic migrant tale, these boats leave the coast of Libya en route to Italy. And now this boat, we understand had around 750 people on it. Now they took 104 body of people alive out of the water. They found 79 bodies so far.

But in the cases like this in the past, what happens is that these migrant boats - people are locked in the lower parts of the boat in order to keep the balance when they make this treacherous journey across the Mediterranean Sea.

And so this boat, we're being told, is 3,000 or several thousand - sorry - meters below the water level right now. So it's going to take a long time to understand how many people were on it. Greece, in the meantime, has declared three days of mourning over the loss of life here.

But you've got to understand that the European Union as a whole has worked very hard not to accept anyone who's on the boats that do make it over. So there's a lot of eyebrow raising here right now that one of these boats goes down and everybody knows about it, suddenly everybody's caring about it. And so the European Union working very, very hard to stop the boats from coming at all and to stop tragedies obviously like this from happening, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. And as - now we understand as you explain it why this death toll is expected to rise and rise considerably.

Barbie, we appreciate the report. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Still ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, he knows how spies operate because he hunted them. And now he's talking exclusively to CNN about the classified documents allegedly found in a Mar-A-Lago ballroom and bathroom and why he thinks Donald Trump was determined to keep them.

Plus, CNN is now the first American network to get access to Ukraine's front lines in this opening stage of the counter offensive. We have brand new updates on Ukraine's attempts to claw back its territory.

And the driver involved in a viral accident is now speaking out for the first time. You see that car going flying? Why she says she's not the only one at fault when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:06]

SANCHEZ: The Trump federal indictment is deepening a divide inside the Republican Party. Some of his supporters are doubling down in their defensive him. In fact, Sen. J.D. Vance from Ohio has declared he's going to hold up President Biden's Justice Department nominees and "grind his department to a halt." Trump's critics though, they're not budging either.

Let's turn now to CNN's Melanie Zanona who's live for us on Capitol Hill.

And Melanie, you have some fresh reaction from lawmakers. What are they sharing with you?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, Boris. What I would say is that the GOP's Trump divide has become clearer and clearer in recent days. And that is because in the immediate aftermath of the indictment news last week, the first voices that we heard from were some of Trump's staunchest supporters, and they instantly sprang into action to defend the former president, even before they saw the full scope of the charges.

But in recent days, we have heard from more Republicans, particularly in the Senate, who are expressing concerns over the serious allegations in this indictment, and also wondering what this is going to do to their party. Just take a listen to John Thune, a member of Senate GOP leadership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): We've lost three elections in a row now. He's been the issue in every one of those elections. And I don't think getting into this tit for tat where it's a race to the bottom to see who can retaliate against whom from one administration to the next is the way to lead the country forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Meanwhile, Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell has continued to remain silent about the federal indictment of the former president. But it is a very different story in the House where speaker Kevin McCarthy has vowed accountability for the Department of Justice. And in fact, top Republicans in the House are vowing to use every tool at their disposal to try to undermine the findings of that investigation, whether it's subpoenas or spending bills.

House Judiciary Chairman, Jim Jordan, has said he wants to investigate the investigation.

[15:20:03]

He has already demanded documents. He's likely to try to seek testimony from Jack Smith, though, that is unlikely succeed. And then there's active discussions about trying to use spending bills to restrict funding for at least portions of the FBI and DOJ in a form of real retaliation, which would just set up a huge clash with the Senate.

So this fight in the GOP over Trump likely only going to intensify in the weeks and months ahead, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Especially as we get closer to that 2024 election and Trump potentially becomes the nominee.

Melanie Zanona live from Capitol Hill, thanks so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: Our next guest has a unique perspective on declassified documents that were retrieved from inside Mar-A-Lago.

Eric O'Neill is a former FBI Counterintelligence Operative. He wrote the book "Gray Day" on how he helped to capture one of America's most dangerous spies, Robert Hanssen, who actually passed away last week.

Eric, you've seen what happens when government secrets land in the wrong hands. These are very sensitive documents we're talking about. What's your biggest concern after reading the federal indictment of Donald Trump?

ERIC O'NEILL, NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGIST, VMWARE: Well, Brianna, it's very interesting indictment, as someone who straddles the - both the side of the law, I'm an attorney and counter intelligence, this is one of the more fascinating indictments. It has an enormous amounts of detail, including pictures, which you don't usually see, it's 49 pages.

And normally, indictments are just the bare bones facts, because the prosecutor doesn't want to tip their hand about a lot of the evidence that they're going to bring at trial. Remember, this is the indictment and Trump's been indicted, but he still needs to go to trial before a jury of his peers.

One thing that I can note about this indictment that's pretty interesting to me is the classification markings on the documents. Now, we don't know what's in the documents and we do know that the United States government tends to over classify.

When I was in the government, pretty much everything I touched was classified at some of the highest levels. But some of the markings are very interesting, especially ones that seem to come from human sources and also from signals intelligence, which could be like a satellite intercept. We only know that because some of the alphabet letters that are used after a designation like top secret or secret and also there are letters that are redacted.

Those are, of course, some of the classifications of top secret intelligence that's at a higher level or a compartmented level is a better way to say it that are themselves classified, even the names of the compartments are classified, so they're redacted, so that does cause some concern.

KEILAR: Yes. These are compartmented information that very few people would have access to, right. So are you saying that you don't think over classification is actually going to be an issue here that we're talking about stuff that is highly classified, because in this indictment, what we wrote about was vulnerabilities of the U.S., right? Vulnerabilities of allies, responses to potential attacks, nuclear secrets, I mean, these are the kinds of things that you would expect to be very highly classified.

O'NEILL: That's absolutely true. Now, once again, we only have very brief descriptions. And the descriptions are purposefully vague, not because the prosecutor is trying to hide the ball, but because the documents are classified. We will probably never see these documents, we being the public.

Now, Trump's defense team will see the documents and we'll be able to put together a defense against them. Some of the documents might be old, some of the documents might not be as concerning as they look like on paper with the descriptions, but this seems to be a very strong case against Trump, not just because the documents seem to be at a higher level of classification but because where the prosecutor is going.

The special prosecutor is making a case for intent, for willful obstruction. That is a very high bar to reach, but it is also laid out in the document. And I suspect that part of this is for a few reasons.

One, he wants to float above the whole political side of this debate that's going to happen behind and outside the courtroom, but also to distinguish this case against Trump from one that could, for example, be made against President Biden for keeping documents in his garage.

KEILAR: Eric, I want to ask you, because we hear, obviously, a lot of these counts are hanging on the Espionage Act. And you hear Trump and his allies, look at that say that it's essentially ridiculous because they argue it's a reach, he's not a spy. And yet that's not really all that the Espionage Act says or what would be required for there to be someone charged under it, right?

O'NEILL: You're exactly right, Brianna. When you think Espionage Act, you think maybe Trump took documents and was sitting at a dark bench in Berlin and handing them off to some foreign intelligence officer and that's totally not true. There's obviously no evidence that he had any intent to give it to anyone, in all likelihood he probably just wanted to keep mementos maybe for a biographer sometime down the road.

[15:25:09]

But the Espionage Act also prohibits someone without a security clearance from retaining documents. So the Espionage Act isn't looking at whether he committed espionage in handing intelligence information to a foreign power, but here the act is looking at whether he retained documents that he should have otherwise turned back over to the archives, and you can be tried for that.

KEILAR: Eric O'Neill, great to have this conversation with you. Thank you.

O'NEILL: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Boris?

SANCHEZ: Still to come, we have new details about Ukraine's counter offensive, reports that they are taking back territory. And in just a few minutes, the House is going to vote on a resolution that would not only censure but also fine Democratic Congressman Adam Smith $16 million for his role in the Trump-Russia investigation. Will enough Republicans crossed the aisle to block it. We're told it's a possibility.

Stay tuned to CNN NEWS CENTRAL, we're back in moments.