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Another Spending Crisis Looms For House & Senate; 119 CEOs Surveyed About A.I. Threat To Humanity; 2 Americans Found Dead At Mexican Resort; John Kirby, National Security Council Spokesperson, Discusses Senator Vowing To Keep Military Promotions On Hold. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired June 15, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:31:48]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yet again, Congress is making "crisis" look cliche. Not even a month since the deal to avoid a catastrophic U.S. default, the House and Senate are careening toward another standoff over spending. This one raises the specter of a government shutdown.

Let's take you now live to Capitol Hill with CNN congressional correspondent, Lauren Fox.

So, Lauren, another day, another crisis. What's going on?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you remember, just a couple of weeks ago, there was an agreement between House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and President Joe Biden setting top-line spending numbers that were supposed to govern how the operations process, how funding the government was going to work in the fall.

But he got a lot of heat and a lot of pushback from members in the right flank of his conference who argued they wanted to write their legislation, their spending bills at a lower level.

So on Monday night, there was an announcement from the House Appropriations chairwoman, Kay Granger, that they would markup all of their bills in the House of Representatives at this lower level that reflects spending from fiscal year 2022.

Meanwhile, Senators will write their bills to the levels that were agreed in the debt ceiling negotiations, which is more than $100 billion apart.

At some point, they have to come together because government runs out of funding October 1st but that just sets the stage for a major clash between not just Republicans and Democrats but between the House and the Senate.

I talked to a number of Senate Republican who were absolutely shocked that this was the state of where things were going. In fact, Mitt Romney a Republican told me, quote, "I think" -- excuse

me, Senator Lisa Murkowski said, "I think it certainly makes things much, much more complicated."

Mitt Romney told me, quote, "The House likes to do things for messaging purposes. They infrequently reach the Senate floor, but when they do, they have to pass with Republican and Democrats."

Even some moderate Republican, who serve on the Appropriations Committee, they are warning their colleagues that this is setting them up for a collision course with the Senate.

And that likely, whatever they pass in the House, if they can get a united Republican conference with a slim majority supporting all 12 appropriations bills, the bills that come back from the Senate will look very different.

What this means for the American public is a very, very messy fall (ph) and a lot of questions on if the government will be funded by October 1st.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Important for these two sides to come to a deal to keep the government running, to keep it open and funded.

Lauren Fox, from Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Some of the country's top business leaders issuing a stark warning about the dangers of artificial intelligence, saying that A.I. could terminate all of humanity in the next five to 10 years.

We have CNN's Matt Egan breaking this exclusive story for us.

Matt, tell us about this survey, because five to 10 years, it almost makes my eyes pop out of my head.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: It does, Brianna. It almost feels like we're living in a sci-fi where the characters are just now realizing the machines they've been building could actually hurt them.

So Yale asked 100 CEOs a simple but kind of scary question: Can A.I. wipe out humanity?

[14:35:03]

Now, the good news, relatively speaking, is that more than half, 58 percent, say, no, no way. Never, never could this happen. But 8 percent say, yes, potentially after five years, and 34 percent say potentially in 10 years.

Add it up, 42 percent saying A.I. poses a potential existential risk, not decades into the future but in the next five to 10 years. Crazy to hear that.

Yale Professor Jeff Sonnenfeld, he told me that he found these findings to be, quote, "dark and alarming."

Now none of this is to say that A.I. itself is evil. We know that it has great potential here to transform health care and education and transportation.

I mean, anyone who's used ChatGPT for a few minutes can see enormous potential.

But we're hearing more and more warnings from the business community and from tech leaders.

Recently, we heard from Geoffrey Hinton, the godfather of A.I. He came out saying there is a risk that A.I. gets so smart that it could manipulate humans and -- get this - even potentially override restrictions that are put in place on A.I.

KEILAR: OK, that is scary.

So, Matt, for those of us who would like to avoid a, I don't know, "Terminator"-style apocalyptic ending, what can be done here to prevent that?

EGAN: Well, we should note that, while there is a debate right now over these doomsday scenarios, there are near-term issues around A.I. that are worthy of debate, too.

Such as how A.I. could turbocharge misinformation. It could turbocharge fraud, what it means to jobs. A lot of really important questions here.

And there's a lot of debate and it is divided among business leaders and academics and lawmakers over how to address A.I.

Some worry that there's going to be overregulation from Washington that stifles innovation and lets other countries like China get a leg up from the A.I. arms race.

But we are hearing from some A.I. companies themselves pleading with Congress to regulate.

Sam Altman, who is the founder of ChatGPT, he recently said to Congress that, quote, "regulatory intervention by governments will be critical to mitigate the risk of increasingly powerful models."

So the stakes here are clearly grave, Brianna. I think that it's very important for lawmakers to realize that, while the rewards around A.I. are great, the risks are, too.

KEILAR: Yes. And very scary.

Matt Egan, thank you for taking us through that. I think -- I think thank you. Maybe. Sort of thank you.

Boris?

SANCHEZ: Still to come on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, investigators are trying to solve a mystery in Mexico after an American woman and an unidentified man were found dead in a hotel room. Why officials believe they were poisoned.

And Pope Francis set to be released from the hospital more than a week after getting abdominal surgery. More on that, straight ahead.

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[14:42:37]

KEILAR: Now to some of the other headlines we are watching this hour.

The Department of justice will launch an investigation into the controversial deal between the PGA tour and the Saudi-backed LIV Golf League.

This is according to new reporting from the "Wall Street Journal." The reported probe will be looking into any violations of antitrust laws in this proposed deal.

Also, Republican Texas Governor Greg Abbott just signed a bill banning Diversity, Equity and Inclusion offices and initiatives in colleges and universities across the state.

This is a bill that includes an exception for equity measures and required by a court or federal law.

And North Korea has launched two short-range ballistic missiles into waters east of the Korean Peninsula. That's according to South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Japan's defense ministry says they landed inside of Japan's Exclusive Economic Zone, just about 100 miles from the shoreline there. The U.S., Japan and South Korea issued a trilateral statement condemning the launch.

Boris?

SANCHEZ: New today, two Americans were found dead at a luxury resort in Mexico. The cause of death is now under investigation.

For the latest, let's go to CNN's Josh Campbell.

Josh, what do we know so far?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, well, the U.S. State Department confirmed with our colleague these were two American citizens.

Mexican officials say found dead in a hotel Tuesday at the resort village of El Tuscadero. Authorities believe they've been dead for about 10 to 11 hours.

An autopsy was conducted, Mexican officials say, indicating it was some type of poison that killed them. We don't know if that means drugs, carbon monoxide. There have been incidents in the past of American tourists dying in carbon monoxide-exposure incidents.

The hotel issued a statement. I'll read part of it.

They say that "local authorities are still actively investigating the situation and the safety and security of our guests and colleagues remains a top priority as always."

We can confirm there was no evidence of violence related to the situation. They're not aware of threats to guests' safety or well- being.

Finally, I talked to a law enforcement source, who said that, right now, the U.S. FBI is not involved. And at this time, no indication of foul play -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Josh, in the FBI, you worked overseas investigations involving deaths of six Americans abroad. What would it take to get the FBI involved here?

CAMPBELL: It would be some suspicion there was foul play. If they were murdered. Death at the hands of another essentially.

You know, the FBI has permanent agents stationed in Mexico that work with Mexican officials every single day. They're there and ready.

[14:45:04]

There's also what's called extraterritorial team. That's what I was part of. We would launch overseas if there was a suspicious death involving an American.

But the FBI doesn't get involved if there's an accident. They will monitor the situation, I'm told. At this point, no FBI involvement.

Of course, Mexican officials continue to investigate.

SANCHEZ: Josh Campbell, from Los Angeles. Thanks so much, Josh.

Brianna?

KEILAR: Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville says holding up hundreds of military promotions in the Senate, including a new chairman of the Joint Chiefs, isn't compromising national security.

But some of his Republican colleagues in the Senate even disagree. We have John Kirby from the White House joining us next on that.

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KEILAR: No, American military general officers have been promoted since March. There is one Senator who is blocking more than 250 promotions and refusing to budge on this.

And we are talking about the Republican from Alabama, Tommy Tuberville. And he says that he won't change his mind until the Pentagon changes its policies on providing travel costs and time off for receiving abortion or reproductive care.

Now, some of the officials, including some of his fellow Republicans in the Senate, say that holding up the promotions have become a national security problem.

Here is what Tuberville said a moment ago.

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SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): My hold will remain in place. I will keep my hold until the Pentagon follows the law, and Congress changes the law.

These jobs are being done as we speak. They are not empty. Four months into this situation, it is obvious that people are doing the job. It is not affecting our readiness. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

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KEILAR: We are now joined by National Security Council spokesman, retired admiral, John Kirby, who is with us from the White House.

What do you say to that, sir? He says that anyone who says that this is affecting readiness is wrong.

ADM. JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESPERSON: Well, we obviously have a different opinion there. The fact is, when you hold up this many flag and general officers, admirals and generals, what you are doing is to freeze certain commands and you free certain organizations the way they are.

And you stop having the ability of some of these admirals and generals to move on. And if some of them end up retiring, then their replacements are in acting capacities. And they may not have all of the right authorities they need to execute the duties of those jobs.

Not to mention the immense disruption this will have to military families. Here is -- summertime is our biggest move time. It is the time that we try to get families settled before the fall, before school.

They are not allowed to move or buy new Houses or get settled before school. It's immensely disruptive to military families.

And whether you are a general, an admiral, a soldier or a sailor, your family and your family's ability to accommodate the military life is a big factor for you to stay in the service and to want to keep serving the country.

This is a ridiculous hold that is having an enormous effect already four months in. And if he keeps doing it, it is going to have an even more dramatic effect going forward.

KEILAR: Can you be specific on what the effects to military readiness look like?

KIRBY: So as I said, if you freeze an officer in command -- let's say you are a three-star and up for promotion to four, and if you can't make that move and there is no way out of the situation, you may decide to leave the service.

And that can happen, you know, with multiple numbers of officers, which means that now we don't have that senior talent pool available to fill up the upper ranks whenever this hold gets released.

So the talent pool gets smaller, and a lot of the very qualified talent that we need in the upper echelons of the military are no longer available to us.

Not to mention that sometimes, in some jobs, when you have to put somebody in there in an acting capacity because the officer who is waiting to promote out now decides to leave the service.

Now that acting officer may not have all of the authorities that he or she needs to do the job because they are in an acting capacity. That is one aspect of readiness.

As I said, don't shake off -- and I know that you don't, Brianna, because you're a military spouse, too. But people should not shake off the impact that this is going to have on the families, and a family's willingness to endure military service over the long term.

KEILAR: These are jobs, when you look at some of these on the higher end of this that are going to affect security when it comes to the Seventh Fleet, right? You are looking at a lot of activity in the Taiwan Strait.

The Fifth Fleet, you're looking at the Iranian threat. The military representative to the NATO Military Committee. You're looking at the U.S. support of Ukraine.

So these are some big jobs for sure when you're looking at that.

Tuberville says he wants a conversation with the defense secretary. He wants to talk with Lloyd Austin.

What is the engagement right now between the Pentagon and the White House and the Senator here?

KIRBY: Well, I can't speak for the Department of Defense or Secretary Austin and to what degree he or his staff have reached out to Senator Tuberville. I know there have been conversations over there but I don't know the status of that.

We absolutely support Secretary Austin in maintaining the flexibility for female servicemembers in certain states where there are reproductive laws that are more constraining than in other states.

Supporting the Defense Department's ability to find ways for those female servicemembers to get the reproductive care that they deserve and that they need. [14:55:18]

So we are 100 percent in support for what the Defense Department is trying to do.

I had a chance yesterday to speak to a group of military spouses, and unequivocally, all of them in this group that I talked to yesterday said it is an issue for them as they are thinking of moving along in the service with their spouse in the military.

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KIRBY: And where that spouse is assigned is a factor for them.

KEILAR: John, I hear you on that. But I wanted to get to the heart of how you actually break up this issue.

Because you know that Senator Mitch McConnell has broken with Senator Tuberville. And you have Cornyn and Ernst, Republicans, who have tried to offer legislative alternatives to Tuberville so he will drop this issue.

They agree with you on the issue of readiness. And he is still rebuffing all of them.

And so what do you do? Do you reach out to Republicans? Do you rely on them for more pressure on him? What do you do to sort of break the fever here?

KIRBY: Yes, we are having conversations clearly with Republican members of the Senate, in particular. I don't know the status is on the conversations with Senator Tuberville. I know that is something more for the Defense Department to speak to.

But we urge and encourage other members of the Senate on the Republican side to put enough pressure on Senator Tuberville to get him to lift his hold.

We are grateful for the work that the other Republican Senators have done to find a way through this, and to urge Senator Tuberville to release the hold. And we would urge even more to do that.

There needs to be a break in the impasse, because it is going to have, already has had, and will continue to have extended effects on our readiness.

KEILAR: Is that is going to hang up the nomination for the chairman of the Joint Chiefs?

KIRBY: It could. I mean, it absolutely could if he does not lift this hold.

People need to understand, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs is a statutory set of terms. So, years that he serves in a term.

Chairman Milley is, by law, has to retire on September 30th. And so it is possible we will not have it confirmed if this hold persists and confirm the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

And somebody might say, well, why does that matter? Well, it matters because the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is the senior most military officer in the land.

And he is the direct military adviser to the president of the United States and to the secretary of defense. He is not in the command. He's an adviser, but a key adviser, pulling in all of the advice and counsel of all of the other senior generals and admirals across the services.

And we would be denying the president and the secretary of defense of that advice and counsel if Senator Tuberville does not lift his hold. That is a significant effect on our readiness, no question about it.

KEILAR: All right, John Kirby, at the White House, thank you for taking the time to talk about this. We do appreciate it.

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KEILAR: And we will be right back after a quick break.

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