Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Continuation of U.S.-Iran Indirect Nuclear Negotiations; Americans Held in Iran Being Sought After for Release by Biden Administration; This weekend, Blinken is Headed to China; Due to Chinese Spy Balloon, Blinken's Original Trip to Beijing had to be Delayed; "Climate Kids" Want a Greener Montana Through the Courts; Lawsuit Brought by "Climate Kids" Against Montana; Climate-Related Constitutional Lawsuit Filed by "Climate Kids" Against Montana; Trusty, a Former Trump Lawyer, Claims "Irreconcilable Differences" as the Reason for Being Dismissed From the Case; CNN Looks at Magic Mushroom's Potential Medical Uses. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 16, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kim Dozier join us now. She is also the senior managing editor at "The Military Times." Kim, welcome and good morning. So, in terms of any type of agreement, one CNN source told us that we're just not there yet. So, what do you think could come of these indirect talks?

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST AND SENIOR MANAGING EDITOR, THE MILITARY TIMES: Well, this is about keeping the lines of communication open, and also using the time that's left before Biden and the White House are focused fully on the 2024 presidential campaign to try to make some progress there. There are three American citizens and one American resident detained in Iran. And whatever moves the U.S. can make towards warming the relationship or taking it off of the confrontational footing that it's currently on -- look, we're probably not going to see a return to the Iran nuclear talks, but if we see positive moves as perceived by both sides, perhaps Tehran would send those Americans home, and that would be one win for the Biden administration.

SOLOMON: And speak to me a bit more about that because CNN has reported that the Biden administration is actively trying to get these wrongfully detained Americans in Iran out. How might the talks, these indirect talks, about the nuclear programs in Iran -- Kim, do I still have you here?

DOZIER: I do. Yes, I'm here.

SOLOMON: OK. So, how might these indirect talks about the nuclear program help those efforts in terms of getting these Americans back home?

DOZIER: So, already, towards -- while trying to win good faith from Tehran and prove that Washington is serious about this, the U.S. has allowed the transfer of some $2.7 billion from Iraqi banks to Iran. Now, that money is only supposed to be used for humanitarian purchases, et cetera, but it is one sign that Washington can help ease Iran's economic woes right now.

From the Iranian perspective, that is a pretty big win to give back three Americans that Omani official, according to the CNN official reporting, has said that it's all but in the technical stages right now of the exchange. Now, how that might be seized on by Republicans is that the U.S. eased up for far too little, and what's going to stop Tehran from just seizing another American citizen somewhere in the country to hold them hostage for another economic win?

SOLOMON: Kim, I want to turn gears a bit and switch to this visit to Beijing. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, heading to Beijing, I believe on Sunday. First visit of an American secretary of state since 2018, so pretty significant, and yet China seems to be is trying to lower expectations -- I mean, expectations here. What's the best-case scenario for a trip as monumental as this?

DOZIER: And I have to say that on the U.S. side of things, the briefings that reporters have had of the U.S. has also tried to lower expectations. The most important thing that Blinken could get out of this trip is to turn back on military communications, the essential hotline between the Chinese and the U.S. military that Beijing shutoff when Then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi visited Taiwan.

We've also had in recent weeks, an increasing level of tensions, dangerous confrontations between the U.S. and China, a U.S. warship played chicken with -- sorry, a Chinese warship played chicken with a U.S. warship and caused a near collision a couple of weeks back. And a Chinese plane buzzed a U.S. spy plane. These are the kind of things that if they go wrong and result in an actual bump or a plane knocked out of the sky, that can escalate quickly. And so, if Blinken could at least get that communication line turned back on, that would be one win.

SOLOMON: Yes, there is so much ground to cover. The economic implications, the military implications, the geopolitical. Kim, lastly, you know, I've seen reporting that the Chinese even questioned the intentions behind this trip. I mean, how do you make progress when there is a question about why you're even coming to begin with in terms of good faith negotiations? How do you make progress?

DOZIER: Well, a lot of that is probably public rhetoric messaging for the Chinese people that, look, yes, we're allowing Blinken to come here but we're going to play tough. Behind closed doors, each side has things that they need from the other. The U.S. and China are inextricably tied together in terms of trade. China is facing a tough economic recovery after COVID, and the U.S. also has its own economic woes. There are things that could be said behind closed doors to try to ratchet back some of that tension between two countries that look like military they're on some, sort of, eventual collision course.

SOLOMON: Kim Dozier, incredible to have your perspective today. Thank you. So much at stake here.

DOZIER: Thanks, Rahel. SOLOMON: John.

[10:35:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: A group of young people, as young as five, suing the State of Montana in a historic climate trial. This could change the fight against climate change nationwide.

And in just minutes, top DOJ officials are expected to reveal the findings of a two-year-long investigation into the Minneapolis Police Department that was launched after the murder of George Floyd.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BERMAN: This morning, a landmark climate trial is playing out in Montana where the plaintiffs, all under the age of 22, are fighting to make the state greener. The case centers around the state constitution since it is one of the few in the country that includes and explicit reference to a clean environment.

CNN Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir is on the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): In a big sky country, it's a story fit for a big screen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You got this, guys. We love you.

WEIR (voiceover): On one side, 16 young people from ranches, reservations and boomtowns across Montana, ranging in ages from five to 22. On the other side, the Republican-led state of Montana which lost the three-year fight to keep this case out of court but is still determined to let fossil fuels keep flowing despite the warnings from science that burning them will only melt more glaciers, blacken more skies, and ravage more rivers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on the evidence you've seen, there's a point to harm for these youth plaintiffs. Harm now an accelerating harm the future.

WEIR (voiceover): And the whole plot pivots around the Montana constitution that promises the states shall maintain and improve a clean and helpful environment for present and future generations.

NATE BELLINGER, SENIOR STAFF ATTORNEY, OUR CHILDREN'S TRUST: They filed seven different motion to have and try the case dismissed. None of those motions have been successful.

WEIR (voiceover): While the first week included scientists testifying to the data.

BELLINGER: Dr. Stanford has fishing for a bull trout and native cutthroat trout, already been impacted by climate change? JACK STANFORD, PROFESSOR EMERITUS, UNIVERSITY OF MONTANA: Oh, very definitely.

WEIR (voiceover): The emotion has come from plaintiffs, laying out their stories of loss.

SARIEL SANDOVAL, PLAINTIFF, OUR CHILDREN'S TRUST: You know, it's really scary seeing what you care for disappear right in front of your eyes.

BELLINGER: How does that make you feel knowing that the state is not considering the climate impacts in its permitting (ph) decisions?

TALEAH HERNANDEZ, PLAINTIF, OUR CHILDREN'S TRUST: It makes me feel like the state is prioritizing profits overs people because they know that there is visible harm coming to the land and to the people and they're still choosing to make money instead of caring for Montanians.

WEIR (voiceover): While the state's attorneys briefly question the plaintiff's ability to connect through mental health to the climate, they've mainly saved cross-examination for the experts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the judge ordered that we stop using fossil fuels in Montana, would that get us to the point where these plaintiffs are no longer being harmed, in your opinion?

STEVEN W. RUNNING, PROFESSOR EMERITUS, UNIVERSITY OF MONTANA: We can't tell in advance, because what has been shown in history over and over and over again is when a significant social movement is needed, that often is started by one or two or three people.

RIKKI HELD, LEAD PLAINTIFF, OUR CHILDREN'S TRUST: I know that climate change is a global issue but Montanians need to take responsibility through our hearts (ph) and acts (ph). We can't just blow it off and do nothing about it.

WEIR (voiceover): Judge Kathy Seeley doesn't have the power to shut down any extraction or usage of fossil fuels. But a judgment for the young plaintiffs could set a powerful precedent for Our Children's Trust.

BELLINGER: I think we're really at a tipping point.

WEIR (voiceover): The Orga (ph) nonprofit is also helping kids in Hawaii sue their state over tailpipe emissions. And they've revived Juliana V. United States, the federal case that could end up before the Supreme Court.

CLAIRE VLASES, PLAINTIFF, OUR CHILDREN'S TRUST: I just recently graduated high school but I think that's something everyone knows is that we have three (ph) branches of government for a reason. The judicial branch is there to keep a check on the other two branches, and that's what we're doing here.

WEIR (voiceover): Claire Vlases grew up in beautiful blooming Bozeman, and like the other kids, too young to vote, she sees the courts as the only place for someone like her to have a voice.

VLASES: It's hard knowing the power to make a change is in the hands of other people, especially my government. And I hope that as a young person, you know, we might actually have a chance to make a difference. And for my wife and for my kids' life, you know, not all hope maybe lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Bill Weir for that report.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: Well, coming up for us, Donald Trump's legal team pushing to get security clearances to work on his classified documents case. And it's all related to the first order from the federal judge who's set to handle the case.

Also, could psychedelic mushrooms be the future of therapeutic health care? CNN Reporter David Culver took a trip to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the cabling (ph) scan, we can look at the health of the fibers. We'll see the health before and after your trip to Jamaica.

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the trip while in Jamaica. Trips, I guess, you'll be doing them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: Lots of questions about David Culver's trip. He will join us, next.

[10:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So, this just into CNN, Jim Trusty is off the case. The attorney for Donald Trump who recently resigned in the federal documents case has just filed a motion to excuse himself from Trump's lawsuit against CNN. Trusty has cited irreconcilable differences with Trump as the reason for this resignation.

CNN's Evan Perez joins us now.

[10:50:00]

That was the phrase, irreconcilable differences, I think that caught everyone's attention, particularly among reports of infighting among the legal team, Evan. What's it all mean?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. Look, the Trump team is, sort of, always the scene of a lot of drama, right? Between the lawyers, they're always -- there's always a lot of knifing going on behind the scenes. And what the former president's -- now former lawyer, is saying that he wants off of this lawsuit. And I'll read you just what it says, it says, Mr. Trusty -- Mr. Trusty's withdrawal is based upon irreconcilable difference -- differences between counsel and plaintiff. That's Mr. Trump, of course. And counsel can no longer effectively and properly represent plaintiff.

Again, the former president lost his two main lawyers who'd been representing him during this -- during the documents, Mar-a-Lago documents investigation. John Rowley and Jim Trusty resigned just in the last few days. Saying, that they were handing it off, obviously, to other lawyers who are now representing the former president.

And now, Trusty is saying that he wants off this lawsuit, citing these irreconcilable differences. I'll give you just a recap of the lawsuit. This is a lawsuit that the former president filed last year down in Fort Lauderdale. He was seeking $475 million in damages for what he says were -- was defamation by CNN. John.

BERMAN: All right. And again, I think, the larger context here is there are so many cases that Donald Trump is involved in with so many overlapping attorneys. The idea that there is one of them who, now very publicly says, he isn't getting along with at least someone else in there is notable, given there are larger charges the former president faces. Evan Perez with much more on that a little bit later.

All right. Other news, this year, Oregon became the first state to legalize what is known as magic mushrooms or called, colloquially, as magic mushrooms, for therapeutic use, though it is illegal on the federal level.

SOLOMON: Yes. So, psilocybin is the clinical name for these and they're being studied for potential therapeutic effects on conditions like, depression, anxiety, substance abuse. Now, in other countries where these psychedelics are legal, they're the focus of wellness retreats. CNN Correspondent David Culver takes us on a mind-altering journey to Oregon and Jamaica in the next episode of "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CULVER (voiceover): Embarking on a psychedelic trip --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

CULVER (voiceover): -- requires a wiliness to be vulnerable. To hold nothing back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This wasn't easy, I imagine, for any of you to just say, yes, let me jump in. You're here for a reason.

CULVER (voiceover): Documenting it with cameras for a story to be shared with the world. Well, that suggests a near total surrender to the unknown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let go. Let go with it and just go with the flow. CULVER (voiceover): The experiences you're about to witness, they're intimate, they're exhilarating, and exhausting. After taking a dose of psilocybin, the psychoactive compound in magic mushrooms, you wait.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Psilocybin will bring you what you need, not what you want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And joining us now is David Culver. So, you went to one of these wellness retreats in Jamaica. So many questions. One, what made you want to document that both as a journalist and participant on camera? And what is that like?

CULVER (on camera): Yes, that's the big change in all this is, is not only going in chronicling their story. But I think what's so important here is these are very intimate and very, very personal journeys. And in, kind of, talking about approaching this story, I think one of the things, having covered it late last year, Oregon legalizing psilocybin was, all right, how do you articulate this?

This was the big struggle we've been talking to folks who had had their own trips and trying to figuring out how to then tell that story. I figured, maybe I could go forward with that, do it my own, you know, go through my own journey. What ended up being really convincing here was the folks who I was going on with this retreat was said, we'd feel more comfortable if you were going to do it as well.

So, that was, kind of, I think the final push for me to say, OK. Let's go forward with this. And then I figured that that would be the extent of it. I didn't really guess that there would be such an inner journey and path of healing for me. But, yes, it was a moment of, kind of, discovery and something that really surprised me. I mean, I'm somebody who, I really, I didn't drink before it was legal. Like, some -- the university judicial council. I just followed rules.

So, this was something that was a little bit nerve-wracking for me to be quite frank. But when I began to explore more and more, talked to my doctor, told her I wanted to do this. She said, go ahead. We did it.

BERMAN: And I know, I think both of us, and everyone watching has a million questions for you specifically, but I think they're going to have to watch Sunday night to get some of those answers.

CULVER: Yes.

BERMAN: We can talk about, I think, this is a serious, important right now, right?

[10:55:00]

CULVER: And it's not an if, but it's a when. And in Oregon's case, it's right now. Colorado also legalizing it. Jamaica, right now, it's been legal for a year so they're able to have these retreats. Also, in the Netherlands, this was a place we could do it legally, safely with a structured group and a therapeutic group around us. And you're right, a lot of reveals on this Sunday.

SOLOMON: Incredible.

BERMAN: Yes, I can't wait to see it. David Culver, you are a terrific reporter. Putting yourself on the line in so many different ways.

CULVER: In journey, yes. Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: Be sure to tune in to the all-new episode of "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper", one whole story, one whole hour. It airs Sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

SOLOMON: And any moment now, the Justice Department will announce the results of its two-year-long investigation into the Minneapolis Police Department following the murder of George Floyd. We will bring that to you live at 11:00.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]