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Secretary Of State Blinken Heads To China Amid Tensions; Former Trump Attorney Trusty Cites "Irreconcilable Differences" In Removal From Lawsuit; Judge Sets Today Deadline For Attorneys To Reach Out To DOJ For Security Clearances; Pentagon Papers Leaker Daniel Ellsberg Dies At 92. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 16, 2023 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Today Secretary of State Tony Blinken is heading to China. The top U.S. diplomat will visit Beijing this weekend in hopes of tamping down a recent spike in tensions between the two countries. The trip was originally scheduled for this past February, but it was rescheduled because of that Chinese spy balloon incident. And that is just one of the close encounters that ratcheted up the friction.

In May, the Pentagon says a Chinese jet made a, quote, unnecessarily aggressive maneuver near a U.S. spy plane over the South China Sea. And earlier this month two warships nearly collided in the Taiwan Strait.

Our co-anchor, Jim Sciutto, is joining us from Taipei, Taiwan. Jim, Blinken is going to be the first Secretary of State to visit China since 2018. I think that's really important to note. Also the first Biden cabinet official to travel to the country. What are his goals going to be?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR CNN NEWS CENTRAL: Listen, this has been a really deeply, deeply tense time in the U.S./China relationship with genuine fears of escalation, particularly as you have those close military encounters, but also fears of escalation over the standoff over Taiwan, where I am right now. And fears that China still has plans, desires, ambitions to take it by military force.

So, this meeting doesn't have frankly high hopes. It's really U.S. officials say about opening communication channels between the two countries, with a particular emphasis on military-to-military communications. Because U.S. officials have said they want to allow for the chance to deescalate the encounters you've had, like that ship cutting off the U.S. destroyer or a jet flying close to a U.S. spy plane. So that those incidents don't become bigger.

And then, Brianna, you have these other major issues including the U.S. continuing to push China not to supply arms to Russia for its war in Ukraine. That is a continuing bone of contention between the two countries and Blinken certainly to communicates U.S. concerns about Ukraine as well.

KEILAR: Jim, as you mentioned, you are there in Taiwan. I wonder how closely folks there are following this trip.

SCIUTTO: Extremely close. Because, you know, they have Taiwan's relationship with China, but they also have Taiwan's relationship with the U.S., which they see as crucial to its defense. It's not just about supplying arms to Taiwan, which is important, but it is also about diplomatic support, economic support as a way to really, frankly, deter China from taking the step of deciding potentially to invade this country.

So they look at that relationship as key. And they also, frankly, one thing I've been hearing here, Brianna, they don't want to get in the middle, right, between China and the U.S. They have their own concerns here. They have their own interests and they don't want to be, you know, something of a pawn, right, between Beijing and Washington.

KEILAR: And what is China's reaction to this Blinken visit -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: You know, I'll tell you if you listen to the words, right, the statements from Chinese officials it is far from conciliatory language in advance of the arrival of the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit in a number of years. They warned the U.S. against what they called vicious competition.

This responding to U.S. officials describing the competition between the U.S. and China. And they also accuse the U.S. of hegemonic behavior, that's China's words, China's words there. They've accused the U.S. for a long time of basically trying to run things, control things in Asia. And China in effect saying, hey, we're powerful now, our economy is powerful, our military is powerful, we're not going to stand for it anymore.

KEILAR: Yes, they have a lot of disagreements to work out. Jim, thank you so much. We look forward to having you back next week, of course. Thanks for joining us.

SCIUTTO: Good to see you.

KEILAR: Boris.

[15:35:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Still to come this hour, an attorney for former President Donald Trump has just quit another case, citing, quote, irreconcilable differences. What we're learning when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: An attorney for former President Donald Trump is calling it quits again. Jim Trusty recently left Trump's legal team for the classified documents case after the federal indictment was unsealed. And now he is citing irreconcilable differences, pulling out of another case.

[15:40:04]

It happens to be a lawsuit against our network, CNN.

We're also learning today that two of Trump's current lawyers, Todd Blanche and Chris Kise, have contacted the Justice Department to get security clearance. It's a requirement for them to access evidence in his federal case. The judge overseeing it, Aileen Cannon, told Trump's legal team that they had to get in touch with the DOJ by today.

With us now to get some perspective is Jamil Jaffer. He is the founder and Executive Director of the National Security Institute at the Antonin Scalia Law School at George Mason University. Jamil, thank you for being with us. Take us inside this process of getting security clearance for these attorneys. What's the significance of this step?

JAMIL JAFFER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE, GEORGE MASON LAW SCHOOL: Well obviously, it's critical that they have security clearance. Because the documents that the president is charged with having possessed unlawfully and retained are top secret sensitive compartmented information. That means they'll need not just a top-secret clearance, but additional clearances beyond that. Including potentially access to special access programs which allows them to see all the documents that the president is charged with withholding from the federal government.

SANCHEZ: It's interesting that the judge made the deadline Friday after he was arraigned on Tuesday. It says something about the timing here, doesn't it? What do you think of her approach?

JAFFER: It does appear that the judge wants to move this along, wants to ensure that the attorneys are going to the Justice Department, getting the process started. These clearances can take months to get. And so, that may take a while because not only do you have to conduct a ten-year background check. You'd have to run all that down, interview people and the like. And so, getting these kinds of security clearances takes a while. The judge clearly wants that to happen quickly.

SANCHEZ: So, back to the process. It is extremely thorough. You noted they have to like interview folks that know you and basically vouch for your -- how would you describe it, your character as a U.S. citizen?

JAFFER: Your trustworthiness. Remember the whole idea is that you don't want to be giving security clearances to people that are likely to give it to somebody else, handle it inappropriately, as some might argue here, and the like. And so, you want to make sure the people you're giving clearances to can be trusted with the information. That's often time why defendants of these type of cases get lawyers who already have security clearances. That's something the president is probably well get into. But as we know, he's had some challenges getting a lawyer to represent him.

SANCHEZ: And I wanted to ask you about that. Because right now he is reportedly looking for more lawyers, more defense attorneys in the south Florida area. Obviously the would need security clearances as well. In the meantime, you have this reporting he's had issued with attorneys in the past, one of them leaving a couple of cases he was involved in. So what kind of attorneys should Trump be looking for here?

JAFFER: In an ideal world, he would find an attorney that had existing security clearances that has litigated cases involving classified information before. There are a lot of lawyers who represented people like Chelsea Manning, right, Edward Snowden and the like in these matters before. So, there are lots of attorneys with security clearances. The question is, can the president find one that's willing to represent him.

He's had trouble keeping attorneys in part because as we have seen even in this case his attorneys have had to wave the privilege because this crime-fraud -- or has had a problem with the crime-fraud exception. Where he's saying then, as least as Justice Department alleges, hey, maybe we don't have these documents, maybe they're not here, maybe they got lost. You know, that's a challenge for an attorney because that -- the attorney/client privilege doesn't protect that kind of behavior.

SANCHEZ: You're referring to Evan Corcoran, of course, whose testimony may wind up playing a big role in this case. On the case of Trusty though, the attorney that just dropped out of this civil matter with CNN. What do you make of him dropping out? That case but also the classified documents one?

JAFFER: Well, we don't know why he dropped out of the classified documents case. What we do know is in the CNN case, he indicated to the court he and the president have irreconcilable differences. Who knows what that means? But, you know, the president oftentimes has taken the view he's his own best lawyer. He's out there often times talking about things in public that may make it harder to defend him. That may be why. You know, if your client doesn't take your advice, you know, it can be a real challenge for a lawyer.

SANCHEZ: Fair to say he has a history as a challenging client?

JAFFER: I think that, you know, it's our face you can see that.

SANCHEZ: Jamil Jaffer, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it as always -- Brianna.

KEILAR: As states like Oregon have begun to prescribe psychedelic mushrooms to treat some mental health issues, a CNN reporter takes his own long, strange trip to experience the effects firsthand. What he saw and how he feels now just ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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KEILAR: Research on psychedelics is making a comeback, including psilocybin. Which you may know as magic mushrooms. Well, so psilocybin is legal on the federal level. This year Oregon became -- pardon me illegal. This year Oregon became the first state to legalize magic mushrooms for therapeutic use. Some people are taking part in psilocybin wellness retreats now. And CNN correspondent David Culver takes us on a mind-altering journey to Oregon and Jamaica in the next episode of "THE WHOLE STORY" WITH ANDERSON COOPER.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Embarking on a psychedelic trip requires a willingness to be vulnerable, to hold nothing back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This wasn't easy. I imagine for any of you to just say, yeah, let me jump in. You're here for a reason.

CULVER (voice-over): And documenting it with cameras for a story to be shared with the world? Well, that suggests a near total surrender to the unknown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let go, let go with it. And just go with the flow.

CULVER: The experiences you're about to witness, they're intimate. They're exhilarating, and exhausting.

[15:50:00]

After taking a dose of psilocybin, the psychoactive compound in magic mushrooms, you wait.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Psilocybin brings you what you need, not what.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And David Culver is joining us now. David, we all want to know what happens next. Tell us what you witnesses?

CULVER (on camera): This is a fascinating assignment to have been on, Brianna, first off, and one that got surprisingly personal for me. So I mean, you saw those individuals there. We were down in Jamaica. This is part of a therapeutic structured retreat. There's a screening process to get in. You can't be predisposed to certain medical conditions. And then once you're preparing for the retreat -- which in and of itself is several weeks -- you then goo through two dosing ceremonies as they call them. That's when you take the mushrooms. Though they're not mushrooms.

They're grounded into psilocybin extracted, so to speak, and putting into chocolates, put into tea. And you go through that twice. And then on the backend there's an integration session.

But for four to six hours -- and that's how long, Brianna, it tends to last for most of us -- you're essentially tripping. You're in the midst of this mind-altering journey. And it is different for everyone. And I think that is what was so unique about approaching this story. And fortunately we had a whole hour to tell it and we do that this Sunday.

But each person comes at this from a different perspective. We have one young woman who we encountered who she doing this so she could find some sort of fulfillment. She felt like there was a void in her life, especially after COVID. She felt what many of us could relate with and that is isolation. And another guy was trying to curb his addiction to alcohol that had been years in this struggle for him. So, it's so unique to see how folks have come at this and what they've taken away from it.

KEILAR: You know listen, I've heard about veterans suffering from PTSD looking toward substances that normally people might consider, oh, that's recreational. And instead they're using them in a therapeutic kind of way. You mentioned, you took these magic mushrooms as well. Tell us what that was like.

CULVER: Yes, so that's a different part of this story. You know, I like to do somewhat immersive storytelling. I did that a lot through my time in China for CNN and even on the border most recently. I think the reason that I went about this was, well for one, going back to late last year, I was trying to articulate and really describe what these mind-altering experiences were like. But I didn't know what to draw on. I had no personal experience with it.

And other aspect was I wanted to basically chronicle these individuals and their very personal intimate journeys. But quite frankly, they weren't comfortable with that. And that the retreat behind it wasn't comfortable with that. And so we had conversations to say, OK, what if I'm one of the participants? And suddenly they felt more comfortable to open up and I'm grateful they did.

KEILAR: Yes, well I'm curious what the person who approved your expense report said when they were looking at it. You know, because it's -- it is an unusual thing. And I think this is such a unique to take a look at David. I'm very curious to see how this turned out. It really is something that takes I think an hour to tell. So, thank you so much for giving us a preview. And we're going to make sure to tune in to this all-new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY" with Anderson Cooper. One whole story, one whole hour. That's going to air Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on CNN -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: So you need to meet this week's CNN hero. She experienced the unthinkable when she lost her 2-year-old son in a hit-and-run. But you should see how the incredible Mama Shu turned her trauma into something beautiful.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHAMAYIM HARRIS, FOUNDER, AVALON VILLAGE (voice-over): After Jakobi got killed, I needed to just basically change grief into glory, pain into power. Folks thought that I was crazy. Like that lady crazy. Talking about she's about to buy that block and fix it up. Because they didn't see.

HARRIS: I saw crystal it clear what it could look like.

HARRIS (voice-over): It took about eight years or so to actually clean up the block. We started buying the lots next door. And now we have 45. It was so many things inside of my head that I wanted to actually build for the people. I felt that, that is what we deserve. Beauty is healing. You could change your environment. You really can.

Sometimes I just sit and I just smile. But then I say, you know what, I'm not done yet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:55:00]

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KEILAR: Just into CNN, Daniel Ellsberg, best known for leaking the Pentagon papers, has died. Arguably the most significant whistleblower in modern history. Ellsberg accessed top secret documents in his role as a defense analyst and the documents demonstrated how the U.S. government secretly knew that the Vietnam War was unwinnable. While continuing to deploy troops there and to really lie to the American people and Congress about it. In 1971 Ellsberg disclosed the information to the media. And the Pentagon Papers led to a landmark Supreme Court ruling on press freedoms and infuriated then President Nixon. It sure did.

SANCHEZ: Yes, this past March, Mr. Ellsberg revealed that he had pancreatic cancer and that he declined a chemotherapy treatment.

[16:00:00]

He spoke to CNN just a few months ago. Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL ELLSBERG, PENTAGON PAPERS LEAKER: Yes, it's been, by the way, because of my announcing that, was my son has encouraged me to do, wouldn't have done it otherwise. Some responses have come from doctors that suggest that there may be some targeted chemotherapy, no surgery that might add some months to my life. So I am looking into that. I'm not in a rush to leave. But it's been a wonderful party and it is time to go home and go to bed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: One of the most famous whistleblowers in U.S. history, Daniel Ellsberg, 92 years old.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.