Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Sounds Heard in Submersible Search; Tom Dettweiler is Interviewed about the Missing Sub; Garland Responds to Biden Deal; Renato Mariotti is Interviewed about the Biden Deal. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 21, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:56]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: A race against time. Search and rescue teams have just hours to find a missing sub as experts believe the passengers will run out of oxygen today.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Banging noises in the search area have been picked up. Sonar devices detecting consistent sounds every 30 minutes at one point overnight. What that could mean.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, even if they do find it, getting it to the surface will be a herculean effort. We have new reporting on how they plan to do it.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SIDNER: Underwater noises have brought new hope this morning in the race to find that submersible that went missing while carrying five people to the wreckage of the Titanic. The U.S. Coast Guard is redirecting its search efforts after a Canadian military surveillance plane detected banging sounds yesterday in the north Atlantic. Rescuers say the sounds came in 30-minute intervals. We spotted a Coast Guard ship heading out to join the search this morning. You see it there. They're part of crews from around the world that are scouring the waters as the time is running out.

Experts believe the five people on board, seen here, could run out of oxygen today. There are four passengers and a pilot on that sub. We learned yesterday that the pilot is Stockton Rush, the CEO and founder of OceanGate. That's the company that runs those Titanic wreckage tours.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is joining us now from St. John's, Newfoundland.

Tell us if you've heard any new information about those sounds they're hearing every 30 minutes or so.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, they heard those sounds yesterday for about a four or five-hour period, every 30 minutes a banging sound. Later in the day they heard other sounds. They couldn't quite tell what they were. It didn't sound like the same banging. They had one Poseidon plane, those are sub hunters, that picked it - picked up those sounds, and then a second one dropped buoys. They also heard sounds. They moved ships on the surface and then sent down remote operated vehicle to the area where they thought those sounds were coming from and that turned up nothing, unfortunately. We -- the Coast Guard spoke to CBS this morning a short time ago and described the sounds this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN MAUGER, U.S. COAST GUARD: There is a lot of metal and different objects in the water around this site. That's why it's so important that we've engaged experts from the Navy that understand the science behind noise and can classify or give us better information about what the source of that noise may be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: So, now they have three Coast Guard ships from the Canadian coast guard that are out there. They have side sonar capability, and they are patrolling that area, trying to pick up any other sounds. They have those Poseidon planes up that can drop buoys, they are also listening to see if they can get a more exact location and figure out exactly what those sounds were or are that they are hearing.

They also did pick up an object, a white rectangular object, in the water yesterday. They weren't able to get to it because the ships that were moved toward it, they heard these sounds and they were redirected to try to figure out where those sounds were coming from. But, literally, all hands on deck.

There are three U.S. military C-17s that flew into St. John's here yesterday. The gear from that went on to the Horizon Arctic that shipped out earlier this morning. And then there was a Coast Guard ship just a couple of hours ago that shipped out. It takes about a day to get there from here, about 460 miles away from the site where we're standing right now. So it -- nothing moves very quickly. But everything that they can throw at this thing seems to be done.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Miguel Marquez, thank you so much.

And we're looking at some pictures of that submersible, just the size of a minivan, but we're talking about a huge body of water that they are looking in.

[09:05:05]

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

And let's talk more about this search and hopefully rescue.

Joining us right now is ocean explorer Tom Dettweiler. He led the team that found the wreckage of the Titanic. He's also a close friend with PH Nargeolet, one of the people on board that missing Titan vessel.

Tom, thank you so much for coming in.

What are your thoughts on this new reporting that we - that we were just talking about with Miguel Marquez of search crews picking up repeated banging sounds via sonar devices. Does that give you hope?

TOM DETTWEILER, LED TEAM THAT FOUND TITANIC WRECKAGE: Well, like everybody, you want to hold out hope until there can be no hope -- more hope. The banging sounds are interesting because knowing PH Nargeolet and his experience with submersibles and his background in submarines, this is exactly how he would try to indicate that they were still alive and try to communicate with the surface. He would do some banging, he would do it on a regular schedule so that it was distinguishable from the background noises that are in the ocean all the time. So, it is encouraging that there - there did seem to be a pattern to it. And, you know, we're going to continue to hold out hope.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Tom, is that -- do you think that that would be -- you said that would be exactly what he would be doing. Is that, you think, PH would be improvising, or is this some sort of, I don't know, standard protocol or procedure that you're familiar of when it comes to underwater emergencies?

DETTWEILER: It is a standard protocol for contacting any sort of rescue service that might be coming your way.

BOLDUAN: That is super interesting.

You've described PH as - as a close -- as a close friend. I want to play for you, Tom, what another ocean explorer, David Gallo, said about PH on CNN last night. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GALLO, RMS TITANIC INC. SENIOR ADVISER FOR STRATEGIC INITIATIVES: If PH Nargeolet was sitting here with me, like he normally would be, this is what he would say to do, let's just sit down together in a small room, figure out what needs to be done and let's make it happen. Let's do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Tom, what do you think PH would be saying right now?

DETTWEILER: It would be exactly that. He is very calm, collected, expert in his field. And, you know, we would have approached this in a very scientific manner, a very straightforward manner and just get the fastest reaction out there that we could have. I've spent the last two days trying to get an effort out there. It's on its way now. And, you know, I know that PH would have done the same thing for anybody else out there, whether he knew them or not. The community would have drawn together, just like you've seen it over the last couple days, and we would do anything in our power to get out there. Never questioning costs, never questioning time, you know, just do it. Drop everything. BOLDUAN: Tom, talk to me about the effort, what you're trying to get

out there, and what you've seen that's been deployed so far. Talk to me about the scope and scale and what they're also up against in terms of trying to get -- find them and get to them.

DETTWEILER: Well, some of the experts have already said that, you know, you see Navy assets going out there. That's very important because the Navy assets that are currently on their way are the assets that are experienced in finding things under water and doing recoveries from the very deepwater. Some of the few assets that are available. And they will get there within the next day or so. That's the limitation is it's very far out there. And, you know, just getting this very heavy equipment moving, getting it to where it needs to be, mobilizing it on the ship, as you can imagine, when a ship goes out to sea, everything has got to be fastened down. So, you're doing a lot of welding and things like that to make sure that it stays in place as the ship starts to roll in the seas. And then, you know, it has to be able to take the load if you're doing a recovery. So, there's a lot of work that has to be done, but these are all guys who do this routinely and they do it quickly and I think that you'll see some success in finding it quickly.

BOLDUAN: Where is your heart and head on this right now? I know you said that you want to hold out hope because you've got to hold out hope for another day. You also know the realities of the risks and the dangers down there. I mean, you've -- you probably know it better than anybody.

DETTWEILER: My whole career has been in the very deep ocean. And I do know all the things that can happen. And I've run over all those in my head. You know, but I've seen miracles happen at sea as well. Very unexpected things. Very surprising things.

So, I'm going to continue to hold out hope. They still have some oxygen left. And you have to consider that the oxygen estimates are based on normal activities in the sub.

[09:10:03]

One thing PH would have done is tried to calm everybody down and keep them quiet so that they're using less oxygen. And potentially you can extend that beyond the estimates.

BOLDUAN: Tom, I can't -- that's super important to even -- to consider in all of this and thank you so much for coming on, having your level of expertise and also just to hear about your friendship with PH and what you know he'd be doing down there right now is really important for everybody.

Thank you so much, Tom.

DETTWEILER: You're quite welcome, Kate.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: That was a great discussion. This morning we have a firsthand account of what it is like to take

part in this kind of underwater adventure. One year ago "Simpsons" writer Mike Reiss was on the very same submersible that is now missing in the Atlantic. He told a CNN affiliate about the dangers he prepared for ahead of the trip and described the various communication and navigational issues his team experienced during the dive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE REISS, "SIMPSONS" WRITER WHO TRAVELED ON OCEANGATE SUBMERSIBLE: It was just 11 months ago, in this very same sub, and I see over and over on every dive we took they lost communication. This is just one of the problems with this thing.

And, you know, I'm sure the world is very worried and that kind of thing, but something to know, having gone through it is, you know going in how very dangerous this is. And it's not any bad reflection on -- on Stockton Rush. It's his company and he designed it. But it's just that we are all part of this ongoing experiment.

Before you even get on, you sign this long, long waiver that mentions possible death three times on the first page. It's just -- so you know what you're getting into. And, in fact, when I stepped onto the sub, I just knew - I -- you know, part of my mind was going, well, this could be the end. So -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

REISS: So that's it. I mostly, you know, it's a very creepy feeling to think if they're alive, down at the bottom of the ocean or something like that and, you know, just knowing I don't think there's a way to get them out of a situation like that and that they'll just be sitting there for three or four days before the oxygen runs out. Very, very scary thought.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Yes, scary indeed.

I did note, Sara, he said that every dive they took they lost communication. So, people who are involved with this, they had some awareness of issues that had been taking place.

SIDNER: Absolutely did. It's still terrifying.

All right, just ahead, while President Biden is defending his son's plea deal, Republicans are on the attack saying he got off easy, and once again going after Hunter Biden and now the Trump-appointed U.S. attorney that oversaw the case.

And a record-breaking heat wave takes over Texas. Soaring temperatures are extremely dangerous. To illustrate that, some turned their cars into ovens to bake cookies.

And another Supreme Court justice is accused of taking a luxury trip with a Republican mega donor and failing to report it. How Samuel Alito tried to get ahead of the "ProPublica" investigation before it was even released to defend himself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:46]

BOLDUAN: Republicans are now responding to the details coming out about Hunter Biden's plea deal on federal tax offenses. And they don't like it. If a judge approves the deal, Hunter Biden would likely be sentenced to probation for misdemeanor counts related to failing to pay taxes in 2017 and 2018. He would also avoid further prosecution on a separate felony charge of illegally possessing a firearm. No jail time.

In his first -- in his first comments about his son's guilty plea, President Biden, he said that he's very proud of his son. But elected Republicans, including House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, they paint the whole thing as a sham really, calling it a sweetheart deal and evidence of bias at the Justice Department.

Let me bring in CNN's Paula Reid. She's got more on this.

And, Paula, Attorney General Merrick Garland, he just talked about -- he just talked about this Hunter Biden case. What did he say?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kate. He is traveling. He's in Stockholm attending a conference. He was asked about the outcome of the Hunter Biden investigation.

Let's take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: As I said from the moment of my appointment as attorney general, I would leave this matter in the hands of the United States attorney, who was appointed by the previous president, and assigned to this matter by the previous administration, that he would be given full authority to decide the matter as he decided was appropriate. And that's what he's done. And if you have any further questions about that matter, you should direct them to the U.S. attorney to explain his decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And, of course, he's referring to David Weiss, who was appointed by former President Trump. And he's pushing back here once again on criticism that the Justice Department is playing political favorites by emphasizing the fact that this was overseen by an independent prosecutor.

Now, of course, Hunter Biden's legal and personal problems have been something that Republicans have put a lot of energy and time into, especially trying to tie them to his father. But here, in the Justice Department's investigation, after five years, a Trump-appointed U.S. attorney, with all the resources of the Justice Department, who looked at everything from possible foreign lobbying to money laundering, narrowed this case down to just two misdemeanor tax violations and a possible gun charge.

[09:20:09]

And as part of this deal, Hunter Biden will plead guilty to failing to pay his taxes on time. In 2017 and 2018, according to prosecutors, he failed to pay about $100,000 each year by the IRS deadline.

Now, he has subsequently paid those taxes, plus fees and penalties, and the Justice Department will recommend probation.

Now, on the gun charge, he can actually avoid that if he follows through with some court-ordered requirements. That will be expunged.

Now, Kate, a lot of folks have asked, well, is this what would happen to anyone else, and it does appear, in talking to former federal prosecutors and looking at previous cases, that for the tax offenses, yes. I mean for a case like this when it's your first time, having this result in a plea deal to misdemeanors, does appear to be very common.

When it comes to the gun charge, though, it's very uncommon to be prosecuted at the federal level for failing to disclose addiction on the form when you purchase a firearm. A recent Supreme Court case expanded Second Amendment rights.

And, Kate, there's another case that's working its way through the appeals court that could make it even harder to bring a case like that. So it does not appear that this is a sweetheart deal, but that question will be up to a judge because all of this is subject to their approval.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And it seems what is also becoming very clear in this, as we wait for that judge's approval, if it does come, is the legal realm and the political realm as it is very much all intertwined here are two very different things.

It's great to see you, Paula. Thank you.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining us now is former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Let's just get straight to it. Is this a sweetheart deal? You have Hunter Biden, who didn't pay his taxes on time for 2018 and 2017. Is this any different what he is doing than what would happen to the average American?

RENATO MARIOTTI, HOST, "THE COMPLICATED" PODCAST: It's different but not in the way you might expect. I think it's actually harsher than the treatment that a typical person would receive. So, I've charged misdemeanor tax charges that are just like the ones here, in other words, it's -- we talk a lot of times, the public might talk about tax evasion and think of all crimes as tax -- tax crimes as tax evasion. Tax evasion is a very specific felony charge where you can actively trying to deceive the government, deceive the IRS. Usually that's the sort of crime that is charged in a tax case. That or tax fraud.

And when I've brought these misdemeanor-type charges just for failing to pay or failing to file your tax return, I usually use those as a backstop in a more serious case. You'd throw them in just in case the jury was split on some of the other counts.

I don't recall ever seeing misdemeanor tax charges on their own. I'm sure it's happened, but it's the exception rather than the rule. It's pretty rare. The Justice Department rarely works on cases in order to generation a misdemeanor tax charge. I would consider that a failure of an investigation.

Similarly, you know, the gun charge, I have never seen that gun charge brought before. Usually, the types of gun charges that are brought are felon in possession where -- or a firearm used in the - in the - in the course of committing a violent crime or a drug trafficking crime. I've talked to other former federal prosecutors and they've had a similar reaction.

SIDNER: Let me ask you, is there any chance the judge decides not to take this plea deal? And that would be pretty unusual, would it not?

MARIOTTI: Yes. And there's no evidence that there's -- at least that I'm aware of -- of other crimes that were passed up by the prosecutor. That would really be the only way in which this would be a benefit to Hunter Biden.

SIDNER: All right, I want to move on to something else that is going on when it comes to the Trump family.

New York prosecutors have subpoenaed E. Jean Carroll's -- the attorneys for the entire deposition that Donald Trump took in that case where he was found liable for sexual abuse. Will they get it? Is this something that is pretty cut-and-dry?

MARIOTTI: Yes, I think they - they'll have no trouble getting the transcript if they want to get it, for sure.

SIDNER: And let me just ask you this about sort of the mixing here of politics and -- and the justice system, which is supposed to be separate, but equal powers. What kind of pressure, in any of these cases, is the DOJ under when they are going forward with some of these cases, whether it be Donald Trump or whether it be Hunter Biden? What kind of pressure are they facing and what do they do to deal with any perception that there is, you know, some malfeasance on their part, or potential malfeasance on their part?

MARIOTTI: That's an excellent question. There is a lot of pressure. I worked on cases that I thought were high profile that were nothing even approaching the sort of high profile these cases were. And I would scrutinize every word that I put into that indictment, every -- you know, every word that I said in court.

[09:25:06] There is a lot of eyes and a lot of levels of review on everything that I did and I think that was certainly the case in both the Hunter Biden case and certainly the Donald Trump prosecution.

I also think that, you know, the strategy that you see the Justice Department employing under Garland is to have independent prosecutors handling these cases, whether it's Robert Hur or Jack Smith or here creating an independence essentially with this U.S. attorney as well.

SIDNER: It is a really good point. Thank you so much, so much, so much, Renato Mariotti. You always bring the heat. I appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, we have the very latest on the noises heard in the search for the missing sub, and the technology rescuers will use if they do manage the find the vessel.

Special counsel John Durham on Capitol Hill to testify about his scathing report into the FBI's investigation of Donald Trump's 2016 campaign and alleged ties to Russia. We have new details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]