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Debris Field Discovered Near Sub's Last Location; Debris Assessed To Be Submersible's External Body; OceanGate: "We Grieve The Loss Of Life" Of Crew. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired June 22, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: But nevertheless, given that there is a large debris field already at that site, because of the "Titanic," and we know that several expeditions down there left behind equipment, what is the process like for identifying and confirming that, if the debris found there, whether the debris found there is in fact from the OceanGate vessel?

CAPT. MARK MARTIN, OFFSHORE MANAGER & SALVAGE MASTER, BRITANNIA'S GOLD, LTD: It actually should be fairly easy. I know --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Captain Martin -- Captain Martin, I hate to interrupt you, sir.

I want to confirm for you and viewers, CNN just learned that, in fact, the debris that has been located near the "Titanic" wreckage has been confirmed by the U.S. Coast Guard to be that of the OceanGate vessel.

As we were speaking about it, our sources confirmed what you had relayed to us earlier, in fact, a positive I.D.

What is that process like? Take us inside what it's like to figure this out.

MARTIN: Well, if you've seen pictures from underwater vehicles, you'll notice that it looks like there's snow dropping through the water column all the time.

So any debris that's been on the seabed for any length of time more than a few weeks is going to get at least a small coating of that snow on it. So anything that's happened in the last couple of days wouldn't have that.

That, the fact that the vast majority of the hull of the "Titan" is white will reflect in the cameras, in the lights of the ROV. So it should be pretty apparent that it's new debris versus old debris.

So, and the two pieces that I, that -- of debris that I have been informed that were found are fairly colored.

SANCHEZ: We're confirming the debris discovered was some 500 meters from the bow of the "Titanic." This is an enormous area underwater where they are. Just horrifying conditions for a human being, obviously. Very cold water, very low visibility, zero oxygen.

We have to imagine, Captain, that the worst has been confirmed. Obviously, we haven't heard from officials, but the likelihood of a survivor being down there is, what?

MARTIN: In reality, probably 1 percent or 2 percent. If the debris they found is, in fact, debris that was -- that has been relayed to me, it's exterior portions of the pressure hull.

So they may have come off when the, when the vehicle impacted the seabed. And if that's the case, then there is still a possibility that the pressure hull itself is intact.

The problem with that is that we estimated at 8:00 this morning that was the end of the 96-hour life support. A lot of experts have talked about that. That's an estimate based on average consumption.

And if hypothermia put them lethargic or to sleep could have used less and maybe extended that 96 hours, or, you know, some period of hours, a few hours, I would think, at most.

The other problem is, we haven't found the hull yet. And with my calculations, if we were to launch the ROV, it will take, you know, probably two hours to get down there.

Then you have to lower the crane hook and -- get the -- the recovery sling off of the hull, hook it up to the crane and bring it back up. That's another four hours.

So you know, you're looking at seven or eight hours of recovery time. And we're already, you know, six hours, six and a half hours past the estimated life support.

So I think that the, while it's not something any of us really want to dwell on or think about.

You know, the deep submersible community is pretty small. We all know each other, talk to each other. I really don't have much hope that there's going to be any rescue. In my personal opinion, this is a recovery at this point.

SANCHEZ: Obviously, our thoughts are with the families of those five people that went missing aboard the submersible.

Captain Martin, please stand by for a moment.

I want to get to CNN's Paula Newton, who has confirmation of these new details.

Paula, we understand that there is confirmation now from the U.S. Coast Guard that portions of the external body of the "Titan" have been discovered roughly 500 meters off the bow of the "Titanic," discovered at approximately 8:55 a.m. Eastern time.

[14:35:04]

But according to this memo from the Coast Guard, Paula, the search for the crew continues?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Really tough news to take in. Comes to us from our own Priscilla Alvarez reporting in a memo obtained by CNN the debris discovered at the search area, as you say, is of the missing "Titan."

And it is assessed to be -- and this key here -- from the external body of this submersible and that search, as you say, for the vessel continues.

I think given that that Canadian ship, the "Horizon Arctic," was able to bring that remote vehicle to the depth of the "Titanic" wreck -- and as I've explained before, the submersible, Titan, went down that water column, tried to go straight down as it could to go see the wreck of the "Titanic."

The fact, as of this morning, they were able to get that remote vehicle down there. That is what they knew would give them insight.

That exactly, at an hour, 45 minutes in, when they lost contact, they surmised, more or less, where the Titan had been. Went there first to look, and apparently that's what they found.

I will say that I've reached out to Canadian officials, who, up to the last hour, told me this remained a rescue operation.

Given what we just heard from our last guest, I asked them, is this now turning into a recovery operation? He said, we just have to pause for a moment and understand how difficult this is for the families who have already been briefed about this, how hard it is for them to take in.

Especially given the fact that they knew the expertise, the CEO, was on there. The man who's been called "Mr. Titanic" down there more than 30 times. The French mariner, P.H. Nargeolet.

They heard noises that could not be explained, they thought perhaps there was a chance. This tends to indicate that what they are being told by the U.S. Coast Guard, this debris has been found.

There is still a lot more to do here in terms of the find of this submersible and understand exactly what happened.

Again, we continue to reach out to Canadian officials. And I will say the Transportation Safety Board here in Canada would be in charge of any investigation. They are at the ready.

And again, deployed so many assets there in terms of recovery. They will be able, hopefully, to give those families what they need, which is information and peace of mind.

SANCHEZ: It has been an extraordinary effort, all-hands-on-deck over several days to try to give these families information as they deal with such a difficult process, first learning that their loved ones are missing, now hearing this news.

Paula, please, stand by for us.

We're, of course, going to stay on top of this story.

Again, breaking news, there is confirmation debris located near the wreckage site of the "Titanic" confirmed to be from the exterior hull of the OceanGate "Titan" vessel.

You see officials preparing for a news briefing at the top of the hour. That will be the U.S. Coast Guard, at 3:00 P.M. We'll carry it live and continue to follow all the breaking details right here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:42:42]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: The breaking news this hour, the debris discovered in the search area of the missing submersible has now been assessed to be from the external body of the "Titan," as that submersible is known.

CNN's Miguel Marquez joins us now.

Miguel, we learned a couple hours there was a debris field. Now we know that debris is assessed to be from this and it discovered on the ocean floor just off the bow of the "Titanic."

What are searchers telling you there in Newfoundland?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have some news that's just come through on email, Jim, that is rather unfortunate. A statement from OceanGate itself, saying that:

"We now believe that our CEO, Stockton Rush, Shahzada Dawood and his son, Sulaiman Dawood, Hamish Harding and Paul-Henry Nargeolot have sadly been lost."

"These men were two explorers who shared sea adventures and a deep passion for exploring and protecting the world's oceans. Our hearts are with these five souls and all of their families during this tragic time. We grieve the loss and the joy they brought to everyone that they knew."

The statement does go on for a bit.

But our own Priscilla Alvarez obtained information from a government memo indicating those parts they had found earlier were about 500 feet from the bow of the "Titanic."

And that the assessment from individuals at OceanGate that I've been chatting with today indicated that, if it was from their vessel, that it indicated a catastrophic failure of that vessel, and that, unfortunately, they were lost.

This is dangerous stuff that they do. It is adventuresome, I'm sure.

But you were talking about depths of just thousands of pounds per square inch down there, and everything has to be absolutely right with every single mission.

No matter how experienced they are, these things can go wrong. And people who do these missions certainly understand that they take great risks in doing this for the joy and the interest of discovery.

[14:44:59]

But OceanGate confirming right now that those five individuals are dead. The-- it is not clear they have found the entirety of the craft but they have found parts of it, indicating to people at OceanGate that the craft did not survive whatever initial event occurred there -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: Miguel, do we know that's certainly, that's news, and sad news for the operator of this vessel to confirm that the five onboard are dead.

And we have pictures up on the wall here of the five of them. Hamish Harding, Sulaiman Dawood and Shahzada, and Paul Nargeolet and Stockton Rush.

Miguel, do we know new information about the wreckage seen on the floor that gives them confidence those onboard did not survive? Or are they surmising from seeing some pieces of the wreckage there that, therefore, the capsule did not survive those depths?

MARQUEZ: They are surmising that, because of the wreckage they have found that the capsule itself would not have survived. Must have been a catastrophic failure at the moment of the event.

And that then led to the debris field, which has, you know -- the -- the depths and the -- and the pressure put on a capsule like that is stunning when you start to talk to these people about just how difficult it is to do this and how technical it is.

And -- so I -- I think once they were able to confirm that those parts were, in fact, from the "Titan" sub, and even if they haven't found the capsule, because of the nature of the parts that they have found, they realize that -- that the rest of the sub is gone and lost -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: Miguel, thanks so much for sharing that important and that sad update.

If you're just joining us, Miguel sharing a statement from the operator of this submersible saying, sharing the sad news that they now believe all five onboard the "Titan" have been lost.

And there they are, faces of the five men.

Joining us now, former Royal Navy Captain Ryan Ramsey.

So we're getting this information as it comes in. The first update a short time ago was that they spotted debris on the ground, on the ocean floor, I should say, several hundred meters off the bow of the "Titanic," pieces of the exterior of the submarine.

I wonder, based on what we know, why would them seeing pieces of the exterior, the sort of outer portion of it, give them confidence that the capsule itself had not survived those depths? It suffered what they describe as a catastrophic failure?

RYAN RAMSEY, FORMER ROYAL NAVY CAPTAIN: Yes. So I think the capsule is one part of it. So you'd expect it all to be joined up together. And I agree the capsule had a catastrophic.

That catastrophic failure looks like it resulted in implosion, which is quick, very quick. Then all the parts disappearing down to the seabed.

It's very tragic for the families and my thoughts go out to them. The only positive of this is that the end was quick.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. There were a lot of acoustic assets in the water searching for the sub presumably up to the moment it was found. That includes naval aircraft, designed to listen for submarines in circumstances of war. So highly sensitive equipment.

If there was a catastrophic implosion of the submarine, presumably you would hear that? Right? As it took place, unless, of course, it happened sometime ago. Right? Before the search was taking place? Perhaps at the moment it disappeared?

RAMSEY: Agree. I think very much that's probably what happened. So communications were lost and then there was a catastrophic failure, then result in the implosion.

Which is why the naval aircraft didn't detect anything when they conducted their searches and neither did they detect anything on the surface because they were looking -- (INAUDIBLE)

SCIUTTO: Yes. And this -- listen, we heard these -- these indications of banging sounds or sounds that could be banging. They were never determined that -- the Coast Guard made clear they weren't certain what the sounds were -- and raised the possibility those sounds were not related to this.

Again, I'm putting you in an uncomfortable position because we're learning this information as it comes in. You're saying it's possible that that catastrophic failure took place far earlier in this process here?

RAMSEY: I believe so. Just based on the information I've heard so far. But it's going to take, you know, a long investigation, recovery of some of the debris to put it all together and work out exactly as much as they can of what happened.

[14:50:07]

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you before I let you go. Now an effort, presumably to recover the debris, perhaps human remains, it's difficult to recover anything at those depths, certainly folks who might have survived an event such as this.

Can you recover things? I suppose they've been going to the "Titanic" wreck and bringing some things up, so it's possible for the sake of investigation, for the sake of, again, if this is where we are, the sake of the possibility of collecting remains.

Can that be done from the sea floor at 12,500 feet?

RAMSEY: I think the remote operating vehicles are able to pick up some of the debris and bring that back to the surface. I don't know the full capabilities but ROVs can do some of that.

The importance of bringing the debris back up is significant because the whole community needs to learn the lessons from this and make sure it never happens again.

SCIUTTO: Yes, they need to know what happened, whether there were any weaknesses in the craft itself that they can learn from and prevent similar accidents in the future.

Ryan Ramsey, former Royal Navy captain, thanks for joining us and sharing your expertise.

If you are just joining us now, of course, the news we heard there from our Miguel Marquez, a statement from the operator of the submersible that the operator now believes the five men on board were lost.

Boris, it's sad news to report this afternoon.

SANCHEZ: It is what we've been fearing for several days.

Major breaking news in the search for the "Titan" submersible, OceanGate, again, says they believe that individuals on the "Titan" have sadly been lost.

CNN's Jason Carroll is at the Coast Guard headquarters in Boston where a press conference is set to take place in just a few minutes.

Jason, obviously, the major question is how this happened, and we can anticipate there will be a very thorough investigation ahead?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Without question. And these are just some of the questions that we're waiting to ask Rear Admiral John Mauger as he is about to take to the podium here in just a few minutes from now.

But I want to read just a little bit more from the statement from OceanGate.

They also went on to say, "This is an extremely sad time for our dedicated employees who are exhausted and grieving deeply over this loss. The entire OceanGate family is deeply grateful for the countless men and women from multiple organizations of the international community who took place in this search."

Again, this all sort of changing tone a little earlier today when we got the tweet, which had basically said that debris had been found near the "Titanic," the debris found about 500 meters from the bow of the "Titanic" on the ocean floor. This happening at about 8:55 a.m. this morning.

How was it found? It was found by the ROVs, those remotely operated vehicles that we've been talking about so much over the past 48 hours or so. They are equipped with cameras. They're equipped with robotic arms. So they're able to photograph. They are also able to lift and retrieve.

So now, as you were saying, come the many questions, how did this happen? Could this have been prevented?

As you very well know from CNN's reporting, there have been a number of questions in the past about OceanGate, about the "Titan," about its structure, about its hull, what it was made of.

In fact, you know, there were two former employees who had expressed great concerns about the integrity of the hull.

So these will be many, many questions that are sure to be answered in the coming days.

For now, we are awaiting that press conference that is about to get under way in just a few moments from now.

SANCHEZ: And, Jason, obviously, the effort out there some several hundred miles from the Canadian coast, an unprecedented one, an all- hands-on-desk effort. Have we heard anything from officials on how much longer the process might take to recover whatever they discovered at the bottom of the ocean there?

CARROLL: Yes. Very good question. And given the complexities, which they've already explained about, about what you have to do to, A, get so far down beneath the surface, some two miles, this is where the "Titanic" is located, you know, it's a dark and desolate area, but it's an area that's been well mapped in the past.

Now, since they've found some of this debris, perhaps then they'll be able to triangulate that area from where they found debris and be able to conduct sort of a finite search around that particular area.

[14:54:59]

Again, these are just one of the many questions that we have to ask the rear admiral and the other officials who will be here for this briefing.

SANCHEZ: Jason, please standby.

Again, that briefing starting in just minutes, so we look forward to getting some answers then.

Right now, we want to turn to Paula Newton who is in Halifax, Nova Scotia, for us.

Because, Paula, obviously, this news has to be devastating for family members that had been awaiting, perhaps, a miracle.

Very difficult odds given the conditions where this vessel was headed, but there was still hope, especially after reports that there was some sounds in the area, what some described as banging.

But unfortunately, confirmation from OceanGate that they believe the worst has taken place?

NEWTON: Yes. It had to be so difficult for the families after you say, Boris, having that hope, having heard those sounds.

Again, they had such belief in their family members. And why? Because all of them were incurable explorers who believed in this kind of innovation.

Just to remind everyone, of course, there is the CEO of OceanGate expeditions, Stockton Rush, who knew so much about this vehicle. Families, of course, resting on his expertise.

P.H., Paul-Henri Nargeolet, the French mariner, nicknamed Mr. Titanic, because he had been down there so many times and so enjoyed going down to that deep depth more than two miles beneath the surface.

And then, of course, the father and son, right, Sulaiman, the son, 19- year-old, Sulaiman Dawood, and his father, Shahzada Dawood, who were really looking forward to this adventure together.

And then Hamish Harding, who had been, literally, Boris, out to outer space just last year and now to the depths of the sea. An incurable explorer who believed in this mission and was really looking forward to it and posted on social media about it just in the hours before he submerged in that "Titan" vehicle.

Again, the families have already been spoken to by officials. They understood that when that remote operated vehicle went down this morning, that was their best shot of really learning today if they were close to that "Titanic" wreck. And tragically, they learned that, indeed, their family members were there.

I will say, there is likely a measure of peace and understanding that they're not just lost now, that they understand that there was this catastrophic event.

And that, at this point in time, the family, after they can mourn their loss, will, obviously, be looking for answers.

I know we've had guests on talk about the explorer community of which these family and friends of these five passengers were clearly also interested, and for that reason, as our guests have said, the investigation becomes very important.

The National Transportation Safety Board here in Canada will be in charge of that investigation. We have reached out to them. And again, with so much salvage equipment out there, they will likely be looking to send more crews, more robotic vehicles, down there to the depths to be able to retrieve just as much debris as they can.

Again, the families keenly watching all those developments as well.

SANCHEZ: Paula, please standby. Again that press briefing set to start in about two minutes so we will get back to you.

We do want to bring in Tom Dettweiler. He's an ocean explorer and ocean operations and engineering consultant. He was also a close friend of Mr. Titanic, Paul-Henri, one of the five people on board this vessel.

Sir, first and foremost, my condolences in hearing the news that your friend is believed to have perished in what appears to be a catastrophic accident.

I'm wondering how you're feeling right now. What thoughts are going through your mind?

TOM DETTWEILER, AMERICAN OCEAN EXPLORER: Thank you. We -- I think all experts who know anything about this issue, this problem, had this in the back of their mind starting Sunday. It is -- it was probably the most likely event.

And I think the only thing I can think about is that it was an instantaneous event and there was no suffering, which would not have been the case had they been stuck in a very cold environment, wondering whether rescuers were going to reach them or not. So there's some condolence there.

The other thing is that "Titanic" became a very important part of P.H.'s life and I don't think he would consider it an unnecessarily bad place to be buried.

SANCHEZ: Tom, I do want to ask you to standby for a moment.

[14:59:56]

Again, we are awaiting a press briefing from the U.S. Coast Guard. We understand that they are at the podium now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for joining us now.

SANCHEZ: Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This afternoon, Rear Admiral John Mauger will be providing an update on the most recent findings from ROV operations.