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Safety Practices Questioned After Sub Disaster; Former Congressman Will Hurd Joins Crowded GOP Field; Reporter Who Rode In Sub Details Underwater Experience. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired June 23, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE REISS, TRAVELED ON OCEANGATE SUBMARINE: You know what you're getting into.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Raising a lot of questions, though still in the aftermath of this tragedy. Let's go over to CNN's Veronica Miracle. She joins us now from OceanGate's headquarters in Everett, Washington.

Veronica, what has -- what have you been hearing from -- we can call it kind of more broadly, the submersible community about OceanGate's approach to safety and what we're hearing and learning more about?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, this week, I've been speaking with a former subcontractor who said that OceanGate actually received a lot of pushback over the years because of the design choices and the materials that they chose to use that were considered highly experimental and very controversial. In fact, we have a letter from the Marine Technology Society that was written back in 2018 and sent to OceanGate which expressed these very concerns very explicitly.

They were concerned that OceanGates' marketing about the Titan advertise that the design met or exceeded industry standards when they said, in fact, OceanGate was not following the safety rules, saying. "Your representation is at minimum, misleading to the public, and breaches an industry-wide professional code of conduct that we all endeavor to uphold."

Now, this morning, Anderson Cooper spoke with the former co-founder of OceanGate, who although he did lead the company back in 2013, spoke very highly of the late CEO Stockton Rush and said that his risk -- he was a strong risk manager and believed in his ability to innovate. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUILLERMO SOHNLEIN, CO-FOUNDER, OCEANGATE: I had absolutely full confidence in Stockton in the design of the sub and his ability to engineer it. And most importantly, to take it through a rigorous test program. So, I had absolutely no qualms with it. What I do have qualms with is the fact that so many of us in a rush to get answers to our questions are starting to speculate without waiting for all of the data.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: I do want to note that that co-founder does still maintain minority ownership of OceanGate. But through my conversations and through a lot of the information that we have learned, it does appear that there was a lot of pushback from the community at large, concerned with the way that OceanGate was operating incredibly quickly to develop this submersible, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Veronica, thank you for your reporting. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Up next, we speak to the latest Republican to jump into the race for president. We'll ask former Congressman Will Hurd about his decision to run and why he will not sign his party's pledge to support the eventual nominee.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:37:06]

BOLDUAN: The Republican presidential field is growing still. The newest candidate to join the race, a former CIA officer turned member of Congress, turn critic of his own party leader, former Texas Congressman Will Hurd. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILL HURD, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Biden can't solve these problems or won't. And if we nominate a lawless, selfish, failed politician like Donald Trump, who lost the House, the Senate, and the White House, we all know Joe Biden will win again. Republicans deserve better.

America deserves better. It's common sense. Common sense says we're better together.

I know it. You know it. There's more that unites us than divides us. And America needs common sense during these complicated times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And Will Hurd joins us now in studio. Thanks for coming in.

HURD: Thanks for having me. I think Gene (PH) is going to be excited that she got to be on CNN, you know in the -- in the video. So, thanks for doing that.

BOLDUAN: Oh, no. We always -- we always want to see from that.

HURD: Yes.

BOLDUAN: You are now the 12th candidate to jump in. And you know that -- I mean, you and I've talked so many times.

HURD: Sure.

BOLDUAN: In 2016, we do know that a wide primary field, it works to the advantage of Donald Trump. Why, Congressman, is it going to be different this time?

HURD: Well, look. I think it's different this time is because the race is different. In 2016, Donald Trump started at one percent. And he was talking about making America great again. And people thought he was exciting.

Now, they think he's boring. He's talking about the same thing. He's talking about the past. He's not talking about the future, and saying that he can't be beat or that it's only the race between him and Ron DeSantis.

I just don't subscribe to that. It's like, do we have to accept this crummy fate and do nothing to try to solve that problem? The answer is no.

And it's America. It's good to have options. And I think if you were able to show some strength closer to get into winter, and then you have some opportunities in those in -- those first elections.

BOLDUAN: When you were in Congress, you represented a purple district. You were a rare Republican throughout willing to speak out and be critical of President Trump when -- you know throughout. But do those attributes -- if you put it that way, do those win with Republican presidential primary voters more broadly? Said another way. What is your lane?

HURD: Sure.

BOLDUAN: What's your pitch?

HURD: Sure. And I'll take that question as how does a dark horse candidate like me, who has the track record like me of criticizing Donald Trump, but also, you know providing a new vision for the future, right?

BOLDUAN: Right.

HURD: And the answer is, yes. And these elections are not one election as running for president at one election. It's 50 individual elections.

And we also sometimes get too caught up in polling. We should have learned in 2016 and also in 2022 that polling doesn't necessarily articulate who's actually going to go out to vote. Campaigns are not complicated. ID your voters. Turn them out.

[11:40:02]

Are there enough people that are sick and tired of elected officials lying to them? Absolutely. Are there enough Republicans that are sick and tired of losing in November? Absolutely. Are there Republicans that want to see someone articulate a vision for the future? Yes.

There are Republicans that want to figure out how do we make sure our kids get a world-class education, how do we make sure that America is strong and is participating in unprecedented peace in the world, and how do we take at a time when the economy -- when inflation is persistent and artificial intelligence is going up in every industry. Not in a decade, in two to three years' solutions.

BOLDUAN: But, Congressman, you are -- I've known you for a long time.

HURD: Sure.

BOLDUAN: You are level-headed. You are calm.

HURD: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That is one of the -- that is one of your true -- tried and true qualities. What Republican -- what Republican primary voters love about Donald Trump is the heat, the passion, and the fight.

HURD: Sure. But it's the percentage, right? Not everybody -- not every Republican is doomed scrolling on social media. And the thing that I'm going to do is do what I did in the 23rd Congressional District of Texas, where nobody thought a black Republican could win in a 72 percent Latino district. And remember, I had tough primaries. This was the Tea --

BOLDUAN: Every single one, yes.

HURD: The Tea Party was against me, the actual Republican Party wanted the other guys to win because they thought he was going to be a self- funder. And how did I win those elections? By showing up and engaging people on issues that they care about.

BOLDUAN: Actually, your district --

HURD: And so yes, I'm not -- I'm not crazy you know, say well -- look, if I said crazy things with my social media profile and be a little bit bigger, yes. But I know.

But that's what people appreciate. And that's the lane because there's a lot of people that are frustrated with the way things are. And that's why we're going to try to do something about it.

BOLDUAN: I'm going to talk about your district. Just to remind folks, your district, I think it's included at the time your congressional district was more than 800 miles of the --

HURD: 824.

BOLDUAN: -- of the border. The Biden ministration just during our show received a pretty big win from the Supreme Court, reviving its immigration guidelines, prioritizing who can be, who should -- can be get -- who can get deported. This case was brought by two Republican state attorneys general. Justices said that they did not have standing, which is an interesting thing and something that all Republican presidential candidates need to face is this issue of you know -- especially when it comes to the state's rights versus federal authority.

HURD: Sure.

BOLDUAN: Something you're very familiar with. Do you agree with the way the Supreme Court decided this?

HURD: Well, the Supreme Court is going to make their decision, but it doesn't change the fact that Joe Biden should be deported more people, right? There's no question about that. Joe Biden shouldn't be treating everybody that's coming to this country as an asylum seeker.

Asylum is important. I've been very clear on that. But not everybody that is -- has a reason for asylum. Wanting to come to the United States to get a good -- a better paying job is not a reason for asylum. And so what Joe Biden should be doing is talking about how do you streamline legal immigration.

Why is he not going to do that? Because he -- like he says himself, he's the greatest you know proponent of organized labor in history. And big labor does not want to see a guest worker program in the United States.

So, the court case doesn't have any impact on the fact that Joe Biden has policies that are actually encouraging illegal immigration. And that's the -- that's what we should be talking about, and articulating what we would be doing differently in this -- in this -- in this -- to deal with this crisis.

And guess what? It's not -- it's no longer a Southern border problem. We're having a Northern border problem. And this is something where you look at the number of people that have come into the country that are on one of these terrorist watch lists, there are hundreds that have come through and been found coming through our Northern border, and you have fentanyl and it's coming to the Northern border.

And I will say this. As bad as the Biden administration was, the seeds of these problems started under Donald Trump's administration. And they got significantly worse on the Joe Biden's.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And it takes Congress and a president who is willing to put some political capital into getting anything done with reforming immigration policy.

HURD: And work together. America is better together. And here's the reality way more unites us than divides us. And that's something I've seen my entire life.

BOLDUAN: That is a wonderful vision. Sometimes it does not match the reality of how it feels right now, but it is a good pitch to voters. Congressman, thank you for coming in.

And thank you. It's nice to meet your new wife, who's also in studio with us today. Thank you very much.

HURD: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: To be sure, be -- also, be sure to tune in to "INSIDE POLITICS" at the top of the hour. You see that man right there. Dana Bash is going to be sitting down with another Republican presidential candidate, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. Sara?

SIDNER: Interesting conversation, Kate. Interesting that no one does talk about the northern border. It is a good point.

All right. While we know the outcome of what happened to the missing submersible, questions still remain of exactly what went wrong. Plus, just minutes from now, traffic will be can be flowing again on those center lanes of I-95 in Philadelphia, way ahead of schedule. I don't know how they did it. The tremendous effort to reopen portions of the damaged interstate that collapsed earlier this month. That's ahead.

[11:45:11]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: Now, back to our top story, the implosion of the Titan submersible and the deaths of five people on board. A reporter who had previously been on the vessel first raised safety concerns months ago. David Pogue is a correspondent and tech journalist for "CBS Sunday Morning." David, I am a fan of "CBS Sunday Morning." I'm putting it out there.

You know, competition is competition, but it's such a great show. We were just talking how many times did the Titan go down before this fatal last time? Did this -- did you go on in?

[11:50:09]

DAVID POGUE, CORRESPONDENT & TECH JOURNALIST, CBS SUNDAY MORNING: Yes. I mean, the Titan had been to the Titanic sea floor 20 times with no, no, no loss of life, no injuries, no incidents. My dive famously was aborted after only 37 feet because of what I thought at the time was a really dumb reason.

The sub launches on this big floating platform that they sink beneath the waves for launch. And that's because the water is calmer under there. And this little buoy -- this little float had come off of the floating platform.

Obviously, it doesn't affect the sub at all. I mean it would have nothing to do with our dive. But they have this three-strikes rule at OceanGate, which is if three things go wrong, no matter how tiny even if it's a bad flashlight battery or a sticker coming off a valve label, they cancel the whole thing. So, they canceled our dive. And I guess now maybe I'm grateful.

SIDNER: You went on this dive, what three times before this fatal dive? Is that correct?

POGUE: No, no. Just the one time that was aborted. But what I -- what I do know is that that was at the end of last summer. So, since our dive with the CBS crew and the fatal dive, that thing by my calculations has only been down three times.

SIDNER: Wow.

POGUE: So, in other words, we missed it like Russian roulette.

SIDNER: OK. So, you had this issue that stopped you at about 37 feet, you said. And you've, of course, observed this, we're looking at video of you on there, you're reading the waiver that you have to sign which again and again and again tells you that this could be fatal. This could end very poorly. And some of the issues there.

Can you talk about what you believe -- I think you've sort of said is some misinformation that is out there about what happened to this vessel and the seriousness for which the CEO and others took taking this vessel down to the depths?

POGUE: You're right. I mean, right now, you know, the media narrative, the popular narrative is rushing to judgment. And Stockton Rush was an idiot, and he killed those people through sloppiness.

And there was sloppiness, and the -- there was pressure from an industry group for him to submit this new sub to a certification organization that would have put a bunch of regulations and limits on what he was doing. And he didn't want that. His line to me was when you think outside of the box, the people still inside the box think you are nuts.

But it is a little more nuanced. So, I was really impressed by the safety protocol. I mean, look. Stockton Rush is a Princeton-trained aerospace engineer.

He built and flew his own airplanes. He had built previous submersibles. The guy who signed on as a science advisor. It was PH Nargeolet, who also died in the sub.

That -- one of the most dive Titanic veterans in the world. He had captains five different Titanic submersibles. And he approved the -- (INAUDIBLE) wouldn't have gone on this thing if there was something wrong with it.

The -- as I mentioned, the crew had this really conservative safety record. So, yes, it's horrible. And yes, I'm sure we'll find out that mistakes were made. But it wasn't like the guy made a Lego box and threw it in the water.

SIDNER: Understood, David Pogue. Thank you so much for the story you did and for explaining what your experiences was like there and for defending the CEO of OceanGate. I appreciate you coming on.

POGUE: Thank you.

SIDNER: All right, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Minutes from now, traffic will be flowing once again where I- 95 collapsed in Philadelphia just two weeks ago. But the thing about it is this is just a temporary fix. CNN's Danny Freeman has more on this from Philadelphia. He is joining us now. Danny, are people surprised how quickly they've been able to reopen the flow of traffic?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. I don't think when anyone was here 12 days ago and if you saw the original damage that anyone could have believed that traffic would be flowing again in less than two weeks. But this morning, we saw the governor of Pennsylvania drive through.

We saw fire trucks drive over as well. And perhaps in the most Philadelphia fashion, we also saw all of Philadelphia sports teams and mascots, including the fanatic and gritty driving through this morning as well. And then shortly in a matter of minutes, the public is going to get the chance to ride on this new part of I-95.

But I just want to explain a little bit how we got here. As I said, 12 days ago, June 11 to Sunday morning, a tanker truck carrying 8500 gallons of gasoline lost control on this on-ramp basically crashed, and then exploded causing the northbound lanes to collapse and the southbound lanes. They were damaged enough that they had to be demolished as well.

[11:55:14]

And at that time, Governor Josh Shapiro, the Governor of Pennsylvania, he said that it would likely take a number of months before any sort of fix, really, was possible. But then the state came up with this plan to pack glass aggregates behind me and build a temporary six-lane structure up there. Again, the governor is saying it's a great road and we proved the pessimists wrong by opening it today in just a matter of moments. Back to you.

BOLDUAN: And very rarely does a governor get to say we finished, especially a road construction project early let alone on time. All have been temporary. Danny, thank you so much for coming on.

SIDNER: And thank you for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTER. "INSIDE POLITICS" is next.

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