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Investigators Search Ocean Floor After Sub Disaster; GOP Candidates Speak At Evangelical Summit; One-On-One With GOP Candidate Asa Hutchinson; Experts Testify That Controlled Burn In East Palestine, Ohio, Did Not Need To Happen. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired June 23, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Officials now say that all five victims on board the OceanGate "Titan" were killed by a catastrophic implosion.
That implosion happened as the sub traveled to the wreckage of the "Titanic." And the debris field was discovered about 1,600 feet from the bow of that ship. You see a map of it here.
Experts say the victims likely were killed instantly.
Search teams are now scouring the ocean floor here hoping for any clues that could point to what may have caused the disaster.
CNN's Jason Carroll is live in Boston where the U.S. Coast Guard has been deploying ships for the search.
Jason, it's difficult to imagine what these families have been going through for several days.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, especially when you think, Boris, what we were talking about a few days ago when we heard about these possible noises, these banging sounds, which turned out not to be related to what happened here.
You can imagine, even at that point, it gave some families a glimmer of hope. Now we know what happened.
This is something that's affected not just folks who have been watching and taking partial interest in it, but when you think about the maritime community, the deep-sea community, it's a small group.
They all basically know each other, know what they're doing. It's hit that community very, very hard.
When you look at what's happening up at Newfoundland, at the port at St. John's, flowers being left there for the five victims.
It bears repeating their names. You have Stockton Rush, the CEO of OceanGate. Shahzada Dawood, a British-Pakistani citizen, and his son, Sulaiman, just 19 years old.
Hamish Harding, the British billionaire, who I spoke to his friend just before going on the expedition saying how excited he was to be going there. He had already gone on the Blue Origins space flight back in 2022.
Of course, Paul-Henry Nargeolet, the noted explorer who had been down to the Titanic numerous times before this fatal mission. He spoke to a lot of folks about this particular mission.
One of his friends, Fred Hagan, had been on a mission down to the "Titanic" with him before. And he spoke about his friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED HAGAN, FRIEND OF PAUL-HENRY NARGEOLET: P.H. was this wonderful, warm human being, incredibly talented. Iconic, legendary, the greatest deep diver that the world has ever known.
At the same time, with the humility and grace to sit down and speak to anyone as an equal. And as someone said a couple days ago, a man equally at ease on the deck of a ship of a hurricane or sitting and conversing at a Parisian cafe.
Just a wonderful individual. It's broken my heart that a man of his dynamism will no longer shine his light in this world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: This statement coming in from OceanGate saying: "These men were the true explorers who shared a distinct spirit of adventure and a deep passion for exploring and protecting the world's oceans."
"Our hearts are with these five souls and every member of their families during this tragic time. We grieve the loss of life and joy they brought to everyone they knew."
No word yet on services -- Boris?
SANCHEZ: Jason Carroll, thank you very much for that report.
Jim?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: 2024 presidential candidates here in D.C. to speak with evangelical voters, not many are willing to discuss the front-runner, Donald Trump, directly. Chris Christie, who did, was booed for his criticism.
Another critic of the former president, Candidate Asa Hutchinson joins us next to react live on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
[14:33:52]
And an update on the toxic burn in East Palestine, Ohio. Why experts are questioning decisions made after the train derailed. Next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:38:28]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Some of the biggest names in the Republican presidential race were on the same stage for the first time today at the Faith and Freedom Coalition's annual meeting, which is a gathering of prominent evangelical Christians that is quite influential among GOP voters.
Former President Trump is the keynote speaker for the weekend. And as fellow candidate, Chris Christie, learned a short time ago, it will be a home crowd for Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: He's unwilling to take responsibility for any of the mistakes that were made, and -- any of the faults that he has, and any of the things he's done. That's not leadership, everybody. That's a failure of leadership.
And I --
(BOOING)
CHRISTIE: You can boo all you want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: We are joined now by one of the candidates who spoke this morning, former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson.
Governor, thank you for taking the time to be with us.
ASA HUTCHINSON, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: Great to be with you, Brianna.
KEILAR: You see this vocal support for Trump despite these pretty big legal woes that he is facing here at this point in time.
And the question, I think, that that creates for a candidate like yourself, who is polling at 1 percent to Trump's 47 percent, is Trump vulnerable enough for you to break through with voters? What do you think?
HUTCHINSON: First of all, it was a great conference. It was an opportunity for me to speak out about my faith and to win votes. So, it was a great opportunity. And to contrast my leadership style with that of former President Trump.
[14:40:06]
So absolutely. This is early. Those numbers will close. And we work hard in campaigning, the debate is coming up.
We -- it's been important to me to showcase my differences with Donald Trump, and my belief that he's not the right leader for our country ahead. And the fact that there's more candidates getting into the race this
last week really illustrates that more people believe that as well. I was the third candidate in the race, now we have 12.
So these are leaders across the Republican Party that are saying let's have a different choice. People are giving a very serious look in Iowa and New Hampshire. I'm not getting pushback whenever I make the case.
KEILAR: Is he vulnerable enough for someone else to break through?
HUTCHINSON: The answer is yes. But obviously, there's got to be some internal evaluation to say we've got to win in 2024. We can't have a nominee that's not going to bring in Independent votes.
That internal pressure, it will continue. People are looking at that. Then obviously you have a lot of distractions that he has as well.
But part of it is on the candidates. I have to showcase how I want to have a pro-growth energy policy. How I want to make sure that we secure the border, how we are going to do that.
I have to penetrate all the distractions out there and get my message out as well. We're doing that.
KEILAR: The RNC pledge to back the eventual nominee, you have signed that. That could very well be Trump. Are you OK with that?
HUTCHINSON: I haven't signed it yet.
KEILAR: You're going to pledge that?
HUTCHINSON: That's right. You're right. The pledge has become meaningless. You look at the candidates that indicate, well, I'm going to sign it because Donald Trump is not going to be the nominee.
So, we're fine-tuning that. I have actually not seen the precise language yet.
But, no, I don't want Donald Trump to be the next president.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: But you would support him if he is?
HUTCHINSON: I expect someone else to be the nominee.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: OK. I mean, how could you -- it's very likely -- he's polling at 47 percent. He could very well be the nominee, right?
It's not up to you, it's really up to the voters and a lot of them are telling us what they think about this.
Is it just wishful thinking to say he is not going to be the next nominee, even as you are agreeing to this pledge? HUTCHINSON: Well, I believe that. But let me say very clearly, Donald
Trump is not the right one to lead our country or our party. That's my message in the primary and that will be my message on the debate.
And the Republican voters are evaluating all of the candidates really in light of the clarity of that message as well as their vision for America.
We'll get those debate credentials. I have a lot of different aspects that we have to satisfy.
I don't think the pledge is good. I don't think it's the right thing for the party. I think it's meaningless at this point.
Donald Trump hasn't even pledged to sign that. So, if he's leading the ticket and he's not going to pledge to support the nominee, what meaning does it have?
KEILAR: We're here at the one-year mark of the Dobbs decision on abortion. In last year's midterms, you could argue that abortion had a significant impact. Republicans were not able to take control of both chambers of Congress.
Do you worry that abortion could cost the GOP the presidential election?
HUTCHINSON: Most importantly, it's a matter of conviction and belief and principle. You articulate that. Then you measure the compassion that we need for women who have unwanted pregnancies or difficult pregnancies.
So you have to manage that through the campaign. But you can't dodge the issue. You have to speak your conviction. You can't just approach it from a political standpoint.
Sure, you look at the 2022 election, we probably had a closer election than we should have because, one, Donald Trump was recruiting bad candidates in there and invoked himself and looked to the past.
But abortion was an issue and the Democrats are going to make it an issue in 2024. You have to deal with it honestly, straightforward. I did today at the Faith and Freedom Coalition. I'll continue to answer the questions on the trail.
KEILAR: Senator Tuberville, Tommy Tuberville, of Alabama, is holding up military promotions at this point for hundreds of general and flag officers over the Pentagon abortion policy, which is a leave policy for reproductive care including abortions.
Do you think what he is doing is wrong?
HUTCHINSON: I don't like blocking military appointees. Obviously, we need to have our military functioning. We need to have the leadership in place, the promotions in place. So, there's a lot of adverse consequences to it. That's inside baseball in terms of the Senate.
[14:45:09]
But I don't like Biden's policy in terms of military. I still believe in the Hyde Amendment that we don't use taxpayer funds that fund abortion that might be objectionable to --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: This isn't about taxpayer funds for abortion to be clear. This is about time off --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- and this is about -- that's right. It's a leave policy in order to pay for travel for servicemembers and their families in states where abortion is not provided and they don't have a choice obviously where they're stationed.
HUTCHINSON: Well, I like the idea of those military appointments going through.
KEILAR: What would you say to him as we look at the fact that they may not. He seems to be intransigent in where he's staying.
You have Republicans in the Senate -- you say it's inside -- sort of inside baseball, but it's about to become outside because this is about to kick in here soon and be an issue of national security.
HUTCHINSON: Well, I'm going to let them fight the battle in the Senate.
Again, I think it is important that we have an election that determines our policies for the future. That's what elections are about.
I disagree with much of what President Biden has done. Obviously, his abortion policy is different than what I would want to have. Congress has a lot to say about that.
I believe that you ought to be -- have a pro-life policy, restrictions on abortion with reasonable exceptions. That, to me, is important.
You're focusing on the military side of that. That's going to be part of the 2024 election. I'm going to state my convictions.
And I hope the Senate can move forward as needed with those very important military appointments.
KEILAR: Governor, thank you very much for your time. We do appreciate you joining us while you are in town for this forum.
HUTCHINSON: Thank you.
KEILAR: Boris?
SANCHEZ: Still to come on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, why workers at more than 100 U.S. Starbucks stores are going on strike over the coffee chain's policy on Pride decorations.
Stay with us. We're back in moments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:51:40]
KEILAR: A controlled burn of hazardous materials following train crash in East Palestine, Ohio, earlier this year that sent a toxic cloud of fumes up over the town and sickened so many in the community may not have been necessary.
That is what several witnesses and experts are now saying at an NTSB hearing under way near the crash scene.
The site remains an active cleanup four months after the derailment. And some residents remain out of their homes still, worried that it is unsafe for them to go back.
I want to bring in CNN medical correspondent, Meg Tirrell, to talk about this.
Meg, what more are these experts saying about the decision to burn the toxic chemicals?
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, we are getting a lot more details about the thinking that went into this and the incredible confusion that may have happened in the early hours trying to figure out what was going on and how best to deal with it.
We heard testimony from Norfolk Southern, the train operator, and the two contractors hired to help with the cleanup. They really said that, you know, there were a lot of things that went into their decision to do this controlled release and burn.
One was that they looked at temperature readings. They thought that they were going up. They said that the valves for the pressure on the tankers may have malfunctioned.
They also were worried about the extreme heat around these tanker cars and the explosive reaction that could occur if they didn't try to take care of this in this way.
The fire department chief in East Palestine ultimately took responsibility for the calls here, but he had 13 minutes to make a final decision about what to do.
We did hear some evidence, though, that maybe the signs were misinterpreted and the explosive reaction was not about to happen inside of the tankers, maybe it was not necessary.
These experts, though, and the people who were doing the responding said, you know, even with this information, they may not have changed the way they took care of things, because they were not sure what the damage was and what was happening on the inside. This may have been the only way for them to react. But, Brianna, of course, there are lingering health effects from this. Residents in East Palestine telling the CDC in a survey, more than 700 of them, that 76 percent experienced headache after this, 54 percent coughing, 52 percent fatigue, 50 percent rashes and skin irritations.
A lot of people also experiencing anxiety after this happened.
As you pointed out, a lot not even getting back in their homes -- Brianna?
KEILAR: Yes, you look at that, you can see why they had so much anxiety as they were dealing with all of these health effects.
Meg, thank you for the report. We appreciate it.
Boris?
SANCHEZ: Now to some of the headlines that we are watching for at this hour.
Workers at more than 150 union Starbucks stores went on strike today. The employees claiming that Starbucks has restricted decorations celebrating Pride month at some locations. In a tweet, the union says about 3,500 Starbucks employees will be on strike over the course of the next week.
Obviously, that is the wrong video. We will get that fixed right away.
Starbucks, meantime, said it is not aware of any company-owned stores that have banned Pride decorations.
In Arizona, meantime, a key GOP official in that state is suing failed gubernatorial candidate, Kari Lake, for defamation.
Maricopa County Recorder Stephen Richer claims that Lake, her campaign and an affiliated fundraising committee have spread malicious falsehoods that have made Richer and his family became targets of threats of violence and even death threats.
[14:55:04]
Now Lake's spokesperson did not immediately respond to a CNN request for comment today.
And finally, a historic first for hip hop's Queen Latifah. The first female rapper chosen as a Kennedy Center honoree. In December, Latifah joins other honorees, including comedian, Billy Crystal, and singers, Barry Gibb and Dionne Warwick, for that prestigious tribute.
Brianna?
KEILAR: Well deserved.
In this week's "Homefront," a new push in Congress to veterans to provide veterans free service dogs. The bipartisan bill, the Service Dogs Assisting Veterans Act, would set aside $10 million each year for nonprofit groups that help train canines.
This is grant money that would help cover the costs of preparing for the dogs and veterans for a perfect match.
Recent V.A. studies shows that service dogs can have a huge positive impact improving symptoms of PTSD. The bill will need to go through a committee hearing before being considered for a vote.
Boris?
SCIUTTO: Jim instead.
We have new images of the robotic vehicle that found debris from the "Titan." Meanwhile, there is a new recovery effort underway. Do stay with us for the latest details next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
