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Interview With Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO, Former U.S. Special Representative For Ukraine Negotiations, Center For European Policy Analysis Distinguished Fellow, And Atlantic Council Senior Adviser Kurt Volker; Recent Video, Putin Makes Appearance; Location And Time Of Shoot Unknown, And Mutiny Is Not Mentioned; After Russian Uprising, Biden Speaks With Zelenskyy; Examination Of Titan Submersible's Voice Recordings And Data; U.S. Coast Guard Opens Investigation Into Titan Catastrophe; Recovering Debris From Titan Submersible Still the Primary Goal, According To U.S. Coast Guard; Lawyer: No Connection Between Kohberger And Victims; Study: 15% Weight Loss With Pill, Competes with Injectables. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 26, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: And entire chapter is an internal matter. It obviously has profound repercussions outside of Russia, including potentially in Ukraine, but fundamentally, this is a Russian matter. It's not our business, it's not our purpose to choose Russia's leaders. That's up to the Russian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Now, he also said the United States has not seen any changes in Russia's nuclear posture. John, the reason that that is significant is because U.S. officials have been watching as the Ukraine war has unfolded, concerned that any escalation on the battlefield could potentially make President Putin feel like he's cornered and have to use his nuclear arsenal to show some, sort of, power, something U.S. officials have repeatedly warned Russia against doing.

Of course, this situation isn't a challenge from the Ukrainian military. It's an internal division within Russia's fighting force. But it does, of course, pose an incredible challenge to Putin. So, U.S. officials are watching what he potentially does with his nuclear capabilities incredibly closely. John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: In the meantime, walking this very fine diplomatic line. Kylie Atwood, again, at the State Department, thank you so much. And we do expect to hear from President Biden shortly.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Absolutely. Also, this morning, during a visit to eastern Europe, the NATO secretary-general said the rebellion in Russia over the weekend shows that Russian President Putin made a, "Big strategic mistake" by launching the war in Ukraine. But he also made clear that the world should not be making the mistake of underestimating what Russia may do next.

Joining us now is a former U.S. ambassador to NATO and former special envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker. Ambassador, thank you so much for coming in. I mean, a huge question is, what happens from here? I mean, there are lots of questions, but amongst them, what are the next couple of days and weeks look like? What are you watching for? What do you think is next?

KURT VOLKER, LEADING EXPERT IN U.S. FOREIGN AND NATIONAL SECURITY POLICY: Right. Thank you so much, Kate.

And to be clear, there's just a lot we don't know. So, you know, we are really looking at what some things might mean but there's a lot happening that we don't see. Probably the most important thing as we go forward from this, we have not seen Putin or Prigozhin or Shoigu, that minister of defense, or Gerasimov, the head of the military, since this all happened on Saturday. So, there's a lot happening we don't know about.

Second, I don't think Putin can survive this kind of challenge to his regime without going after Prigozhin directly. And there are some reports that they reinitiated the indictment against Prigozhin, and I suspect that there are teams down trying to find him and trying to kill him. So, I think that is going to be one part.

The other part is that we've seen that Putin is much weaker in Russia than everyone thought. Not only were some people in the military at these military bases in Rostov and Voronezh willing to join with Prigozhin but he was greeted by people in the streets and offered water and offered bread. So, this is really telling us that a lot of people in Russia were supportive of some kind of change. And many people are willing just to standby and wait and see, not to defend Putin.

So, we we're going to -- as Secretary Blinken said, there's a lot yet to play out, and we have to wait and see how this goes.

BOLDUAN: One question I wanted to ask you about is the White House says that Biden and Zelenskyy spoke on Sunday, and that Biden, "Reaffirmed unwavering U.S. support, including through continued security, economic, and humanitarian aid." Do you think this is a moment that President Zelenskyy could leverage to get the additional firepower and equipment that he says that he needs?

VOLKER: Well, we should be giving him that anyway. We should have been doing it weeks and months ago, the long-range artillery, cluster munitions, aircraft, because these are the things that will help the Ukrainians advance and end the war more quickly. So, we should be doing that, regardless. I'm sure President Zelenskyy continues to ask for that. I see no indication of a change in the American position, however. But we should be doing that.

And I would additional element to these considerations. Is that, if you were a Russian soldier in the trenches in Ukraine. And this is going on behind you, and Prigozhin has come out and said the whole thing is a lie, it was a mistake to go in, casualties are much higher, Putin is not being told the truth, he is delusional. If you're a Russian soldier there, you don't want to be dying for this. So, I think there's a real morale problem going on in the Russian forces and something that the Ukrainians can and should take advantage of.

BOLDUAN: As my colleague, John Berman, is just noting. We're going to hear from President Biden pretty soon during the show. What -- how do you think he should handle this publicly? We have heard from Secretary Blinken, they're being very careful, of course, to try -- to not to be involved.

[10:35:00]

They're just not commenting that, as Secretary Blinken says, this shows -- exposes cracks on Putin's grip on power, how do you think -- how would you advice the president to handle all of this publicly?

VOLKER: Well, first of, I think Tony Blinken's statements were spot- on. That was exactly the right thing to say. We couldn't affect this outcome in Russia even if we wanted to. So, we may as well make sure that everyone is clear that we are not behind this.

The second thing is what Stoltenberg said, that I completely agree with, this demonstrates very clearly that it was a mistake to go into Ukraine to begin with. It has weakened Russia dramatically, had weakened Putin dramatically, and they really need to stop the bleeding, the need to get out of Ukraine. That's the only way things are going to stabilize inside Russia, otherwise, I think we are really seeing a rolling defeat to those Russian forces.

BOLDUAN: Ambassador Kurt Volker, thank you so much for coming on.

VOLKER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Great discussion, Kate. Coming up, what caused the deadly implosion of that Titan submersible? The push now to try to recover more debris as the U.S. Coast Guard hoped voice recordings also will give them some clues.

And this morning, I'm going to keep moving. Goodbye.

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[10:40:00]

SIDNER: This morning, a search for answers after a fatal voyage. The U.S. Coast Guard's priority is salvaging what is left of the Titan Submersible from the seafloor. Recovered debris and voice recordings are just part of what investigators are using to determine what caused the Titan to implode. This, as five families are mourning their dead. The mother and wife of two of the tourists who took that ill-fated trip is remembering their adventurous spirit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRISTINE DAWOOD, SON AND HUSBAND DIED ON TITAN: We just hugged and joked, actually, because Shahzad was so excited to go down. He was like a little child. He had this --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: lifelong dream of his?

DAWOOD: Yes, absolutely. He had this ability of child-like excitement. So, they were both so excited. I was really happy for them because both of them, they really, really wanted to do that for a very long time. So, it was supposed to be Shahzada and I going down, and then I stepped back and gave the space to Suleman because he really wanted to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Joining us now from Newfoundland, CNN's Miguel Marquez. What is happening right now, and how are all these investigations working together, because there are quite a few going on at the same time?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Quite a few is an understatement. There are six different investigations or inquiries happening all at the same time. Four different countries will be undertaking those investigations. Right now, on sea floor, there is -- there are submersibles that are -- they're mapping it and then trying to figure out if some of the submersibles can bring up at least small pieces, it sounds like, of the Titan right now. And then, they may want to bring up larger pieces which would be a much more complicated process.

The investigations right now are by the U.S. Coast Guard, the Canadian TSB or Transportation Safety Board, the American National Transportation Safety Board, and then both French and British Marine Safety Boards as well for marine safety boards.

So, a lot of coordination is going to happen on the investigation side. The TSB, the Canadian Transportation Safety Board, they were on board, I'm looking through the Polar Prince, they were on board Polar Prince when it docked this week. And it docked across the harbor in a coast guard dock, and then it's been moved over to its natural home here in front of the Horizon Maritime this morning. But they were able to talk to passengers, talk to OceanGate employees, talk to people on board, and also to get data, voice, video, any sort of information that they will need for their investigation to share with all those other agencies as they move forward.

Paying for all of this, at least the U.S. Coast Guard part of it, you know, this is going to run into millions of dollars. It was 11 surface ships, four planes, and several submersible down there all at the same time over a 13,000 square mile area. So, just a massive, massive effort by many, many agencies.

The U.S. Coast Guard saying that, look, this is what they do. They pick up the tab. When you get into trouble at sea, no matter if it's your fault or something else, they don't ask for a credit card. They just go out and they help them out. So, that piece of it and the investigations now taking full -- taking the full front of this situation now. Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, and I think for people who are confused as to why it's taking so long, it takes 12 hours to get down there, and 12 hours to come back up. So, there's a lot of time expended to try to get to some of that debris. Miguel Marquez, thank you so much for your reporting. Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right. New developments in the investigation into the murder of four University of Idaho students. This morning, the defense is responding to a motion filed by prosecutors claiming that the DNA of accused killer Bryan Kohberger was a statistical match to the DNA at the crime scene.

CNN's Jean Casarez following this story for us. Jean, what are you learning?

[10:45:00]

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're really responding. There is such a battle going on right now with the motions flying back and forth on the DNA. The defense is going to be so aggressive attacking this DNA. We have learned something new in these motions though because the probable cause affidavit did say that the knife sheath lay next to the body of Maddie Mogen, these motions are saying, that knife sheath, it was partially under the body of Maddie Mogen, and partially under the comforter, and it was turned over so the button where that unknown DNA that now they say is a statistical match to Kohberger would be lying flushed to any bedding there.

But here's what the defense is saying. In their latest motion, they are saying, "There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims." There is no explanation, they say, for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohberger's apartment, office, home or vehicle. So, they're saying that there is no DNA evidence that directly links to him in regard to the victims' themselves.

BERMAN: Their DNA around his stuff, right?

CASAREZ: Yes, yes. And that's what they're saying. And we know there was so much blood at the scene. We know that they're -- that obviously it was a quadruple murder, so he had to go from -- or the killer had to go from room to room. Now, his side is also saying there was male DNA of that house of at least two individuals, and male DNA on a glove outside the home. And as far as we know, there was just some basic DNA testing done on it, nothing more.

In other words, they honed in on Kohberger, didn't look at anyone else. And John, they're going to attack this genetic genealogy. They want the public database results. They want all the relatives that had some type of link genetically DNA to Kohberger. Why didn't you look at them? Prosecution is saying you can't have the FBI's work product, that is their work product, there's privacy issue, you can't have a defense. It's going to be a big battle.

BERMAN: How crucial is this evidence to the prosecution, and how badly do they need to win this fight?

CASAREZ: I think the DNA is exhibit A. The DNA is the star witness, from everything that we know, the DNA on that knife sheath is a statical match, according to prosecution, with Bryan Kohberger, they never found the murder weapon. We don't believe there's a knife that they found at all that could have DNA evidence on it. It's just the sheath of the knife that they believe committed those murders.

BERMAN: You covered so many cases, Jean, how likely is it that this evidence, in your experience, would be admissible?

CASAREZ: Well, the DNA on the knife sheath, definitely admissible. Genetic genealogy, never comes into a trial because it's an investigative tool. But if the defense gets all this information and they bring it out, what does that do to genetic genealogy which is solving so many crimes and solving serial killers in their tracks, finding rapists in their tracks so they can't commit more murders and rapes. So, it's critically important.

BERMAN: Jean Casarez, thank you so much for helping us understand the latest there.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Some of the other stories that we're following from around the world at this hour, Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York and ex- wife of Prince Andrew, has undergone surgery for breast cancer. The U.K. Press Association reports her operation was successful and that she's now recovering in Windsor. A spokesperson for the duchess says that she's receiving top medical care and that her prognosis now is good.

And in Alexandria, Egypt, emergency crews are searching for survivors after a 13-story building collapsed early this morning. Officials say the building was used as a rental property for local tourists, but it's not unclear how many people were inside at the time of the collapse. This is unfolding as we speak and we're bring -- we'll -- we will bring you updates.

There is also this that we are watching. Nearly 5,000 humpback whales were spotted off the coast of New South Wales, Australia, yesterday. A huge number, over 1,500 more than last year. Researchers have been tracking the whales during their annual migration from Antarctica to waters off of Australia's northeastern coast. And they say, they believe, that the surge is a sign that humpback -- the humpback whale populations are recovering after near extinction back in the 1950s.

Sara.

SIDNER: Just ahead, a new experimental weight loss drug that the maker says can rival injectables like Ozempic. It's a pill. We'll have that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00] BERMAN: This morning, Eli Lilly says its experimental weight loss pill helped patients lose an average of 15 percent of their body weight, which rivals injectable treatments. CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell joins us now. So, Meg, what about this?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, these drugs that we've heard of called Ozempic and Wegovy, they have to be given by self-injection once a week. And the weight loss can be really significant with them, that's why these drugs have gotten so popular. But for people who don't what to give self-injection, pills are on the way.

A new data presented at a diabetes conference over the weekend showed that they can actually produce similar weight loss as the injectable versions. The one -- the newest one with results is from Eli Lilly, this was a mid-stage trial, showing 15 percent weight loss. Now, the weight loss that we've seen with Wegovy, for example, is about 15 percent in trials. With another drug from Eli Lilly, which is approved for diabetes and is awaiting approval for obesity, we've seen weight loss up to 23 percent. So, it's not quite getting there. But doctors say, having a pill version of this, you can take it once a day, could really help who don't want to do the weekly injections.

BERMAN: What about the side effects?

[10:55:00]

TIRRELL: Yes. So, all of the drugs in this class have similar gastrointestinal side-effects like vomiting, nausea, constipation, things like that. And you do see that with these oral versions of the medicines as well. You see it mostly when you're starting the dose of the drug and increasing it over time. And they say, if you can start with a lower dose and maybe increase more slowly, that can help.

BERMAN: All right. A lot of people will welcome this. Meg Tirrell, thanks very much.

TIRRELL: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate?

BOLDUAN: Coming up, he almost marched all the way to Moscow, but now his whereabouts are unknown. What's ahead for the Wagner leader and what are Putin's plans now after that failed rebellion? We'll be back.

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