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Kremlin: Putin To Make "A Number" Of Statements Soon; WH: "There Was No U.S. Involvement Whatsoever, No Western Involvement" In Wagner Rebellion; Interview With Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, Exiled Belarusian Opposition Leader; Supreme Court Clears Way For Louisiana Congressional Map To Be Redrawn To Add Another Majority Black District. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired June 26, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:31:08]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: This is just into CNN. The Kremlin spokesperson says President Vladimir Putin will be speaking soon, saying he will, quote, "make a number of important statements" this evening.

Keep in mind, it's 9:30 p.m. in Moscow. This should be very soon. It's already getting late there as he has these important statements as they're describing them.

Moments ago, here in the U.S., the White House reiterating that there was no U.S. or Western involvement whatsoever in the rebellion by the Wagner Group in Russia.

In the meantime, the State Department saying the U.S. does not know the location of the group's leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

I want to bring in senior fellow at The Atlantic Council, Michael Bociurkiw.

I want to talk to you a little bit about where we are, where this moment is.

The State Department spokesman, Matthew Miller, just said this is the most dangerous situation that has happened since the beginning of the war.

You are waiting, as we all are, to see what Putin is going to be saying tonight. I wonder, considering this isn't a position of strength that he is in, what he is trying to do here to manage this narrative as you see it?

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, SENIOR FELLOW, THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Good to be with you, again, Brianna.

Well, look, I happen to not subscribe to the consensus view that this was a genuine coup. In fact, if you asked me to put a bumper sticker on this, I would say Russian coup, question mark. The reason I say that is because I think this might have actually been

a very well-scripted attempt by Mr. Putin to do what he always does, play different factions against each other, to test people's loyalty, to do a bit of house cleaning at the top.

Also, it might have been an opportunity as well for him to signal to the West that, look, there are worse autocrats or conmen than myself in the form of Mr. Prigozhin. He has quite the rap sheet against him.

So it remains to be seen. But look, I was raised in the house of a renowned Soviet politician. From a very early age, I was taught to question everything you see spoken by the Kremlin or whatever they project.

KEILAR: You're describing quite some chess there. Explain how that would work if you had Vladimir Putin looking at all these statements recently here from Yevgeny Prigozhin where he's challenging Putin, where he is lambasting the Russian government.

What then would you expect that Putin may have done as you see this outcome here?

BOCIURKIW: Yes, well, I think these are two individuals who are co- dependent on each other.

On the one hand, Mr. Putin is responsible for Mr. Prigozhin being elevated from a crook to a hot dog vendor to be basically the catering operation for the Russian military.

Also, Mr. Prigozhin runs, compared to some Western European armies, like Belgium or the Netherlands, a real significant force. It's a conglomerate that raises a lot of money for the Putin war machine.

And let's not forget the American authorities have blamed Mr. Prigozhin for influencing U.S. elections, meddling, and also spreading false news.

So I can't really believe that Mr. Putin would get rid of Mr. Prigozhin that quickly. He needs him very badly. We may even see him rehabilitated in some way.

KEILAR: Very interesting.

Where do you think -- we just heard from John Kirby speaking from the White House briefing room, that the U.S. does not know where Prigozhin is at this point.

Where do you think he could be? Where do you think he may be headed? Ultimately, Belarus, as we've been told. What do you think?

BOCIURKIW: Well, I'll tell you what he won't be doing. He won't be riding a Belarusian tractor into the sunset. He won't be digging potato fields there. Nor will he be going into exile in the jungles of Africa where Wagner has operations.

[14:35:01] So I think he'll re-emerge in one way or another. Given the way -- Brianna, the way how hopelessly the Russian military has performed, I think this rehabilitation might take place.

We're also getting reports, don't forget, that Wagner is beginning recruiting again of fighters.

It's just really, really difficult to fathom that he would disappear off the face of the earth.

Having said that, stranger things have happened to opponents or people who are suspected of opposing Mr. Putin, falling out of hotel windows, drinking poisoned cocktails, like that sort of stuff.

KEILAR: Yes, what you hear time and again.

You mentioned Wagner's presence in Africa. Wagner has a presence in Syria. Their presence in Africa is incredibly lucrative for Russia. Right? Some of the money brought in from mining there and different operations there, criminal ventures the U.S. would label this.

What does that mean for Putin and for Russia as he proceeds here?

BOCIURKIW: Yes, well, Russia is very dependent on this type of revenue they have had oil revenue choked off in various places, especially oil and gas in Europe.

So I think, for example, in the DRC, Wagner Group is said to have substantial revenue from diamond mining and neighboring countries to the tune of a billion dollars a year. Putin and Kremlin can't have that source of income cut off right now.

The other thing I'd say is that, you know, the difference between Mr. Prigozhin and some of the senior Russian military leaders is that Prigozhin has been seen at the frontline. He's got very strong loyalty among his men.

So this is a fighting force that, if it were immediately disappeared from the frontline, it would really affect Russia's chances, I think, of getting further into Ukraine.

KEILAR: So much to watch here and see how this develops.

Michael Bociurkiw, thank you so much for helping us understand this.

BOCIURKIW: My pleasure.

KEILAR: Boris?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Still ahead, Wagner boss, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says Belarusian President Aleksandr Lukashenko extended his hand and offered to find solutions following the group's insurrection over the weekend.

But Belarusian officials say they haven't confirmed if Prigozhin has arrived in that country or what his status is going to be. A Belarus opposition leader joins us live when we come back.

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[14:41:56]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: We are standing by now for Russian President Vladimir Putin to make a statement at any moment, so says his spokesman.

This after Putin allegedly agreed to a deal brokered by Belarusian President Aleksandr Lukashenko to allow Prigozhin to apparently escape through exile in Belarus, along with some of his forces.

There are still so many questions remaining, including where is Prigozhin?

Belarusian state media just announced that Lukashenko will, quote, "answer all," apparently referring to questions around that brokered deal. We'll see if he delivers.

Joining me now to discuss is the exiled Belarusian opposition leader, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya.

Thank you for joining us.

SVIATLANA TSIKHANOUSKAYA, EXILED BELARUSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So you're joining us now from Lithuania.

To your knowledge, is Yevgeny Prigozhin or any of his forces now in Belarus?

TSIKHANOUSKAYA: First of all, Aleksandr Lukashenko is not the president of Belarus. He's a person who seized power and keeps people as hostages.

Going to your question, we don't have confirmation that Prigozhin arrived in Belarus. The information about Wagner's camps in Belarus has not been confirmed either.

The result of the information right now, but the goal is to mislead and oppress the real authorities and people to resist.

But nevertheless, I don't know what Prigozhin intends to do in Belarus, but he's definitely not welcome in our country. He's a war criminal and he can bring the war to Belarus. We don't want that.

We heard from Prigozhin today that Lukashenko promised him to legalize the Wagner crew. What that means in practice, we don't know. There are rumors that Wagner wants to open up in our territory.

If that happened, there could be threats. Just imagine thousands of foreign troops in our territory. Prigozhin might be involved in military training or whatever.

SCIUTTO: To your point, I know you and your team --

TSIKHANOUSKAYA: -- banishment.

SCIUTTO: Sorry. We lost you for a moment. Finish your thought.

TSIKHANOUSKAYA: Yes, I just heard an interesting opinion today that we don't know if banishment of Prigozhin is deportation or permission, for example, to make provocation in Belarus on the eve of NATO convening.

SCIUTTO: You have said if Prigozhin and his forces were to come to Belarus or his presence there confirmed, that would be a threat, not only to Belarus, but also to neighboring countries, including NATO allies, such as Poland.

What threat exactly?

TSIKHANOUSKAYA: Of course, it's not excluded that Prigozhin could be involved in another attack on Ukraine from Belarus territory. However, Ukraine is much better prepared than one year ago.

[14:45:08]

But also, if they can create threat to neighbors to create provocations at the border, for example.

Soon, there will be NATO there and it can distract attention. It can make Lithuania to strengthen their military presence on the borders. So many serious things.

SCIUTTO: That is an alarming prospect, trouble on the border with NATO allies.

As you know, Russia has said it is moving or has moved nuclear weapons to Belarus. Is it your belief that they've already moved them there? If it does, what is that threat to Europe?

TSIKHANOUSKAYA: Actually, of course, it might -- the deployment of nuclear weapons is a risk for Belarusian people themselves. This deployment will bring the presence of Russia in our country for many years ahead. And even after changes, it will be difficult to get rid of this weapon.

As I hear from our NATO partners, they say that it doesn't mean a lot for them if nuclear weapons are deployed in Belarus.

We ask them to look at this from the point of view of the Belarus people. Because it makes Belarus a target for forcible counterattack. And of course, this nuclear weapon will be closer to our neighbors.

SCIUTTO: Lukashenko, as I know you believe and there's a lot of evidence, is really a puppet of Putin's. Would Prigozhin, if he goes to Belarus, be safe there or would his life be in danger?

TSIKHANOUSKAYA: I think that Mr. Prigozhin -- this cannot be over. If it wasn't a prepared scenario, for example, let's take that for granted.

Putin or Prigozhin himself, they would like to take revenge. Putin for this humiliation and Prigozhin for, you know, just to show, to prove that he is not agreeing with the military power in Russia.

And it also was humiliating for him because he had to return back, heading only 200 kilometers to Moscow. But of course, it will be -- the story is not over.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, I wonder, you know that Putin does not like challenges to his own leadership and power. Lukashenko is his man, in effect, in Belarus. Is your life in danger for challenging Lukashenko?

TSIKHANOUSKAYA: I think that the life and freedom of everyone who is opposing the regime and who is opposing the war, they likely face threats.

Because of course, Lukashenko, it's also a humiliation for Lukashenko that people for three years in a row are opposing him and don't give up.

And we see how he deprived the regime of legitimacy. We create pressure on the regime in the area. And thanks to our light, thanks to the USA, we create the economical pressure on the regime.

Of course, I can feel safe, but now we have to pay attention to the safety of people who are in Belarus, who can be detained at any moment. Every day, 10, 15 people in Belarus are detained every day.

SCIUTTO: I know among them your husband.

Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, thank you so much for joining us. We wish you safety going forward.

TSIKHANOUSKAYA: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Boris?

SANCHEZ: Coming up, after a major Supreme Court decision, a move that could impact the balance of power in Congress, Louisiana will have to redraw its congressional map to add another majority black district.

[14:49:23]

We're going to take you live to Capitol Hill to listen to what impact it will have, when we come back.

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SANCHEZ: The Supreme Court is clearing the way for Louisiana to redraw its congressional map to add another majority black district in the state. The justices reversed plans to hear the case themselves and lifted a hold being placed on a lower court's order.

This decision appears to be an immediate result from the justices' surprise opinion, I should say, against Alabama a few weeks ago. CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill for us.

Manu, could this ruling potentially change the balance of power in Congress?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It potentially could, Boris, because of just how narrow the House majority is right now.

Kevin McCarthy, the speaker of the House, he only can lose, at the most, four seats in order to become speaker of the House again in the new Congress. If Democrats pick up five seats, they'll take the majority here.

We expect -- as a result of the Supreme Court ruling earlier this year in Alabama, we expect there to be an additional Democratic seat in a majority minority district that will tend to favor Democratics there.

And also in Louisiana, in the aftermath of today's ruling, that still has to work its way out through the court process.

But if it shakes out the way that advocates in particular think, that Democrats think, they can pick up an additional seat in Louisiana. A delegation that just has now one Democratic seat.

[14:55:09]

So where did the other seats come from? That's still an open question. There are other redistricting cases, too, that could favor Republicans in Ohio and in North Carolina. Those still need to play out.

Also, some other big states, like Georgia and Wisconsin, still outstanding on those issues, drawing the lines on the House districts, how that could also shake out.

But perhaps one of the biggest questions here in the months ahead is what will happen in New York. New York was a key state in the last midterm election in 2022.

Republicans managed to run the table on key states, key districts, which is why they took back the House. But will the battle lines change ahead of 2024?

That's another major, major question, Boris, all of which will have a huge impact on whether it's Joe Biden in the second term or a new Republican president -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Yes, again, underscores the precarious position that House Speaker McCarthy is in.

Manu Raju, from Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

Brianna?

KEILAR: Moments ago, the Kremlin announcing that Vladimir Putin will, quote, "make a number of important announcements," or statements this evening, they called them. This after the most serious threat to his power in more than 20 years. We'll have more of that ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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