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Yevgeny Prigozhin Now in Belarus?; Trump, DeSantis Campaign in New Hampshire; New Trump Audiotape. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired June 27, 2023 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:18]
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: President Biden is hosting President Obama for lunch today. We're told they're going to discuss boosting Democratic enthusiasm for 2024.
"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We have the tape.
CNN exclusively obtains the 2021 audio where Donald Trump talks about holding secret documents that he did not declassify. New details on that critical conversation and how it plays into the special counsel's case.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus: stranded and flustered. The fourth straight day of widespread cancellations for airline passengers. And the FAA says, buckle up, because it's not over yet, and it's not just bad weather. We're going to tell you what's behind the chaos.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: "You will be crushed like a bug." That was the Belarusian president's warning to the Wagner chief if his forces continued their march towards Moscow. Alexander Lukashenko revealed what he said were new details about the deal he made with the Russian mercenary leader, who he claims is now in Belarus.
We are following all the developments on these stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
KEILAR: Another explosive tape of Donald Trump in his own words now public. CNN has exclusively obtained audio of a 2021 meeting at the former president's New Jersey golf club.
And this is a meeting that federal prosecutors have zeroed in on, because Trump talks about holding, physically holding, classified documents. You can hear papers rustling. And Trump says he no longer has the power to declassify the documents.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just found -- isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.
STAFFER: Mm-hmm.
TRUMP: Except it is, like, highly confidential.
STAFFER: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information.
STAFFER: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: See, as president I could have declassified it.
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: Now I can't. But this is classified.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KEILAR: Still a secret, he says.
And those are just some of the things that Trump says in that tape that undercut his public claims, as he is facing 37 federal charges related to alleged mishandling of classified documents.
We have more on this Trump audio now with CNN's Sara Murray.
Sara, tell us what else is on this tape.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, this is striking, because Donald Trump is in a meeting with two writers who are working on a book for Mark Meadows, the former White House chief of staff, as well as two Trump staffers.
None of these people have security clearance, and they're all talking very casually about this very sensitive document at a time when Trump was furious with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Mark Milley. Take a listen to more of that audio.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: These are bad, sick people, but...
STAFFER: That was your coup, you know, against you.
TRUMP: Well, it started right at the beginning.
STAFFER: Like, when Milley is talking about, Oh, you were going to try to do a coup.
TRUMP: Right.
STAFFER: No, they were trying to do that before you even were sworn in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right, trying to overthrow your election. TRUMP: Well, with Milley -- let me see that. I will show you an
example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran.
Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers. This thing just came up. Look, this was him.
They presented me this. This is off the record. But they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
WRITER: Wow.
TRUMP: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me. This was him, all sorts of stuff, pages' long. Look.
Wait a minute. Let's see here.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh.
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: I just found -- isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.
STAFFER: Mm-hmm.
TRUMP: Except it is, like, highly confidential.
STAFFER: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information.
STAFFER: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: But look. Look at this.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now, Trump told FOX News that there was no document, that these were just magazine articles, newspaper articles rustling around.
But when you listen to that tape, he says things like, "I will show you an example" and "These are the papers." And we know, of course, that prosecutors have also talked to Mark Milley as part of this investigation. They talked to at least one of the people who was present for that meeting.
So you can bet that they're asking people about what kinds of documents they may have seen, as they're looking into this as part of classified documents case, Brianna.
KEILAR: Yes, certainly.
And, today, we're also learning a key witness is set to be interviewed in this other part of the special counsel probe, which is the part that looks at efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
What can you tell us about that?
[13:05:01]
MURRAY: That's right.
I mean, we have said the special counsel is busy on that front, and that has certainly been the case this week. He is set to interview Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger tomorrow. Investigators for the special counsel's office are going to be interviewing Raffensperger in Atlanta.
And, of course, we know Raffensperger was on the receiving end of this call in January 2021 from Donald Trump, where Trump is railing about the election results, pressuring Raffensperger to just find the votes needed for Trump to win the state of Georgia, which he, of course, lost.
So it's interesting, because it's a little bit late in the game, later than you would expect someone like Jack Smith's office to be talking to someone like Raffensperger, who had such a public role in some ways in Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, Brianna.
KEILAR: Yes, certainly.
Sara Murray, great reporting. Thank you for that -- Boris.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Let's expand the conversation now with CNN senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid and CNN chief legal analyst Laura Coates.
Thank you both for being with us.
Paula, you were part of the team that broke the story that Jack Smith had this tape in his possession. Do we know yet if investigators have the actual document that Trump was apparently referring to?
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Boris, we don't know if they ever found this particular document.
We know that the Trump team was subpoenaed for anything related to Mark Milley. They were not able to locate this, so it definitely wasn't handed over from the Trump team. But what we do know is that they're aware of the document. They know about it. They have spoken, as Sara noted, to Mark Milley.
They have also spoken to at least one other person who was in the room for this meeting who could talk about what exactly they saw. So there are other ways that they can try to piece together for themselves and potentially eventually for a jury exactly what was going on here. SANCHEZ: Laura, from a former federal prosecutor's perspective, how
strong is the tape if Trump can now just say it was actually a bunch of newspapers that I was waving, it wasn't a classified document?
LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the context of this.
And I remember you had dramatic reading of the transcript at one point, Paula.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Now that we actually hear the audio of this...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
COATES: It's very hard to sort of disassociate the idea of it being a document in front of him, his comments to Bret Baier about it wasn't a document, per se, his comments at a town hall about not having it, and then hearing the actual transcript and the audio portion of it.
But, remember, this is all about buttressing the otherwise evidentiary foundation of their case, about the withholding and the unlawful retainer of documents, about conspiracy and obstruction. So it does have a very interesting aspect of it, but they have to prove the underlying charges here, that there was documents he otherwise should not have happened had in Florida, which is where they brought this case.
The question will be whether this audio is played in a Florida courtroom, because it's obviously based in Bedminster, New Jersey, or will they use it to try to show a kind of state of mind or his own statements and get it in, in a different way.
SANCHEZ: Well, it's interesting you said that, because a former Trump White House lawyer, Jim Schultz, raised the question of whether this would even wind up being played in court. Let's play that clip for our viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: The big question is going to be, what comes in at trial under the Classified Information Procedures Act? Is this all going to be admissible? Probably so, and it's going to be a big hurdle for them to get over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Could the defense argue that this tape shouldn't be admissible as evidence?
COATES: Not under the theory he's talking about, the classified information, CIPA.
That's more geared with what the evidence can actually come in for a jury, if it's of a sensitive enough nature, in order to have the actual documents or some readout the documents actually there.
What I'm talking about is the burden of trying to get a document -- a statement. It's an out-of-court statement made, right, whether it's about hearsay or non-hearsay. It's a statement of the actual defendant, right? So that's an exception you can actually use, but how it comes in to be able to support the underlying case.
Everything you have ever said in your entire life or every document you want to get in doesn't always come in. The judge has a lot of power in trying to decide through the motion practice what's going to come in and what's not going to come in. And so that's really the underlying issue here.
The CIPA aspect of it, it has a protracted portion of what the juries might ultimately see in this case. But as far as what Trump himself, as the defendant, has said, not going to be through CIPA.
SANCHEZ: Paula, staying on the classified documents case, Walt Nauta, Trump's personal assistant, he was due in court today, didn't show up because, as many have experienced in the Northeast, there are airline issues, cancellations and such.
REID: Yes.
SANCHEZ: He's due back in court July 6, but he's having some issues finding an attorney.
REID: He is. He has an attorney, Stanley Woodward, who is paid by a Trump-linked PAC, political action committee. And he has so far not hired anyone who is based in Florida.
Now, at the very minimum, they need someone who is licensed in the Southern District of Florida to be able to wave Stanley Woodward in, to be able to at least conduct this arraignment. Now, there were suggestions that they were going to use one of former President Trump's lawyers. He's the former Florida solicitor general. They have not done that. It's been suggested to me that he's still trying to find local counsel to handle this.
[13:10:02]
But look, Boris, independent of the geography, the fact is that, at some point, Walt Nauta's interests are going to diverge from those of the former president. And he has been under enormous pressure throughout this investigation to flip.
And, at some point, he's going to have to make a decision if he wants to cooperate. And that's going to be pretty hard to do when your lawyer is paid for, right, by a Trump-funded or a Trump-linked political action committee. So that's a big storyline, his whole legal team, not just for the geography, not just for the hey, you need somebody to get you through the arraignment, but in terms of his relationship to former President Trump.
SANCHEZ: A really interesting position that he's in.
And, quickly, Laura, I just want to get your thoughts on Brad Raffensperger talking to the special counsel.
COATES: Unbelievable to think of that, right?
This is all part of a larger conversation. We're waiting for Fani Willis and the conversations around there. We knew that Raffensperger was somebody who was completely averse to doing that which he was instructed and strong-armed to try to do.
Having his testimony under oath of some kind is going to be very important in the long run to what would ultimately come in any investigation or trial against the former president.
SANCHEZ: Laura Coates, Paula Reid, appreciate the analysis. Thanks so much -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, in the midst of all this former President Trump is stumping in New Hampshire today. And it is not just the leaked tape that has his campaign trying to put out fires.
House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, one of Trump's critical allies in Congress, raised some doubt about Trump's 2024 prospects.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Could he win an election and get...
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Can he win that election? Yes, he can.
QUESTION: You think he can? You...
MCCARTHY: The question is, is he the strongest to win the election? I don't know that answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: He doesn't know.
CNN's Kristen Holmes is on the trail in New Hampshire.
And McCarthy, as you know, has toed the Trump line loyally since just a couple of weeks after January 6, that visit to Mar-a-Lago. I wonder how the Trump team is reacting to McCarthy's words this time.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, the advisers and allies I have talked to have been outraged.
I spoke to one ally who said he's been on the phone since that interview happened, that the Trump team is very upset. They are angry.
You got to keep in mind that since, as you mentioned, a few weeks after January 6, when McCarthy, on tape, it emerged that he had said he'd call for Trump's resignation, he went down to Mar-a-Lago, and he's been considered a staunch ally of the former president's.
But, on top of that, the former president and his team believed that they got McCarthy elected to the speakership, that it was Trump's urging of those holdout votes that actually secured the speakership for him. And, again, this is the farthest we have ever seen McCarthy actually go when talking about Trump as a candidate.
For months, I have been asking some of Trump's closest advisers why it is that they hadn't just full-throated endorsed him for 2024 yet, and they really brushed that question off time and time again, saying they had a lot of people to please, that McCarthy had a lot of people to please in the House.
But, clearly, here, many of them felt that he crossed a line.
SCIUTTO: So you have another candidate. You have a few other candidates for the Republican nomination.
The one closest to Trump, Ron DeSantis, of course, he's also taking his chances now in New Hampshire. I wonder how the two are interacting and what Trump has had to say about him.
HOLMES: Yes, so the two of them are not going to interact at all, but they are only 42 miles apart, with DeSantis in another part of New Hampshire.
And, actually, this trip was not without drama. Right now, Trump himself is considered the front-runner in this state. He's widely popular. There's really a question of whether or not DeSantis can clear a path for himself, specifically after a series of perceived stumbles here in the state.
We have to remember that New Hampshire is a unique state with unique voters, and they come to have a certain level of expectation from their candidates. And one of the things that was upsetting to many voters was when DeSantis didn't take questions after a town hall or after a speech.
The other was this event today. He scheduled an event at the same time as this event, this event, this ladies luncheon, putting out a statement saying that this is unprecedented, going to compete with the former president, compete with their event.
But, again, the question right now is whether or not he can actually clear a path for himself.
SCIUTTO: Well, New Hampshire often the location of surprises in presidential cycles. We will see if it can deliver another one this time. It's a long way off.
Kristen Holmes, thanks so much -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Yevgeny Prigozhin, the mercenary boss behind the Russian rebellion, is reportedly in Belarus now after days of unknown whereabouts. Ahead, we will have new details on the negotiations that ended that revolt.
And the Supreme Court has just rejected a legal theory that would have radically changed U.S. elections. We will explain that ahead. Plus: Through the fog of conspiracies and suspicions,the DOJ has
released a scathing report on the death of accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein.
You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:18:45]
KEILAR: We have new details on the negotiations that ended the biggest threat to Vladimir Putin's rule in decades.
The president of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko, telling state media today that, at one point on Saturday, Putin himself said he was not getting any responses from Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the mercenary group that was threatening to move on Moscow.
Lukashenko said he told Prigozhin to stand down or he would be -- quote -- "crushed like a bug," adding that Prigozhin did arrive in Belarus today.
In the meantime, Russia says it is dropping charges against Prigozhin's troops, and yet Putin played up the threat they may have posed, while praising his military forces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Real defenders of the motherland who took part in fighting as comrades against this chaos, the result of which, inevitably, would have been chaos, you saved our people, our homeland. Virtually, you stopped a civil war.
In actual fact, you stopped a civil war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is following all of this from Kyiv.
Nick, what more are we learning about how this all came to resolution?
[13:20:01]
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, as the sort of narrative propaganda gears of the Kremlin finally, after two-and-a-half days of relative silence, kick into gear, we're hearing a bizarre series of explanations and narrative from Vladimir Putin, repeatedly in front of troops telling land forces that, frankly, on Saturday barely seemed to get in the way of advancing Wagner troops that they indeed, in fact, had saved the nation, has saved it from civil war.
Going on to say that Yevgeny Prigozhin had, despite his Wagner operation, long for years being something Moscow said it had nothing to do with, that, in fact, Wagner had over the last year alone got over a billion dollars of state money, a bizarre self-own, frankly, from the Russian president.
That's his narrative. Hard to see who in Russia will be buying it. But then we have a much more colorful, frankly, expletive-laden, it seems, at times, rant from the Russian -- sorry -- the Belarusian president, Alexander Lukashenko, a man that often is held in disregard by Vladimir Putin as a subordinate.
But, today, he at great length explained, it seems, according to him, seminal role in stopping the events on Saturday. He says he had a 30- minute-plus phone call initially with the Yevgeny Prigozhin, during which he said the mercenary boss used 10 times more expletives than normal words.
And then, over a series of phone calls, during which he said, look, if you keep going to Moscow, you will be crushed like a bug, he eventually persuaded Prigozhin to move to Belarus under his protection, for safety, and to bring some of his fighters there as well.
Lukashenko casting himself very much as the hero here. Some of this is pretty believable, frankly. It's been echoed by the Kremlin, echoed by Prigozhin himself. Importantly too, yes, as you said, Lukashenko says that Prigozhin is now in Belarus. We haven't had that confirmed by Prigozhin himself.
But, wow, what an extraordinary end to all of this, Vladimir Putin speaking of a parallel reality, in which the military stepped forward and saved the Russian people from a revolt, where, frankly, it appears to be the president of neighboring Belarus who, in fact, got in the way here and calmed things down.
And Prigozhin, while a headache for Vladimir Putin, but one that's been transferred just across the border to Belarus, and it does appear he won't be prosecuted and his fighters may even get to join him and continue being part of Wagner there, a bizarre end to a very dangerous weekend for the Russian head of state -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Yes. And Lukashenko is relishing this moment. We will see if that continues.
Nick Paton Walsh live for us in Kyiv, thank you for that -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, what happens now? Who came out on top? Joining me now, Seth Jones, director of the International Security Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and retired Army Colonel Liam Collins.
Good to have you both on.
Seth, I'm curious what you think happens from here. And I want to first play the thoughts of Bill Browder, who, of course, I'm sure you know, helped pass the sanctions law against Putin allies, also has become a target himself of Putin. Have a listen, and I want to get your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BILL BROWDER, PUTIN CRITIC: In my opinion, the only way that Putin can stay in power is for him to reassert his authority. And the only way he can do that is to become extremely aggressive, dangerous and violent towards all sorts of people who he doesn't believe are loyal to him.
And so I think there's going to be a huge sort of purge, crackdown, whatever you want to call it, of the elite, of the government, of the military, and of the oligarchs for Putin to reestablish his authority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Seth, do you see that here, an almost Soviet-style purge to come?
SETH JONES, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Yes, I do think that is a reasonable possibility, although I think it's important to understand that, if this were to happen, it's likely to be more than just in Russia itself.
I mean, the reality of Prigozhin and Wagner is that they are involved in a whole range of activities, from site security, to intelligence collection, to creating front companies for the extraction of resources in Africa, in the Middle East, in Venezuela, and then in other places, including Asia.
So, if there's going to be a bloodbath and a reckoning, it is likely to be global in nature, in part because Wagner's tentacles are actually much bigger than just Russia itself. It also would be a huge gamble for Putin, because he may actually undermine power even more if that's the direction he goes.
SCIUTTO: Colonel, I wonder if you agree. And I'm also curious what your view is of the state of Putin's power now. This was clearly a very public threat, challenge to Putin's power here.
Has he emerged, I don't know if unscathed is the right word, but has he at least emerged from this?
COL. LIAM COLLINS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Yes, I mean, what we don't know, is this the beginning of the end of Putin, or is this just one more, the latest example or demonstration of how Putin has been able to maintain -- maintain power for two-plus decades?
And so it's really too early to see. But, I mean, clearly, he does not have the control he once had. I mean, for weeks, we have Prigozhin very public with his criticisms. And back in May, right, Russian nationalists felt emboldened enough to conduct the attack on the border region of Belgorod from Ukraine.
[13:25:13]
And so his power is definitely not what it used to be.
SCIUTTO: Seth Jones, Russia's Federal Security Service has dropped charges for now against Prigozhin and his fighters who engaged. And we should know that they killed Russian soldiers in this operation. They shot down multiple Russian aircraft. Does that last? Are they in the clear, as it were? Can they realistically continue functions from a proposed safe haven in Belarus?
JONES: Well, that's a very good question and one that I think we're going to have to see how that unfolds over the next several weeks.
What I will say is, it is a complete capitulation to Wagner, because I think it looks like, at this point, Prigozhin is not going to be prosecuted. His contractors will be given amnesty, as you noted.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
JONES: That is a capitulation to an organization that just posed a reasonable threat against the Kremlin.
So, I think, if there is a next step for various elements within Russia's security establishment, we know -- I mean, I have talked to some senior Russian leaders on the military side -- they would like to see Prigozhin dead.
SCIUTTO: Wow.
JONES: So, this is like the mafia component of the Russian state. And there may be reckoning by other elements of the Russian security apparatus.
SCIUTTO: Just briefly, when you spoke to senior -- current senior Russian military leaders, they say they want Prigozhin dead. Are they still loyal to Putin?
JONES: Well, I think they are to some degree.
I mean, this is the -- these are the individuals that are close to Gerasimov and Shoigu. They're both loyal to Putin at this point. You know, they're also the target of Prigozhin. That's where some of the tension is.
I mean, I would characterize this tension between the formal elements of Moscow's security apparatus, that is, the military, and the mafia component to the security apparatus, which is the paramilitary groups like Wagner, that tension, I do not think, is going to go away.
SCIUTTO: Colonel Collins, before we go, my colleague Erin Burnett spoke to the Ukrainian foreign minister, who said that the threat to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant remains.
There's been a story out there of Russian forces packing it with explosives as a threat to carry out an attack there. Is that, in your view, a genuine threat, a sort of Russian threat of a dirty bomb, effectively, a huge one?
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, I see that as unlikely.
I mean, we kind of had that same rhetoric early in the war up by Chernobyl, kind of the same thing. It's not in Russia's interests to blow up a nuclear power plant. I mean, they have plenty of sanctions in opposition to them now. I mean, that would escalate it to a whole new level.
It just seems not plausible as something that Russia is likely to do.
SCIUTTO: Understood, one that would certainly peel away its support from China.
Colonel Collins, Seth Jones, good to have you both on -- Boris.
JONES: Thanks, Jim.
SANCHEZ: Widespread flight cancellations stranding passengers nationwide for the fourth straight day. We're going to talk about what this means for your busy summer travel season.
And for the first time in 20 years, people have been infected with malaria here in the United States. A warning from the CDC -- when we come back.
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[13:30:00]
