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Awaiting Supreme Court Ruling on Key Cases; Biden to Tout Economy; Trump Countersues E. Jean Carroll; Interview With Gov. Doug Burgum (R-ND); Federal Authorities Interview Rudy Giuliani. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired June 28, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:20]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Rudy Giuliani speaking to federal investigators, a CNN exclusive. And now CNN has also learned Georgia's secretary of state is set to do the same today, how this investigation into Trump is heating up now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: How high did it go? New reporting just in on the plans in place for the revolt in Russia, including a plot to kidnap key Putin advisers.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: And flying off the handle, passengers enraged at airports. More than 700 flights have been canceled, some passengers being told they can't get a flight out for days. Be ready. This holiday travel weekend could leave you stuck.

I'm Sara Sidner, along with John Berman and Kate Bolduan. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

BOLDUAN: After today, special counsel Jack Smith could be a major step closer to deciding if Donald Trump will face charges related to the ongoing probe into trying to turn -- overturn the 2020 election results.

These two men are the reason why I say that, former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. CNN has exclusively learned federal investigators interviewed Giuliani in recent weeks. And, today, Raffensperger is expected to also face questions, this all having to do with the parallel special counsel investigation, if you will, by the Justice Department into Trump's efforts to change the outcome of his 2020 election loss.

You will recall Raffensperger was the state official that Donald Trump asked in that phone call to find the votes he said he needed in Georgia.

Let's get to the person who's covered this soup to nuts, from beginning to end, Sara Murray joining us, joining me now.

Sara, let's start with Rudy Giuliani. What more are we learning about this?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, my colleague Paula Reid and I learned that Rudy Giuliani did sit down with federal investigators in recent weeks.

His political adviser said in a statement that this was a voluntary interview, it was conducted in a professional manner. We still don't know exactly what the focus is. But we know that, months and months ago, Giuliani got a subpoena from federal investigators looking for information about payments he got around the 2020 election.

We also know that Jack Smith, the special counsel, has been looking into the whole fake electors scheme, and Giuliani played a role in overseeing the fake electors across seven battleground states. And we also know witnesses are getting questions about what the lawyers around Donald Trump in the wake of the 2020 election were doing in a number of them, including Giuliani, who were spreading baseless claims of election fraud.

So these are all areas the special counsel could be probing. And, as you said, we're seeing a lot of activity right now around the January 6 investigation. And some sources familiar with the case say Jack Smith could be nearing some charging decisions.

BOLDUAN: As far as Brad Raffensperger, what are you hearing about what his sit-down could mean today?

MURRAY: Well, he is sitting down with investigators from Jack Smith's team in Atlanta. And this is interesting because it's pretty late in the game to see big names like Brad Raffensperger and Rudy Giuliani talking to these investigators.

Obviously, Raffensperger is someone we know who was sort of in Donald Trump's crosshairs because the phone call that Trump made to Raffensperger in January 2021 was so public. Let's just take a listen to a portion of that call.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

[11:05:03]

MURRAY: So, again, this is an interview Raffensperger is doing with federal investigators. We don't know yet of any grand jury appearance.

And we don't know if this is, frankly, just Jack Smith's team checking the box, making sure they talk to him, or if there could be more to this sort of Georgia angle that they're investigating, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Great question. Great to see you, Sara. Thank you -- John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, Donald Trump with new reaction after CNN obtained an audio recording where he seems to be discussing a secret document he still had in his possession after leaving the White House. Trump now claims he -- quote -- "did nothing wrong."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The voice was fine. What did I say wrong in those recordings? I didn't even see the recording. All I know is, I did nothing wrong. We had a lot of papers, a lot of papers stacked up.

In fact, you could hear the rustle of the paper. And nobody said I did anything wrong, other than the fake news, which, of course, is FOX too. Got a whole desk full of lots of papers, and mostly newspaper articles, copies of magazines, copies of different plans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, that argument not convincing to some Republicans, including former Utah Governor and Trump's own ambassador to Russia Jon Huntsman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Would you vote for him in 2024 if he's the nominee? Do you think he can win the election?

FMR. GOV. JON HUNTSMAN JR. (R-UT): No and no. I think the legal entanglements, Kaitlan, are going to be severe. And I think it's going to cut into the base that he has and make the mathematics absolutely impossible for victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With me now is someone running against Donald Trump, North Dakota Governor and Republican presidential candidate Doug Burgum.

Governor, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

I assume you have heard the tape obtained by CNN where you can hear Trump's voice talking about something, saying: I have a big pile of papers. This thing just came up. Look. This was him. They presented me this. This is off the record. This was him. This is from the Defense Department.

What do you hear in that? And what concerns might you have?

GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, what I hear is, when we're talking about 2020 election, when we're talking about documents, we're not talking about the future. We're talking about the past.

And what I'm running, I'm running because, America, we're facing challenges with our economy, with our energy policy with national security. There are the challenges going on in the world, what's happening in Russia, Ukraine, what's happening with China. We're in a cold war with China. We're in a -- essentially, in a war with Russia.

We have sent everything but troops. And I know that it's -- it's great for President Biden when all we're doing is talking about the past, but I'm running for president against President Biden. And I think we want -- at least in our campaign, we want to talk about energy, we want to talk about economy, we want to talk about national security, the things that matter to Americans going forward.

BERMAN: Well, how one handles national secrets is an issue before, during and after.

Look, if you win the White House, someday you will be a former president. Would you have a discussion like that as a former president?

BURGUM: Well, John, I spent 30 years in the tech sector. And it just astounds me that we have got a document management problem in this age and that we're actually still talking about paper.

But whether it's Hillary's e-mails, whether it's Pence, Trump, Biden, I think we have a document management problem. I think we have two million federal employees. When I'm president, I'm going to make sure that we have got the procedures in place so that the documents, when an official leaves government, they're not taking documents with them.

And then we don't have to have the whole nation talking about past document handling versus us talking about the things that matter to Americans, I mean, because when we're out on the trail, and we're talking to people worried about the inflation on food, the price of gas at the pump, these are things that are touching everybody right now.

And this is what our nation needs to be focusing on, because you know who loves when we're talking about internally fighting over how we have managed or mismanaged documents in the past is, of course, our adversaries around the world...

BERMAN: Yes.

BURGUM: Again, China, Russia and others, they love it when we're having these internal battles...

BERMAN: One of those...

BURGUM: ... and taking our eye off of what's important for America and the world.

BERMAN: One of those adversaries, I would think that you consider to be Vladimir Putin, the leader of Russia.

President Biden just a short time ago said that he thinks that Putin is weaker today that he was a week ago because of the revolt there. What do you see as the U.S. interest in removing Putin from power?

BURGUM: Well, I think that what we see with the week's events, the past week's events, the revolt, is that there's going to be a regime change in Russia. We just don't know when.

But when you have got a nuclear power that's been controlled by one individual, and it -- we can't even think about it as is typical country. I mean, what is Putin estimated to have amassed? Over $70 billion of personal wealth. Prigozhin, with the Wagner Group, there are 65 shell companies that we know of.

[11:10:01]

I mean, the Wagner Group has taken over gold mines in the Central African Republic. They're in Latin America. They're all over the world, essentially a large criminal enterprise. And so -- and that was someone that basically was a creation of -- by Putin.

And so we don't know what's ahead. But I do know that, when we put sanctions on Russia on energy, for example, and we think that we're hurting Russia, Russia has to sell their oil and gas on the market at a discount because of the sanctions, well, who's buying it? Well, China, the world's largest oil and gas importer in the world, over 10 million barrels a day, is -- now has an opportunity to buy energy at 20 percent off.

I think Americans would like to have the opportunity to have lower gas prices. But -- so some of the things that we're doing, even as we battle with Russia, it's not -- it's not independent. Russia has become Chinese gas station. And these sanctions, if they're helping China, that's not helping America.

BERMAN: I'm looking at the primary calendar here, the early nominating states, Iowa likely in January, Nevada February, obviously New Hampshire February, Super Tuesday early March, Michigan at the end of February.

When you look at this calendar, Governor, where's the first place you need to win?

BURGUM: Well, we have to have a strong start in Iowa, and then we have to have a better showing in New Hampshire.

I mean, the way these work, the way they have always worked is, whoever's got momentum coming into the beginning of the season, when people are actually going to the polls and starting to vote in the primaries -- and we're -- we have got a great president in Iowa, New Hampshire.

We have got -- coming from a small town in North Dakota, I was -- grew up in a town of 300 people. My dad was a Navy veteran from World War II. He passed away when I was a freshman in high school. And that was tough. But my mom went back to work, three -- widow with three kids. I inherited a little bit of farm ground from my dad.

I bet that -- I bet that farm ground as the mortgage to start a software company, and we turned it into a -- 18 years later, it was an overnight success story. We were selling products all over the globe, had built a company with 2,000 people.

And so, when you think about Iowa, New Hampshire, a lot of those primary voters live in small towns. They appreciate someone who understands what it's like to get up every day. Every job I had until I was in my mid-20s, I took a shower at the end of the day, not at the beginning of the day, because I was working on the farm, on the ranch, in the grain elevator, and even as a chimney sweep when I -- to get my way through college.

BERMAN: I got to let you run here,but one very quick question of parochial interest. Should North Dakotan Roger Maris be in the Hall of Fame?

BURGUM: Absolutely, Roger Maris should be in the Hall of Fame, Fargo High School, Shanley grad, incredible. His record stood for decades and decades. And it's just a tragedy that he's not already in there, because one of the most coveted records, and just improbable, amazing story.

Absolutely, he should be in.

BERMAN: All right, North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, thank you for being with us this morning. Really appreciate it. Come back to CNN NEWS CENTRAL -- Sara.

SIDNER: One thing you should know about John, he loves to cover politics, but he loves sports even more.

All right, the legal battles are piling up in Trump land. Now the former president is bringing a case of his own. He is countersuing E. Jean Carroll. You will remember she sued him civilly, and a jury agreed with her that Trump sexually abused her and then defamed her. Trump now claims Carroll defamed him after the verdict when she appeared here on CNN.

CNN's Kara Scannell has more on this.

What is she -- what is Donald Trump claiming specifically?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Sara.

So this is a new lawsuit filed yesterday, a counterclaim, as you say. And, remember, E. Jean Carroll had sued and a jury had awarded her $5 million because they found that Trump had sexually abused her and defamed her when he denied raping her.

Now Trump is saying that E. Jean Carroll defamed him when she appeared on CNN the following morning after the verdict, and was asked about the jury selecting that he had sexually abused her and not raped her. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: This jury found that Trump did not rape you. What about that moment?

E. JEAN CARROLL, WRITER AND COLUMNIST: Robbie can explain the legal.

HARLOW: Sure. And I want you too, but I just wonder, E. Jean, what went through your head when you heard that?

CARROLL: Well, I just immediately say in my own head, oh, yes, he did, oh, yes, he did. See, that's my response.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL: And it's that statement that Trump is saying now was defamatory.

Now, E. Jean Carroll's attorney, Roberta Kaplan, who was sitting beside her in that video, issued a statement about this lawsuit, saying that: "Donald Trump again argues, contrary to both logic and fact, that he was exonerated by a jury that found that he sexually abused E. Jean Carroll."

Now, a judge has allowed Carroll to amend her initial lawsuit from 2019 to include comments that Trump made at a CNN town hall days after the verdict, where he doubled down, denying that he raped her, denying that he knew her. And Carroll is now seeking $10 million in punitive damages for that lawsuit, which is set to go to trial in January -- Sara.

[11:15:05]

SIDNER: Kara Scannell, I do not think there could be more legal issues with the Trump team.

Thank you so much for your reporting -- John.

BERMAN: All right, just minutes from now, President Biden expected to land in Chicago for a speech on his economic priorities. They're calling it Bidenomics. And CNN spoke to one of the president's top advisers.

The Supreme Court getting ready to rule on some of the biggest cases before going on break, including affirmative action. What direction do they seem headed?

More than 80 million Americans under air quality alerts, as smoke from the wildfires in Canada spread south. We will tell you where the air is the most dangerous.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:20:20]

SIDNER: Any moment now, President Biden will arrive in Chicago, where he's hoping to convince voters the U.S. economy is in good shape.

The White House says this is part of their Bidenomics campaign, taking credit for where the economy is headed, while also rejecting policies of past Republican administrations. Think Reaganomics.

But speaking to reporters this morning, the president said he first heard the term Bidenomics from reporters and the media.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins us now from Chicago, where it is very hazy.

What are we expecting to hear from Biden? There are some good indicators in the economy, but not everything is rosy.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, and, listen, the president's speech today is all about addressing what is his central political challenge heading into his reelection effort, and that is to try and convince voters that the economy is actually in good shape, and that he gets the credit via his policies.

The president has a real challenge there. Yes, inflation is still high, but it is cooling. And the jobs market has remained strong. Despite that, though, despite the fact that the economic indicators are all trending in the right direction, voters simply don't seem to buy it. And that is where the president's challenge is.

I asked the president's top economic adviser about that disconnect in an interview yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: A CNN poll last month found that only 23 percent of Americans rate the economy as at least somewhat good. So how do you explain that disconnect?

LAEL BRAINARD, DIRECTOR, U.S. NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: So, I think the American people have gone through just record economic uncertainty over the last two years, a global pandemic that just went on and on.

So I think what the president would say is, people need to see it. They need to see it in their communities. And that's what his policies are all about. As Americans see that and experience it, the president's confident that they are going to feel much more optimistic about their own economic futures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And Lael Brainard also pointed out to me that Americans typically say that their finances personally are doing well, but yet, when they are asked about the state of the economy, that is when they give negative marks.

And the problem goes beyond that, because, when you look at the president's approval ratings on the economy, you can see that voters are also blaming him for what they perceive as a bad economy, 66 percent of Americans disapproving in that same CNN poll for May, 34 percent approving of the president's handling of the economy.

And so now the president's advisers have landed on this Bidenomics messaging push to try and flip those numbers. It is a central political challenge, though, for the president. And it also runs the risk of Republicans appropriating that term to point to the bad elements of the economy and blaming it on the president.

And also, even though Biden's economic advisers are increasingly confident that we are headed for that soft landing, that elusive soft landing, there is still the possibility of an economic downturn. And that also could be hung on the president -- Sara.

SIDNER: In regular presidential candidate times, the economy is everything. We will wait and see what happens here.

Seeing the president from earlier this morning coming off the plane at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland.

Thank you so much, Jeremy Diamond. Appreciate it -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All this week, you need to keep an eye on the Supreme Court.

Over the next two days, you can expect the High Court to hand down some major rulings on cases involving gay rights, Biden's federal student loan program, and even affirmative action.

CNN's Ariane de Vogue is live in Washington tracking all this for us.

Ariane, the remaining cases have, I mean, it goes without saying, far- reaching implications. Which are grabbing the most attention?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Probably the affirmative action cases.

People are really watching them to see what the court says. Can universities and colleges continue to take race into consideration as a factor in admissions? The plans at issue are the University of North Carolina and Harvard. And the schools say, look, we need diversity here. We need to be able to improve the academic environment.

It is better for our schools. They say, look, the schools are the pipeline to society. It's important. But, on the other hand, you do see the conservative critics and the challengers in this case, and they basically say, look, that amounts to a violation of the Equal Protection Clause.

That discriminates on the basis of race, in violation of federal law. So we will see. The justices at oral arguments seemed skeptical, this conservative court. And, once again, they're being asked to overturn precedent. So that's a big case, and all eyes are watching it.

[11:25:07]

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

I mentioned the student loan, the federal student loan program. Talk to me about what you could see is really at stake here for President Biden in how the justices decide.

DE VOGUE: Right.

So, this -- there's a lot at stake for President Biden. He put forward this policy with the aim to really give relief to millions of people, giving them up to $20,000 relief on these student loans because of COVID. And the states, Republican-led states, again, came to court and they said, look, you can't do that. That amounts to trying to erase billions of dollars of debt.

And if you're going to do something like that, Congress has to step in, not you. Congress has to do it. So, if the court rules against Biden, that's going to be a big blow. But here's one thing to watch in this case. There is an argument that the states don't have the legal right to bring this in the first place.

It's a hurdle. And conservatives, they usually don't like too many people to be able to get in court. If the court dismisses that, says they don't have standing, then that would be a win for Biden. So, again, that would be an interesting case to watch. And we will get it either today -- either tomorrow or Friday.

BOLDUAN: All right, so, and we wait with bated breath, for sure, millions of Americans affected by all of the cases that we're talking about now.

It's good to see you, Ariane. Thank you -- John.

BERMAN: A new report out about the scope of the plot in Russia, plans in place to kidnap top Putin advisers. So, what's the lasting impact here?

Former CENTCOM Commanding General David Petraeus will join us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]