Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Sources: McCarthy Apologized To Trump After Interview; Trump Defends Classified Docs Audio: "It Was Bravado -- I Didn't Have Any Documents"; Today, DOJ Interviews GA Secretary Of State In Election Probe; Giuliani Interviewed In Election Interference Probe; Police Release Body Cam Footage Worn By First Responder To TX Outlet Mall Shooting; $400 Million Federal Lawsuit Accuses MS Deputies Of Torture, Attempted Sexual Assault Of 2 Black Men. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired June 28, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he is moving behind the scenes to make up for what he said after getting cross-wise with the former president by suggesting that Donald Trump was not the strongest candidate here.

Recall that Donald Trump believes that Kevin McCarthy owes the speakership to him. Kevin McCarthy himself, after winning the speakership on the 15th ballot, came out and thanked former President Trump for winning him the gavel.

So there's a belief there that he needs to stay in Donald Trump's good graces.

But things changed in the aftermath of McCarthy's comments yesterday, that Trump may not be the strongest candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Could he win an election --

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Can he win that election? Yes, he can.

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You think he can?

MCCARTHY: The question, is he the strongest to win the election, I don't know that answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, after word got out that Trump and his allies were angry about this, Kevin McCarthy phoned up the former president, apologized to him, suggested his words perhaps were taken out of context.

Then he went even further by issuing statements saying that Trump is the strongest candidate. And even giving an interview to the conservative publication, "Breitbart," saying, "Just look at the numbers this morning, Trump is stronger today than he was in 2016."

That was -- that came as he sent out those fundraising solicitations also calling Donald Trump the strongest possible candidate here.

Really reminiscent, Brianna, of the aftermath of January 6th when Kevin McCarthy said the former president, or then president, bore responsibility for the attack on the capitol.

But just soon after went down to Mar-a-Lago, made peace with the former president. And has since contended that many people are to blame for January 6th, not just the former president.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Taken out of context? I think not. Reported? Yes, his comments were.

Any grumblings from hardcore allies of Donald Trump on the right of the House of Representatives?

RAJU: There has been some. But the -- the hope among some of those members on the far right is to use the situation with Trump against the former speaker, at least start to pressure him to move in their direction on a number of issues.

Whether it's moving forward with potential impeachment proceedings of the attorney general, something the speaker has suggested that he might do. And it's over the Justice Department's handling of the Hunter Biden investigation.

Among some other key issues that are important to the hard-right faction of the House Republican conference that is aligned with Donald Trump.

The belief is, if they can get him on their side, they can pursue their agenda that is important to that element of the conference.

So the hope among the Republicans in that bloc is to perhaps use this against the speaker when they return to session in July -- Brianna?

KEILAR: No doubt they will.

Manu Raju, live for us on the Hill, thank you.

Jim?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: What's it all mean legally? Let's discuss with CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams, also CNN political commentator, former Georgia lieutenant governor, Geoff Duncan.

Good to have you both, gentlemen.

And, Geoff, I want to ask you a question. We've seen this not just with Kevin McCarthy but other Republicans who try to toe the line to some degree on Donald Trump.

And I wonder, do Republican voters reward flip-flopping? Do they buy it? Are they impressed by it? Or do they respect some straight talk?

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, unfortunately, it feels like right now that's what they are gravitating towards, right? This is a short-term sugar high.

And listening to Kevin McCarthy yesterday, I mean, it sounded like a Freudian slip. Right? He spoke his mind, like he did shortly after January 6th. And then fell to peer pressure and turned back to supporting as loudly and publicly as he could Donald Trump.

I think it's a mistake. And it's really what's put us in this juxtapose right now. We've got Donald Trump leading the polls in the primary against what is quite honestly the least most popular president ever. Seven out of 10 Americans still don't want Joe Biden to be president again.

But yet, we're going to probably miss another layup because we can't put the right candidate against Joe Biden.

SCIUTTO: Some of the recent national polls show that his lead is growing even larger.

Elliot, we've got -- and this of course relevant to the political campaign because all these investigations and indictments and possible court cases happening during the campaign.

But we have Trump telling what can only be described as a shifting story on the classified documents case. Multiple descriptions, explanations of what he is heard saying on tape here.

If you were representing him and trying to present the best defense, what will his public comments and changing story and also his comments on that tape have done to your case?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Look, if you're representing him, you would tell him to the extent possible to simply stop talking. But that's not happening. I know. Recognizing that.

But every time a defendant opens his mouth publicly, he runs the risk of creating more evidence that can be used against him.

The problem with the shifting story is, yes, somewhere in there, there is a narrative that actually helps him. But there are also several that don't.

And prosecutors can put in front of a jury that because of the fact that this story has shifted so many times you can't find anything that this witness or this defendant is saying to be credible.

And it just sort of speaks to the believability of his narrative. So it's really not great for him as a defendant.

[14:35:05]

SCIUTTO: Geoff Duncan, I know the conventional wisdom is that these indictments, investigations only help him, Trump, at least with Republican primary voters.

But you come from a state where statewide candidates for office have won, have been re-elected. You look at the governor. You look at the secretary of state. And these are folks who directly challenged Trump and contradicted him in public and Trump didn't like it but they've won.

And I wonder, are you convinced that the conventional wisdom is right, that the aggregate of these communications and charges -- and by the way, there may be more coming including in the state of Georgia before the end of the summer -- are you convinced that that holds?

DUNCAN: Yes, I describe Donald Trump's support in the Republican Party right now as a mile wide and an inch deep. I think Republicans all over the country want an excuse to not vote for or publicly support Donald Trump. But unfortunately, it feels like he's going to win.

But the weight of these investigations have got to continue to just mount on him. Today, we're talking about Brad Raffensperger on the January 6th side of the Department of Justice investigation. This is the fourth investigation slash potential indictment that's out there.

I don't know any human that can deal with multiple state and federal indictments and then run for president around the country all at the same time. It just feels like we're taking our time making the right decision.

But this should be a golden opportunity for a Republican candidate to step up and to put real leadership on display. Don't try to be Donald Trump light. Don't try to beat him at his game.

Just put good leadership on display. And I think the middle part of America and the right is going to gravitate toward them when Donald Trump eventually falls.

SCIUTTO: By the way, two of those cases involve Trump in his own words on tape, not just the phone call to find the votes but his description of classified documents.

I know you don't know, Elliot, but you are a smart guy and you've dealt with cases before and you've watched -- you're watching this case very closely.

If you're the special counsel, you've just called Rudy Giuliani as part of your investigation into Trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election, you've also called back in -- or called in for the first time Brad Raffensperger, of course, highly involved in that phone call.

Does that indicate to you that he's in the final stages of the investigation?

WILLIAMS: Yes, certainly, because he's moving to what are central and critical witnesses. Rudy Giuliani being a former senior aide and attorney to the president.

And Brad Raffensperger, the individual who the target of the investigation, Donald Trump, is on not camera but audio talking to. You're clearly nearing the end of the investigation. To be clear, it's a harder case to prove than the documents matter.

Even in light of that video -- I keep saying video. Even in light of that audio.

What you have is somebody talking about -- a candidate for office who might have been zealously advocating for himself and has a plausible defense versus there were documents in your house that you acknowledge that you had that you obstructed the investigation into.

The documents case is just far more straightforward than some of the more thorny political stuff in Georgia.

SCIUTTO: Well, guys, we've got some more developments to look for in these cases.

Elliot Williams, Geoff Duncan, thanks so much to both of you.

Brianna?

KEILAR: Up next, police just released body cam video from that mass shooting last month at a Texas outlet mall. We'll have that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:42:35]

KEILAR: We're getting a first look at the chilling moments when an Allen, Texas police officer took down a gunman who opened fire at an outlet mall last month. Department officials just released police body cam video from the first responding officer.

Eight people, you may recall, were killed and several others were injured that afternoon of May 6th. Investigators say the shooter possessed patches and tattoos with Neo-Nazi ideation on them.

CNN's security correspondent, Josh Campbell, is here to take us through the video that we're about to see.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bri. This officer is being called a hero after jumping into action after the suspected white supremacist opened fire at a mall.

That officer being credited with potentially saving countless lives after the shooter had killed eight people.

I'll play you part of that video.

What you see here is the officer on the scene. He's on a separate call. He's engaged in typical community policing. You see him interacting with small kids, talking to them about the importance of wearing their safety belt. Then the shots ring out.

I'll warn our viewers, this may be disturbing.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED) UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Make sure y'all be good. OK? And make sure you wear your seatbelts when mommy's driving, OK? You understand? OK?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: All right. You be good.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Seatbelt.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: 1:45, I think we've got shots fired at the outlet mall. They're moving away from me. 1:45, we've got a mass shooter. I've got a mass shooting on the ground.

Drop it! Drop it!

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: I'm passing the injured.

(END AUDIO FEED)

CAMPBELL: Now, that officer chased the shooter around the mall.

Again, I'll warn our viewers. This is disturbing.

This is the moment that police took down the gunman.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Down, bro. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

Stay on the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ground! Stay on the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ground! (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

You good? You got him?

(END AUDIO FEED)

CAMPBELL: Of course, Brianna, that's so chilling. But this is what law enforcement officers in this country are trained to do, to go toward the sound of gunfire to try to save lives.

[14:45:02]

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, Josh, we get a sense of just how quickly that officer was springing into action and also the type of weapons that he and that other officer had in order to combat what this mass shooter was bringing into that outlet mall. This could have been so much worse.

CAMPBELL: Certainly. And this is why we've seen police departments around the country increase their own weaponry to try to match some of these assault-style rifles we're seeing in so many of these mass shootings.

I want to show you this photo. This was obtained by our colleagues, Ashley Colo (ph) and Ed Lavandera, in Dallas from a source who was at the scene of the mass shooting.

On the suspect's chest there, you see additional rounds of ammunition. I'm told by a law enforcement officer that he had multiple rounds on him. Of course that makes this even more chilling.

But for that officer springing into action you can only imagine how much worse this rampage would have been -- Brianna?

KEILAR: That is some hard video to watch.

Josh Campbell, thank you.

Jim?

SCIUTTO: Coming up, two black men say that multiple sheriff's deputies in Mississippi tortured them for nearly two hours. How the department is responding to these alarming accusations.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:31]

SCIUTTO: Authorities have fired multiple sheriff's deputies in Mississippi. This after two black men were accused of entering their home and torturing them for two hours.

The $400 million federal lawsuit filed this month alleges the six white deputies targeted the two men because of the color of their skin.

CNN's Ryan Young joins us now.

So, Ryan, tell us exactly what these allegations are here. What they based them on.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're still digging down into parts of this because the lawsuit just came out, Jim.

But I can tell you, for some of our viewers, part of this are going to be hard to hear.

The Rankin County Sheriff's Office in Mississippi has fired multiple deputies after -- and no one will say how many deputies -- after these two black men filed this lawsuit. They say they were tortured for nearly two hours. But get some of these details. After filing the $400 million lawsuit,

they alleged, not only were they handcuffed, kicked and waterboarded inside this home and tasers were used on them several times.

At one point, the men claim that the officers, the deputies pulled out a sex toy and tried to sexually assault the men inside this home. And then one of the deputies pulled a gun and put it into one of the men's mouth, opened fire.

Take a listen to the attorney and one of the victims' mother talk about this case that has this entire community shaken and trying to figure out what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY JENKINS, MOTHER OF MICHAEL JENKINS: His tone was severed. It was holding on by a sliver when the bullet went through.

MALIK SHABAZZ, ATTORNEY: Calling them (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Constantly referred to these men as monkeys. When they came in, they accused these young men of dating white women and selling drugs.

I've never seen anything like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: So Jim to put all this together, you have the attorney who's saying some of the things that you heard there that sound quite shocking.

You have the mother one of the victims talking about her own child's tongue barely hanging on inside his mouth after being shot. The pictures are horrific.

And this community has been asking questions. This happened back in January so a lot of questions -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: So the sheriff's deputies, they've been fired presumably for cause. Does that indicate that the sheriff's department has evidence of the wrongdoing here? What has their response been to all of this?

YOUNG: That's a great question. Jim, you and I have been here before and talked about cases where people have been accused of things. What we've learned so far, it appears some of these deputies were allowed to retire, some were fired.

But yesterday, when the sheriff stepped to the mic, he did not take any questions from the media so we can't even find out how many deputies have been disciplined.

We also talked about bringing in another officer to sort of help out and look over the entire department. And he said he would not step down.

And we should put up part of the statement that I want you guys to see here. In the statement, the sheriff says he "will continue to investigate,

efforts are complete and justice is served. We cannot however confirm or deny any specific facts related to this incident because it's an active, ongoing investigation".

You see this all sort of playing out there, Jim, where he's not really answering the question.

Look, we understand an investigation is going on but we watched some of these things happen across the country. When you fire deputies or ask some to retire, there could be more information given to the community.

There have been community members in this area that have been asking for months to try to figure out what happened because the public trust has been broken and they want to know exactly what's going on and who's policing the deputies.

SCIUTTO: They'll want updates on these investigations as they continue.

Ryan Young, thanks so much. Horrible details there. Thanks for bringing us the story.

Boris?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Now to some of the other headlines we're watching this hour.

A former NFL quarterback drowning off a Florida beach. Destin authorities say the former New England Patriot Ryan Mallett went under water and was not breathing when lifeguards pulled him out.

This comes as the National Weather Service says, in the past two weeks alone, rip currents have claimed 11 lives along the gulf coast, most of them in Florida.

Officials there are urging tourists to heed beach hazard warnings with red flags signaling dangerous conditions.

Experts say if you are caught in a rip tide, do not try to swim against the current to get to shore. Instead, swim parallel of the shore.

[14:55:06]

Meantime, a flight delay turning into a VIP experience for this North Carolina man. After riding out an 18-hour delay, Phil Stringer ended up with an entire plane all to himself. He says everyone else either gave up or booked another flight.

Despite the private plane, he says there was a problem with his luggage. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PHIL STRINGER, FLIGHT PASSENGER: My bag actually did get misplaced for about 45 minutes in Charlotte. And I was like, are you kidding me? We lost the one bag we had? They didn't have it.

Honestly, it was just turning a bad situation into a good one. And we joke, we laugh, we cut up, we talked. I exchanged phone numbers with them. We're literally still texting today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: There was one bag on the plane. How did it get lost?

The new travel dream, Brianna, is a personal plane and a luggage track.

KEILAR: You had one bag, come on.

Still ahead, new details on what the Wagner Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin could have been really plotting in Russia before he told his forces to march on Moscow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)