Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

WSJ: Prigozhin Planned To Capture Russian Military Leaders; President Promotes His "Bidenomics" Policies; 80M Plus Americans Under Air Quality Alerts Today; Widespread Airport Chaos Ahead Of July 4th Holiday. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 28, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:38]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Stunning revelations in the revolt on Russia. A new report says the Wagner Group leaders intended to capture top Kremlin officials. And now there are questions about whether Vladimir Putin's generals knew there was a mutiny coming.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: President Biden lays out his so-called Bidenomics plan and tries to convince voters that his policies are moving the economy in the right direction. But with inflation and interest rates still elevated, will voters buy what the President is selling?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: While the delays and cancellations keep adding up as do frustrations among air travelers across the country. Ahead, what you need to know before the July 4th holiday.

We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We have new reporting today on that short-lived Russian revolt, and Yevgeny Prigozhin's plan being much more elaborate than previously known. Western officials telling the Wall Street Journal the Wagner leader planned to capture two of Putin's top ranking military leaders, the Defense Minister and the chief of Russia's general staff. As these new details are coming to light President Biden was asked if the recent events have weakened Vladimir Putin. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He has become a bit of a fly around the world. And it's not just NATO, it's not just the European Union, it's Japan. It's (inaudible) ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Vladimir Putin is weaker today than he was before all those events?

BIDEN: I know he will.

(CROSSTALK) (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN Chief International Security Correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is live for us in Kyiv. Nick, let's begin with Prigozhin's plan. Do we have confirmation that officials at the Kremlin were tipped off that something was coming?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not quite as acute as that. A European intelligence official I've spoken to says that they're aware of hints that there may have been prior knowledge amongst the Russian security or military establishment that perhaps people knew, perhaps they kept it to themselves, didn't pass it on, wondering if it would indeed succeed and there may be some people who are looking for the dent in Putin's prestige that this essentially generated.

But it is still early. That official said there's still a lot of fog around these matters. And Wall Street Journal's reporting talks about part of this plan being to capture the Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and the Ukrainian Chief of Staff, Valery Gerasimov, as part of an opening phase of this plan.

And indeed, we've also heard from the National Guard head, Viktor Zolotov, saying that there were leaks from the Prigozhin camp ahead of this mutiny. All of this adds to the possibility that because we know Sergei Shoigu was in the southern city of Rostov, that Prigozhin advanced upon, they may have hoped to try and capture him.

We know according to Prigozhin that Shoigu fled that city, he says, as a coward "on the late parts of Friday." So these things beginning to fit together, perhaps, but no evidence in the Wall Street Journal reports or that I've heard of this specific plot to capture. But frankly, if they're going to take down the Putin administration, detaining some key officials as sort of byproduct, Boris?

SANCHEZ: And Nick, there's also now intense scrutiny on another key official at the Kremlin. The New York Times reporting that Sergey Surovikin had advanced knowledge of last weekend's mutiny. What does it say about support for Prigozhin and his attempted coup in the Kremlin?

WALSH: It's important with all these reports, just to remind everybody that look, we're into a golden moment here, frankly, for Western intelligence to try and, A, find out what happened and who's turned on who, but also not be that worried about that and just put out a whole load of stories potentially which could set ally or enemy against each other inside the Kremlin.

So the New York Times is clear that Sergey Surovikin who ran the Ukraine war earlier on this year and was replaced, who, yes, is known to be close to Prigozhin had foreknowledge.

[15:05:00]

That doesn't necessarily tally with his appearance on Friday on television, telling people to stay down, stand down to not join the Prigozhin revolt. And we know that the Air Force, which he commands, were involved in trying to stop Wagner's advance on Moscow.

So some sort of things to try and work out there, certainly. But Surovikin I don't think has been seen in public since the deal was struck with Prigozhin to send him to Belarus. And so this is all part of what I'm sure Ukrainian officials here are delighting in beginning to see and that's - Kremlin officials, military establishment members, questioning each other, turning on each other, wondering whose loyalty they can now count upon and possibly trying to exploit this chaos for their own personal, political or even financial advantage.

Remember, this is a pretty kleptocratic government, so people will be trying to get what they can out as they begin to see the facade of Putin's total control crumbling. Boris?

SANCHEZ: It's such a fascinating point, especially as accusations mount about Prigozhin's own profiteering in this war. Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, thank you so much. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes, slightly kleptocratic, I like that description of the system there.

All right. So what's going on here? Let's talk to someone who knows, the former CIA chief of Russia operations, Steve Hall. Steve, good to have you on today.

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good to be here, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So throughout this war, U.S. Intelligence has been very forward-leaning in terms of what it shares publicly. It did so to expose Russian invasion plans, part of the invasion, it's done so to defuse Russian attempted false flag operations and now you have this. I wonder, do you see a deliberate effort here by U.S. Intelligence to sow discord inside the Kremlin?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: No. I can be that direct about it because, of course, it's probably within the realm of the certain to say that it would certainly benefit the United States and NATO, if there was more instability, more insecurity inside of Russia. But right now, the U.S. Intelligence community is focused on collection.

Certainly, we're prohibited by law and you simply cannot impact the U.S. audience on that. So that's not to say that the Ukrainians or that others couldn't try to spin the situation to increase the problems that are in Moscow. But if this reporting is accurate, I think we're going to see more reporting coming out, outlining what actually happened over the coming weeks.

It does sort of validate what I had thought previously, which is that Prigozhin didn't just wake up in the morning and say, I'm going to head to Moscow and head north on the M4. He must have at least had, one would imagine, tried to obtain a wink and a nod from key people inside the Kremlin to say, look, at least we'll look the other way.

The Belarus angle on this is also fascinating and now begins perhaps to take on a different dimension as to why he went there. So interesting stuff going on. It's going to continue to come out I think, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Set aside the Belarus question just for a moment if we can, describe your sense of what this means for Putin's leadership right now, because it almost doesn't matter who actually was involved to some degree if Putin thinks they were involved or wants to demonstrate he's now in control? Are you looking at the groundwork being laid for a purge here, one, to eliminate potential enemies, but two, show he's still the boss.

HALL: Yes, a lot of layers to this, Jim. So let me try to provide some context.

So first, yes, I think Putin is probably going to have to do some things to shore up at least the perception of weakness, I would argue it's more than a perception. I think Putin is now weaker than he's been at any time in his career there, if you can it that. But yes, he may indeed push back and try to identify who was doing what, during that coup attempt.

The FSB, the Internal Security Service which has primary responsibility has a very busy couple of weeks and months ahead as they begin to sort this out. But also keep in mind that in the western context - so we don't think of each other as usually trying to manipulate and try to find out whose side people are on.

In Russia, that is - that's almost at the genetic level that happens. So yes, there's going to be a lot of testing and a lot of trying to figure out who's supporting who. But in the Russian context, that's not quite as big of a deal.

But there is no doubt, Jim, as you alluded to earlier that Putin is in a weakened state.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You mentioned the Belarus angle here, because they've been doubt earlier in the week as to whether he was there. Now, there's some satellite images, possibility of his jet, that is Prigozhin's jet being on the ground. Tell us why you think the Belarus piece is important before we go?

HALL: So, this is a fascinating thing because I think myself - certainly myself and probably some other Russia watchers as well, had long looked at Lukashenko as essentially nothing more than sort of a governor as part of Russia, effectively. I mean, it's not really a sovereign state, given the power that Russia exerts over Belarus.

But if you start asking who benefits from what, so you ask why did Prigozhin go to Belarus? What would Alexander Lukashenko have gotten out of that?

[15:10:02]

It's clear Putin wants to clear him out and get him away as soon as possible, but why not just kill him because Putin usually does that? If this theory is true, it's fascinating, because everybody wins. Putin gets him out of the country, Prigozhin gets to live and Lukashenko gets a guy who knows how to run Wagner. And if the Wagner guys end up in Belarus, then that's leverage against

Moscow for Lukashenko in the future, because remember the Russian army is really busy in Ukraine these days. So it's possible Lukashenko could have said, hey, I'll take that because it gives me future leverage against Putin. It's really interesting stuff, Jim.

SCIUTTO: That's some Game of Thrones level stuff. Remarkable.

Steve Hall, I know you're going to keep watching closely. We are as well. Thanks so much for joining. Brianna.

KEILAR: President Biden betting on the economy for his re-election bid. The president delivering a fiery speech this afternoon in Chicago, making the economy a centerpiece of his 2024 campaign. This so-called Bidenomics strategy stresses the need for policies that benefit the middle class as well as blue-collar workers.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Chicago for us.

Jeremy, the President is leaning into this more aggressively with his messaging now.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He certainly is, Brianna. And that's because this is the central political challenge that President Biden faces heading into re-election.

Despite the fact that the President's advisors believe that the economy is heading in the right direction, the inflation is significantly cooling. The jobs market is keeping a pace and they feel increasingly confident that we're headed for a soft landing rather than a recession.

Americans in poll after poll simply don't seem to feel it. Instead, they are saying that they believe the economy is in bad shape and they blame the President. And so today you heard the President make perhaps his most forceful pitch yet on the economy, talking up how he believes his policies have benefited the country since the COVID pandemic, taking credit for that economic progress.

And also putting it in contrast to trickle-down economic policies, from start to finish, we heard that Bidenomics was just as much in contrast to trickle-down economic policies as it is about what Bidenomics actually is. Here's the President just earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Bidenomics is about the future. Bidenomics is another way of saying restore the American dream because it worked before. It's rooted in what we've always worked best at in this country, investing in America, investing in Americans. Because when we invest in our people, we strengthen the middle class.

Forty years of trickle-down, limited that dream, for those - except for those at the top too many for too long.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DIAMOND: And Brianna, the President also made very clear that he is

not declaring victory yet as it relates to the economy. He touted the significant progress, but he said there's more work to be done.

And he also made clear as he continues to invest, to implement, rather, these pieces of legislation that he got over the first two years in office, he believes as Americans see those benefits, they will begin to also see what he described as a strong economy. Brianna?

KEILAR: Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much. Let's bring in Jeff Zeleny and Kristen Holmes to talk more about this. I think we heard, Jeff, the president, kind of emphasizing in his speech today, inflation is half of what it was a year ago, but actually most Americans, they're not sharing in the optimism that I'm sure that he and his political team would like for them to. There's a CNN poll showing three out of four Americans believe economic conditions are poor. The same poll shows Americans blame the president two-thirds disapproving of his handling of the economy. Is this going to be tough for him really focusing on the economy here in his message.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORREPONDENT: Look, it's something of an optimistic gamble, I think. They believe that the polls are a snapshot in time and people have moved on a bit beyond that, because of lower gas prices, lower grocery prices in some respects. But there is still the specter of inflation hanging over the economy, which also hangs over his reelection bid, without a doubt.

So it's a bit of a gamble, as I say, but he's going to own the economy, when you talk to his advisors either way. So they're trying to brand it to kind of remind people of everything that he's done. There was no new policy here today at all. They're just trying to remind people of the infrastructure law, the broadband that comes with that, the bridges, other things you'll see.

So it's just one more attempt to really brand what they have been doing. But sure, it's a bit of a gamble, but an advisor explained it to me as an optimistic one.

KEILAR: I think on the economy, it's sort of, we're out of this maybe acute zone, but it sort of feels a little bit like chronic economic pain for a lot of Americans. I wonder, Kristen, when you're out on the campaign trail, what you're hearing from voters on this topic?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly seems that I hear mostly from that three-fourths of people who don't feel any kind of economic relief. They tell me that the economy is a huge issue for them.

And I cover mostly Republicans and mostly Donald Trump. And what I'm constantly interested in is the fact that so many voters have a very short memory, except for when it comes to the economy.

[15:15:04]

And they remember that they felt like they were more comfortable under Donald Trump, under a Republican president and they talk about that. And I think that when you talk about this being an optimistic gamble, the real endgame here is what's going to happen in November of 2024? What's going to happen in the summer leading up to that?

You can remind people of the policies you've put in place time and time again. But if people aren't actually feeling that with their wallets, they're not going to vote that way. Because that's just rhetoric and that's what these voters are used to. They're used to hearing these promises, hearing these stump speeches.

But then you're going to want to actually feel that they can go on that vacation, the summer before the election in 2024. It's just unclear what that's going to look like right now.

KEILAR: And maybe they aren't feeling it in their wallets. They may also not be feeling it psychologically. I think we see that a lot, Jeff, when it comes to people on both sides of the aisle, that kind of thing.

ZELENY: We definitely do. And look, a president has very little direct control over gas prices, over some prices, and even some parts of the economy, but they are blamed for it. It's unclear if they get to credit for it or not. But what the White House is trying to do is really start this campaign about almost a year ahead of time. Because usually, history will show that how people feel about the economy going into the summer before the general election, that is sort of what their views are.

But I'm actually struck to the minimal degree that I hear voters talking about the economy as much as social issues. That's one of the things that's really driving the Republican campaign. So as the economy continues to slightly improve, inflation sort of stays down. Unemployment is low, the stock market is up.

The Republican campaign is driven by something else. Of course, during a general election campaign, the economy will be front and center. But the White House is trying to make the bet that there will not be a recession next year, still an open question, and that prices will continue to come down.

But as we head into the Fourth of July weekend travel here, a lot cheaper to fill your car up with gas. And that is one of the metrics here. We'll see what it is next year.

HOLMES: Yes. And I do want to note one thing that you mentioned, talking about these social issues and the economy. It does have a very different feel already than it had during the midterms in 2022. I mean, we are just out of them and that was very economy-centric.

People were really feeling the pain, especially leading up to the midterms. I don't get the same sense that the economy is as front and center as it was then. As you said, there's a lot of focus on these social issues. But I do think it really is, as you said, it's unknown right now how this is going to play in 2024 in that presidential election, until going into that actual election.

KEILAR: Yes, Lots of bets going to be made on that. Kristen, Jeff, thank you to both of you.

ZELENY: You bet.

KEILAR: Boris?

SANCHEZ: It is nasty out there as we take a look at live pictures from a hazy Chicago, more than 80 million Americans under air quality alerts as smoke from wildfires in Canada continues to spread south. We're going to show you where the worst hotspots are.

Plus, travelers stuck in airports across the country after thousands of delays and cancellations and the Fourth of July holiday isn't even here yet.

Also, Georgia's Secretary of State and Rudy Giuliani taking center stage, both of them speaking to federal investigators looking into Donald Trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election.

CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns in moments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:19]

SANCHEZ: More than 80 million Americans are under increased air quality threats today because of wildfires that continue to burn in Canada. Now, Detroit is under the highest level of alert, hazardous. That's when officials say that you should stay indoors at all cost.

We also have live pictures for you from Chicago, where you can barely make out the skyline. And this is the scene today in St. Paul, Minnesota. It is shrouded in gray.

CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers joins us now live.

Chad, how long are you expecting this wave of smoke to spread across the Midwest?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Certainly it doesn't get better today and likely not better tomorrow. I mean, you can see that there's not a cloud in the sky between Chicago and Cleveland, but you can't see the ground because this is the smoke that the satellite is seeing right now.

Cleveland, Ohio, this is what it looked like two days ago, looking across downtown. Now, I take you to what it looks like live. And I know it's live because I've seen birds fly through the picture, but that's because they're less than a mile and a quarter away because that is the visibility right now in Cleveland.

I'm looking at these purple air numbers, IQ air numbers, you can go look at them online. One of the worst places I could find in the country right now is Granger Township in - around Cleveland, Cuyahoga Falls, 328 parts per million is your number right now. That is certainly hazardous for you to be breathing out there. And I had one of those little meters last time we did this. And the

meter here in Atlanta was only 80. The number was 80 parts per million outside, but it was six on the inside. So a 12 fold better air quality on the inside than on the outside. That's why they say stay inside if you absolutely can.

All these areas here that are in kind of this orange, maroon, purple and red, that's the air quality index that we're seeing right now. This is what it looks like from one of the computer models, where is the smoke, where is it worse? Well, Champaign-Urbana, you're having no picnic this afternoon at all. You're above 300 right now.

I'm going to move this ahead until tomorrow. You'll notice some of the orange begins to go away, but we're still left with all of the yellow here. It begins to mix around again and we see some thunderstorms in the mix on the west side. Those thunderstorms will absorb some of those smoke particles and rain them out, that's helpful.

And then by Sunday, it actually gets a whole lot better. But it's not going to take much to be a whole lot better than that. It is ugly out there from Detroit to Chicago down to St. Louis and Champaign-Urbana all the way to Pittsburgh and even into West Virginia. Some of it does slide to the northeast for tomorrow. We'll keep watching that, Boris.

SANCHEZ: And it is getting worse, Chad. Just as you were speaking, we got an update on the numbers.

[15:25:02]

It went from being 80 million Americans affected by this now to more than 120 million. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

Chad Myers thank you so much for that. Jim?

MYERS: When you add in those big cities, that's what happens to those numbers, Boris. Yes.

SANCHEZ: Good point. Thanks, Chad. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Well, air travel troubles plaguing some of the nation's busiest airports and they're not close to over. Heavy storms moving across the country, particularly in the Northeast. They have caused major problems on airlines, forcing thousands of flight cancellations and delays. Scores of passengers at New Jersey's Newark International Airport, they got stuck overnight, had to sleep on cots, lined up along terminal corridors. That doesn't look like a lot of fun.

The situation no better in New York and Boston where severe weather forced a total ground stop.

CNN National Correspondent, Jason Carroll. He's watching the situation from New York's LaGuardia Airport. We had a satellite picture or flight-aware picture up last hour that showed all the jets parked on the taxiways of LaGuardia.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. SCIUTTO: Are they still stuck there? Any movement?

CARROLL: I mean, you know, pick an airport, Jim. You're going to find in the tri-state area and issue weather at LaGuardia or JFK, you're going to find some problems here at the arrivals and departures board, sort of a mixed bag.

We've seen a number of flights actually taking off, but cancellations as well. Here's some updated numbers for you at LaGuardia, 164 cancellations; Newark, 165; JFK at 97. Those numbers are up slightly from what we saw when we were out here this morning. And with numbers like that, you - as you can imagine, no shortage of people who are still, even at this hour, still trying to figure out what their next move is going to be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we had to sleep on the benches because our flight got changed like four times. At one point it was even canceled and it got changed to like 4:30.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was supposed to fly out Sunday evening and that was the first canceled. And then I was told I'd be on a flight Monday, that was canceled. And then I was on the phone for over two hours for a number of days. told I was put on a flight today and then just, I don't know, they never found my ticket voucher for it, I don't - so ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are supposed to go to a family reunion today in Denver and we arrived to the airport and about an hour before our flight, we just saw on our boarding passes that our flight was canceled. So we didn't even get notified in any way and then there's basically no flights for days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg has weighed in on all of what's been going on and says that actually things are better this year. The system reacting better this year than it did last year. I put that to some of the passengers who are still out here and still stranded and they're just not feeling it.

what they are feeling is higher prices this year versus last year. Less services, it seems like, this year versus last year. So in terms of the system here, a lot of folks feeling it simply is not working as it should. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yeah, a lot of finger pointing going from airlines to unions to the FAA for blame.

Jason Carroll at LaGuardia, thanks so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: Jim, we're seeing some new photos of the Titan submersible debris as it was returned to land. You can even recognize the profile of the craft from what they are pulling in. Ahead, we'll have more have more on what is next in the investigation. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)