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Supreme Court to Rule on Key Cases; Reasserting Putting's Authority; Questions over Russian General's Whereabouts; Presumed Remains Discovered in Titan. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 29, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:36]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Vladimir Putin and his show of force trying to show the world and the Russian people he's still in charge and making moves that could reshape the war in Ukraine.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It is shaping up to be a huge day at the Supreme Court. Rulings expected as soon as today on affirmative action, student loans and gay rights. We are standing by for the breaking news.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Be prepared for a change of plans. Already today more than a thousand flights across the country have been canceled or delayed, adding to the pile of disruptions that have plagued passengers in the last week. It could be holiday hell as the busiest time of the July 4th holiday begins today at airports.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: We are set for a potentially huge morning at the Supreme Court. We expect decisions to be handed down on major cases that could have a transformative impact on more than one aspect of American life. The cases we're waiting on include challenges to affirmative action, gay rights, and the president's student loan forgiveness plan.

Let's get right over to CNN's Jessica Schneider, who's going to be bringing us these decisions when they come in.

Jessica, walk us through what we could see in the next hour.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, we are headed into definitely the final stretch. Opinions today, potentially tomorrow, with just a handful of cases left.

But really there are two big ones that really do affect millions of Americans. So, the Supreme Court will decide in the coming days, potentially even today, whether colleges and universities can continue with affirmative action in their admissions policies. Whether they can continue to use race as one factor in admission decisions.

This is -- affirmative action has been allowed in this country for more than 40 years, but it is quite possible that the conservative court here will strike down affirmative action and not let colleges and universities consider race in the future.

So, colleges and universities are bracing for this. We'll see how the court comes down, but it really could be a major shakeup of 40 years of precedent.

Also we're waiting for a decision on a case involving the Biden administration's student loan debt forgiveness program. This is something that the Biden administration had tried to put into effect in the wake of Covid, essentially cancelling up to $20,000 in student debt for 40 million Americans.

Lower courts put the block on this program. And now it's up to the Supreme Court to see whether the Biden administration can put this program into effect. So really 40 million Americans, student loan borrowers, waiting on the edge of their seats to see if their student loans could be canceled. Right now, 40 million people are eligible before this program was blocked, 26 million had already applied for this, 16 million had been approved. So, there is a lot riding on this decision.

What we saw at oral arguments were the conservative justices really skeptical about whether the Biden administration had the power to cancel all of these students debts that would essentially amount to $400 billion.

So, those are the big cases that we're waiting for. Also waiting for a case on whether a wedding website designer in Colorado can be forced, in her words, to make wedding websites for same sex couples. And then a case involving a postal worker who says his civil rights were violated when he was made to work on Sundays against his religious beliefs.

So, Kate, we are getting ready. The opinion -- the court starts releasing opinions at 10:00 a.m. This will not be the final day. We are expecting potentially opinions as well tomorrow. So, we'll see what comes out today. This court likes to keep us at the edge of our seats right to the very last minute.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. But we will be right here with you, bringing us those decisions, when they come down.

Jessica, thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, reports of a military purge inside Russia and an arrest as questions now swirl about whether Vladimir Putin has imprisoned the man who was once one of his top journals. A well-known Russian journalist says that General Sergei Surovkin has not had contact with his family for three days. "The Moscow Times" reports he is in custody. Now, CNN has not been able to confirm that.

All of this is happening after a "New York Times" report that General Surovkin knew about the rebellion plot before it happened.

[09:05:00]

Also missing from public view still, Yevgeny Prigozhin, the man who led the revolt. Officials have said he is in Belarus, but we still haven't seen him there yet.

Russian military bloggers signal that Putin is now forcing a serious reshuffle. One says a purge is already underway.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, live in Kyiv with the very latest.

What Putin is doing, Nick, is of keen interest, not just in Russia, but also in Ukraine.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And it is this sort of chaos which I'm sure Ukrainian officials here were hoping would potentially unfurl in the wake of that startling rebellion at the weekend.

Sergei Surovkin, so important because he was indeed running the war in Ukraine this winter, removed from that post because of satisfaction about - dissatisfaction about how badly it was going. But was also one of the few top brass that Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Wagner chief who led the rebellion, spoke kindly of.

Now, we haven't seen him in public since a Friday video he released basically telling the Wagner rebels to stop and stand down. He looked pretty harried, it's fair to say, in that video. Obviously perhaps because of the circumstances or perhaps as some have suggested because he wasn't comfortable with the message he was giving.

"The New York Times" report suggesting he had prime knowledge. Well, I've heard from a European intelligence official suggesting that some in the security or military establishment might have known a little bit about this beforehand. That's still unclear.

It's also unclear where Surovkin is. Yes, there are reports suggesting he's not been seen. There are other reports suggesting he's been arrested or detained. And there are others, indeed a former MP suggesting, in fact, he's OK and at work as per normal. So, I think it's likely we may get an answer to that question by his appearance sometime soon.

But quite where he's been over the past three and a half days, well, that's certainly going to leave an air of suspicion over him. And that's, frankly, I think, exactly what western intelligence and Ukrainians want. They want this blame game. They want this suspicion to continue percolating amongst Putin's top brass and indeed the entire Moscow elite. That's going to be fundamentally very damaging. It's going to limit their trust, their ability to make good decisions and essentially sprawl on for weeks. That will significantly impact their already bad performance in the war in Ukraine.

And as you mentioned too, there, John, still an outstanding question as to where is Yevgeny Prigozhin. He's been said to be in Belarus, but he's not confirmed that himself. And he's not a man who's shy of putting messages out on his Telegram channel. So that's fundamentally too a question that needs to be answered until I think Putin, who today appeared at a -- a forum talking about new technologies and drew a bizarre picture on a white board there, trying, it seemed, to act like life is per normal. But until we really get these questions resolved, and this sort of purge-type atmosphere being debated in Moscow's elite, his grip on power still looks phenomenally weak, John.

BERMAN: Look, these are questions that would be easy to clear up if someone wanted to. The question is, why haven't they yet.

Nick Paton Walsh, keep us posted throughout the morning. Thank you.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And the fallout from the attempted military uprising is being closely tracked by leaders and intelligence services around the world, but how is it playing at home?

CNN's Matthew Chance went to Red Square in Moscow to find out. He joins us now.

Matthew, what do you -- what did you hear?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, look, people are very relieved that this has come to an end. People weren't happy about the idea there was going to be bloodshed in the country, more bloodshed, in fact. But they're also very concerned as well about what the coming weeks, the coming months will bring as Vladimir Putin tries to re-establish his authority after it took a severe dent - a denting following that military takeover attempt, whatever it was at the weekend.

Look, I went down to Red Square, you know, to try and sort of gauge what people's general views are on the street. Take a listen to what they had to say.

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CHANCE: All right, well, I've come to the center of the Russian capital to try and get a sense of how this city feels in the aftermath of that attempted military uprising over the weekend.

I'll tell you, it feels pretty relaxed here. You can see, there's a lot of Russians, a lot of tourists that are here taking photographs of these iconic sites.

I was trying to get into Red Square, actually, which is - is just here. But you can see, there are barricades up and, in fact, those barricades have been up since the weekend when that military uprising took place. You can just make out the domes of St. Basils (ph) over there.

Anyway, back to the people.

I thought it would be a great opportunity to have a word with some Russians about how secure they feel right now in the aftermath of that uprising.

CHANCE (voice over): People like 86-year-old Nikolai (ph), unfazed, he told me, by events of recent days.

[09:10:03]

Russia is its people, he says, not some individual showoffs. And regardless of what they do, Russia was, is, and will continue to be strong, he says.

But will its leader, Vladimir Putin, sealed off behind these Kremlin gates?

CHANCE (on camera): (Speaking in foreign language).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in foreign language).

You don't know an answer.

Not many people want to speak to me about Putin.

CHANCE (voice over): But those who would reject the suggestion recently made by President Biden that Putin has been weakened by the revolt in Russia.

I think he'll be around for a long time, says Ilia (ph). All the country's resources are in his hands and there's no real opposition and there won't be any time soon, he says.

But now he's in exile, the Wagner leader, who staged and aborted the rebellion, appears to be fair game.

CHANCE (on camera): You speak English, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

CHANCE: Great. Let me ask you, what do you think about Yevgeny Prigozhin?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yevgeny Prigozhin. No we like him.

CHANCE: You do like or you don't?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no.

CHANCE: You don't like?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we don't like him.

CHANCE: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. But he is not good.

CHANCE: Well, it's pretty understandable, I suppose, that, you know, given what's happened over the past few days, people don't a really want to talk to us, you know, that much on camera because despite what most of them will say to us about everything being fine here, I think there genuinely is a sense of apprehension about what the coming weeks and months in this country may hold.

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CHANCE: All right. And, Kate, you've been seeing what Vladimir Putin may do, may already be unfolding. You know, there's already this talk of, you know, some sort of like purge perhaps or people being investigated for the role they may have played in this attempted military uprising. But it's all taking place behind closed doors. It's not in public, so it's very difficult to confirm anything at this moment.

BOLDUAN: Yes, but it's great - it's great to hear -- to see you down there and speaking to people about what they think and feel and hear in this moment.

It's good to see you, Matthew. Thank you.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, sometimes what they don't say is just as important as what they will say.

We now know that Russian state media is reporting that before Wagner mercenaries attempted to stage the military insurrection, their boss, Yevgeny Prigozhin, had been informed that his private military company would no longer be able to participate in Russia's special military option in Ukraine because, and this is the most important thing, Prigozhin refused to follow an order from Russia's defense ministry that said, all mercenary groups fighting in Ukraine had to sign contracts with the department.

To discuss all the angles on this, CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Good morning to you.

I want to start with all the presidents men, if you will. We have the situation that we are hearing about, reporting that one of his generals has not been seen for days. There is another report that he has been arrested. What does this tell you about what is happening in Putin's inner circle?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, good morning, Sara.

The main thing that it tells us is that they're in upheaval. The whole inner circle, especially on the military side is, in essence, being called into question. It's pretty clear that Surovkin, the general that's supposedly, possibly in custody, that he probably knew something about this rebellion. His relationship with Prigozhin, it was pretty strong given the dichotomy between the military and the Wagner group. And both of them, both Prigozhin and Surovkin, were very effective commanders in Ukraine, comparatively speaking, with the other Russian commanders that were -- have been involved in the Ukrainian war.

So, they had a close relationship in that sense. Or at least as close as one can get in those situations. And now to have this occur and Prigozhin, obviously, being put into exile, Surovkin being questioned about his loyalties, that, you know, kind of smacks o a Stalinist way of doing things. And that this way of looking at this, from an investigative standpoint, is something that's going to be occupying the Russian security services for some time.

SIDNER: To that end, Prigozhin has not been seen publicly. Although Belarus' president says he is there in Belarus. But no one has seen him in the public. How much is this going to distract, the fact that you still have Prigozhin around, the fact that you have 25,000 fighters who stayed with him when given the chance to go over to be as a part of the Russian military.

[09:15:10]

And you have this infighting that's going on inside of Russia. How distracting is this for them as this war in Ukraine continues to grind?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it's going to be very distracting. And especially when it comes to the leadership. And the one thing we have to keep in mind, Sara, is that the Russian military structure is a top-down military structure. Everything rests on the shoulders of the commander, and then it cascades down to the lower ranks. There's very little initiative on the shoulders that are on the front lines because they're basically told what to do and they follow those orders. They're used to doing that.

So, if they put their loyalty into the hands of a particular person, such as a Prigozhin, or a Surovkin, they are going to be loyal to that individual. And it's going to take a while to change their loyalties. It's also going to take a while for the Russian military to integrate the Wagner forces, those 25,000 that you spoke of, into the mainstream military.

And it won't be something that's going to be seamless. It's going to be very difficult for them to do it. And those people are going to want to assert control once they get into the Russian military. They could eventually actually be a poison pill for that military, and that could really impede the effectiveness of the Russian military operations in Ukraine at this point.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you a little bit about what, you know, sort of western allies are thinking here and their intelligence agencies. When is Putin more dangerous? Is he more dangerous and -- when he's a paranoid leader but he has a good grip on power, or in he more dangerous when he is in this situation as a paranoid person who actually has a reason to be paranoid, who seems to be losing a bit of his power?

LEIGHTON: I think he's more dangerous in the situation as a paranoid individual who may very well be losing power. Now, he's going to do everything that he can to reassert that power. And his appearance in Dagestan, which is right on the Caspian Sea, that is something that's very interesting because he is not only reasserting control, or trying to, but he's using this visual of popular support to make a point. He's saying, I have support of the people. You think Prigozhin had support in Rostov when he took over that town. Look at me, I've got support over here with actually a minority group within the Russian Federation. And so he's using that as a signaling mechanism to assert authority.

However, Putin is a very, very paranoid man. And his actions during Covid, his actions really throughout his time in power, especially in the last few years, indicate that he really wants to not only maintain control, but he wants to keep the people under him fighting each other. And that is something that we're searing right now. But when they go too far, like Prigozhin did, then they have to be reined in. And those who supported Prigozhin, or even, you know, had some kind of empathy towards Prigozhin, they're going to be paying a price, at least temporarily, depending on how far they were involved in this.

SIDNER: Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you for all of that. You talked about the poison pill. You talked about the paranoia and how it could go south for the rest of the world. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: The Supreme Court set to release a crucial round of opinions in just a few minutes. This could have major implications. Affirmative action, gay rights, student loans. This will impact millions. We are standing by for the breaking news on those decisions.

And then crews working to recover debris off the ocean floor, they may have found human remains within the Titan sub.

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[09:23:00]

BERMAN: This morning, the Coast Guard has discovered what they believe to be human remains in the wreckage of the Titan sub in the north Atlantic Ocean. The presumed remains were among debris and evidence recovered from the sea floor and will now be sent to a lab for testing.

CNN's Paula Newton is with us now.

So, Paula, where does that leave the investigation this morning?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, the last 24 hours have been so significant. And, of course, we don't want to lose sight of the fact that five people lost their lives. And when we talk about the U.S. Coast Guard saying these presumed human remains, they, of course, will try and deal with it with the utmost sensitivity. And it may bring a measure of both comfort and relief, but, obviously, great pain to the families.

I want to go over some of the new information we have, though, because, as I say, it is significant.

First, from the U.S. Coast Guard bringing up significant pieces of debris. You could actually reference those pieces of debris with the Titan submersible and what it looked like.

I want to read a statement now from them, from the captain, Jason Neubauer, who is with the U.S. Coast Guard, saying, I am grateful for the coordinated international and interagency support to recover and preserve this vital evidence at extreme offshore distances and depths. Now, there is a substantial amount of work to be done to understand the factors that led to the catastrophic loss of the Titan and help insure a similar tragedy does not occur again.

And, John, that is the focus of these investigations right now, to make sure this doesn't happen again.

On the heels of that, we also got a statement from the Transportation Safety Board, and remember that is the Canadian agency here, that really their focus is the Polar Prince because it left from St. John's Harbor and it was the mothership attached to the Titan. And they say, TSB investigators have now finished collecting relevant documents and completed the preliminary interviews with those on board that support vessel, the Polar Prince. The investigation team has taken possession of the vessel's voyage data recorder - so significant here, John - which has been sent to the TSB Engineering Laboratory here in Ottawa, of course, for further analysis.

At issue as well, which family members will want to know, that voice recorder will be so important to determine what happened in those moments with their loved ones and if they knew what was going on.

[09:25:07]

Also, though, of course, those large pieces of debris, which will now hopefully jump start the investigation. John, this will last several months, if not years, though.

BERMAN: No, as you say, five lives lost there. Perhaps some closure for these families.

Thanks so much for being with us this morning, Paula. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And still ahead for us, Russia's Vladimir Putin trying to show the world his grip on power remains. And reports that a purge among his military ranks could now be underway. The view from a leading member of Congress coming up.

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[09:30:08]

SIDNER: As we await significant decisions