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Kremlin: "No Comment On The Whereabouts Of Top General Who Is Apparently Missing After Rebellion; Questions Swirl About Fate Of Wagner Boss; Justices Gut Affirmative Action In College Admissions; "Presumed Human Remains" Found In "Titan" Sub Wreckage; Sources: Special Counsel's Office Still Investigating Trump's Handling Of Docs. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired June 29, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:33:54]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Palace intrigue at the Kremlin. One of Russia's top general apparently missing. Here's where the plot thickens. Just yesterday, "The New York Times" reported that General Sergey Surovikin knew that Wagner mercenaries were plotting last week's insurrection.

The independent "Moscow Times" reports that he is in custody, though CNN is still working to verify that. The Kremlin is referring our question to the Ministry of Defense.

Surovikin is actually among a number of top Russian military commanders who have not been seen in public since the failed mutiny over the weekend.

Also out of the public eye, the man who led the revolt, Yevgeny Prigozhin. The Kremlin says the Wagner chief was exiled to Belarus, but he hasn't been seen there yet.

Russian state media says, before the insurrection, Prigozhin was told his mercenaries could no longer fight in Ukraine.

CNN's Matthew Chance is live for us in Moscow.

Matthew, no sign yet of some central figures.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, Boris, Sergey Surovikin, General Surovikin, "General Armageddon," as he's known because of his ruthless tactics that he developed in Syria against various cities there during Russia's bombing campaign, he's nowhere to be seen.

[13:35:15]

He hasn't been seen since appealing to the Wagner Group on Saturday in a video which gave the impression of more like a hostage video than a heartfelt appeal, for Wagner not proceed with its military uprising. Since then, he's been out of touch. He hasn't been in public.

He was known -- he is known to have been very close to Wagner. He was often the liaison between the Russian military and Wagner forces on the ground.

So, you know, it's kind of part of this whole concern that the Kremlin now has about why it was that Wagner forces were permitted to move so easily into a Russian city, for instance in the south in Rostov-on- Don, without any real military resistance in what is meant to be a military city.

I think that's set off alarm bells within the Kremlin. That's why there's so much concern at the moment that there may be something like a purge, or at least investigations into what connections people have, or happening in the various military circles in Russia.

In terms of Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Wagner chief, you're right, he's meant to be in Belarus. But there's been no sign of him since the Belarusian president a day or so ago said that he was actually there and living in exile -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: We have been tracking planes linked to him and they appeared in Belarus one moment and then they appeared in St. Petersburg and others. No real clarity on his whereabouts.

Matthew Chance, from Moscow, thank you so much for the reporting.

Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The Kremlin telling CNN no comment on the whereabouts of General Surovikin.

So let's continue this conversation now. I'm joined by retired Brigadier General Peter Zwack. He's a former U.S. defense attache to Russia and a Wilson Center global fellow at the Kennan Institute

General, what do you think about where Surovikin could be at this point?

BRIG. GEN. PETER ZWACK, FORMER U.S. SENIOR DEFENSE ATTACHE TO THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION: Surovikin, he has either been arrested or been directed or taken himself out of public sight, which is more unlikely.

I think with the news that's swirls and the distrust and paranoia that, in many ways, harkens back to the military to the Stalin era and a prelude to the great purge, though I'm not saying they're going this way.

But you have -- nobody knows. And the fact that he hasn't come out, other than House statement early on during this chaos, is, yes, very revealing.

And then, of course, this whole network with other generals that we're hearing rumors. And we have got to realize that there is so much distrust, inuendo, informants, disinformation. So we really have to be careful to parse out this information here. But what is for sure, things are really, really awry at the top levels of the Russian military, which translates into the society and, I think, has rocked the Kremlin.

KEILAR: You mentioned that distrust. How big of an opportunity is this for Western allies of Ukraine and Ukraine to exploit that distrust. You hear Western officials raising the possibility and kind of leaning into this, hey, this is a general who could have been attached to these coup plans.

How much of an opportunity is this for them to sow doubts in Vladimir Putin's mind?

ZWACK: I think that's already happening organically inside of Russia. We have to be very careful as to -- because we're also having to-- the target isn't just Putin and the regime, but to be credible to the Russian population.

If we, I think, get over-enthusiastic in trying to involve ourselves in the inner dynamics, that may blow up in our face. I think we support ardently Ukrainians. We make it hard for Russians to do the irregular stuff they're doing worldwide.

But I don't think we get involved in the inside the Kremlin's skullduggery. I think that could backfire on us.

KEILAR: An important warning there.

We haven't seen Yevgeny Prigozhin since he allegedly arrived in Belarus. We know his planes have been moving within Russia. Where do you think the leader of Wagner could be?

[13:39:56]

ZWACK: Well, I don't know. We all thought he was going to Belarus. What is his situation? What is his condition? Is he somehow part of this narrative? Or is he arrested? I have a feeling, if there are arrests coming on, there will be little mercy coming out of the Kremlin. I think that's a big question.

The other big question is, while there's been talk about it, how is Russia going to digest, if you will, the Wagner Group? Are they going to give them those military contracts, the Ministry of Defense? Are they going to free them? Do they reunite in some way? No, I don't think so.

There was talk about them going to Belarus. So there is a swirl all over what's going on.

And one last point that I think is so important that adds to the intrigue, was the fact that Prigozhin on the push up through Rostov and up to Vernonish (ph), this so-called meeting outside of the southern military district. I've been there. This is a big deal.

If he is sitting there having coffees with generals of the southern military district, while his forces are at that time, you know, roaring down a very, very good highway toward Moscow.

If so, then he's in a lot of trouble. Those other generals are in a lot of trouble. And I think we see all kinds of potential factions.

I think most of the Russian senior military will try to put their head down, pledge allegiance and all of that but what's going on in their heads? Huge fissures and cracks, I think, in this seemingly implacable authoritarian state.

KEILAR: Yes, and they are under so much scrutiny as Vladimir Putin worries about those fissures, in fact.

General, thank you so much for being with us.

ZWACK: As always.

KEILAR: Boris?

SANCHEZ: There's still more to come on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, including more reaction to the Supreme Court's decision on affirmative action. These are live pictures right now of protests outside the court.

We'll tell you what lawmakers on Capitol Hill are saying about this historic ruling, too. Stay with us.

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[13:46:52]

SANCHEZ: As we are watching live images outside of the Supreme Court where protests are beginning to grow, today's ruling that guts affirmative action is yet another landmark decision from this conservative-majority court.

We actually just heard from the president-elect of Harvard University that was a defendant in one of these cases. Let's listen.

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CLAUDINE GAY, PRESIDENT-ELECT, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: The Supreme Court's decision on college and university admissions will change how we pursue the educational benefits of diversity.

For nearly nine years, Harvard vigorously defended our admissions process and our belief that we all benefit from learning, living and working alongside people of different backgrounds and experiences.

We will comply with the court's decision, but it does not change our values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Reactions to this ruling, as you might imagine, have been emotional. Just like the Roe reversal last year, today's decision has defended decades of precedent and it has sparked a highly polarized response here in the nation's capital. Let's take you now live to Capitol Hill and CNN's Manu Raju.

Because you've been speaking to lawmakers, Manu. What have they said about this decision?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, their views depends on what side of the aisle they sit on. It's a very party line response to this ruling.

You're hearing Republican after Republican, from the speaker of the House, on down to his rank-and-file praising this decision, hailing it, contending that no longer will people be discriminated against in the college admission process.

On the other side of the aisle, Democrats furious, angry at the Supreme Court's decision. Senator Majority Leader Chuck Schumer contending it will be a major roadblock to the efforts to achieve racial justice in this country. You're hearing that being echoed down the line as well.

Also, you're hearing from Democrats who are African American and Republicans who are African American viewing this issue quite differently.

The Congressional Black Caucus, which is one of the major blocs on the House Democratic side, issued a statement expressing its outrage, saying:

"By delivering a decision on affirmative action so radical as to deny young people seeking an education equal opportunity in our education system, the Supreme Court has thrown into question its own legitimacy."

Now, on the other side of the aisle, Byron Donald, who is one of a handful of African American Republicans, put out a statement saying:

"There was clearly a time when affirmative action was needed to end racial discrimination, but that time is over. The high court rightly ended the policy. Merit and achievement must be the number-one attribute that we all desire."

So you're getting a flavor of just how both sides of the aisle are reacting to this historic decision and the views depend on which side of the aisle they sit on -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Manu Raju, thank you so much for that update from Capitol Hill.

Brianna?

[13:49:42]

KEILAR: Crews working to recover debris of the "Titan" submersible off of the ocean floor in the North Atlantic may have found human remains within the sub. What comes next when CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns.

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KEILAR: Recovery teams pulling debris from the doomed "Titan" submersible say they have found presumed human remains. This is a discovery that was made late yesterday on the sea floor of the "Titan" site within the wreckage.

Crews were seen hoisting several giant pieces of the sub from waters off of the Canadian coast. The Coast Guard officials are saying that U.S. medical professionals will now analyze what search teams have found.

CNN's Paula Newton is in Ottawa where the recovery effort continues.

Paula, what else can you tell us about this? Certainly, this is something that the families will be looking for.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very closely. And of course, hopefully, will offer them solace to know that some remains were found. And obviously this will be handled delicately for the families and for this investigation.

We've had even more news since we saw those debris pieces. So striking, Brianna. They were so large you could match them up with what the submersible looked like.

And for that reason, there is high hopes for this investigation that they will be able to determine exactly what caused this catastrophic implosion.

Also important here is the Transport Safety Board that, in a release last night, indicated that they had the data recorder from the "Polar Prince." You'll remember, Brianna, that that was the mother ship that was essentially tethered for communications to the "Titan."

[13:55:00]

They will now hopefully through interviews and that data recording be able to know the precise moment that they lost communications and possibly why. Was there a clue as to what happened?

And then when we talk more about those debris pieces and the investigation ahead, we can also look to the materials. We all heard about that carbon fiber, is it really a good material for the passenger cabin? And as well be able to test those large elements in laboratory -- in laboratory conditions.

The U.S. Coast Guard now has possession of them. But important here, the Transportation Safety Board here in Canada says that they've already cataloged those items.

Quickly, Brianna, a reminder, still possibly a criminal investigation to come on both sides of the border.

KEILAR: We'll be looking for that.

Paula, thank you, live for us from Ottawa. Boris?

SANCHEZ: We have some breaking news just into CNN. The special counsel is apparently still investigating Donald Trump's handling of classified documents even after the former president was indicted on 37 charges.

Let's get straight to CNN's Katelyn Polantz, who has been tracking the classified document saga as it has been unfolding.

Katelyn, what is the latest?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Boris, multiple sources are now telling me that this Mar-a-Lago documents investigation, it's not over. There is still grand jury activity. That grand jury is empaneled in Miami.

There are still witnesses that the special counsel's office, the people who are prosecuting that case that's already charged against Donald Trump and his co-defendant, Walt Nauta, those prosecutors still have questions, and the investigation is ongoing.

We don't know what this means, but it could mean a lot of different things. It could be just some additional inquiries. That happens sometimes when there's a pretty robust investigation after an indictment. There may be loose ends still to wrap up.

But it also could mean that there may be other charges, potentially other defendants, potentially additional charges that prosecutors still are looking at, and they want to keep investigating, using this grand jury in Miami.

And when you look at that indictment of Donald Trump that we have already, it's a pretty thorough story, but there are lots of questions that remain, especially what happened after June of last year before that FBI search and those documents were found and recovered by the federal government.

So a lot of questions. Keep watching Florida, keep watching the special counsel's office because Donald Trump is headed to trial along with Walt Nauta, both entering pleas of not guilty.

But there still may be legal risks that surrounds them and potentially others in this investigation -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: And, Katelyn, I know you will be on hand to break down all of this.

Several threads investigators are still pursuing in that case, including possible gaps in surveillance tapes and the handling of records at Trump's Bedminster Golf Club in New Jersey.

Katelyn, thanks so much for the reporting. We'll, of course, bring you back to discuss more of it as CNN NEWS CENTRAL continues.

Stay with CNN. We're back in a moment.

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