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Supreme Court Decision On Biden's Student Loan Plan; Key Supreme Court Opinions On Student Loans; Key Supreme Cout Opinions On Student Loans, LGBTQ Rights. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 30, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:43]

SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CENTRAL ANCHOR: Another big decision day a consequential Morning in America. One hour from now, Supreme Court decisions on student loans and a battle between free speech and the LGBTQ rights are expected to drop. The case is promising to be major rulings that will impact the nation.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL ANCHOR: The new plot Ukraine's Intel chief says the Kremlin now has in the works is Russia planning to assassinate the man who led the revolt against Vladimir Putin.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL ANCHOR: Multiple guns materials to make a Molotov cocktail and perhaps Barack Obama's address. That is what a January 6 fugitive had when police arrested him just blocks from the former president's home. I'm John Berman, with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan, and this is CNN News Central.

SIDNER: Decision day Round Two, two consequential cases still outstanding before the Supreme Court breaks for the summer. And next hour, the final rulings. The fate of student loans right now is uncertain as the justices soon decide whether or not President Biden's debt forgiveness program can take effect. The plan would erase up to $20,000 in loan payments for borrowers. And with more than 40 million eligible borrowers in limbo, $400 billion of taxpayer money is on the line. Will the Court block Biden's plan. Plus was a website designer's free speech violated by a law in Colorado? The designer opposes same sex marriage. And if the Court rules in her favor, civil rights groups are worried it could leave the door open for business owners to deny services, not just to same sex couples but even along racial and religious lines.

Let's bring in CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica. Jessica, can you walk us through exactly what the significance of this day is and these cases going forward?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sara and typically the Supreme Court does save its biggest cases until the final day or two we saw affirmative action yesterday, and today, two more big ones. So first, I'll start with student loans. The Supreme Court is deciding unless of course, they dismissed this on a technical ground. They're deciding whether the Biden Administration has this authority to grant student loan debt forgiveness for more than 40 million Americans.

You mentioned, it's a price tag of about $400 billion. Lower Courts have already struck down this program so it has been on hold. But it's possible that this Supreme Court will say the challengers maybe never had the legal right to bring this lawsuit or the court might decide that the administration was within its power to enact the debt relief program where millions of borrowers could have up to $20,000 in debt wiped away.

The tone of the arguments though, for this really was skepticism from the conservative justices. They wondered about the administration's ability to do something like this with such a massive price tag and there were also questions about fairness. Justice Gorsuch in particular, asking how is it fair to have debt wiped away for some when others have already paid.

And then you mentioned that second case that we're waiting for. The case about a wedding website designer in Colorado, who is refusing to make websites for same sex couples. She is basing this on her free speech saying it was violated by a state law that prohibits businesses from discriminating against or refusing to serve same sex couples in particular. So what she's saying is that by being forced to speak, in a sense, she's being forced to speak by making websites for marriages that she disagrees with because of her religion. There was a little bit of question here about her right to sue in this case because she hasn't actually gotten her business up and running yet. She's asking for a ruling before there's really been anyone forcing her to make these websites but it's still a significant case here.

And Sara, the concern from the liberal justices is if the court sides with this website designer, could it open the door to other creative businesses to refuse service to people they don't agree with whether it's on the basis of sexual orientation or religion or race. So there was a lot riding on these two big cases. They come down today, the last day at 10:00 a.m. and a lot riding on it including the fate of those student loans for millions of Americans, Sara.

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SIDNER: There -- there's always the historical record of the Supreme Court and this Court leans conservative. Is there any indication on how these last two big rulings may go?

SCHNEIDER: It's always hard to guess with the Supreme Court. I mean, they were very skeptical of the loan program. So I would guess that if they find standing, they will strike it down. As for the gay rights case, we'll see they did seem inclined to side with the wedding website designer but we'll see at 10:00 a.m.

SIDNER: All right, Jessica Schneider, thank you for being all over this, this week. We appreciate it. Kate.

BOLDUAN: But when it comes to Biden's student loan -- loan program, we're talking about millions of people who could be immediately impacted with what the Court decides today. Forty plus million people are eligible for the program wiping out their student loan debt, some of their student loan debt, about 16 million people have already been approved for the program. CNN's Christine Romans, she has much more on this. And Christine, it really can't be overstated the financial implications of this.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure.

BOLDUAN: I mean, this is a $400 billion program. And it's all been on hold while this has been working his way through the court.

ROMANS: It is a campaign promise that the President wanted to keep and now the Supreme Court gets to decide whether it will happen. We're talking about up to $20,000 of student debt relief, $20,000, if you're a Pell Grant recipient for everybody else, $10,000 for people who make less than $125,000 a year. 26 million people have applied and 16 million have already been approved through the -- through the portal that the Department of Education put up here at a cost of estimated as you said of $400 billion. So what are we talking about here?

We're talking about people's budgets. On average between $210 and $314 a month is what people -- people pay on their student loan payments. And for three years, they've had a pause here. So that money has been in their pocket. It's been paying -- you know, building up their savings and paying down debt. And so that is a -- a significant bill that will come due again here. 43.8 -- about 44 million borrowers overall with about 37, $38,000 is the average balance. But Kate, I think it's interesting.

BOLDUAN: That's a lot --

ROMANS: Half of these people have 20,000 or less. So half of the people who are borrowers do have a manageable debt load here and that's one of the arguments sort of against forgiveness.

BOLDUAN: You've pointed out to me and this is -- this is important, just for the context of what today means when the Court decides this is that no matter how the Court decides today --

ROMANS: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Borrowers are in for a rude awakening no matter what.

ROMANS: Yes, you're going to have to start paying your bills again in October. This -- this timeout, the COVID, timeout on debt payments is over. Those payments begin again in October and interest starts accruing in September. So this -- everyone's got to go back, and you know, we work the -- the budget because student loan payments, no matter what happens today, student loan payment payments resumed soon.

BOLDUAN: But today is going to be so consequential for people immediately, and what their budget is going to look like going forward. Christine, thank you. John.

BERMAN: All right. With us now is CNN legal analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Elliot Williams, Romans and Kate there were just talking about the policy, whether it's good policy or the policy would do. The Supreme Court Justices, in theory shouldn't be focused on that today, they should be focused on whether it's legal policy, and it's kind of a two-step consideration today, Elliot.

ELLIOT WLLIAMNS, FRM. DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DOJ: It's always a two-step consideration, John. So there's something known as standing, which is that the person who was wronged by an action is the one who can sue. For instance, you know, if you and Sara Sidner, having a dispute --

BERMAN: Never

WILLIAMS: I -- never but I can't join a lawsuit on her behalf or sue you just because she's my favorite anchor of CNN News Central. I just can't do that. She has to sue you standing. Well, it works the same way in the Supreme Court, right? And the problem in this matter is that it's not clear who has sitting -- the Supreme Court grappled with this oral argument a little bit, which is that a bunch of states sued the Biden Administration. But the loan service providers, who were actually wrong, were the ones who didn't. So they could make this go away by simply saying, what guys the wrong party sued here.

BERMAN: Yes, Missouri suing saying there are loan services in our state who are wrong here, but the loan services, they're not in it.

WILLIAMS: Right

BERMAN: That's the state doing it on their behalf and the justice could decide not to hear the case. If they decide there is standing --

WILLIAMS: Right.

BERMAN: Then there is a separation of powers argument.

WILLIAMS: Right. So this is a -- a very straightforward congressional statute that says in the time of a national emergency, the Secretary of Education has the authority to amend loan spending or student loan programs, right? So the question was, President Trump declared COVID an emergency and then President Biden years later forgive a lot of student debt. Now the question is, did President Biden go too far beyond just amending loan servicing rules and actually just forgiving student debt? And I think the Justice might -- if they've reached the standing point grapple with that a little bit.

BERMAN: No guarantee it'll get passed standing. We will see what they say if they do. All right. The other case which I find very legally interesting has to do with Colorado whether this wedding website company which by the way hadn't started doing business yet could refuse service for -- for gay weddings. It seems as if the Court wanted to an oral arguments rule on the side of the company. However, if the language they will use in deciding this, that could be truly fascinating because it could open the door to what Elliot?

WILLIAMS: You know, well, this could open the door to in effect discrimination or open questions as to whether someone's discriminating or not. What Colorado Law, again, is also quite clear and says that businesses that are open to the public must make their services available to everyone. This individual, this business said that well, you know, I don't want to service people who have -- gay folks who might I don't agree with.

BERMAN: I -- I don't make a website for a gay wedding.

WILLIAMS: I don't want to make a website for a -- for a gay couple, right. So then the question is, well, is this her free speech rights or is this these people's rights to participate in a free and civil society. And the court struck grapples with this tension all the time, weighing one person's constitutional right to free speech against, you know, the fact that people should not be discriminated against. And that can be a tricky one, if the Court --depending on where the Court goes with it.

BERMAN: Because if they say this person does not have to create the website, could someone down the line and they've dealt with all kinds of hypotheticals here?

WILLIAMS: OK.

BERMAN: Could they say my religion says I don't have to service people of a certain race?

WILLIAMS: My -- my religion says I don't have to service interracial couple. It's my -- because it just makes me uncomfortable. My religion says I don't have to serve, you know, people of a different race or people who are handicapped or whatever else it might be. And so it creates far more -- it could potentially create far more of a gray area that exists now.

BERMAN: One would think the Court will address this in its decision?

WILLIAMS: One would think the Court would but look, the Court often, frankly, even as we saw in the affirmative action case, does often leave questions open to future litigation. So they may resolve some of the issues around this right now but open the door to figuring out the -- the -- around the margins down way.

BERMAN: Elliot Williams, great to see you. I'm sure he'll talk to you again very soon. Sara.

SIDNER: CNN has exclusively learned that a top Russian general with a secret VIP member of the Wagner mercenary group. That same group of course it started a revolt against Putin's regime for live in Moscow with the details. Also a fugitive wanted in the January 6 Capitol attack arrested near the home of former President Obama. We have details on that security threat.

Investigators have zeroed in on efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Sources say, a former Trump campaign official is now talking with the Special Counsel. What does that witness know about the fake elector scheme?

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BOLDUAN: The man who staged a rebellion and pose really the greatest threat to Vladimir Putin in his 23 year grip on power, oh, he could now be facing an assassination plot. That is coming from you from the Ukrainian military intelligence chief today. He claims that the Russian FSB has been charged now with taking out Wagner Yevgeny Prigozhin. CNNs Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv, Ukraine tracking this for us. And Nick, what more are you hearing from this military intelligence chief about this bit -- about this claim?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I mean, this statement is limited from Kyrylo Budanov who is basically tasked with finding out information Russia doesn't want Ukraine to have. But also spreading information at times that would compromise Russia and this may possibly fall into the latter category. We don't know where he received this piece of data from. Ukraine does have good intelligence sources within Russian ranks clearly but he says he's aware that the FSB that's the Russian security services have been tasked with assassinating Yevgeny Prigozhin. And he says whether that's successful or not, we'll see over time.

Now, the mere prospect that this is being raised suggests I think it's fair to say that we really don't know how well they're supposed to deal between Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led an armed rebellion against Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin is indeed going. In fact, one of the key tenants of that deal was that Prigozhin was supposed to go to Belarus and stay there, possibly with his Wagner fighters as well. But a man who's notoriously not publicity shy has not emerged in Belarus. Its president has said he's there. But there have been unconfirmed sightings of him in St. Petersburg, planes affiliated with him have gone Moscow, St. Petersburg, Minsk and back again, so a lot to suggest. But he's certainly not settled in a quiet hotel in Minsk.

But the broader question here is, who knew what, when really. And if the FSB were as some intelligence officials in the West have suggested getting hints of this perhaps ahead of the plot? Why did they not act beforehand if Russian military had an inkling? Why did they not act beforehand? Why potentially, are we seeing this order coming out now? A lot to be answered and all of it undermines Putin's grip on power. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolute -- absolutely and you really pose the key questions that still need to be asked and answered. And it's good to see you, Nick. Thanks for being there. John.

BERMAN: So a CNN exclusive this morning. Documents show a Russian general who has not been seen in public since the insurrection, since the revolt was a secret VIP member of Wagner. Russian General Sergei Surovikin and he's not the only one. In documents obtained by the Russian investigative dossier center, there seemed to be at least 30 other names on this list.

CNN's as Matthew Chance in Moscow this morning. Moth -- Matthew, this is -- this is quite a stunning report.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, it's a stunning revelation and it sort of talks to the kind of issue that Nick was -- was mentioning there in that report from Kyiv, where he was saying, basically what was it that led the Russian military to allow this mercenary, Wagner group, to take over a Russian city for instance, with such ease. And there are questions in Moscow circulating in the Kremlin about the possibility of divided loyalties. Well, this revelation, these documents speak directly to that, because it seems that, you know, General Surovikin, who's the Deputy Commander, remember of Ukrainian forces, in -- sorry, of Russian forces in Ukraine appears to have been since 2018, a VIP Wagner member.

[09:20:26]

And as you mentioned, he is not alone. There are 30 other senior Russian military and intelligence officials that have also been found to be on this list by the dossier center, which is a Russian investigative group. And, you know, we don't know what VIP membership means for Wagner, whether it means payments, or they're on the payroll or there any financial benefits or anything like that. We haven't seen any evidence pertaining to that. But it does imply an overly close relationship between the Russian military and these Wagner mercenaries that were allowed, as I said, to stage his military uprising with virtually without a shot virtually being -- being fired. And so that's something that is I expect being looked at very closely now by investigators associated with the Kremlin.

BERMAN: Yes, that implication of some kind of a tie, honestly, have huge ramifications. So Matthew Chance, thank you so much for being with us this morning. Sara.

SIDNER: In less than an hour, the Supreme Court will make significant decisions promising to have a major impact on society. We are waiting on two major decisions. But first, the fallout from the Court's decision to gut affirmative action. President Biden is weighing in saying the Supreme Court decision on affirmative action cannot be the last word.

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[09:26:07]

SIDNER: In about 30 minutes, we expect the Supreme Court to release their rulings in two major cases that will impact millions of Americans. One will decide the fate of President Biden's student loan forgiveness -- forgiveness program, the other is a battle between free speech and LGBTQ rights that could have far reaching consequences. Just 24 hours ago, the Court gutted affirmative action. And we now know the Biden Administration has been preparing for this possibility for months. Here's what the President said after he learned the Court's decision.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We cannot let this decision be the last word. While Court can render a decision, it cannot change what America stands for. We need a new path forward, a path consistent with a law that protects diversity and expands opportunity. What I propose for consideration is a new standard where colleges take into account the adversity a student has overcome when selecting among qualified applicants. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz joins us now from the Whitehouse this morning. Can you give us some sense of what the administration was doing behind the scenes as this was coming down? And what they're going to do going forward?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sara, well, officials have been clear that there can't be just one sweeping action from President Biden that would reverse the decision from the Supreme Court yesterday on affirmative action. But the President did make clear to his senior staff that he wanted to come up with some ideas to try to ensure that there is diversity in higher education.

Now for months, the President's team has been working behind the scenes that includes the Whitehouse Counsel's office, the Office of Public Engagement and the Domestic Policy Council to come up with some options in the event that the Supreme Court ruled in the way that they did. They talked about the possibility of executive actions and also met with civil rights groups, education groups to try to feel out, and hear what they thought other alternative actions could be and what their concerns would be moving forward, as well. Ultimately, for the time being that they have landed on the Education Department issuing guidance to colleges and universities to try to ensure diversity in their student body. They're also planning on holding this summit in the coming months with students and also educational leaders to talk about affirmative action as President Biden; he made clear in those remarks that this cannot be the last fight when it comes to the issue of affirmative action.

But in addition to this case from yesterday, the Whitehouse is also bracing for a huge decision from the Supreme Court today on the fate of President Biden's student loan program. You'll remember he rolled that out last summer trying to make good on a campaign promise. And this is a program that could affect roughly 40 million student borrowers. Now, behind the scenes, the Whitehouse has been preparing for various scenarios over the course of the past few months. That includes coming up with contingency plans, some possible different policy outcomes that they could relate to people if the Supreme Court were to strike this down. If the Supreme Court lets it stand, the administration's attention would turn to trying to get that debt relief out to student borrowers as quickly as possible. All eyes will be on the next half hour when the Whitehouse will get a huge answer to whether the President's student loan program will be able to go forward as they had hoped.

SIGNER: Yes, some 40 million people could be affected by this. So I'm sure they are watching. Thank you so much Arlette Saenz for all of that. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us the Coast Guard's secret and investigation into alleged sexual abuse at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy, revealing a dark history. What's more, as leaders kept the findings quiet for years. That's CNN exclusive. We have that ahead.

And a man with guns and explosive material arrested in former President Obama's neighborhood but law enforcement are saying today about what he wanted to do and how he's connected to January 6. We'll be right back.