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Supreme Court Says Christian Web Designer Can Refuse To Create Web Sites For Same-Sex Weddings; Kristen Waggoner, Attorney For Web Site Designer, Discusses Their Side Of The Case; Damning Investigation Of Rapes, Sexual Assaults At Coast Guard Academy Kept Hidden For Years; Supreme Court Blocks Biden's Student Loan Forgiveness, Limits LGBTQ Protections In Final Day Of Opinions. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired June 30, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Your client believes that marriage should remain between a man and a woman. There are creators out there who believe that marriage should remain between people of the same race.
Would you argue on behalf of folks who do not believe in interracial marriage, because it is their point of view of the world?
KRISTEN WAGGONER, ATTORNEY FOR WEB SITE DESIGNER LORIE SMITH: I would not argue on their behalf. And that's a reprehensible view.
I think what is important here to remember, though, is that's not the facts of the case the court decided today.
The court said, if it is clear that a speaker is distinguishing on the basis of a message they're being asked to create, that they can't be compelled by the government to express a message. And the government can't ruin them because they dislike the message.
These laws right now, in some states, they actually impose jail time if you decline to express a message that violates your conscience.
SANCHEZ: So what would you say to folks who feel marginalized by the decision, saying the message put forward by folks who oppose the right of same-sex couples to marry is reprehensible?
WAGGONER: I would say that they have the right, thanks to this decision, to enter the public square and give voice to that view and to persuade their neighbor, to test ideas, to explore truth, to advance social progress.
All of that is because, if we want to have that right for ourselves, we have to protect it for those who disagree with us. That's how we have social progress.
SANCHEZ: So you mention that this is part of a campaign to protect freedom of speech. Obviously, you tried a case previously before the Supreme Court in the Masterpiece Bakery case.
What is next? What do you have your sights on next?
WAGGONER: Well, we are an organization that protects free speech for everyone and religious freedom for everyone. We are going to ensure that this decision applies and the other cases where, truly, artists, photographers are facing jail time.
But also, again, standing for the rights of people of all faiths and no faith at all, that we can all enter the public square and protect the rights of our neighbors and ourselves, to be able to engage in robust debate.
SANCHEZ: Kristen Waggoner, I have a dozen more questions for you. Unfortunately, we have to leave it there.
We appreciate your time and sharing your perspective with us.
WAGGONER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Of course.
Jim?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Still to come, a secret investigation into the Coast Guard Academy revealed years of sexual assault coverups there. We'll have more on CNN's exclusive reporting coming up.
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[14:36:43]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now to a CNN exclusive. The Coast Guard has been hiding a damning investigation and report about sexual assaults at its academy for years, until CNN recently uncovered it.
CNN chief investigative correspondent, Pamela Brown, is with us now on this incredibly important investigation.
Tell us what's in this report.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: So, Brianna, it's called Operation Fouled Anchor. It was an investigation into sexual assaults at the Coast Guard Academy, which uncovered a history of substantiated rapes and assaults that were ignored or covered up by high-ranking officials.
And you never heard of it because no one ever say the report, even though it was completed a few years ago. The findings were kept secret by the Coast Guard's top leadership.
And get this, after all this time, the Coast Guard finally came clean and reported it to Congress this month, only after CNN's investigative team asked about it.
The report found dozens of cases of alleged sexual assault at the Coast Guard Academy, even though they only looked from 1988 to 2006. Here are some more highlights that's in the report, Operation Fouled
Anchor. It said that "there was a disturbing pattern of not treating reported sexual assaults as criminal matters, even in cases where there was overwhelming evidence."
Leadership was more concerned at the time about Coast Guard Academy reputation than about the victims of crimes who were members of service.
The suspects and sometimes the victims were simply disenrolled from the academy with no investigation at all.
And, Brianna, if there were punishments, I mean, they were laughable. Extra homework, lower class standings, even those pushed out of the academy were sometimes able to serve in the military.
KEILAR: Unbelievable. They bury it for years, five years, and as you said, finally reporting it to Congress just this week, after you've asked for comment, which is not a very good look, I will say, for the Coast Guard in this case.
BROWN: By the way, right before a holiday weekend.
KEILAR: Very much so.
So the report, of course, talks about the past, but you talked with a woman who was a more recent cadet at the Coast Guard Academy.
BROWN: Yes, that's right. I sat down with this young woman. She just got her diploma last year. She says the culture hasn't changed. She was sexually assaulted as a cadet multiple times.
She asked us to hide her identity, to tell us what happened to her. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was sexually assaulted three times. The first by a superior. The second time by somebody I considered a dear friend. And a third by an international cadet.
It was completely toxic and devastating to my sense of self. And left lifelong damages to my physical, mental health.
The Coast Guard Academy employs, reinforces and cultivates a system that thrives on the trauma and pain of women and minorities. It's designed for their failure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The Coast Guard investigated one of her assaults but said there wasn't enough evidence -- Brianna?
KEILAR: And is the Coast Guard saying anything about this larger investigation Operation Fouled Anchor? BROWN: So CNN repeatedly reached out, Brianna, to the Coast Guard for
answers to our detailed questions. Instead of responding to our detailed questions, the Coast Guard went to Congress to fess up about this report they had buried for several years.
[14:40:07]
They did send CNN a statement saying, in part, they're "dedicated to addressing the needs of survivors and holding defenders accountable."
We'll have much more about this on CNN.com with my incredible colleagues from the investigative team who have been working so hard on this.
KEILAR: It is really an incredible investigation. And it is so important. These are the things that the military needs to face, right, if they're going to be attracting recruits as they so desperately want to do right now.
BROWN: You have to wonder, had they implemented changes as a result of this report, would the young woman I sat down with, would she have experienced what she had?
KEILAR: She certainly would have had a better shot, you can argue that.
BROWN: Yes.
KEILAR: Pamela Brown, thank you for this.
Jim?
SCIUTTO: In a blistering dissent, Justice Elena Kagan sharply criticized the conservative majority's rulings, accusing them of substituting themselves, quote, "for Congress and the executive branch." More on the political battles decided in the Supreme Court and all the effects of these decisions coming up.
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[14:45:29]
SCIUTTO: Over the last year, the Supreme Court's conservative supermajority has overturned decisions that have guided this country for decades.
Last year's ruling on abortion and now this week's decisions on affirmative action in college admissions, limiting LGBTQ-plus rights, dramatically changing how America is governed.
CNN senior Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic, is here now to discuss.
Big picture, what do you make of these conservative legal victories? It strikes me that the justices from the conservative majority, they feel empowered here to overturn a series of decisions that they know will have an enormous effect on this country and for millions of Americans.
JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Jim, they definitely are empowered. The difference between a 5-4 court we had for many, many decades and a 6-3 court that we have now is so much more than a single vote. They do feel more empowered.
You named several cases from last year and this term, but there have been others. Restricting the Environmental Protection Agency's power.
Last year, around this time, it was similar to the themes we saw in the student loan forgiveness case today. Remember, last year, they also enhanced Second Amendment gun rights, another favorite of conservative interests.
So in case after case, we are seeing an empowered court rolling back precedent.
You used -- you referred to the affirmative action case. The affirmative action case this week really undercut two major landmarks, 1978 and the 2003 University of Michigan case that reinforced the idea that admissions officials can look at race as one factor.
SCIUTTO: Right. I watched the confirmation hearings for all these justices. They were all asked the automatic question about stare decisis, as it's known.
In effect, will you, as the justice of the Supreme Court, respect precedent in, in many of these cases, it was repeated precedent. It wasn't just one decision --
BISKUPIC: Right.
SCIUTTO: but it was cases backing up decisions, for instance, Roe v. Wade.
BISKUPIC. Yes. Yes.
SCIUTTO: Were they lying or misleading --
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Is precedent dead?
BISKUPIC: No, precedent is not dead because it is a principle of the court. But they were asked the automatic question, then they gave an automatic answer.
If you go back and look at what, for example, Brett Kavanaugh has said on abortion rights, or I went back and looked at what Chief Justice John Roberts had said about affirmative action, because he had been asked that during his confirmation hearings, and they always skate around the issue.
Talk about how they have regard for precedent, but they're not going to take it on. A, they might get confirmed, and, B, they don't want to lay down markers for future cases. SCIUTTO: Like the Roberts thing about balls and strikes, you know.
BISKUPIC: Right.
SCIUTTO: But they are changing. They know they're changing.
I wonder, when you look at the collection of the decisions here on abortion, on LGBTQ, on gun rights, on the functioning of the EPA, those aren't political issues, right? Have they made the case as a matter of law?
BISKUPIC: Well, it's in the eye of the beholder.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BISKUPIC: They think they've made the cases as a matter of law. But earlier in your intro, Jim, you referred to Elena Kagan's dissent. I was in the courtroom today when she dissented from the chief's decision on the student loan forgiveness.
She said, you're reading the statute only in your own terms. You're trying to amass power to the majority, to this court, and you're not interpreting it the way Congress had written it.
Essentially, you're undercutting Congress' power, you're undercutting the executive branch's power, and the person who wins there, or the group of people who win there is the supermajority you're referring to now.
SCIUTTO: It is a consistency issue because, as they've often said, well, this is for Congress. Here, you're ignoring Congress, but it's a longer discussion.
Joan Biskupic, thank you. You break it down so it is easy to understand.
Boris?
[14:50:28]
SANCHEZ: Another big headline today. Sources telling CNN that a former Trump campaign official is now cooperating with the special counsel in its investigation into 2020 election interference. The details on that straight ahead.
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SANCHEZ: We're learning new details about the federal investigations against former President Donald Trump. Sources tell CNN a former Trump campaign official is now cooperating with Jack Smith's special counsel investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
I want to bring in CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid.
Paula, we're learning that a campaign official has reached an agreement with Jack Smith to cooperate in the investigation, and that's Mike Roman.
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. Mike reached an agreement to sit down with investigators, share some of what he knows with the expectation he will not be prosecuted for anything that he shares.
So he's not going to have to go before the grand jury at this point. But he does have to answer questions specifically about the so-called fake electors plot, right, this effort to put forth a fake slate of electors to help overturn the election in favor of former President Trump.
And we know from our reporting this has really been a focus lately for investigators. And this is just part of a flurry of activity. You have this interview.
[14:55:06]
You also have Rudy Giuliani sitting down with investigators. A real uptick we're seeing, which suggests charges could be coming.
SANCHEZ: And that's just in the effort to overturn the 2020 election.
REID: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: We also have the classified documents probe where another Trump campaign official has been speaking to investigators.
REID: That's right. One of the striking aspects of the indictment of former President Trump was an allegation that a representative from his Political Action Committee, that he had shown a map to this representative.
And that was striking not only because he was sharing classified information but this would have been someone in his inner circle.
And it raised questions about whether this person may have given information to his investigators.
Now Susie Wilds is one of his closest aides. She's effectively running his third run for the White House.
And we've learned that she was that PAC representative, but what we don't know is whether she shared this information with investigators. We know she was interviewed multiple times. We know she was asked about this.
But at this point, it's unclear if investigators believe this occurred because of what she said or through some other evidence.
SANCHEZ: We've just been talking about the special counsel's probe. The former president and current front-runner in the Republican race for the president, he's got some other cases looming.
REID: He sure does, as you can see here. He's already been indicted by the Manhattan district attorney, the hush money scheme. We've seen one special counsel indictment so far.
It's unclear on the January 6th side of the special counsel probe if former President Trump will face charges. He could be an unindicted coconspirator. It's just not clear.
We know a lot of questions being asked of witnesses about him, what he was doing on January 6th, in the days leading up to January 6th and after. Unclear if he'll be charged.
But we're also awaiting a decision in Georgia. It does appear possible he'll be charged, but we'll wait for Fani Willis to make the announcement.
SANCHEZ: And these are just the criminal case. They don't mention the civil matters --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: -- like E. Jean Carroll --
(CROSSTALK)
REID: I would be here all day.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: We appreciate you joining us for the time you were here. Thank you so much.
Brianna?
KEILAR: So we are keeping an eye on the White House. President Biden will soon address today's major Supreme Court rulings. We'll be bringing that to you as soon as it happens. Stay with us.
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