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Biden to Announce New Actions on Student Debt; State Department Report Details Damning Failings Around Chaotic Afghanistan Withdrawal; Court Says Christian Web Designer Can Refuse to Create Websites for Same-Sex Weddings; France Braces for Fourth Night of Protests. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 30, 2023 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And a lot of these (INAUDIBLE) don't' understand it.

Let's talk about the law. This case opens the door to more -- reigning in of that so-called administrative state as it was put in the majority opinion here. What other programs do you see as the precedent here, right, the standard set in this ruling to effect? Are we talking about potentially Medicare, Social Security? What do you think?

TIM GRIFFIN, (R) ARKANSAW AG, OPPOSES BIDEN STUDENT LOAN PLAN: Well, look, we have a number of lawsuits against the administration that relate to executive orders, that relate to regulations coming out of the different agencies. And I'm not going to comment specifically on them, but you make a good point. This does continue to draw a clear line reining in the administrative state -- which I will say. As someone who was a member of Congress, who worked in the executive branch in Washington, who's held these different roles, the administrative state has been way out of control for a long time. And they've been acting in an extra constitutional way.

And look, the stuff they do can be done. But it must be done by the elected officials in the United States Congress. The fact they won't do it is not a good legal reason to do it on your own. We saw this when I was a member of Congress with President Obama. There were a number of instances where his lawyers had said in the past, we can't do this legally. But when they were thwarted in the Congress they said, well, let's try it anyway. That is corrosive to the rule of law.

And if people want to apply pressure to their elected representatives to get "A," "B," "C" or "D" passed, go do it. There's a proper process. Process matters. We saw this with some of the mask rules. We've seen it with OSHA, so I'm all for that discussion, but we're doing a disservice --

KEILAR: Your point taken.

GRIFFIN: -- can't (INAUDIBLE).

KEILAR: No, there is a policy discussion, there's a legal discussion. I will say it is a bipartisan practice of seeing how far that executive authority goes, which I know that you are certainly well aware of from your time in Washington. Attorney General Tim Griffin, thank you for being with us. We appreciate it.

GRIFFIN: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: We are waiting to hear from the president any moment now on the Supreme Court's decision to block that loan forgiveness program and also limit LBGTQ rights. We're going to bring you that live.

And the State Department just released a damning report about President Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan back in 2021. New details about what led specifically to the death of those 13 U.S. service members.

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[15:35:00]

SCIUTTO: This just in and it's notable. The State Department has released a report on its investigation into the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan and the findings are damning. It's a 28-point report here. Our Kylie Atwood has been going through it. And Kylie, few things stand out to me and I'm sure several stand out to you.

One, from the very first point, insufficient senior level consideration of worst-case scenarios. It notes that some officials questioned the decision making leading up to this. It notes handing over Bagram Air Base basically funneled everybody trying to leave the country to the Hamid Karzai International Airport, listing throughout a number of failures in the preparation.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a really damning report, Jim. And I think it's important to note to folks that it covered the time period of January of 2020 -- when President Trump was in office and there was that agreement struck between the U.S. and the Taliban which really paved the way for the United States to prepare withdrawing from the country and covers through August 2021. Which is when the Biden administration was carrying out the actual withdrawal itself.

And there is, as you actually noted that one finding that is at the top of these findings that I that really crystallizes what the report gets into.

And it says, quote, that there were decisions beyond the scope of this review, but the team found during both administrations, the Biden administration and the Trump administration, there was insufficient senior level consideration of worst-case scenarios and how quickly those might follow.

Now what's clear as you read through this report, is that there wasn't great organization or delineation of responsibility in this building at the State Department. One of the things that they point out is that there wasn't someone on the seventh floor here in the building dealing with crisis management for this. And the seventh floor is where the Secretary of State sits.

[15:40:00]

There also wasn't a task force that was set up early enough to bring folks to the table to discuss what could be these crisis scenarios that they would face as they were preparing for the withdrawal. And when you have the Pentagon saying for that non-combatant evacuation operation, there wasn't a person at the State Department who was coordinating with that Pentagon effort. And so, that created confusion as well according to this report.

So there's quite a few things the department didn't do that this report really gets into that are significant. And it also makes recommendations for how this department can better prepare for crises going forward. Like getting the operation center here at the department up and running fully staffed, so it can really be the central focal point for where that crisis management lies.

KEILAR: What does it say if anything, Kylie, about the Abbey-Gate attack. In the final days, of course, there were 13 U.S. service members -- and let's not forget 170 Afghans who were there waiting trying to escape and they were killed in that terrorist attack at the airport.

ATWOOD: What the report says is that situation displays how dangerous the situation actually was on the ground. What it doesn't do is dig into any decisions that were made in this department that could have potentially prevented that terrorist attack, as you say, killing 13 American service members and more than 150 Afghans. Anything that this department could have done to prevent that from occurring.

I think you'll hear folks in this building probably point the finger at the intelligence community or at the Department of Defense regarding decision making surrounding that. But it does paint the picture of a very, very tenuous situation at the airport, which of course created that environment that allowed that ISIS attack to actually happen.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We also should note the timing of the release of this report is significant. It's a Friday afternoon before a long holiday weekend. Kiley, what are your sources in the State Department saying about the findings of this report?

ATWOOD: Well, listen, this is something that I've pressed State Department officials on when we had a call on this earlier today. Because, you know, it's lost on no one. That this report not only is rolled out on a Friday before a holiday weekend, but it's also being rolled out more than a year after the report itself was concluded.

So they've, you know, waited more than a year to roll out these findings. They're waiting until the Friday before Fourth of July. What the senior State Department official said on that call is that they weren't going to get into process-related questions. But clearly folks in this building see that timing and they're concerned about them trying to, you know, really hide the fact that the department doesn't want all of its failures with this withdrawal really dragged through Washington and setup at a moment when Congress is in session, they might face more criticism.

SCIUTTO: We should also note that SIV -- special immigrant visas -- has been a key issue. And by the way, a continuing one because there are many thousands of Afghans who served bravely along the side of U.S. forces who are still there. I've been in touch with some of them. It addresses that here. It says that there was a backlog prior. That they've done -- made an effort to accelerate the process. But the fact is here we are two years later and there's still many people left behind.

KEILAR: Many.

SANCHEZ: It is still an ongoing issue. Kiley Atwood, thank you so much for walking us through the details of this scathing report.

Stay with CNN, because we're standing by for the president to speak from the White House at any moment after two major decisions from the Supreme Court today. One of them overturning his effort to forgive student loans. We're going to bring you his remarks live.

[15:45:00]

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KEILAR: We are following huge ripples coming from these two major Supreme Court decisions released today. In one of those rulings the court sided with a Colorado website designer who is a Christian, who didn't want to work with same-sex couples. This is a decision that effectively limits LBGTQ rights. And Democratic Governor Jared Polis -- who himself is gay -- called it misguided.

He went onto say in a statement, quote, these rulings run counter to Colorado values and we'll continue to fight against bigotry and discrimination in all their ugly forms.

Joining us now CNN senior political correspondent Abby Phillip. Okay, now that the court has made this ruling here and we're looking to the future, where does anti-discrimination legislation go from here?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think this is going to be the big question. Because the court in this ruling has now opened the door to people in all kinds of lines of work that could be seen as expressive or creative potentially saying to prospective clients, my beliefs do not align with yours and I do not want to endorse your beliefs by expressing myself in a way that will provide you with service. Where does that end, right? Are we talking about wedding deejays or are we talking about people who might be making invitations for people who are having a same sex marriage? I think these are really big questions that are not just for Colorado, not just in this case of a web designer, but for states all across the country that have these antidiscrimination laws designed to afford LBGTQ individuals the same access to goods and services as everyone else.

[15:50:04]

And that's really at the heart of this decision here. And at 4:00 on "THE LEAD" we're going to be talking to the Colorado Attorney General, Phil Weiser, about this very issue. And find out how they might be thinking about adjusting Colorado's existing law to try to accommodate this ruling from the Supreme Court.

KEILAR: As you're looking at this, does it make it more clear where that line is between product and speech, or does it raise more questions about where that line is?

PHILLIP: I do think it raises more questions. Because the way that they crafted this definition of this web designer's speech, she's making up a spoke website that would in describing the union between these same-sex couples be a tacit endorsement of same-sex marriage. I think that that is really kind of splitting hairs, one would argue.

And there are all kinds of things that same-sex couples -- or let's say call it interracial couples. I mean, if you're an interracial couple and someone's religious beliefs don't align with interracial marriage, could that person discriminate against an interracial couple? I think it raises -- those are questions that do not close the door to more litigation. In fact, I think this opens the door to the flood gates here. And the groups that bring these cases in some ways that's what they're going for. They want to reopen these questions in public life so that the court, a very conservative court, can relitigate them.

KEILAR: Yes, the lawyer of the website designer was on earlier talking to Boris, and she said that's a reprehensible view of someone objecting, but that's not the point here.

PHILLIP: She may think that's a reprehensible view, but if you just super impose that upon this ruling, if someone were to say that is my religious belief, and this is a form of speech, I don't see how the court does not respect that under the way this ruling is written.

KEILAR: Such an interesting point. Abby Phillip, thank you so much. And much more on today's Supreme Court decision of course ahead with you on "THE LEAD" at the top of the hour. Will be watching for that.

And for our viewers stay with us, President Biden is going to be speaking any moment. Obviously a very busy day with these court decisions. He's going to be addressing the cameras from the White House on all of this. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

[15:55:00]

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SANCHEZ: France is now bracing for a fourth night of violent protests across the country. All large-scale events have been banned today in response to three nights of growing unrest over the shooting death of a 17-year-old boy by police on Tuesday. Nearly 900 people were arrested during the protest last night alone. Vehicles were set on fire. Some businesses were looted as well. Public transportation right now, including buses and tramways, have been shutdown. Let's take you to the streets of Paris now with CNN's Melissa Bell. Melissa, what are you seeing there?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, what we've seen the last couple of nights, last night we're seeing again tonight is that violence, that unrest there. We've seen really on the periphery of France's big cities in the suburbs move to the centers. This is because left-wing called these police and the justice for some protesters who'd come here to make their anger known.

And this large police presence is what you're going to see all over the streets of France tonight. It is 45,000 police men and women that have been deployed, 5,000 more than last night. And what the interior minister has announced is that they're deploying armored vehicles, helicopters, mobile units to try to get to the end of this violence.

From the point of view of the protesters, there is no sign of that happening anytime soon. In fact, Boris, tomorrow will be held this funeral for the young 17-year-old who was killed by a policeman Tuesday morning. That is expected to attract large crowds and there will be protests tomorrow in the very heart of Paris on the Champs- Elysees. Again, to show that people are angry. First of all that the events of Tuesday morning the police brutality that they believe has been a long-standing issue and not sufficiently addressed. But also the questions of the systemic racism that many in this country believe have underpinned those kinds of incidents over the last few years.

So from the point of view of the government very heavy-handed tactics determined to get to the bottom of this. Even though the Elysees says there is no need for a state of emergency yet. They're really pulling out everything they can to try and restore order. For the time being though, Boris, there is no sense of the anger letting up at all.

SANCHEZ: There are some very powerful pictures that we are showing as you were sharing an update from there. Melissa Bell in Paris, thank you so much for the reporting.

KEILAR: And we are waiting right now to hear from the president. Obviously, a key day when the comes to these two Supreme Court decisions. But in particular to the president, he's going to be announcing new actions on student debt. His student loan forgiveness program eviscerated by the Supreme Court.

And a statement out from the White House from the president where he's saying, I believe that the court's decision to strike down our student debt relief plan is wrong. But I will stop at nothing to find other ways to deliver relief to hardworking middle-class families. My administration will continue to work to bring the promise of higher education to every American. For now though, this is going to cost many millions of people as they were hoping that it wouldn't, and that's going to have big political implications for this coming year.

SCIUTTO: It's not clear he really has the ability to replace the effect of what this broader loan forgiveness program would have been able to accomplish. So it'll be interesting to watch what he lays out here.

[16:00:00]

SANCHEZ: Yes, as we take a look at the Roosevelt room, a live picture of the podium at the White House right now. And we have to acknowledge this is a presidency that's now faced several actions by the Supreme Court that are directly and diametrically opposed with the president's world views. So will this be one of multiple avenues that his party has to forward his agenda in the next election as they did with Roe versus Wade and the overturning of that last year?

KEILAR: Yes, and we will be looking for that as we wait on the president. "THE LEAD" starts right now.